More bias on Retro Gamer...

[Gryzor]

@TFM : all their screenshots are taken on emulators, but I think they were having some difficulties with the ones they asked for. No idea what, since I took them within seconds...
   
@EgoTrip : coverage used to be fairer in the olden days. Now it's always speccy this, speccy that, with a bit of Commodore sprinkled on top. Even the BBC gets more coverage I think (no hard data). And yes, the CPC market *is* a lot smaller, of course, but that's no excuse for excluding CPC screenshots from an article on a game DEVELOPED ON THE FRIGGING CPC! It's not like they didn't have the space - four pages, 9 screenshots plus a selection of similar titles with yet more screens.
   
I will have to disagree with the argument about "only so many times they can cover the old formats". I mean, even they are saying they have only scratched the surface, and I think it's true. In my mind it's time for more in-depth articles. There are several articles that are few pages long and only skin-deep, like the Atari ST one a few issues back. It's not hard to come by material and new stuff to cover. Yes, I realise that it sounds logical to move forward, though I think they are going to slowly abandon their core audience to get to new one. In my mind, though (that's a personal opinion) newer "retro" platforms are not really retro, just... old. I mean, the games themselves... same old rehashed stuff. Why would I care about a game from the XBox era - it's the same as what we're playing today, only with lower specs. Whereas the 8- and 16-bit chapters were *really* different. Anyhow.
   
@seanb : well, I guess I might sell them at some point if anyone makes an interesting offer, though it'd probably be easier to offload them one by one...
   
@chinnyhill10  : With regards to shoehorning games in, I find the "Future Classics" section especially hillarious - just a sorry excuse for modern game coverage, and two-page spreads, too! Just ridiculous. Imagine a history magazine covering, say, the earthquake in Nepal because it'll be "future history"...
   
@AMSDOS  : scan it? There are PDFs you can get.

@Swainy : yes, you're right about Jones, which makes it all the more puzzling. I think he puts his personal preferences behind his editorial duties, as he should, but the whole thing ends up tipping towards the other side.

I'm still dreaming about the day RG does a decent presentation of the CPC - I think they've done two up to now, one several years back and one for the 464 last year, but they were both just fluff-up pieces, nothing new, nothing in depth.

[AMSDOS]

@AMSDOS  : scan it? There are PDFs you can get.

Hmmm, will that cost me much? Which Issues would you recommend?


Kinda deciding between that and that Ivory Backscratcher 

[seanb]

Guys, I'm not here to defend Retro Gamer but you do realize that Darren Jones (the editor of Retro Gamer) is a former CPC user/owner?


By the way, we interviewed him back in our 100th episode, in which he does talk about the Amstrad: Episode 100 – Your Gaming Past Re-Lived | Retro Asylum

Yes but he himself said he can't justify having an amstrad machine on the cover If I remember correctly.

I'm sure retro gamer wouldn't dare to put on any machine with an even smaller community than the cpc on the cover even though the cpc community doesn't seem that small to me.

If you're a retro gaming magazine based in the uk I would expect them to cover all machines.
Its not like having amstrad in the mag will poison it and turn people off buying it in the future. Wheres this market research that means it's bad to have amstrad in it?
Did they only interview speccy owners?

I have a games master mag from a few years ago that has a special on amstrad and from the sounds of it thats me than a publication dedicated to all old machines has done recently

[seanb]

@Gryzor good luck selling them one by one.
I have a shit tonne of old and not so old gaming, technological and rock magazines (music not the geological variety) for sale on ebay and it's slooow going unless you know somewhere else to sell them.

But if you decide to sell the megadrive special you already have an interested party

[Gryzor]

Its not like having amstrad in the mag will poison it and turn people off buying it in the future. Wheres this market research that means it's bad to have amstrad in it?

Oh, don't get me started. In the last few issues they ran a TWO PAGE spread about an online survey they had running - say your opinion, shape your magazine, blahblahblah. It got me excited - "finally, a questionnaire about the quality and content of the magazine? Let's go right now!". Turns out it was just a generic IP survey about general demographic data - how old you are, how much you make, what electronic equipment you're going to buy during the next year... disgusting.

Did they only interview speccy owners?

Years back I was frequenting the RG forum. I left because it turned out you couldn't mention the word Amstrad without speccy and c64 fanboys jumping in and starting flames. Really - you had great spectrum threads, great commodore threads and they were sailing along nicely, but the moment someone opened an Amstrad-related thread everyone from the other machines felt the need to jump in and trash it. They really have a complex like this. I even complained to Daran (I think) about it, arguing that it skews the perception of the audience because Amstrad fans will just not go through with it, but didn't even get a reply (surprise).

[AMSDOS]

Years back I was frequenting the RG forum. I left because it turned out you couldn't mention the word Amstrad without speccy and c64 fanboys jumping in and starting flames. Really - you had great spectrum threads, great commodore threads and they were sailing along nicely, but the moment someone opened an Amstrad-related thread everyone from the other machines felt the need to jump in and trash it. They really have a complex like this. I even complained to Daran (I think) about it, arguing that it skews the perception of the audience because Amstrad fans will just not go through with it, but didn't even get a reply (surprise).

[ot]
This started playing when I was reading your remarks which I thought was somewhat appropriate for them Spectrum, C64 persons.

Spoiler: ShowHide

[/ot]

[Carnivius]

They don't even sell the magazine in my town these days so I haven't even been able to browse it.

[seanb]

Years back I was frequenting the RG forum. I left because it turned out you couldn't mention the word Amstrad without speccy and c64 fanboys jumping in and starting flames. Really - you had great spectrum threads, great commodore threads and they were sailing along nicely, but the moment someone opened an Amstrad-related thread everyone from the other machines felt the need to jump in and trash it. They really have a complex like this. I even complained to Daran (I think) about it, arguing that it skews the perception of the audience because Amstrad fans will just not go through with it, but didn't even get a reply (surprise).

Maybe if I'm being cynical we've found part of the reason why they won't focus on amstrad

[Gryzor]

Oh, I'm sure about it. They're using the forum to gauge reaction and interests, so if part of the user base is driven out of it it will under-represented in the mag, too.

Also, if you cover a system people will start talking about it in the forum too - if not, they won't, so it's a circle...

[MacDeath]

Funnily, in the late 80's in french Magazines like "Joystick", there was close to no speccy/C64... very few... and a lot of CPC of course.
Domestic market can be a great thing and French devs would do very few "specC64" and more CPC...


anyway : best retro gaming magazines are actually old magazines from the era.



http://www.abandonware-magazines.org/affiche_mag.php?mag=30

[arnoldemu]

I did miss seeing CPC screenshots and reviews of CPC games, but it's not the reason I stopped.

I also enjoyed reading about old 80's arcade games, spectrum, c64, msx and other 80's computers.

The 16-bits and newer machines don't interest me. The content has repeated itself a bit and there is more coverage of the "newer" systems.

The first pages I always went to were the homebrew. Then I would look for articles that interested me about the older machines. I skip the newer machines generally.

I noticed there was plenty of CPC love it was mentioned a lot, that has faded a little.

[chinnyhill10]

Years back I was frequenting the RG forum. I left because it turned out you couldn't mention the word Amstrad without speccy and c64 fanboys jumping in and starting flames. Really - you had great spectrum threads, great commodore threads and they were sailing along nicely, but the moment someone opened an Amstrad-related thread everyone from the other machines felt the need to jump in and trash it. They really have a complex like this. I even complained to Daran (I think) about it, arguing that it skews the perception of the audience because Amstrad fans will just not go through with it, but didn't even get a reply (surprise).

Same reason I left as well. And the same old people sucking up and criticism of the mag being handled badly. Then they started publishing posts from the forums which meant even more sucking up. Entire thing was awful.


And lets be clear here, as should be quite obvious I have an interest in loads of machines not just the CPC. It's not just a CPC problem but a problem related to lots of machines. You going to see an MSX game on the cover? An Atari 8 bit? They believe there are only three 8 bit micros and worship the NES like it was actually of any relevance in the UK (for much of its life it wasn't).


Who cares about the Playstation or endless fluff pieces of the same games? We'll all do our own thing.

[chinnyhill10]

Oh, I'm sure about it. They're using the forum to gauge reaction and interests, so if part of the user base is driven out of it it will under-represented in the mag, too.

Surveying opinions of a self selected audience will always end well.......

[Gryzor]

@MacDeath : in Greece we had two major multi-format mags, Pixel and User (hm, Sprite too). They were all quite nicely balanced even though the CPC kicked ass in Greece...


@chinnyhill10 : THANK YOU!!! For some reason I did post about their ridiculous trend to publish stuff from the forum, saying essentially that if I want to read that I can go onto the forum, no need to waste space in the mag, and that it's purely ego stroking. Let me find it... Ah, here: http://www.retrogamer.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=50045 . Their reply was both mildly disrespectful and wrong,from the point of assessing feedback: we're not losing sales, so it's ok. In general they really don't handle criticism well - they always and only try to defend their decisions.


And you're right, the problem is not only with the CPC. I'd really, really love to read about lesser systems - and speaking of lesser systems, as you say, why the fuck does NES get the coverage it gets when Sega kicked its ass in Europe?


Going a bit further, their space filling has got atrocious. They waste so many pages on precisely zero content -like the two-page spread of "Is so-and-so- a gaming icon?" which consists of a small blurb on the left page about a developer and a full-page face photo on the other. There! Two pages of content taken care of, let's go for a pint!

[seanb]

Eurgh, don't get me started on the revised history of sega and ninty in Europe now that sega are out of the console making game but ninty aren't.

[chinnyhill10]

Eurgh, don't get me started on the revised history of sega and ninty in Europe now that sega are out of the console making game but ninty aren't.

Although at least the bonus is while Nintendo carts are fetching silly money due to being 'fashionable', Master System and Megadrive carts are far more reasonably priced to buy. So those of us who appreciate the Sega systems aren't having to pay through the nose to get games.

[cpc4eva]

Maybe they just didn't have a CPC to make screenshots on?

Bryce.

what they, Retro Gamer couldn't simply type into google images "amstrad cpc driller screenshots".

seriously Retro Gamer if you write that it was developed on a CPC6128 provide the screenshots from that machine.  A muti format mag is not just Amiga and speccy

[Gryzor]

Finished #141 last night. Even though it was better than others,I think I spent the least amount of time with it. I really think I'm not renewing my sub. A sad end...

[Xyphoe]

Ok, I'm going to be honest here but bearing in mind that some of Retro Gamer's writers are on or read this forum, also mindful that I've become friendly with Darran (the editor) over time as well (he featured my GX4000 collection in the magazine once, he took part in my big 30th anniversary video, etc).

I have to say for the last 12 months I've not been enjoying the magazine as much, and it really really pains me to say it. But I must stress *not as much* - ie I still love and enjoy the magazine and read at least a good 80% of it each month. I'm still a subscriber and I'm excited when it plops through my letter box. But it has felt there hasn't been as much Amstrad coverage, and the kind of articles I like (about arcade games, 80's computing generally, and the really killer interviews, etc) hasn't quite been the same.

However I'm one person out of many thousands, it's incredibly tough trying to please everyone in such a diverse range of readership. I feel sorry for the BBC Micro, Dragon32, Sam Coupe, etc rabid fans!! Imagine how they feel?!

The issue they're facing is falling circulation generally in the magazine market. And I think the mistake they're making is trying to appeal to an even broader range of readership to cope with it - with now covering Xbox/Playstation 2 etc, more international games, and shifting more towards 16-bit and away from 8-bit. What that causes is trying to please everyone but pleasing no-one.

Take it from me... now I can't tell you too much about what I do to make money (I like to keep these things private) but I run my own events company with a specialised night once a month. It's over a decade old now and still very successful whilst competing nights or even other nights trying to rip me off falling by the wayside in large numbers. The reason being is the night if for a specific genre of music (that still covers a wide range of stuff), but I stick to that and do not ever ever deviate into similar-ish genres to try and appeal to more people and increase attendance. I've been very stubborn about that. The other aforementioned nights did the exact opposite of me and they became very boring very quickly because it's "we've all heard this stuff before" and the gems of genre that you don't get to hear there's no space or time for them. The audience isn't there because they're at mine! And so they die off eventually.

Morale of the story - stick to what you do well and be stubborn about it. People will appreciate it, they will learn more about these machines and get interested in them - they will stick with you as long as you don't forget them.

My big annoyance with the magazine is when there is a feature say on a particular game that was across a wide number of platforms, and in the last year or two they seemed to have focussed on one or maybe two particular machines leaving the others out. Like the CPC. I'm left there shouting at the page going "WHAT ABOUT THE CPC VERSION!!" Or it gets a tiny mention. When there is a perfect chance to talk about the CPC version and they blow it, that's when I get annoyed. I don't mind when there's a specific feature on the Atari ST or Sam Coupe - that's fair enough.

Anyway I know it's very stressful for Darran, it's very hard work finding the right balance. The only feedback he seems to receive is negative which will get to you eventually. But then that's from people on the internet, which in reality is only a small percentage of the people that read the magazine and the rest are happy enough with it.

If you're going to complain, do so constructively and nicely. Make suggestions. I don't want him to eventually snap and say 'fuck it, I've had enough' because he's a huge CPC fan and over the many years has ensured balanced and fair coverage of the Amstrad even if it does feel over the last 12 months it has slipped.

[Gryzor]

Nicely expressed, mate.

I will disagree only with the fact that Darran gets only negative feedback, I really don't think that's the case; also, the fact that a small percentage of the readership complains certainly doesn't mean the rest are happy. Both these points have to do with the fact that one of market's principles is that few unhappy people will complain. Most will resign to the status quo or leave quietly. And this is something that the people over at RG don't seem to understand. They also, very mistakingly so, equate the feedback they get from the forum with the overall opinion of the userbase. Totally incorrect.

I haven't seen much not-nice and non-constructive criticism, to tell you the truth. I haven't seen anyone trashing this or that - but even if that were the case nobody should snap. You have to look into this 'trashing' and find its root causes instead of whining "oh fuck it".

It's really, really strange how nobody has answered to this specific piece of criticism we're raising here, further convincing me that they're really don't handle criticism well.

[robcfg]

I'm quite enjoying the Atari 40 years special that was at my office.

In my case, specially since I have a 1 year old kid, I have no time to read magazines nor place to store them.

[TFM]

Most people can't deal with critics at all, they feel personally attacked. Also constructive critics and sandwhich tactics does not help much.

[zeropolis79]

I only collect select issues these days - the last issue being the Lemmings special.. IIRC, they ignored the CPC version.

[TMR]

The first pages I always went to were the homebrew.

That bit is written by a C64 fanboy!!1one

what they, Retro Gamer couldn't simply type into google images "amstrad cpc driller screenshots".

Not really... freelancers have to provide screenshots they've taken when submitting articles, web finds aren't allowed and the editorial team use a selection of what they've been sent. Sometimes the freelancers don't send in enough, others they send too much and the people doing the layout take their pick.

They also, very mistakingly so, equate the feedback they get from the forum with the overall opinion of the userbase. Totally incorrect.

It's the feedback they get via email or on rare occasions through the post that tends to be given more weight and that's the best way to make a point as well.

[TFM]

I'm curious if the RG team actually know which computers are used by their customers.