Is there a good reason for not having maniac mansion or a SCUMM point and click adventure on CPC?
No.
Great !! :D
So who is in charge of the project? ::)
:D I'm just starting "programming the Z80" give me five years..
CPC Adventure? Orion Prime? Ok, I missed one... can't remember...
I guess some people (led by Megachur) are working on a conversion of the Scumm engine on CPC. They are talking about it at CPCRulez (french only !). But I know nothing more.
incredible!
I wish they succeed!
The only problem with this is that they want to convert monkey island, which is a big morcel for a CPC6128...
But the task is not that impossible, this would just need quite a lot of work to get from C into Assembly language...
But graphically this is not a real problem.
We did a lot of mockups for CPC...
Why no scumm for CPC ?
Well, american company, they didn't even know the CPC exist.
ManiacMansion or zackMacKracken could run on 8086 IBM PC in 160x200x16 (super CGA...sort of, or Tandy...) or C64 (160x200x16 too).
Even the Humble NES...
On the other hand, IndianaJones3, Monkey Island and Loom could run on a CGA version... this per example can enable vrey easy Graphics conversion in Mode1...
But those 3 games (almost the same original engine/scumm version) used to need a 512K Ram PC... ran quite well on my 12mhz EGA PC with 2 HD disc Drives...
Or the 512K Ram CGA 8mhz XT PC from a friend (with 2 3"1/2 DD disc drives)
but to get those running on a 6128 would be with large cuts off.
Passing from a laggy 8 mhz to a laggy 3.3 (or 4) mhz... and from 512K to 128K (1/4...) and from 720k disks to... 2x180K disks...
the game would spend it's entire life to load and reload from disk...
The typical games that would love a good Ram Expension and 2 disk Drives (1x3"1/2 DD 720K and native 3"...perhaps...)...
On the other hand Loom was Awesome, Indiana Jones3 (scumm one) too and Monkey too of course.
but we already had this discussion last Summer, just find it.
http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php/topic,1150.0.html
done...
There's also the excellent B.A.T. if you want a CPC point-and-click adventure.
Mhz has never been the issue, it's about the size of the gfxs that you have to draw/convert. Though I'm pretty sure Maniac mansion could fit into a double sided 3,5" disc. But to me they're doing it wrong. Forget about Scumm, it fit to a PC. They should study it and recreate something else, lighter, that would fit the CPC. Anyway...
That's why I was asking about maniac mansion, they did it on C64, so even if I'm a lamer in coding, I can imagine it could be done on CPC.
amazing GFX for Monkey on CPC!!!
.
QuoteIt would put the 512kB Plus cartridge to good use thoug
Why not, such 512k ROM game with a 6128+ and using diskDrive would actually be more than awesome.
But always the same dbate... only for perhaps 10-12 users ?
.
QuoteSo, let's put this in perspective: a GX4000 has glorious 64KB of RAM, that's 32 times more than the NES!
Also Almost no Hardware support compaired to NES or any real Console...
As it is a CPC main architecture...
Quote from: phi2x on 15:54, 19 January 11
The Nintendo NES had 2KB of RAM, and still there is Maniac Mansion on it.
So, let's put this in perspective: a GX4000 has glorious 64KB of RAM, that's 32 times more than the NES!
The NES had designated V-RAM, the CPC uses it's V-RAM from the first 64 KB. So if the game shall look a bit professional, then you have to use 32 KB screen RAM at last. Further you need some routines in the central RAM (sprite management, scrolling and and and...) to be able to access ROMs and upper Video-RAM. However, there is no reason why the RAM shouldn't be enought - as long as you write your program from the beginning for that design of using ROMs as data-source.
One good thing of the CPC is, that code is executed in ROM as quick as in RAM.
What about having a game spread over 2 cartridges allowing for 1MB? Is this possible?
like the PCEngine's RType in 2 cartridges/parts ?
Why not but having it a 6128+ version using both cartridge and disk may be better...but not GX4000/464+ friendly... :-\
I reckon if it's possible to use 2 cartridges - that's a much better idea just so you can reach a larger audience. I suspect that there are still quite a few GX4000's as they seem easier to come by.
Quote from: TFM/FS on 19:02, 19 January 11
The NES had designated V-RAM, the CPC uses it's V-RAM from the first 64 KB. So if the game shall look a bit professional, then you have to use 32 KB screen RAM at last. Further you need some routines in the central RAM (sprite management, scrolling and and and...) to be able to access ROMs and upper Video-RAM. However, there is no reason why the RAM shouldn't be enought - as long as you write your program from the beginning for that design of using ROMs as data-source.
One good thing of the CPC is, that code is executed in ROM as quick as in RAM.
Yes agreed.
The Ram would be needed to store changing data (e.g. sprite positions, score information, lives, etc ), and the rom for all other routines.
So really 64K ram could be enough.
You don't really need the functions to access upper video in ram because you can map any of the first 8 16k blocks of the cart into the lower rom position, and then you can have your drawing functions here. If done cleverly, you can map the cart rom in both lower and upper and easily swap between them as needed. Perhaps you need some functions in one of the lower 8 roms to do this.
So perhaps you have even more free ram ;)
The problem is in the case of a Monkey Island : an awnfull lot of Graphic datas...
As every backgrounds are not tile based but more like an original paint each time.
Plus a lot of cinematic animations and so on.
But of course in the case of a Maniac Mansion there is far less animations and specific datas, and you can even get a few tile based backgrounds...(or partly tile based...)
So yeah this may be far more doable in 64K Ram and 512k Rom.
Why use 32k of Video Ram to look pro ? 24K is more than enough at best...
Also a few amount of Ram may be used to decompress graphical Datas (directly into "VRam" ?) to enable far more variety in graphics.
But then instead of re-doing an existing game, the best would be to get an original one...
Quote from: sigh on 20:46, 19 January 11
What about having a game spread over 2 cartridges allowing for 1MB? Is this possible?
Well, if you want to change a Cartridge you have to literally switch your CPC off and then on (new Cart). You can't do it "hot", because the ACID is on the Cart.
But... a Carridge can take up a EPROM up to 512 KB. And if this is not enought, then use a good compressor, so you may can get 1 MB in it.
... else ... use an hard-disc ;-)
Quote from: MacDeath on 23:25, 19 January 11
Why use 32k of Video Ram to look pro ? 24K is more than enough at best...
Because the V-RAM is organized in 16 KB blocks. You can work with 24 KB _AS LONG AS_ you do NOT scroll. But as soon as you have to scroll, 32 KB will be changed.
Quote from: arnoldemu on 22:31, 19 January 11
You don't really need the functions to access upper video in ram because you can map any of the first 8 16k blocks of the cart into the lower rom position, and then you can have your drawing functions here.
This works fine for accessing &C000-&FFFF, but you can't at the same time access &0000-&3FFF.
So usually you use the screen RAMs starting at &0000 and &C000. If you move a sprite, then you must be able to access both blocks. Finally your code must be located between &4000 and &7FFF.
Quote from: TFM/FS on 23:35, 19 January 11
Well, if you want to change a Cartridge you have to literally switch your CPC off and then on (new Cart). You can't do it "hot", because the ACID is on the Cart.
But... a Carridge can take up a EPROM up to 512 KB. And if this is not enought, then use a good compressor, so you may can get 1 MB in it.
... else ... use an hard-disc ;-)
Ahhh okay. I did think about that but I thought there might of been some magical possibilities that I missed. :)
No Magic, only loosy technologie and weird Science... ::)
The PLUS cartridge port is one of the worst ever...
But 512K+Compression may be more than enough to get a good SCUMM-like point-and-click...
Just not as advanced as Monkey island...
Would people generally by that excited about a Maniac Mansion / Monkey Island port first and foremost though?
honestly I was just asking a technical do-ability, I will be more happy to play a new game instead of a remake. And furthermore LF is not friendly for people who pretend to sold cartridge...
Quote from: Xyphoe on 02:50, 20 January 11
Would people generally by that excited about a Maniac Mansion / Monkey Island port first and foremost though?
I believe doing a port of the scumm engine then potentially opens the cpc up to the other games based on that engine.
However, personally if I were to do it, I would make my own engine.
So for me the engine is:
1. 1 mode 0 screen (parts possibly animating)
2. a character which moves around and moves behind some things
3. you examine things and perform fixed actions.
4. it then does something based on this. (so some kind of scripting behind the engine)
The hard part, and long part is to actually make the content (the great screens, the story, and how it all works together).
EDIT: Me and a friend analysed leisure suit larry on the atari st. it had a 16 colour screen describing depth, it had another screen defining the collision areas (black/white per pixel), and the 16 colour picture itself.
We didn't work out the other parts of it.
Obviously we can't do this kind of thing on the cpc like that, we would have to do it a completely different way.
or design it so you can't go behind things ;)
I believe leisure suit larry was coded in C on the ST, so perhaps coding an alternative engine on the cpc in C would be a good idea ;)
I really don't know why people get crazy about RAM extension and all that stuff. Don't you know how much a CPC can handle ? The whole Orion Prime intro (minus the fullscreen+digisong) is loaded in a single time. Exomizer and good memory handing can do wonders.
Zac Mc Kraken on ST loads between every screen, it's quite slow, and I'm sure we can do faster on CPC with simple trackload, like the ones I shared years ago.
The two problems are :
- Making a powerful engine is a hard and long work, especially if you want third-party to use it in a user-friendly manner.
- Amount of gfxs to draw/transfert.
Trg.Aks
Quote from: arnoldemu on 10:34, 20 January 11
I believe doing a port of the scumm engine then potentially opens the cpc up to the other games based on that engine.
However, personally if I were to do it, I would make my own engine.
So for me the engine is:
1. 1 mode 0 screen (parts possibly animating)
2. a character which moves around and moves behind some things
3. you examine things and perform fixed actions.
4. it then does something based on this. (so some kind of scripting behind the engine)
The hard part, and long part is to actually make the content (the great screens, the story, and how it all works together).
EDIT: Me and a friend analysed leisure suit larry on the atari st. it had a 16 colour screen describing depth, it had another screen defining the collision areas (black/white per pixel), and the 16 colour picture itself.
We didn't work out the other parts of it.
Obviously we can't do this kind of thing on the cpc like that, we would have to do it a completely different way.
or design it so you can't go behind things ;)
I believe leisure suit larry was coded in C on the ST, so perhaps coding an alternative engine on the cpc in C would be a good idea ;)
I agree with this. I always liked how on Monkey Island that Guybrush would zoom in out of the background.
On a normal CPC, I would go mode 1 and really stylize it. Film noire-ish using the black, grey and white for backgrounds with sharp bright colour on the sprites, in a similar look to Tim Burtons Sleepy Hollow.
Quote from: Targhan on 11:18, 20 January 11
I really don't know why people get crazy about RAM extension and all that stuff. ...
Hehehe! Well, that's like buying a bigger car... You may not need it, but you get used to it very quick - and then you can't live without it. (A new girlfriend could be also such an example, if the new one has bigger .... RAMs). ;D
Quote from: TFM/FS on 23:36, 19 January 11
So usually you use the screen RAMs starting at &0000 and &C000. If you move a sprite, then you must be able to access both blocks. Finally your code must be located between &4000 and &7FFF.
The secondary rom mapping register in the plus can put the lower rom at &0000, &4000 or &8000, so that's not an issue and, of course, you don't have to place the second screen at &0000 anyway.
Quote from: andycadley on 19:46, 20 January 11
The secondary rom mapping register in the plus can put the lower rom at &0000, &4000 or &8000, so that's not an issue and, of course, you don't have to place the second screen at &0000 anyway.
Well, you do have to put the second screen at &0000, because at &4000 you want to bank expansion RAM in and the block between &8000 and &BFFF is the _only_ true commen memory block, which is _always_ there (as long as you use 16 KB RAM banking and not 64 KB block banking. The latter makes usually no sense).
Further the secondary ROM mapping register controls _only_ the position of the Low Bank ROM, but you can't use others that way, which doesn't bother. But using the LBR that way, screws up other aspects.
But what do you want to say? Do you think 64 KB RAM is too much for the GX4000 :o Well, for e.g. sprite routines my argument seems to be still right. But if you find a better solution, great!
Hi
one of my dreams on cpc always been a monkey island game (my favourite monkey island 2)
i've talked a lot with some friend of mine about the possibility of doing this, but, the task is very difficult and i don't have the knowledge.
I thought too that the most easy road to achieve this was look for the weak version on pc compatibles (CGA or something like this), then, in my search i found the most strange conversion of monkey island in the world, for a calculator!!
here is the link: http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/103/10378.html
the trick is that this calculator is based on a motorola 68000 cpu ;)
anyway a curiosity
regards
Quote from: TFM/FS on 20:18, 20 January 11
But what do you want to say? Do you think 64 KB RAM is too much for the GX4000 :o Well, for e.g. sprite routines my argument seems to be still right. But if you find a better solution, great!
ROM mapping on the pluses is pretty sophisticated, you can have any one of 8 ROMs act as the low bank, so that's 128K of ROM you can basically put anywhere and the rest having to sit in the upper ROM area. And the fact you can still write to RAM when a ROM (but not the ASIC registers) is paged over it means that paging it over the screen is rarely a major issue. In any case some combinations are fine, you're rarely writing to the screen when you have the ASIC enabled, for example. Once you've written code for a system that has to page a *lot*, it generally gets easier to work with more complex banking arrangements. 64K RAM may not sound a lot, but it's actually quite generous for a console like the GX4000 and what you get from 128K (which has it's own paging issues) is minimal at best.
I've said many times in the past that coding for the pluses can be a pain in the butt if you aren't writing for a cartridge, because the hardware configuration (like ASIC paging) is severely sub-optimal in that case and gets in the way of RAM paging which clearly wasn't considered important by the designers. Writing a 128K plus game is actually a real pain, JSW+ has pretty much the entire game running in page 7, since it's the only one that can be fixed at &C000 whilst allowing paging to almost all the RAM (the 16K in page 3 was reserved for DMA lists because it's almost unusable otherwise). Doing it for a cartridge would have been so much easier and would've required far less troublesome interrupt and stack handling, even if the cartridge had similarly been just 128K and it would then have run of a 464+/GX4000.
Yes, right. And so if one likes to convert a game to the Plus, the best is a complete rewirte of the banking. This way you have less exp.RAM issues and the enhanced ROM features can be used. Boiled down it's a lot of work if you want to do it really good.
One good thing is though, beginning with ROM select &80, you can access all 16 KB blocks of the cartride one by one (&C000-&FFFF). And that's important, everything can be banked to &C000, so a small common area can allow to jump from ROM to ROM without using a routine in RAM to switch ROM blocks.
Quote from: TFM/FS on 02:29, 21 January 11
One good thing is though, beginning with ROM select &80, you can access all 16 KB blocks of the cartride one by one (&C000-&FFFF). And that's important, everything can be banked to &C000, so a small common area can allow to jump from ROM to ROM without using a routine in RAM to switch ROM blocks.
But this means you are still just treating the Plus like it has a RAM expansion (albeit a ROM expansion really).
The real power does lie with being able to page the lower 8 blocks into various positions with the RMR2. If you do this, you don't really need a RAM expansion or even 128kb. 64kb would do nicely and it will work on a 464+, 6128+ and GX4000.
Longshot explains it well (in French) on the CPC Rulez (http://cpcrulez.fr/coding_cpcplus41.htm) website for anyone who is interested.
Quote from: redbox on 10:53, 21 January 11
But this means you are still just treating the Plus like it has a RAM expansion (albeit a ROM expansion really).
? Eh, no, have been talking about ROM blocks.
Quote from: redbox on 10:53, 21 January 11
The real power does lie with being able to page the lower 8 blocks into various positions with the RMR2. If you do this, you don't really need a RAM expansion or even 128kb. 64kb would do nicely and it will work on a 464+, 6128+ and GX4000.
Sorry, but I can't agree. As a machine code (only) programmer I know about the power of self modifying code. This can't be done in ROM. To bring this on the point we're talking about 20%-50% speed up or even more in certain circumstances. The difference on the screen is then either ugly or looking perfect.
It's nice to have a lot of ROM, but RAM will be always remain more prescious.
Even FutureOS is executing some sort of routines in RAM for good reasons.
So lets just do it on Thomson TO8... it has a native 256K ram... ::)
ok...\troll
:-[
Anyway I agree with the importance of RAM on computerz...
While console could work well with a ridiculously small amount of RAM, we must keep in mind there were mostly Action games (arcade) where the Ram is only used to keep track of the score, the number of lives and replays, the actual power-ups configuration and which level you are...
Also i think many console had a proper extension port as Cartridge port.
Hence you could even add Ram on the cartridge in case you want to do a more "mature" game (RPGs perhaps...
But on an Amstrad PLUS, the Cartridge is ROM only... and limited one actually.
Also the Hard-support is too limited to enable a full Hardsprite setting...
So we need soft-sprite (use Ram to get the routines...) and said RAM may also be used to uncompress or craft sprites from bits of sprites...
Or even stuff like reverse sprites (from left to right...), recolour them or whatever...
And a Game like Maniac/Monkey Island may get a bit messy if the story is well developped...gotta keep tracks of the inventory, of some dialogue already said and so on...
Also if the Backgrounds are to be "unique paints" with lot of ditherings instead of tile based simple compositions, this can really get the 512k ROMstuffed very fast.
BTW aiming for a 6128 config is the best way... Disk Drive is quasi unlimited storage (sort of).
But yeah, lots of loading then.
In case of a 464+ or GX4000... the game would have to be far more limited in content.
No Operation Stealth port then...
Also... while the 464+ can still be suitable because it has a proper extension port and a Tape Drive (lol) the GX4000 is quite difficult concerning Game Saves...
And a complex SCUMM based game do need a game save/load system !
ok perhaps using codes... erf... this will be soo fun to note or enter a 32 characters Hexadecimal sequence with the paddle... ;D
Rom is good to have basic (not in basic, but basical...in assembly of course...erf...) engine mecanics or even some Datas... But Ram and disk drive (or even keyboard and more RAM) is also so precious...
Also there may be a limitation on the CPU speed the ROM or RAM may bring...
beyond certain point, additionnal RAM/ROM is only relevant concerning Loading time... not CPU speed.
Quote from: TFM/FS on 20:24, 21 January 11
? Eh, no, have been talking about ROM blocks.
I meant by only paging into &C000 it is treating the ROM like a RAM page-in, where as infact a ROM page-in can happen in different places.
Quote from: TFM/FS on 20:24, 21 January 11
Sorry, but I can't agree. As a machine code (only) programmer I know about the power of self modifying code. This can't be done in ROM. To bring this on the point we're talking about 20%-50% speed up or even more in certain circumstances. The difference on the screen is then either ugly or looking perfect.
Absolutely, but it all depends on what you're programming. Self modifying code can be quicker, but usually it's done to be quicker when you have limited memory. With the cartridge you don't really have this problem and you can unroll loops (because you're not worried about running out of memory) etc to attain speed increases.
::) Well, usually the reason for using self modifying code is to make it more quick, saving some bytes is more a side effect. I mean, the CPC has at least 64 KB, so saving RAM it not really that important. But right it depends on what you want to do. So it's good to have enough RAM just in case. ;)
However, we're getting off topic...
Quote from: TFM/FS on 22:36, 22 January 11
::) Well, usually the reason for using self modifying code is to make it more quick, saving some bytes is more a side effect. I mean, the CPC has at least 64 KB, so saving RAM it not really that important. But right it depends on what you want to do. So it's good to have enough RAM just in case. ;)
32kb left if you take 16kb for the screen and 16kb for the ASIC page-in. Or 16kb left if you double buffer. Not much room there for compiled sprites or unrolled loops :)
Quote from: TFM/FS on 22:36, 22 January 11
However, we're getting off topic...
8)
Quote from: redbox on 09:05, 23 January 11
32kb left if you take 16kb for the screen and 16kb for the ASIC page-in. Or 16kb left if you double buffer. Not much room there for compiled sprites or unrolled loops :)
You don't have to leave the ASIC paged in, so it hardly counts as losing 16K.
Quote from: andycadley on 12:17, 23 January 11
You don't have to leave the ASIC paged in, so it hardly counts as losing 16K.
Absolutely, but you can't leave anything in there that you want to put into the ASIC. :)
::) I never could imagine such a technical topic just by asking "maniac mansion?"
Quote from: jbaudrand on 10:15, 24 January 11
::) I never could imagine such a technical topic just by asking "maniac mansion?"
Isn't a forum such a wonderful thing.
Anything that sparks a debate, no matter what tangent it goes off at, is a good thing for a community like the CPC :)
http://picasaweb.google.com/dadcezgs/AmstradCPC#5523478771345974946 (http://picasaweb.google.com/dadcezgs/AmstradCPC#5523478771345974946)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_u2camLVKn_E/TKdWrYp85qI/AAAAAAAAAIM/zLl0PljQG6E/EGAENHANCED_TO_CPC.PNG)
Dadman seem to did this.
Quote from: MacDeath on 05:56, 28 January 11
http://picasaweb.google.com/dadcezgs/AmstradCPC#5523478771345974946 (http://picasaweb.google.com/dadcezgs/AmstradCPC#5523478771345974946)
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_u2camLVKn_E/TKdWrYp85qI/AAAAAAAAAIM/zLl0PljQG6E/EGAENHANCED_TO_CPC.PNG)
Dadman seem to did this.
it is a mock up.
I'm going to get a picture of farcry and convert it to cpc+ picture.
Maybe I could pretend it was real :laugh:
Think CPC+, first person shooter.....
Macdeath has had to go for a cold shower :laugh:
Well we all know there exist "Doom" for CPC+, don't we?
(http://cpc-live.com/doom_cpc.gif)
Quote from: Devilmarkus on 10:40, 28 January 11
Well we all know there exist "Doom" for CPC+, don't we?
(http://cpc-live.com/doom_cpc.gif)
Next, Macdeath will be asking how he can clean his keyboard ;)
Quote from: arnoldemu on 10:27, 28 January 11
it is a mock up.
I think this type of games could be possible in CPC (same DevilMarkus's Elvira) but the scroll need be optimized (or even supressed) to leave the enough ram free for the rest of code. Even this game is harder than Elvira as it needs the animation of the player...
Of course it is a mockup... never said otherwise... :-\
and ok this is zakMacKracken and not Maniac Mansion... I think (is it ? can't remember...)
Fun thing with those old Scummgames...
They ysed 160x200x16 special PC modes...
CGA on TV (NTSC ?) or TandyGA or even bad EGA...
This mean those can be directly ported graphically on a good old CPC...
the only problem may be the CPC's lack of grey (only one while even CGA16/EGA palette has 2...)
But this is not a real problem.
Wasn't the cga 320x200?
In any case it shouldn't be a difficult conversion...
Quote from: robcfg on 17:49, 28 January 11
Wasn't the cga 320x200?
In any case it shouldn't be a difficult conversion...
Right, CGA has three modes:
- 320 × 200 pixel, 4 colors, one can be choosen free, three are fixed
- 640 × 200 pixel, 2 colors, one chooseable, one not
- 160 x 200 pixel, 16 colors, only for composite monitors (no BIOS support)
So CPC is a bit superior! 27 colors instrad of 16! And nothing fixed ;)
Plus the various custom CGA...
Amstrad PC1512 could get a kool 640x200x16 (fixed CGA palette)
Tandy could also into a 16 coloured CGA.
EGA could do 320x200x16 (fixed CGA palette) but the awesome 640x350x16/64 was never used... :'(
Some of those custom pseudo CGA could then get a 160x200x16 mode, like CPC... (Tandy...)
But yeah, most of time the only colour you could change on CGA was the black... ??? WTF ?
CGA could have been far better with a real choice of 4 colours amongst 16...
But hey, it was almost the very first colour display...
Just too bad its flawn sticked so long.
Because IBM set the standard...not Amstrad (grrrrr)
We all see Amstrad CPC as a 16colours computer but it is actually what CGA should have been...
IBM was such a bunch of douches.
http://members.chello.at/theodor.lauppert/computer/cga.htm (http://members.chello.at/theodor.lauppert/computer/cga.htm)
http://members.chello.at/theodor.lauppert/games/ega.htm (http://members.chello.at/theodor.lauppert/games/ega.htm)
There a very cool site with very good explanations on CGA, EGA...
Also some 8 bit stuffs...
http://members.chello.at/theodor.lauppert/games/pf-cpc.htm (http://members.chello.at/theodor.lauppert/games/pf-cpc.htm)
http://members.chello.at/theodor.lauppert/games/pf-c64.htm (http://members.chello.at/theodor.lauppert/games/pf-c64.htm)
http://members.chello.at/theodor.lauppert/games/pf-zx.htm (http://members.chello.at/theodor.lauppert/games/pf-zx.htm)
A very interesting site... as I said.
QuoteThink CPC+, first person shooter.....
Actualy a good
Xybots port could be that awesome...
Anèyway, games like King's quest, maniac mansion, zakmackracken or leisure suit larry were in 160x200x16 composite-CGA modes...
So even the EGA version uses 160x200x16 graphics...
so they may be ported graphically directly (and of course upgraded... good palette good...)... for CPC.
(http://www.hampa.ch/pce/pics/ibmpc-apps/pce-cga-lsl1-2.png)
(http://www.hampa.ch/pce/pics/ibmpc-apps/pce-ega-lsl1.png)
But other things could be good to port...
(http://www.hampa.ch/pce/pics/ibmpc-apps/pce-cga-populous.png)
Look, a Mode1 Populous... ;)
Quote from: MacDeath on 23:08, 28 January 11
So even the EGA version uses 160x200x16 graphics...
That explains why I always thought it was so CPC-like...!
Quote from: Devilmarkus on 10:40, 28 January 11
(http://cpc-live.com/doom_cpc.gif)
Amagad , blasphemy !
That shows how CPC+ is powerfull as an Amiga is not able to run it without a lot of ram and additional hardware :laugh:
Quote from: redbox on 14:58, 29 January 11
That explains why I always thought it was so CPC-like...!
Right, and in addition the CPC always had extra signals for R, G and B. So it's picture is brilliant (compare it to c64 :'( ). And EGA was indeed the first gfx adapter that also had separated R, G and B signals. But CPC was still better, because it uses analogue signals and not TTL (that is a difference). Hardware freaks would agree ;)
Quote from: TFM/FS on 21:24, 29 January 11
But CPC was still better, because it uses analogue signals and not TTL (that is a difference). Hardware freaks would agree ;)
Is this because the analogue signals create a 'warmer' picture?
TTL signals only have two states, on and off so TTL RGB can only display 8 fixed colours, Analogue signals range from 0v to 1volt (I think) and can display a much larger range of colours.
QuoteRight, and in addition the CPC always had extra signals for R, G and B. So it's picture is brilliant (compare it to c64 (http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/Smileys/akyhne/cry.gif) ). And EGA was indeed the first gfx adapter that also had separated R, G and B signals. But CPC was still better, because it uses analogue signals and not TTL (that is a difference). Hardware freaks would agree (http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/Smileys/akyhne/wink.gif)
Yes but no...
EGA could technically display 640x350x16/64 while CPC was 160x200x16/27...EGA with 512K ram easily...
EGA superior, no contest...
Quote from: MacDeath on 06:55, 30 January 11
Yes but no...
EGA could technically display 640x350x16/64 while CPC was 160x200x16/27...EGA with 512K ram easily...
EGA superior, no contest...
Yes, but no...
CPC can use 208 * 288 (16), or if I go to the limits, even: 832 * 288 (2), using interlace, it will be even 832 * 572 (2). Which is not that bad..
But you missed the point here a bit, the CPC has analogue R,G,B signals (wires) while EGA is still just TTL (lesser quality).
Further the CPC monitor has this fabolous hardware antializing function ;)
Quote from: TFM/FS on 19:29, 31 January 11
Further the CPC monitor has this fabolous hardware antializing function ;)
I never stop enjoying this - both as an argument and as a fact ;)
Quote from: Gryzor on 17:29, 06 February 11
I never stop enjoying this - both as an argument and as a fact ;)
;D ... and for people who don't like it, there are still greeny screenies ;)
Quote from: TFM/FS on 03:01, 07 February 11
;D ... and for people who don't like it, there are still greeny screenies ;)
I've never actually seen a green screen monitor. There was a guy at school who had one and he wasn't to pleased.
I have 3 greenies! *proud* 8)
QuoteI have 3 greenies! *proud*
Then you're a strange person...
I have one and I am ashamed... :-[
:) so for concluding this amazing thread:
"maniac mansion" is do able on CPC but with a serious re-work/more suitable version of scumm engine, the interface based on word will be not easily readable, and some people got green tubes, and that's pretty strange: they are proud of it.
Later SCUMM engines did have far less words...
Monkey island do have like 9 action words...I guess sort of.
This is actually a simplification.
LOOM even have only a few spells and not many real varied actions.
Quote from: MacDeath on 12:10, 08 February 11
Then you're a strange person...
I have one and I am ashamed... :-[
The phenomene is: When you visit ebay Germany, you'll find many CPC with greenies.
They are sold much cheaper than CPC's without a monitor.... (Really funny!)
So I bought once 3 CPC incl. greenies on ebay.
Thats it ;)
(I bought 2 more, too, but I told the seller he can throw the greenies into northern sea... :D )
Quotebut I told the seller he can throw the greenies into northern sea...
Oh no you didn't !!!
There is no thing as polluting for the environment as a monitor... don't throw them into mother nature !!! >:(
Quote from: MacDeath on 22:59, 08 February 11
Oh no you didn't !!!
There is no thing as polluting for the environment as a monitor... don't throw them into mother nature !!! >:(
Well they build a CPC-reef now... Full of life!
Wonderfull !!! First you guys are going to use up all ressources and then you come crawling back and beg for an old monitor... Pfff!!!
Quote from: TFM/FS on 23:12, 08 February 11
Wonderfull !!! First you guys are going to use up all ressources and then you come crawling back and beg for an old monitor... Pfff!!!
Green screen is not a resource! It's more like ebola.
Quote from: Devilmarkus on 23:16, 08 February 11
Green screen is not a resource! It's more like ebola.
Bioweapons!!! Sure just put it in the North sea!! Grumpf!!! Humans!!!!!!
Quote from: Devilmarkus on 23:08, 08 February 11
Well they build a CPC-reef now... Full of life!
I could offer you two greenies to extend the reef. Do you need them? ;D
Quote from: villain on 20:28, 09 February 11
I could offer you two greenies to extend the reef. Do you need them? ;D
Better save them! They are really good for coding! Better than any emulator ;)
Quote from: TFM/FS on 20:40, 09 February 11
Better save them! They are really good for coding! Better than any emulator ;)
I'm with you! is always better the real thing even if its all green!
there's nothing bad about green, can't go wrong when using the colour of nature. ;)
Also called the HULK monitor... the greener it is the more angry you get...
Quote from: MacDeath on 21:24, 09 February 11
Also called the HULK monitor... the greener it is the more angry you get...
Hey wait!!! This ape from WinApe throws a _Color_ Monitor. He never would do that to a Greeny Screeny ;)
Quote from: villain on 20:28, 09 February 11
I could offer you two greenies to extend the reef. Do you need them? ;D
now I want to see a cpc that can drive 4 green screen monitors and have an extended basic screen :laugh:
Just like my PC can.
Quote from: arnoldemu on 10:24, 10 February 11
now I want to see a cpc that can drive 4 green screen monitors and have an extended basic screen :laugh:
Just like my PC can.
Well I only can offer you my dual-core CPC 464 with 4 colour screens!
(http://cpc-live.com/cpc464_quadro_thumb.jpg) (http://cpc-live.com/cpc464_quadro.jpg)
:laugh:
Now you're playing with power!
Guys... back on topic?
There's a nice presentation by Ron Gilbert, the creator of Maniac Mansion, about the game:
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014732/Classic-Game-Postmortem-MANIAC (http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014732/Classic-Game-Postmortem-MANIAC)
Maybe it's worth a hint or two for you guys.
you may find this interesting:
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014732/Classic-Game-Postmortem-MANIAC (http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014732/Classic-Game-Postmortem-MANIAC)
personally i would have thought the c64 graphics would be easier to duplicate than the PC versions given the fact that the c64 is drawn with character set (watch the video) and is therefore unlikely to use it's greys whilst trying to generate a colourful backdrop.
Steve
Quote from: STE86 on 01:15, 29 March 11
you may find this interesting:
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014732/Classic-Game-Postmortem-MANIAC (http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014732/Classic-Game-Postmortem-MANIAC)
personally i would have thought the c64 graphics would be easier to duplicate than the PC versions given the fact that the c64 is drawn with character set (watch the video) and is therefore unlikely to use it's greys whilst trying to generate a colourful backdrop.
Steve
Aehm! The link is the same than the link from Grumler (Thanks to both of you here). But using the c64 gfx would be a shame! In this case just go and play it on a c64. The CPC should have its superior gfx in use. The only proper way is IMHO to draw it from scratch on the CPC.
The PC and C64 versions are a starting basis...
But the Amiga-Atari (were there ?) are perhaps a clever port choice (graphically...).
Anyway, the PC use a 160x200x16/16 mode... the "superCGA"...sort of or Half EGA...
the palette is just the CGA full palette (unless the composite CGA trick is used...) so the only thing the CPC lacks is a second grey... or the Brown, yet is quite possible to "cheat" a do without...