Everything looks better in scanlines!

[mr_lou]

Alright.
Took Radzone screenshot from CPC.power.com
http://cpc-power.com/extra_lire_fichier.php?extra=cpcold&fiche=1747&slot=2&part=A&type=.png

Cut to 240p, scaled up to 720p, added scanlines overlay with and without blur.

What do you think?

[dodogildo]

Scanlines added version is great. But keep it without the blurs or with veeery few blur..

[TotO]

The problem is that filter don't match with the CTM matrix.
It is just a mind view about "how it should be" if the display was perfect. (the blur effect is wrong too)

[Gryzor]

The blur effect is way too much, not something CPC users are accustomed to. The clean version is not really CPCish either, as the vertical lines are far too much pronounced...

[mr_lou]

The problem is that filter don't match with the CTM matrix.
It is just a mind view about "how it should be" if the display was perfect. (the blur effect is wrong too)

The blur effect is way too much, not something CPC users are accustomed to. The clean version is not really CPCish either, as the vertical lines are far too much pronounced...

Yea, none of those are CPC'ish. But neither is the Framemeister version.

Surely it must be possible for a graphics artist here to create an overlay that is closer though?

I'm thinking the approach above is the right one. The overlay "just" needs to be adjusted. I.e. change the transparency of the various bits.
There must be some combination that results in a much more CPC'ish look?

[Gryzor]

I remember there was actually a Photoshop plugin to create scanlines, I had used it at some point and it was really versatile!

[ukmarkh]

Looking at a CPC game through an Amstrad monitor beats everything imho. 

[mr_lou]

Looking at a CPC game through an Amstrad monitor beats everything imho.

I agree, but this is for a blu-ray project, and an Amstrad monitor can't display a blu-ray disc. 

[ukmarkh]

Won't Hi-Def just show up all the things we don't wanna see, regardless of the filter?

[Gryzor]

True, but even low-res material on a big, high-res screen will look similarly shite.

[ukmarkh]

So why bother?

[mr_lou]

Won't Hi-Def just show up all the things we don't wanna see, regardless of the filter?

I think it's possible to create an acceptable image on a 720p screen, using a mix of the right blur and the right overlay image.

Displaying a CPC image on a modern 720p screen will look like described in the tutorial linked to in the first post of this thread.

Adding a bit of blur and overlay will at least give a picture that matches an Amstrad CPC monitor better. Not perfect of course, but at least closer to how we remember it.

It's "just" a matter of creating this overlay.

[||C|-|E||]

Alright.
Took Radzone screenshot from CPC.power.com
http://cpc-power.com/extra_lire_fichier.php?extra=cpcold&fiche=1747&slot=2&part=A&type=.png

Cut to 240p, scaled up to 720p, added scanlines overlay with and without blur.

What do you think?

I actually like the first image a lot. The other is a bit blurry for my taste

[mr_lou]

How's this one?
My own attempt at creating an overlay.
I think it resembles the Amstrad monitor a bit better.
What do you think?

[||C|-|E||]

Liking it a lot!  Could you try it with some other screens?

[mr_lou]

Liking it a lot!  Could you try it with some other screens?

Here's Batman.

[mr_lou]

And Prohibition

[khaz]

The problem with a scan line filter is that it's a tiny part of why a CRT looks great to begin with. Most TVs don't even display distinct scan lines. I believe it was shown that 4K was the minimum resolution needed to accurately represent the shadow mask / aperture grille, but even this won't be enough. The first key element of a CRT I think is that the electron beam makes for a round or oblong phosphor spot, something that is never accounted for in any filter I ever saw. Square razor sharp pixels are an invention of the digital world. The second key point is that the size of the of the pixel itself is dependent on its brightness. a white or yellow pixel will take more space than a dark blue one: the black lines between scan lines have a variable thickness depending on how bright that region of the screen is.

Examples taken from another forum:
The first one is taken from a professional monitor, which has a much higher line definition than your standard TV, hence an exaggerated scan line separation. The second picture is what comes out of the NES HDMI mod, one of the best out there regarding upscaling and lag.
http://www.ultraimg.com/images/IMG_4693e420b.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/UvueYyv.jpg

[mr_lou]

The problem with a scan line filter is that it's a tiny part of why a CRT looks great to begin with. Most TVs don't even display distinct scan lines. I believe it was shown that 4K was the minimum resolution needed to accurately represent the shadow mask / aperture grille, but even this won't be enough. The first key element of a CRT I think is that the electron beam makes for a round or oblong phosphor spot, something that is never accounted for in any filter I ever saw. Square razor sharp pixels are an invention of the digital world. The second key point is that the size of the of the pixel itself is dependent on its brightness. a white or yellow pixel will take more space than a dark blue one: the black lines between scan lines have a variable thickness depending on how bright that region of the screen is.

There's no doubt that it's not the real thing.

But I'm bound to 720p, 50 fps.
I'm just looking for the best possible overlay to simulate an Amstrad monitor. Just a little bit is better than nothing. Just a little texture is better than blocky pixels.
So I have 3x3 LED pixels for each CRT pixel. How does such a 3x3 filter-grid look like in order to simulate the Amstrad CPC as good as possible within these constraints?

The NES HDMI thingy looks like the same thing the Framemeister produces at 1080p.
But that's no where close to what the Amstrad monitor did.

[||C|-|E||]

It seems clear that we have to emulate the whole electron beam, particle by particle, and the phosphorescent screen itself. Then, we can generate a virtual CRT monitor a virtually connect the emulator output to it. We should even emulate the electrons going through the cables, the PCBs... 

P.D: I really like the screens! 

[Phi2x]

.

[khaz]

Haha, yeah. I don't really miss shitty Composite like that though, RGB is where it's at.

[Apollo]

@mr_lou:
The screens look very good, not completely as on a CTM but more as a modern CRT in the 90s but look great nevertheless!

@khaz:
Yeah, this is a important feature of CRTs that brightness results in "bigger" pixels and most emulation don't take that into account.

@alex76gr:
Do you or anybody else have that zip from the first post anywhere? The link is sadly dead...

I was actually thinking to do a small tool for exactly that, that you can drop in a screenshot from an emulator in full-edgy glory and it renders a correct CRT or CTM pixel emulation out of it. Till now that was just a thought but as this thread shows it seems I am not the only one and I would be glad to make such a tool. The only thing I need is a good description how you get to the final image. Any descriptions are welcome and I would do some coding this weekend.

[||C|-|E||]

RGB was my choice back in the day as well! To be honest, I still keep a huge old CRT TV in Spain (on of those Sony with FD Trinitron that go up to 1440x1080i) and it is what I use with my old consoles when I go there. I bought it in 2006, when they were retiring them, and I never dared to change it for a flat screen. The problem is, of course, the weight and overall size of the monster (it is 36"). My dad wanted to throw it away this Christmas (although is basically mint because nobody uses it). Luckily, I was around to tell him not to touch it! 

[||C|-|E||]

@mr_lou:
The screens look very good, not completely as on a CTM but more as a modern CRT in the 90s but look great nevertheless!

@khaz:
Yeah, this is a important feature of CRTs that brightness results in "bigger" pixels and most emulation don't take that into account.

@alex76gr:
Do you or anybody else have that zip from the first post anywhere? The link is sadly dead...

I was actually thinking to do a small tool for exactly that, that you can drop in a screenshot from an emulator in full-edgy glory and it renders a correct CRT or CTM pixel emulation out of it. Till now that was just a thought but as this thread shows it seems I am not the only one and I would be glad to make such a tool. The only thing I need is a good description how you get to the final image. Any descriptions are welcome and I would do some coding this weekend.

A tool like that would be amazing