Renegade question

[SharkusMaximus]

Okay, so I have a bit of a strange question about Renegade (with a little story to go with it!).


I remember playing this back in the day with my Konix Speedking jammed between the end of my 464 and the raised edge of my computer desk (obviously not ideal given that the Speedking was designed to be handheld, but you have to work with what you've got). The reason for this awkward state of affairs is because Renegade supports joystick control but doesn't let you use the buttons. It's either all keyboard or joystick plus keyboard.


So, my question is why on earth was such a control scheme adopted? Is there some technical reason behind this seemingly baffling idea? It's not something that bothered me at the time but now it just seems bizarre. Also, are there other games which took this approach?

[sigh]

Okay, so I have a bit of a strange question about Renegade (with a little story to go with it!).


I remember playing this back in the day with my Konix Speedking jammed between the end of my 464 and the raised edge of my computer desk (obviously not ideal given that the Speedking was designed to be handheld, but you have to work with what you've got). The reason for this awkward state of affairs is because Renegade supports joystick control but doesn't let you use the buttons. It's either all keyboard or joystick plus keyboard.


So, my question is why on earth was such a control scheme adopted? Is there some technical reason behind this seemingly baffling idea? It's not something that bothered me at the time but now it just seems bizarre. Also, are there other games which took this approach?

The control system is more a less a copy of the arcade game. Joystick controls for movement and the 3 button for attacking and jumping. I think that they were trying to simulate the arcade experience as much as possible. In Target Renegade, they used joystick directions + fire button to produce those moves instead.

[SharkusMaximus]

That certainly makes sense. I can't think of another reason as it certainly renders the experience more awkward than it might have been. Thanks for clearing that up!

[Gryzor]

Never used the joystick unless I had no choice so I never tried it that way, but... really, Renegade only had the stick working and not the button? Am I reading this correctly?

[andycadley]

Developers were often having to find ways around the fact joysticks tended to have only one button (because of limitations of the original Atari) as arcades moved on to more complex control layouts.


Just using the keyboard was a bit of a cope out solution though.

[Axelay]

Not sure I'd call using the keyboard a cop out in this instance.  Personally I found the joystick & 3 keys setup in Renegade preferable to the clunky 1 button joystick hack jobs in other similar games.  Sure it took a little acclimatizing and required a joystick able to stick to the table, but for me it was clearly providing more precise control than the usual alternative.

[TotO]

Today an alternative keys-hack will be to use cursors to move and something like QSD or ZXC as fire buttons.

[SharkusMaximus]

@Gryzor You are indeed reading this correctly! Direct from the manual: The game is controlled by keyboard or joystick plus keyboard (fire button is not used).

[SkulleateR]

Hmmm, this is loooong ago but wasn´t there a kind of "hacked" version ? I´m pretty sure I played Renegade with Joystick.
This worked like this : without fire -> movement ! With fire button keeping pressed -> punches and kicks while using the directions of the joystick
Sadly some of my old disks allready died, so I cannot look after it 

[TotO]

Hmmm, this is loooong ago but wasn´t there a kind of "hacked" version ? I´m pretty sure I played Renegade with Joystick.
This worked like this : without fire -> movement ! With fire button keeping pressed -> punches and kicks while using the directions of the joystick
Sadly some of my old disks allready died, so I cannot look after it 

Renagade use 3 buttons to:
A = Kick left
C = Kick right
B = Jump
B + A = Jump-kick left
B + C = Jump-kick right

So, it is tricky to do all with only one fire button and directions, but possible:
A + Left = Kick keft
A + Right = Kick right
A = Jump
A + Up Left = Jump-kick left
A + Up Right = Jump-kick right

I have never seen a hacked version doing that.

[Gryzor]

These are perfectly fine combos, actually...

[Shaun M. Neary]

Renegade wasn't the only game to do it. Breakthru also did it to simulate the arcade feel.

In fact, I think Breakthru pre-dates Renegade.

[Carnivius]

Having to use keys with joystick was main reason I've never been fond of Renegade on CPC. I hate that control scheme. I just want it all the joystick.

[Shaun M. Neary]

Having to use keys with joystick was main reason I've never been fond of Renegade on CPC. I hate that control scheme. I just want it all the joystick.

I actually found it more accurate. Target Renegade's controls are often hit and miss. Sometimes up and fire doesn't always do a jump kick, or the side and fire doesn't always do a back kick. And there's no margin for error once you get from level 4 onwards with TR.

But it's horses for courses. What works for one won't work for someone else. And that's okay. 

[TotO]

Having to use keys with joystick was main reason I've never been fond of Renegade on CPC. I hate that control scheme. I just want it all the joystick.

This game was a great arcade port and thanks, controls was not wasted with one fire button.
It was just great to play using three fire buttons like the arcade machine.

[Carnivius]

Cool.  I hated it.  Never liked having to use two separate devices to control a game.  Nope, not even mouse/keyboard for PC games.  I didn't mind if I had to tap space bar for a smart bomb or something once in a while but to have movement all on the joystick and three keys to hit for any attack just makes the game annoying to me despite the actual nice work gone into the game itself.  Useless for any handheld joystick too.

[Shaun M. Neary]

Cool.  I hated it.  Never liked having to use two separate devices to control a game.  Nope, not even mouse/keyboard for PC games.  I didn't mind if I had to tap space bar for a smart bomb or something once in a while but to have movement all on the joystick and three keys to hit for any attack just makes the game annoying to me despite the actual nice work gone into the game itself.  Useless for any handheld joystick too.

Heheh that's what the rubber suckers on the joystick was for.
It could also be played on keys using ADW and Space for direction too if I recall.

[kawickboy]

Kishimoto who create Kunio for Technos (Renegade in Japan) and later Double Dragon 1&2 used a similar way for DD2 coin op controls.