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avatar_alex76gr

Everything looks better in scanlines!

Started by alex76gr, 12:48, 31 May 14

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mr_lou

Quote from: Apollo on 19:46, 29 January 16
The screens look very good, not completely as on a CTM but more as a modern CRT in the 90s but look great nevertheless!

Thanks!

Anything you can think of I could do to make it look more like a CTM?

TotO

Your last tests look better, but I think the filter is not properly applied.
When the pixel is black, the mask have to be black (using multiply).

For example, a blue screen don't have red and greed pixel together. So, the vertical scanline is more pronounced.
The best is to take some close CTM shots with the different CPC coulours and see the result...

"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

Phi2x

#52
.

mr_lou

Quote from: TotO on 21:09, 29 January 16
Your last tests look better, but I think the filter is not properly applied.
When the pixel is black, the mask have to be black (using multiply).

For example, a blue screen don't have red and greed pixel together. So, the vertical scanline is more pronounced.
The best is to take some close CTM shots with the different CPC coulours and see the result...

I was wondering about that. The reason is that I'm using a simple overlay right now.

To use multiply I can either manually do it in GiMP for each picture. But this means all pictures will be huge, and I don't have that much space available.
I can do it in code though (at least in theory), which is probably what I'll end up trying.

But this doesn't affect the videos, only the pictures. I can't apply a multiply layer using code for the videos.
So in this case I have to find a way to apply a multiply layer in Kdenlive.....

Unless someone knows of another way to apply such a multiply layer to a video?

mr_lou

Alright, attempt 3.

How's this?

dodogildo

M'enfin!

||C|-|E||

It looks very cool to me as well  :)

mr_lou

Ok, I picked up my CTM from storage and took a closer look.
While I was out, the same thing that I would see myself was pointed out to me on IRC: That the RGB elements on a CTM screen aren't aligned horizontally.

Some interesting close-ups here:
Amstrad CPC - Technique graphique (7-épaisseur & luminosité des pixels)

The elements are shifted ½ length to each other, and each pixel uses up more than one RGB element.

That's of course also what alex76gr did in the first post.

In my 720p screenshots each CPC pixel is equal to 3x3 LED pixels. So I have 3x3 pixels to put "more than one RGB element" into.

I chose to do it like I think Devilmarkus has done for JavaCPC (it looks like it, but I can't know for sure).

(R)(G)(B)(0)
(B)(0)(R)(G)

This is of course not accurate, but as pointed out by khaz, we can forget about accuracy, even on a 4k resolution.
I'm only aiming at producing a simulation of a CTM, to give a texture that'll feel familiar.
Using the above pattern I will
- have more than one RGB element for each pixel.
- have shifted each RGB element ½ length relative to each other horizonally

So I think the overlay pixel positions is fine now. They ought to give an impression close to an Amstrad monitor.
Now I "just" need some way of fixing the colours, which I think becomes all too dark. When attempting to brighten them, they just become rather dusty.

Trying to adjust levels, as alex76gr describes, results in blurry colours.

TotO

#58
Nice, you have finaly chose an "honeycomb" texture. We go ahead!  ;)
What shown the CTM close shots is the fact that picture don't have horizontal scanlines on CTM, because pixels are "interleaved".
But, vertical black columns that separate each pixels horizontaly. (and only pixel localised blur, not over all the picture)
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

TotO

#59
Here, 2x2 pixels are a 24x24 pattern. (a 12x12 pattern don't allow to recreate the thin vertical black columns)

[attachimg=2]

With this pattern, a 4K display is required to properly emulate the CTM!!!  :o
Sure, a hard computing on each pixel need to be processed to recreate the real picture. I can't manually.
Watch it at 25% (really good) and 100% size (fake colours).

[attach=2]
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

mr_lou

Quote from: TotO on 18:03, 30 January 16
Here, 2x2 pixels are a 24x24 pattern. (a 12x12 pattern don't allow to recreate the thin vertical black columns)
With this pattern, a 4K display is required to properly emulate the CTM!!!  :o
Sure, a hard computing on each pixel need to be processed to recreate the real picture. I can't manually.
Watch it at 25% (really good) and 100% size (fake colours).

hehe, yea.
It may look better if you applied a little blur though?

Maybe I'll create a 4k version of 8-bit Stories later. For now I'll settle for a 720p version.  :)
Targeting blu-ray, I can't even go to 1080p because 50fps is only possible with 720p according to the specification.
I haven't seen the specs for Ultra HD Blu-ray yet. But if 4k 50fps is possible, then I might make a 4k version in the future.

TotO

Blur don't need to be applied and will come by itself if each pixel are a real RGB pattern with different level of brightness for each of them.
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

mr_lou

Quote from: TotO on 18:28, 30 January 16
Blur don't need to be applied and will come by itself if each pixel are a real RGB pattern with different level of brightness for each of them.

Hm, I can't see the logic behind that.

Your example is very sharp, which a CTM or another CRT isn't.

TotO

#63
Because as said, my exemple is a fake using colours with patterns for each pixels.
Instead, it will be required to change each R,G,B luminosity inside each pattern to create the real colour and local blur.
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

mr_lou

Quote from: TotO on 19:41, 30 January 16
Because as said, my exemple is a fake using colours with patterns for each pixels.
Instead, it will be required to change each R,G,B luminosity inside each pattern to create the real colour and local blur.

Alright, I understand what you mean.
Can't quite see how it would result in the kind of blur I see on my CTM though.

TotO

#65
First... Here, a new pattern applied as "multiply filter" to only shown the actives colours pixels. (0%, 50%, 100%)
Sure, it look very dark and too much sharp... But that allow to understand the direction to properly emulate the display.

[attach=2]

The same with a 25% resize... (false pixels are created to simulate the lack of resolution)

[attach=3]
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

robcfg

Looking good!


As for the image being too dark, I copied the image to another layer on GIMP and set layer mode to screen and transparency to 50%, and this is the result:


[attach=2]

mr_lou

#67
I found a link that seems to indicate that 50 fps is possible on Ultra HD Blu-ray players, so I might do a 4k version of 8-bit Stories later.
But it really depends on how many people is even interested in the 720p version. Because doing a 4k version would at minimum require re-encoding all the videos, possibly even re-recording them, since the 4k resolution allows me to record a 270p video from the CPC instead of a 240p version.
(But this would require new gear too, and I've already spent way too much money on this project as it is).

Those 4k examples still lack the blurriness and brightness.

I would do the filter a bit differently.

As khaz already pointed out, even 4k isn't enough to properly reproduce the RGB-elements layout. It still has to be scaled down a bit. As far as I can see, the result would be something like I came up with.

TotO

The problem is you filter not recreate real pixels.  ;D
It is not a rainbow but "R,G,B" individual gradiant looking "Dark-Bright-Dark".
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

ZbyniuR

WOW - Now I see what you trying to do. This look more similar to CRT than scanlines in emulator, but I think horizontal dark lines should be more visible than vertical lines. :)
In STARS, TREK is better than WARS.

TotO

The goal is not to fake what peoples want to see, but what is really displayed.  ;)
You can zoom on a CTM screen and search... No scanline, only dots and more or less prounonced verticals rows when R/G/B pixels are off.
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

mr_lou

Quote from: TotO on 10:16, 31 January 16
The problem is you filter not recreate real pixels.  ;D
It is not a rainbow but "R,G,B" individual gradiant looking "Dark-Bright-Dark".

Yes, but as we can agree, that becomes too dark.

So instead, I pick a mix of the two colours on each side of the dark.
So, e.g. between Red and Green, instead of black I'll put a dark RedGreen, i.e. 0x3f3f00
I'll also boost the Red and Green. That way it becomes
RED - redgreen - GREEN - greenblue - BLUE - bluered
0xff7f7f - 0x3f3f00 - 0x7fff7f - 0x003f3f - 0x7f7fff - 0x3f003f

Quote from: TotO on 10:54, 31 January 16The goal is not to fake what peoples want to see, but what is really displayed.  ;)
You can zoom on a CTM screen and search... No scanline, only dots and more or less prounonced verticals rows when R/G/B pixels are off.

My goal is to create an effect that looks like a CTM on a 720p resolution, not create a 100% realistic recreation.
And as already established, creating a 100% realistic look isn't even possible with a 4k resolution.

But IF I were to use 4k resolution, I would us the approach I've described here, in order to create a look similar to a CTM.

TotO

It is not the way to fix the problem... But, increasing the RGB surface and reducing the black gaps.
I have made a resize to 25% to show how it look more brighter is less black is used.

You can't produce a picture as bright as your LCD display if you want to properly simulate what a CRT shown.
Because a CRT without black areas will be more brighter too. ;)
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

Phi2x

#73
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TotO

You can't lost luminosity.
You should do like on a real CTM and increase it on your monitor.  ;D
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

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