Bit of an oddity I've been wondering about for years, but Activision's Amstrad port of Rampage...
The main song that plays throughout the game is actually the third level's music from Trojan..
Have a listen...
Rampage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oqKD-RyOd8
Trojan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5waSmDjYxPY&feature=youtu.be&t=3m4s
What's really strange was Trojan was never ported to home computers, Elite did get the rights and a unfinished Spectrum port exists, but nothing on an Amstrad version.
Can anyone shine any light on this?
That's weird. To me that tune so perfectly fit Rampage I had no idea it may have come from a completely different game. I had played Trojan a few times over the years on MAME and other retro thingies never far enough to reach stage 3 and hear that tune.
I don't know anything, but, something to consider:
IndieGameMusic.com
Lots of tracks, that are sold again and again and again, used in many different games.
Maybe that's what happened here too.
At least lots of music nowadays are used in many different productions.
Yeah, I guess Rampage was released first, Trojan a bit later. So Trojan stole the song. Not the other way around.
Trojan / Tatakai no Banka was released in 1986 in Japan...
Rampage on CPC in 1987.
So yeah. Rampage was probably a RipOff.
Sweet nice tune anyway.
I can't see a way a Japanese Video game musician would have known about Amstrad CPC, then the Rampage version on it, then his tune rippoff.
No internet to bring the info to them and Japaneses would suck at international copyright enforcement for such minor details..
Trojan wasn't the most well known Arcade game, reminds me a lot about ST/Amiga Ivanhoe (Ocean) that was perhaps quite inspired by Trojan on many aspects.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoL-fmOZs1o (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoL-fmOZs1o#ws)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK8799h2q3g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK8799h2q3g#)
Trojan looks a lot like some Double Dragon rippoff on many graphical aspects as well...
Was probably using the same sort of 8bit based Arcade boards.
http://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=789&gid=52#52 (http://www.system16.com/hardware.php?id=789&gid=52#52)
yes, was a Capcom Z80 based Board... any CPC port ?
QuoteCPU : Z80 @ 6 MHz
Sound CPU : 2 x Z80 @ 4 MHz
Sound Chip : 2 x YM2203 @ 1.5 MHz (+ MSM5205 @ 384 kHz on some games)
seriously, does a machine need 2x Z80 to run sounds ? with also 2x soundchips ?
Funnily : the ST Rampage version has a different music.
Out of topic :
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDCcd3Gc_hU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDCcd3Gc_hU#)
QuoteVulgus
1984
CPU : Z80 @ 4 MHz
Sound CPU : Z80 @ 3 MHz
Sound Chip : 2 x AY-3-8910 @ 1.5 MHz
Res : 224x256
Ok, it is basically directly portable on an Amstrad 6128PLUS + PlayCity... any volunteer ? :laugh:
Ramage was out 1986, that's what the CPC's title screen tells.
Was often the copyright for original game / license.
At CPCpowder they say it was released in 1987 on CPC and we know those ports wouldn't take more than a few month to be produced.
Also most test at CPcpowder are from (early) 1988 actually.
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=staff&lenom=Nick%20JONES (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=staff&lenom=Nick%20JONES)
anyway, is anyone still in contact with Nick jones ?
www.youtube.com/watch?v=St3EAVAIYX8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St3EAVAIYX8#)
we can see copyrights :
1986 = Bally Midway (arcade original)
1987 = Activision (license to port it on computers)
so yeah...
Rampage on CPC was done well IMHO. But if cpcpower tells it then it must be true.[nb]like if they show it in television it must be true too. ;) [/nb]
haha of course I don't say it has to be true but seems a bit verified.
CPC version doesn't have a very detailed menu after all... they only put the bare minimum.
Mode0 Games of this graphical quality on CPC were quite rare in 1986... more often in 1987-1988 actually. or French or Spanish, more often (Bactron, Army moves... 1986...)
but yeah : Rampage CPC is great, one of the rare 3-player arcade game actually.
At Mobygame they also indicate 1987 for c64 version and even 1988 for Amstrad CPC version... like you know, the c64 from which CPC graphics were ported...
Rampage for Amstrad CPC (1988) - MobyGames (http://www.mobygames.com/game/cpc/rampage)
Rampage is tight on memory, they didn't have enough spare for a good mode 0 font, so they used the system font in mode 1.
serious.
Oh friends, you know this tfm. My heart beats for CPC and Z80. This a bit like having a favorite football team. ;)
It would be great if someone was able to allow the food to give you extra energy , in this.As I don't think it works as it should , It is a great game other than that.
Quote from: arnoldemu on 19:15, 25 April 15
Rampage is tight on memory, they didn't have enough spare for a good mode 0 font, so they used the system font in mode 1.
serious.
Yeah, already noticed that, it's quite ugly.
For me, the song is taken from the Spectrum Trojan port which was cancelled, and as the game needed a music, they found that it would fit quite well.
That sounds like it could make sense. Oh this Speccy ports :laugh:
Well how much memory do we need to a MODE 0 font. Easy does it...
- 8 Bytes for every character (16 for a nicer font using colors!)
- 40 characters (26 letters, 10 numbers, hmmm.... 4 special characters only like "." or "!")
So that would be.... either 320 or 640 bytes... but in at 48 KB system (16 KB V-RAM!) this can get tight of course.
Quote from: remax on 22:21, 25 April 15
Yeah, already noticed that, it's quite ugly.
For me, the song is taken from the Spectrum Trojan port which was cancelled, and as the game needed a music, they found that it would fit quite well.
It's definetely not the one used in the Spectrum port, as well... here it is!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-6uJkej6Aw&feature=youtu.be&t=1m35s (https://youtu.be/e-6uJkej6Aw?t=1m35s)
Sliiightly off-topic, but as far as Rampage-styled games and great tunes go:
Amstrad Music Collection - Ramparts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6WvnnELaCQ#)
Quote from: Larry Bundy on 10:35, 26 April 15
It's definetely not the one used in the Spectrum port, as well... here it is!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-6uJkej6Aw&feature=youtu.be&t=1m35s (https://youtu.be/e-6uJkej6Aw?t=1m35s)
You have to take into account that Spectrum is not pitched the same as Amstrad...
Anyway, on this video, i don't see any evidence that it's not the same song...
Quote from: Larry Bundy on 10:35, 26 April 15
It's definetely not the one used in the Spectrum port, as well... here it is!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-6uJkej6Aw&feature=youtu.be&t=1m35s (https://youtu.be/e-6uJkej6Aw?t=1m35s)
Welcome to the forums Larry!! :D
I would guess then...
Nick Jones was tasked with doing the Trojan conversion music, heard level 3 on the arcade machine and went 'ok that's ace', Trojan was axed (anyone know why???) and instead re-used it for the Rampage conversion because he didn't want it to go to waste, was probably rushed for time and hoped nobody would notice since Trojan wasn't a popular coin-op. That's my guess.
could be a simplified version, using only 2 channels for music to let rooms for sound FX... and of course the frequency difference would alter the CPC version into something more deep.
Quote from: Xyphoe on 19:07, 26 April 15
Welcome to the forums Larry!! :D
I would guess then...
Nick Jones was tasked with doing the Trojan conversion music, heard level 3 on the arcade machine and went 'ok that's ace', Trojan was axed (anyone know why???) and instead re-used it for the Rampage conversion because he didn't want it to go to waste, was probably rushed for time and hoped nobody would notice since Trojan wasn't a popular coin-op. That's my guess.
Hey there Xy! ;D
My guess for the longest time was left over assets from an abandoned Amstrad port of Trojan, put into a new game to save time/money ALA The ThunderCats theme in Bomb Jack II on the C64.
Though those kind of corner cutting/underhandedness you'd expect from Elite or US Gold, quite surprising from Activision.
Quote from: Larry Bundy on 01:01, 27 April 15
Hey there Xy! ;D
My guess for the longest time was left over assets from an abandoned Amstrad port of Trojan, put into a new game to save time/money ALA The ThunderCats theme in Bomb Jack II on the C64.
Though those kind of corner cutting/underhandedness you'd expect from Elite or US Gold, quite surprising from Activision.
I would actually doubt it's Activision's fault. Most musicians were freelancers apart from a few at Ocean, I would guess he was under a tight deadline and Activision were being dicks to him then figured they'd never know!
Pure speculation though!
Wonder if any of the Retro Gamer team is in touch with Nick Jones?
Activision had its fair share of crappy ports or cheap prods on CPC.
Of course they did so many games that many were great, others weren't...
Nick Jones ?
T.A.C.G.R. - Nick Jones Interview (http://tacgr.emuunlim.com/interviews/nickjones.html)
is that the same one ?
I mean, Nick Jones is such a "generic" name that there may be many of them...
:laugh:
According to the interview, he provided many sounds to others, so some disks / things may have ended up into other prods... his list is far from complete and many databases like CPcpowers are far from accurate or complete on the due credits.
is this him too ?
http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId (http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId),116560/
Brit-merican can't use real names to save their own life... I mean, Bill instead of William, Jeff instead of Jefferson, Nick instead of Nicholas... you really never respect the complete formal names... ;D
CPCRULEZ ★ AMSTRAD CPC ★ Nick Jones{UK} (http://cpcrulez.fr/auteur-nick_jones.htm)
recent one :
Nick Jones | Retro Gamer (http://www.retrogamer.net/profiles/developer/nick-jones/)
could find some at C64.com...
C64.COM - To Protect and Preserve (http://www.c64.com/)
http://www.c64.com/gt_display_interview.php?interview=30 (http://www.c64.com/gt_display_interview.php?interview=30)
C64 games :
Lemon - Commodore 64, C64 Games, Reviews & Music! (http://www.lemon64.com/?mainurl=http%3A//www.lemon64.com/games/list.php%3Fcoder%3DNick+Jones)
I would like to say it is not lurking, just gathering interesting infos about a guy who made history.... and C64 games... >:(