Great games with Bad Controls! How hard would it be for a programmer to alter?

[arnoldemu]

About the shots working as I said, I don't know if it wasn't thought about (e.g. they didn't think it was an issue), if there wasn't so much in the way of design then, or if it was coded this way on purpose.

[Axelay]

Shoot em ups. They have this same mechanic. You press the space bar frantically and sometimes it's just like the input is not taken. Or at some periods you stop shooting bullets, while others you can shoot fast.
It's like there is a limitation of how many bullets you can shoot at a time (and based on total sprite numbers/enemies?) but not always, there are periods between shooting as many times as you press and not shooting enough.


I am not sure if I am clear. There are times I press frantically the space bar and sometimes bullets are not coming out and I loose. I see it everywhere, even in modern games, like Star Sabre. Is it because of limitation of sprites at the same time on screen? Input limitation, delays?

There's no input problem or delay in Star Sabre, unless perhaps you are guy.     I've only seen a couple of instances where I could be sure a CPC game wasnt firing because it failed to read the key input, usually I think it is pretty clearly a sprite limitation.   In Star Sabre you are limited to having 3,6 or 9 main bullets in play at a time, according to your power up level.  You can manipulate your fire rate when you have a power up by hanging close to screen sides, background or in some cases the enemies you are shooting to shorten the 'life time' of some shots though.  Pressing fire frantically wont always work, and it's not intended that it should, you still need to pick your shots to a certain degree, like many other early 80's shooters, even in the arcade.

[Gryzor]

Heh


In other games, it's part of the game mechanics. Take Space Invaders - only one bullet allowed in the air. I don't think it's an issue of technical limitations but rather of forcing you to consider your tactics.


But in the case of the weapon firing unevenly, of course, it gets technical.

[Axelay]

In other games, it's part of the game mechanics. Take Space Invaders - only one bullet allowed in the air. I don't think it's an issue of technical limitations but rather of forcing you to consider your tactics.

Funny, I nearly went on to mention Space Invaders in my previous post, because I'd be surprised if it *wasn't* an example of game design shaped by technical limitations. 

[Gryzor]

Nah, with 55 alien sprites on-screen, plus the player sprite (plus possibly the bunkers?) plus the invader bullets (three bullets max from a single invader I think), I guess if they wanted more player bullets on screen they could do it. But the thing is, with more bullets it'd be much, much easier. Think, especially, the moments when there's only one invader left, zapping left and right at full speed. If you had multiple shots it'd get quite trivial, losing all the excitement it now has.

[Axelay]

Oh, the player having one shot wasnt what I would have talked about though, I meant the design more generally.  Something that sticks out to me is the way that the invaders are updated one at a time.  That approach might be just to regulate movement so they naturally speed up as they are destroyed, but that would be an assumption.  I've read the original idea had been to have the player shoot down aircraft but the staggered movement of the enemy didnt look right for planes, so aliens were eventually settled on.  Why didnt he just make the planes move smoothly if there was no kind of limitation?  I've not seen anything definitive on that, but regardless of the reason behind the staggered movement, it sounds a bit like a 'shotgun' design change to me. 

[Optimus]

Games that have one shoot are at least predictable, you know when you can shoot or not. But I was thinking of these other shooters where you seem to be allowed to shoot many bullets at once but sometimes less. But thanks for the explanation. I am gonna play Star Sabre again and see if and when it happens.


I read somewhere about the original space invaders that the arcade couldn't handle the many sprites fast enough, so that's the reason why it goes faster the more you kill, but then this became like a game design decision

[Shaun M. Neary]

Renegade's controls used to infuriate me. If they could fit all the moves into it's sequel, I really don't understand how the original couldn't utilise the fire button.

[Puresox]

Renegade was a weird setup control wise for sure, I think that the arcade had the same sort of key layout .

[Shaun M. Neary]

Yeah, it was done to simulate it. Breakthru also suffered the same fate.

[Puresox]

Sort of related question, Are there any versions of Winape that allow you to map the keys to a joypad? I know that you can choose joystick settings with a two button set-up . But wondered if you could map multiple functions e.g. Elite , Starglider?