Started by sigh, 16:48, 23 April 12
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Quote from: Xyphoe on 11:53, 18 May 12Oh and I don't think it's any issue in keeping the sprites 'small' ... don't worry about that... look how well it worked out for Sensible Soccer and the Kick Off series....If we can get away with just vertical scrolling (ignoring horizontally) that might speed things up no end, maybe the R3 trick would be possible if not doing Plus verion.We also need to come up with a cool name for it that links it to the Amstrad ... I dunno, like.... CPC Super Cup Finals, International Amstrad Soccer (to be cheeky!), etc. But probably not "AMSOCCER" lol ... besides that's already been used believe it or not! (and is really really shit!)
Quote from: MacDeath on 15:44, 18 May 12I always wondered, would it be that difficult to have such side scroling Footy game, but with the "lines" and some stuff done in "3D" yet with a 2D sprite layer on this ?With this, the lines would perform some sort of proper animated perspective perhaps.One good point with footy games is that as CPC is a bit... old school, you may need only small sprites.Having the screen redimensionned into a vertical 256pixels can enable to use only one kind of scrolling.
Quote from: arnoldemu on 15:48, 18 May 12I think the graphics are great, but what really makes a good game is the playability.This is true of any game.
Quotetop down vertical scrolling footy games
Quote from: MacDeath on 17:20, 18 May 12the "placement matrix" for the sprites would need to be calculated like the lines on the floor.Concerning the differently sized sprites... well perhaps.But you know, even if the lines on the grass are generated in 2D/bitmap (= no parralax), you should still get this sort of deepness perspective effect...Of course as the sprites are already small, not a lot of zoom perhaps, let's say 3 sizes could do... a bit the way the Race/driving games often managed the way stuff would zoom.Also depends whether you aim at a 64K RAM game or 128K RAM game...Good point with those sprites is that they are small... but as you need :=8 direction facing... faster if you double the spriteset (more RAM used), use CPU if you use a mirror Effect.=many poses (walk, run, takle, shoot and so on... in 8 directions...).=Palette swap, easier CPUwise if you simply double the sprite sets... CPU intensive if you use the same spriteset for both teams...64K RAM is not always good.False 3D in isometric/cavalier perspective display are false too anyway.Paralax effect yeah, but what I suggested was to get those white lines generated in "Vector graphics"... So not really 3D but sort of... a 3D plane or whatever.Good point is perhaps that such vector graphic plane could need no bitmaped tiles... and scrolling may be easier then.example : your footy game.on the top, you would have a "normal" bitmapped zone (the public/score) which may need to scroll though.Then you have the "vector line" zone, with a masked bitmap sprite screen in overlay.the grass could perhaps also even have some sort of "starfield" (grassfield indeed) in order to get a grassy effect...Lines could have different size (wideness) in order to get those goalpost/cages (what is it named in english ?)I was mostly "suggesting and asking", because actually I don't know if the CPC is powerfull enough to do such thing... nor if the gain would be that great.But if it could be done, you could then get some sort of proper awesome ProEvolutionSoccerCPC... not always good when playing 2player game perhaps... but I loved speedball 2...
Quote from: Xyphoe on 21:58, 18 May 12Doh! I made a mistake"If we can get away with just vertical scrolling (ignoring horizontally)"I meant to say the opposite - if we can get away with just horizontally scrolling I would prefer that, I like side-on soccer games. Although, the most successful (Sensible Soccer, Kick Off, Microprose Soccer) were all top-down ones and to be honest is more intuitive from a gameplay point of view arguably, but then when we watch on TV it's side-on and modern football games (Fifa, Pro Evo) are side-on by default.
Quote from: Xyphoe on 14:32, 19 May 12It would be fantastic to have all those moves to pull off, but I suspect it will slow down the game an awful lot - again case in point Match Day II and Emlyn Hughes which have a large range of moves, but end up being slow.I would keep it really simple to start with (computer AI is going to be the hardest to program I reckon). Then in the future there can be revised versions released with new features, bit like the Fifa series!Code it for use of two fire buttons (never understood games made for one fire button ... didn't 95% of joysticks have two buttons?!)...Fire 1 - low pass / shot along ground (in possession ball) & sliding tackle (not in possession of ball)Fire 2 - high pass / lob (in possession of ball) & jump / header (not in possession of ball)Seriously, have a watch of that Word Cup 90 video I posted (on page 5 of this topic) to see how exactly it achieves this and just how well and fun it works out.
Quote from: Xyphoe on 14:32, 19 May 12Code it for use of two fire buttons (never understood games made for one fire button ... didn't 95% of joysticks have two buttons?!)...
Quote from: TMR on 13:36, 20 May 12As someone who sold 8-bit joysticks back in the day i can, even though my sales patter for specific sticks has long since been mentally defragmented, say with what i'd call a reasonable degree of certainty that joysticks with two independent buttons were less common than single button sticks.Some of the big sellers i remember were the Quickshot 2, Python 1M and to a lesser degree Maverick 1, the Cheetah 125 which was the cheapest we sold but usually fell apart after a fortnight, the Competition Pro, the Cruiser, Konix Speedking and again to a lesser degree the Navigator and my personal favourite was the Zipstik; of that list, only the Python and Maverick offered an optional two button mode (labelled as for the Master System but it worked on other 8-bits if memory serves, along with an Amstrad mode which disabled the autofire) and they were usually at the quieter end of the sales charts.So... this 'ere footy game, is it too early to be mentioned in RG's What's Brewing news items or what? =-)
Quote from: sigh on 20:40, 19 May 12The AI is definitely going to be the major challenge for any programmer, as having to work out the ball physics(?), goalkeeper, what the team mates are doing and where they are on the pitch as well as the opponents. I noticed that on a lot of the 8 bit foot games, the players end up being bunched up which reminded me of when I was a kid playing football in the playground, where everyone would just rush for the ball. The goalkeepers are always problematic, even in todays console football games as there always seems to be a sweet spot where the goalie just cant catch the ball.
Quote from: sigh on 20:40, 19 May 12I watched the World Cup 90 and you were very lucky in the game against Germany ! I'm looking for something inbetween a simulation and an arcade and World Cup 90 is very arcadey and a little too pinbally(in my opinion.) It would be nice to have things like through balls etc to set up some more interesting plays as there was quite a lot of bicycle kicks being abused in that game (or maybe that's just because your too damned good!)
Quote from: Xyphoe on 16:31, 20 May 12It should hopefully just the case in terms of defensive play - * a set formation (eg 4 defenders) that have an invisible barrier of how far they can move up/down/left/right independantly* move in line/towards the ball horizontally* find which player is nearest the ball and have him home in on itAttacking play is probably the most hard to get right. It seems most (crap) games have a hit and hope approach finding players hoofing out throw a throw unnecessarily etc.I guess then...* code a 'line of sight' in 3 directions or maybe 8 directions if feeling brave for the computer to choose the 'most appropriate' player to pass to* if it finds none - it hits a long ball up the pitch* when within 30 yards of the goal - the computer can decide to hit the ball as a shot on goal. Maybe have this generated randomly (50/50)* other players move about freely moving up the pitch if attacking and spreading apart or moving inside to make runsYou may want to think about the offside rule too
Quote from: Xyphoe on 16:37, 20 May 12One last comment, I think it's important with soccer games being able to score via a variety of methods - the fun is finding these and the suprise/delight in pulling these off (this is why I love World Cup 90 and Taito's Football Champ so much... and also in terms of Amstrad why Emlyn Hughes is far and away the best soccer game due to the crazy ways you can score, Match Day II to an extent as well)So being able to hit high balls for crosses, lobs, etc really important.If swerve could be done, WOW! That's what made Microprose Soccer so fab.
Quote from: sigh on 17:14, 20 May 12Probably it might be best to have code that works with a megadrive pad as they are cheap and easier to find? I tried a megadrive pad on the CPC (can't remember what game) and though it worked, it wasn't very playable as the second fire button was the start button.
Quote from: Xyphoe on 16:24, 20 May 12I think it's from what years you look at joysticks, by the end of the 80s every joystick had two buttons including most of the ones you mentioned (I have about 3 Konix Speedkings which has two firebuttons, one even with an autofire rah!).
Quote from: sigh on 17:14, 20 May 12Until I find some programmers that are interested, along with a demo to see if the game is doable with this amount of animation, it might be best to hold off for a little while.
Quote from: TotO on 18:23, 20 May 12It's not possible without an adapter with some electronic on it.Many soccer games play really nice with "only" 2 buttons and directions.
Quote from: TMR on 18:35, 20 May 12i seem to remember that the Master System pads and sticks tended to work, but don't quote me on that... me personally, i'd have two sets of joystick routines for one or two button sticks so nobody is left out.
Quote from: sigh on 20:14, 20 May 12Really? Are you sure that you cant just have a code or a patch that just redefines the joypad buttons to work on the CPC? I'm quite sure that they did work fine but the buttons were all mixed up.
Quote from: TMR on 18:29, 20 May 12i was selling them in the late 1980s to the early 1990s and the majority of sticks we flogged were single button. Yes, there are two button versions of sticks like the Speedking but they were labelled as being for Sega consoles so the single button versions outsold them several times over and sticks like the Cheetah 125 or Zipstik outsold all flavours of Speedking combined.
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