Started by sigh, 16:48, 23 April 12
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Quote from: TFM/FS on 21:58, 01 May 12Ok, I don't lack the answer any longer... Yes, CPC has one game using 1 pel (abbrv. for pixel) scroll. It's Side Arms:http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=1933 Tada
Quote from: TFM/FS on 03:11, 02 May 12Ahhh. Ok! You got me I continue searching then... (hmm... and I thought in later levels it also scrolls up, but I probably mixed that...).
QuoteHeh heh!! No it's not! It's not multi directional either
Quote from: MacDeath on 15:54, 02 May 12yurk, the graphics would need a serious re-job.
Quote from: sigh on 22:43, 01 May 12I looked at a bunch of mutli directional scrolling on Xyphoes A-Z of football games - but they were choppy.So far the best multi directional scrolling I have seen is Dynamite Dux and Skate Crazy.
Quote from: ivarf on 12:05, 04 May 12If you want the best multidirectional scrolling, I suggest you take a look at TLL (Tornado Low Level) from Vortex
Quote from: TFM/FS on 18:48, 04 May 12Well, that's what I pray since decades ;-) However, it has not a 1-pixel scroll, therefore I didn't mention it here.
Quote from: fgbrain on 19:11, 30 April 12For old generation CPC, I believe the smoothest scroll in 8 directions is in a PD game called "Burning Wheels" by T. M. SCHMIDT :http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=635Almost impossible for me to play ...
Quote from: arnoldemu on 15:08, 04 May 12I have written some example code to show off vertical pixel by pixel scroll.I will add horizontal to it, then we can get an idea of what works well and how much cpu/ram it all takes.
Quote from: ivarf on 00:45, 05 May 12I know it isn't a 1-pixel scroller, but as sigh wrote "So far the best multi directional scrolling I have seen is" I thought it was about time to mention it again. How important is 1-bit scrolling when you can have a scroll so fast and smooth fullscreen on the CPC? Most of the other diagonal scrollers mentioned in this thread are just rubbish in my humble opinion
Quote from: sigh on 13:33, 05 May 121 pixel scrolling is definitely important (in my opinion) when it comes to sports games or some scrolling shooters which may need a tighter control when it comes to movement and feedback. Many football games suffered on the CPC due to some choppy scrolling, ruining the overall experience.
Quote from: TotO on 16:54, 05 May 121 pixel scrolling is important for games that required slow map moves (r-type/gauntlet/...). If the scrolling is fast or if your display is not 50Hz (but 25Hz or less), half or full char scrolling is fine.
Quote from: arnoldemu on 15:26, 07 May 12Standard scroll, char by char, very fast(!) and smooth(!):8 pixels vertically , 16 pixels in mode 2 horizontally each frame.http://www.cpctech.org.uk/source/vscroll1.asmVertical scroll using R5, horizontal scroll using R3, very smooth (!):1 pixel vertically, 8 pixels in mode 2 horizontally (2 in mode 0, 4 in mode 1) each frame.Both working together.http://www.cpctech.org.uk/source/vscroll2.asm Vertically it is as smooth as Mission Genocide. Vertical scroll using R5, horizontal scroll 2 screens each offset by 1 byte: 1 pixel vertically, 8 pixels in mode 2 horizontally (2 in mode 0, 4 in mode 1) each frame. Both working together. http://www.cpctech.org.uk/source/vscroll3.asm Tests run on CPC6128 with crtc type 1, cpc plus cm14 monitor.All are smooth.test 3 uses 2 times as much ram (32k) because we need to store a version that is not offset and one that is offset.For this the scrolling must be continuous. No changes to hsync, vsync so compatible with all monitors.Others use normal amount (16k), scroll can stop and start. R3 scroll not compatible with all monitors/televisions/modulators.If you want double buffered double this up.So it shows that R5 and R3 scrolling can be used together.It's not pixel by pixel yet, that is the next step, also it doesn't draw any new graphics.. it shifts the existing graphics it draws at the start.
Quote from: sigh on 18:44, 07 May 12So to achieve the 1 pixel scroll in both directions (which would sort out the shaking) the R5 method would have to be used? This would mean that a game must continuosly scroll, so how could it be done so that the scroll could stop, start and go backwards? etc.
Quote from: TFM/FS on 21:58, 07 May 12@Arnoldemu: That was a great idea to provide source of scrolling. Let my suggest one thing. You could give an example of vertical scrolling (w/o horizontal scrolling), that may be good for people who are "new" to scrolling. (Just an idea).
Quote from: sigh on 18:44, 07 May 12These results are incredibly interesting! (thank you very much!)It'm guessing that "Burning Wheels" is using the "R3" scroll method in conjuction with the 1 pixel vertical scroll as it looks very much like your example. It seems that the shaking in the diagonal movement is due to the horizontal scroll moving 2 pixels instead of 1; meaning that it's always shifting an extra horizontal pixel against the single pixel vertical?
Quote from: sigh on 18:44, 07 May 12(Though both the 2nd and 3rd examples looked very similar in terms of the diagonals)
Quote from: sigh on 18:44, 07 May 12 So to achieve the 1 pixel scroll in both directions (which would sort out the shaking) the R5 method would have to be used? This would mean that a game must continuosly scroll, so how could it be done so that the scroll could stop, start and go backwards? etc.
Quote from: sigh on 18:44, 07 May 12It'm guessing that "Burning Wheels" is using the "R3" scroll method in conjuction with the 1 pixel vertical scroll as it looks very much like your example. It seems that the shaking in the diagonal movement is due to the horizontal scroll moving 2 pixels instead of 1; meaning that it's always shifting an extra horizontal pixel against the single pixel vertical?
Quote from: Axelay on 12:36, 08 May 12I was interested to see what "Burning Wheels" was doing so I've had a bit of a look. The horizontal scrolling is R3 with two screens offset by one pixel, working together to produce a 1 mode 0 pixel step horizontal scroll. The vertical scroll is interesting though, it does not use R5, but uses R9 to set the character height to 4 pixels high rather than the normal 8 pixels. So now the 'course' vertical hardware scroll is 4 pixels instead of 8, and it then uses a further 2 screens that mirror the first 2 but are vertically offset by 2 pixels. So it can use this combination of 4 screens and R3 to scroll horizontally by 1 mode 0 pixel and vertically by 2 pixels.I dont see any reason why this approach should have an issue with diagonal scrolling, and slowing down an emulator I can see when moving diagonally the screen sometimes shifts both vertically and horizontally, but sometimes not, so that is why it's not smooth sometimes. I would take a guess that this is only occurring because of the way it's calculating the multi directional movement, which is not fixed to 8 directions but is a full 360 degree movement, or at least something close to it.
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