Patching existing games

[ukmarkh]

That's a shame because , as speecy version that is the same except speed, enemy patterns on CPC version are close to original.
Have a particular emulator to recommend for me ?

To be a bit off topic but not really, if you like R-Type , i'd recommend the PC Engine CD² version that is exceptionnal (maybe better than arcarde !)

For the speccy, the best is www.spectaculator.com

The PC Engine version isn't as good as the Amiga version, never mind the arcade. But yes, it's good... apart from the up and down scrolling, really off putting, apparantly down to the PCEngines resolution.

[fano]

Hum that my be discussed if you take count about great cut scenes and CD sound  (and one extra boss)

OMG ! Speccy version was a disturbing experience , that was like playing CPC R-Type at a correct frame rate (3VBL/image ?) and some extra colors, except of that this is exactly the same  (except sound)

As i saw , the MSX version looks a lot as a Spectrum like w/ 16 colors tiles...

[DARKGATE]

  Bye from an italian fan of AMSTRAD CPC, i am back, i read this post, want tell the games wich i think can be path graphically, "IS POSSIBLE?"

1) IMPOSSIBLE MISSION  (the amstrad version has terrible graphic) an version with graphic more detailed is possible?
2) PACMANIA (only a colour) (more colors is possible?)
3) IMPOSSIBLE MISSION  2 (is good, but has terrible fx sound)
4) Bubble bobble (Music when play, and more colors)
5) STRIDER ( is fantastic, but more colors?)

P.s. please boys, i search the editor for made the levels of GAUNTLET game for AMSTRAD, i have see wich is avaiable "FREE" for SPECTRUM VERSION", but for AMSTRAD?
Thank you.

OPS  another question.
PREHISTORIK 1 & 2 AND SUPER CAULDRON have the CASSETTE VERSION or only DISK VERSION?
I have the CASSETTE VERSION of TITUS THE FOX, .

[Gryzor]

Pacmania was an excellent conversion... if it could be made any better it'd be even awesomer!

I think Impossible Mission sucks overall, not much hope to fix this one...

Bubble Bobble has been discussed, I think; for me, the mechanics are there, if we could substitute the sprites it'd be great!

[ukmarkh]

Gryzor: First of all, why can't I quote reply to your posts?

Anyway, Pacmania as you rightly put it is an excellent conversion... it's a shame Pac-man isn't coloured in yellow and the ghosts in their respective colours.

About Impossible Mission, do you think its just sucks on the CPC? Or a bad game in general across all systems inc the C64??

As for the CPC version of Bubble Bobble, the design might look ok, but there are lots of little touches and level bonuses missing. The Speccy and C64 versions really show the CPC version up for the lazy conversion it is. 

[DARKGATE]

  Impossible mission is fantastic on C64, but a remix graphic on AMSTRAD is the right solution, i have finished impossible mission (amstrad version) wich is more difficult of Commodore 64 version.

I have see a Demo of BUBBLE BOBBLE for amstrad with new graphic (bubble bobble 4 demo)
is F A N T A S T I C !!!   .

Please know if PREHISTORIK 1 -2 and SUPER CAULDRON have a cassette version?
ops and THE HURLEMENTS, NIGHT HUNTER?
I have only a cpc 464 with cassette.

[Gryzor]

Hmmm! For some reason I had never played Hurlements... looks interesting.

The BB4 demo looked fine indeed (found here btw).

I think Prehistorik and Super Cauldron were 128k only, and thus disk-only...

[Gryzor]

Gryzor: First of all, why can't I quote reply to your posts?

Can't you? Is it only with my posts or in general? Weird...

Anyway, Pacmania as you rightly put it is an excellent conversion... it's a shame Pac-man isn't coloured in yellow and the ghosts in their respective colours.

And to think I never got into Pacman - but Pacmania really got me!

About Impossible Mission, do you think its just sucks on the CPC? Or a bad game in general across all systems inc the C64??

Actually, I had Saboteur in mind when I spoke. But still, Saboteur is not that nice... the c64 version is sleek like the 5eme axe on the CPC. I think IM suffers from the overall game design - very hard etc - rather than aesthetically...

[khisanth]

Bubble Bobble is fine even though its missing a lot of things. I am a HUGE bubble bobble fan and I played that to death, so its an acceptable conversion. C64 one was much better annoyingly. Then you have the gameboy version which SCROLLS THE SCREEN around!!!

so it could do with a dash of colour and definitely put the secret rooms/bonuses in.

[mr_lou]

Ladies and Gentlemen.... please, let's just get one thing straight here...

The CPC version of Bubble Bobble was most definitely not acceptable!!!!. Having played that game constantly on the real arcade machine, I was so unbelievably disappointed by the CPC version when it came out. There's so much missing I can't believe it, and it's slow and it's just a plain sad port that doesn't do the CPC justice at all!

If the CPC Bubble Bobble 4 ever gets done, it sure looks like it'll be the Bubble Bobble port the CPC deserves, so I'm still hoping for that one to be finished.

[mahlemiut]

The C64 version of Bubble Bobble is about the best of a bad bunch, really.  The gameplay in general is reasonably good, but pales in comparison to the Japanese produced MSX2 version.

Must check out the Amiga version of Bubble Bobble, see how that compares to the original PC version, and the 16/32-bit Japanese-produced versions (namely X68000 and FM-Towns).

EDIT: Had a quick try of the Amiga version, seems to be similar to the original PC version, but with somewhat nicer graphics.  Unfortunately, some of the gameplay mechanics seem to have be ripped straight out of the CPC version...  Most notably, the complete inability to push or be pushed by bubbles.

[arnoldemu]

Pacmania was an excellent conversion... if it could be made any better it'd be even awesomer!

Agreed. Markus had a look at the graphics for me. They are mode 2. I've not yet looked to see if there is enough ram to make them mode 1 or mode 0, so at the moment it's another that is going to take some work

[Gryzor]

Concerning BB, I used to play it on my ST back in the day with my girlfriend for hours, and I remember it being very good. But I haven't tried it since, is it the same as the Amiga version?

Still not sure about Pacmania in mode 1 or 2... it'd probably lose a lot of definition, *unless* the Plus palette was used for some nice shading and dithering, if possible?

[MacDeath]

=Bubble bobble : I didn't have it at the time. As sayd in wikipedia, most ports didn't feature the bonus system from arceade, especially computer ports. Also the Graphics on CPC don't seem very well finished...
It was a good game because of the fun concept, the 2 player mode and the fact the CPC version vasen"t that bad, yet not that awesome.
Sprites are very...small.

=Saboteur : I used to like the series...
But it remains far too Speccyported to be well corrected in my opinion.

Many speccy games were designed to deal with colour clashes and the only 2 colours per character limitation.
It imply Codes technics or even graphix design.

As a result many Speccy games are monochromatic for the best ones...
Or else many of them do have transparent sprites...

Another way to deal with colourclashes was to use unmasked sprites (see R-type) but the result is so shitty on an amstrad...

Look at Enduro Racer or some other Speccy ports (Bionic shitmmando).
Your sprite take the colour from the background (Enduro Racer when you jump...as exemple).



It's also the case in Saboteur.
Designed to deal with the shitty Speccy Graphical specs.

As a result, your "ninja" is black+ background's colour...even on CPC. and this si so bad !

Oh, and Saboteur is so sluggish and slow motionned...


On the other hand, many games were only designed to run on 464 so no use of extra memory and the less loading possible (as tapes were somewhat...you know).

So as we are in a modern era of CPC power, we may more easily put loading on cpc games (even with 464 configuration) as it is now possible to run games from CD or MP3 players, enabling a faster run of datas...

If you can put more loading, then you don't have to put the full games in RAM, only the current level for example)

And it's even better if you aim a 6128 version.


A good thing would be to reverse decipher games known for being "well done" speccy ports and the speccy version just to see the differences between the 2 versions.

Candidates may be :
--Shadow of the beast : not that impressive game, but graphism was redone on CPC to use well the 4 colours.
--Deflektor ?
--Strider : I found it not that good, re-use the Stryder 2 engine would be even better indeed. But it was a bit recoloured concerning sprites, as the background remains in mono-colour...
--Head over heels (maybe not that speccy ported in fact...seems to be more some kind of cross dev indeed...C64 and MSX were even more speccyported than CPC)

Many poor speccy ports on CPC featured pseudo colour attributes (you clearly see the square characters) and in fact emulated a speccy graphical specificity to read properly (well, not that properly) the 1bit coded graphics in a 2bit coded graphical mode (Mode1) just because Graphist's time was expensives and they didn't care.

Such a speccy emulation was a total waste of CPU.

Also, it is said the reduction of the screen was used to raise the CPU power but...well...are you sure ?
It was mostly done so the Speccy codes and graphics would be unchanged on Amstrad.
In many case the very small screen could imply more scrollings as each jump would put you out of screen.
A game with a bigger area allows to scroll a bit less in my opinion.

So is it a real gain to reduce the screen size ?

--Pacmania :
I talk about it on my CPCwiki's page.


It may be an easy one but graphics are 1bit coded.

Not "mode2" but mode1 coded in 1 bit.
This explains why it get sluggish.
Of course Datas use less space, but as you must get a "Speccy attributes emulator" the CPU suffers just as on R-Type.

A simple try would be to remove the "speccy emulator" part and get it running in mode2...just to see how it runs.

As a result you have even faulty pseudo character attribute's artefacts.
I did a mock up and yes, even a crudely coloured CPC version would be awesome.

Also this game is a bit sluggish. But as it include raster colour change (for the HUD) it may be easily improoved only by removing this, we would get a less coloured games, but hey, the real game is monochromatic in fact...

pacmania was so good mostly because of the real damn good music and interesting gameplay and cute graphics (despite B&W...)

It is perhaps the easiest candidate for a good improuvement even if we keep the Mode1 on.

Just getting Ghosts in one colour, Pacman and pills in yellow and background in a 3rd colour (black being the 4th colour) Would be enough.

Oh, the raster colour change on a monochromatic game...typical.

--Black tiger :
was like pacmania, exept pacmania remainded fun.
Would it be better just if we get rid of that awfull and useless raster colour chage ?
Also to put sound effects instyead of this bad music, would it be less consuming ? (maybe not)

--The way of the tiger
very well animated (maybe too many frames...) so far too slow.
And quite speccyed... sprites use background's colours if I remember well.
Maybe a lot of possibilities to fasten it a bit and use colours better...with a 6128+ version it may become awesome as it is a 464 designed speccy port.


Other good candidate : Bombjack series.

--Bombjack 1 & 2 were damn good games, yet the background picture was often...sort of..well...badly executed by a shitty graphist.
As the games are already perfect in gameplay and speed, just to re-do the tiles would be enough and easy.
Also using the PLUS 4096 palette totally awesome.

So we must differenciate :
--CPC game that were allready good an properly coded : just need new features (intro, musics) and graphics re-done or new level designs...(such as bombajck, or what we did on rick Dangerous), or a Plus add-on.

--Speccy ports : which need a heavier job, but this may be interesting even so slightly improuve those.
If we can find a proper way to re-code the graphics or put to trashbin the useless parts...methods are to be found.

A proper way to put real Scrollings in non-scrolling games may be great (Wizball, Greenberet or Gryzor anyone ? even Skweek...).

Also some games series were like Strider.

--1st game was an awfull speccy port.
--then second one was corrected and better, despite being basically the same game.

As a result it may be better to re-use the best engine to do a better version of the other games.
Exemples :
--Strider of course. Strider 2 is in Mode0. it even feature extra gameplay such as the pistol...just to remove this may allow more room then. and as a result we may have a strider 1 in Mode0. I should try strider2 again to see if it would fit.
--Renegade : er...different case. Renegade 3 was badly speccyed while target renegade wasn't. yet target renegade feature bad graphics while renegade 1 was awesome, yet 1 player only. But Target renegade engine would be good if properly reverse-analised.
--Space Harrier 1 & 2 : the 1st one is shitty thx to bad monsters. the second one is a lot better. re-use space harrier2 engine to re-do the first one then.

[Gryzor]

Wow, what a post... what are you going to redo next, then?

[MacDeath]

My room's paint...

[fano]

My Wife 

[Gryzor]

Tsk, tsk! What, a multiplayer upgrade?

[Cholo]

Bubble Bobble:
Bought this game back in the day (horrible expensive) and wasnt really dissapointed at first. Of cause after playing for a while you quickly realise that a couple of small things really degraded the enjoyment of playing the game. A bit sad as it would have been so easy for the programmer to fix these tiny flaws.
- Continues: most people probably dont know this but the game does have a set no of continues for each player. But for some reason the "do you wanna continue?" screen and countdown is missing. A bit hard pressing "continue player 1" in less than zero seconds isnt it? But if you play the game as 2 player you suddenly realise that the continues ARE in there (2-3 for each player) but you can only "continue" if the other player is alive.
So instead of having a fun time playing alone or with a friend (guess what happens if you both loose your last life at the same time) you spend way to much time keeping an eye on your lives because you are worried about hitting the continue buttons on time (key 1 and 2 for player 1 and 2).
Fix: would it really have been so hard to have a 10 second delay so that you could continue like in any other game? What is the whole idea of having continues in a game if you dont give people the option to use them, lol?
-The reset button: Having a "reset back to menu"-button isnt a bad thing really of cause. Some games have them and some dont. Placing the "reset"- key badly is not a good thing tho. Anyways picture this: You have been playing for a good 45 mins with a friend and suddenly your friend yells "NOW" .. in a quick snake-bite like move your left hand strikes out at the "1" key to get some continues .. but instead you get the main menu in your face. Odd as you was no where near the Esc key, but perhaps the "1" key slightly grazed the Esc key when pressed? Or perhaps the "2" key grazed the "1" who grazed the "Esc"? Seriously this must have happened a good 25+ time at least.
Fix: wouldnt had taken many bytes to make a "quit? then press Y" check before exiting, and so save a LOT of player some misery.
-Speed: the game starts slow but later gets really really fast. So first lvls of the game are pretty much WAY to slow where you sit around waiting for the bonus items, and the later lvls you get owned because the baddies moved at 5x speed and killed you before you got anywhere.
Fix: wouldnt had been that hard to have a speed option in the menu really. Currently the last 20 lvls or so arnt fun to play as you barely got time to think. Most of the earlier lvls you have a good time jumping around picking up stuff and take advantage of the stage layout, but later its kill or be killed and that kinda spoils those lvl i think.

Arkanoid: Where are those continues? Game is great with nice audio and lovely graphics .. but has anyone managed to get past lvl 3 on just the few lives you got? Sure getting past lvl 3 is possible .. like every 50th time you play, lol. This game must have a good 25-27 lvl that no one has ever seen unless they cheat their ass off.
Fix: a good 3-5 continues and the game really would have a great game i guess.

Sadly there is really no reason to fix those terrible mistakes today, as you can just load a inf lives poke and see the whole game. But had there been a fix back in the day, im sure a good 10.000 players would have been much happier.

[Gryzor]

Heheh I loved your BB report

As fas as Arkanoid goes, come on! It wasn't that bad! I seem to remember going quite far in it...

But, since you mentioned it, Krakout was an example of how game customization should be done...

[mahlemiut]

Heh, yes, the quit button right next to the start buttons... obviously not enough testing of 2 player games there

As for continues, that exactly matches the arcade version.  No continue timer there, either.

Now, I am no fan of Arkanoid, or any other Breakout-style game, but I did love Krakout.  It was actually fun to play.   Why oh why did Taito make level 3 of Arkanoid so damn annoying?

[Cholo]

As fas as Arkanoid goes, come on! It wasn't that bad! I seem to remember going quite far in it...

Well, i was saved a month or 2 after getting the game, as a nice AA poke showed up and allowed me to get past lvl 3 without to much pain and get further into the game. The game really plays nice and had there been some continues, it would have been "great" instread of just "nice".

Arkanoid 2 however got around the "bad lvl" problem as you could just choose another lvl. Oh i played that a lot 

[Xyphoe]

Hey guys - all this talk is very exciting stuff indeed! And I think there'll be a huuuuge range of opinions on what game to do next!

All I would suggest is coming to a consensus on a very popular game (like a famous arcade game converted) that would get noticed and be worthwhile for all the time and effort invested. For example, I don't think there would be much interest from people in Saboteur being improved. For all the work that would have to go into this, it would be nice to get some recognition - for example from Retro Gamer magazine who I'm sure Jason would cover this and introduce the improvement and work to a much wider audience. I've already emailed him about the Rick Dangerous update

I'll have a think about 'my list' of games I'd love to see improved

[Xyphoe]

I have one question about music ....

Specifically games that lack in game music.

How hard would it be to insert music?
For example Paperboy is completely missing of all sfx and music, as the programmer said all 64k was entirely consumed. Surely with another 64k there'd be plenty of room to add this in making it a 128k release

The one thing I could do, that I was good at years ago, is make music. By the time I got rolling with machine code and beginning to understand the workings of the CPC it was time for me to move on to PC's and C++ so there ended my games programming for the Amstrad But I was making some good music before that, I think using SoundTrakker and BooTracker that came with an Amstrad Action covertape.

So...... say I made some music for Paperboy that was like the arcade original, maybe a quick job in BooTracker, how easy would that be to implement in the game? Would doing so impact on the CPU and slow the game down making this pointless?

[fano]

So...... say I made some music for Paperboy that was like the arcade original, maybe a quick job in BooTracker, how easy would that be to implement in the game? Would doing so impact on the CPU and slow the game down making this pointless?

If you are able to generate YM/PT2/PT3/AY mod , we could convert it to AYC and use the madram AYC player that has a very little CPU impact (i used it for RD128+).A little patch on loader and on interrupt routine service should make the trick