Patching existing games

[arnoldemu]

I was thinking that some games could be improved a little it the game was patched.
An example is to fix the gitching scrolling on R-Type.
Another would be to improve scrolling speed on Xevious

What do others think?

[Devilmarkus]

It would be cool to see Cauldron 1 game with scrolling one day. Like on the C64.

[Gryzor]

Ahhh... R-type. I think Cauldron would be a different endeavour altogether though.

But at what level would it be done? Decompile the entire game and rewrite the relevant code?

[arnoldemu]

Ahhh... R-type. I think Cauldron would be a different endeavour altogether though.

But at what level would it be done? Decompile the entire game and rewrite the relevant code?

I was thinking that some of it could be done by poking the existing code instead of a re-write. I was also thinking small changes which would make a difference.

So not re-writing it.

I think some games could be speeded up a little with a few pokes here and there.

[fano]

I was thinking that some games could be improved a little it the game was patched.
An example is to fix the gitching scrolling on R-Type.
Another would be to improve scrolling speed on Xevious

What do others think?

This is a good idea , that would be interesting too for stripped down versions of some games that were ported to CPC.

[MacDeath]

When I came back to CPC hobby, I was looking for a way to re-do all those scrappy speccy ports.

I worked a bitt on graphics...Because I definitly suck at coding...
Black Tiger and R-Type.
I'm sure they don't need that much fixing...just a proper management of graphics so the CPC can understand them well, and so they can be good despite in mode1.

Almost all of those games used only 64Ko RAM... and weren't PLUS featured...
This leaves us a kool margin.

R-Type is a typicall cult game from this era.
And CPC version is perhaps the worst..yet we liked it...because faithfull to the arcade too.

With all you, good coders and programmers, the analysis of such game can be done collectively.
Just share your informations !!!

As you probably seen, I already reworked R-Type graphics in Mode 1...
Why not ?

So, if some good coders are at work on it, I can do the re-work of graphics more seriously.

Also, er..
Black tiger with the engine of Satan perhaps ? (lol)

PacMania would be great too...

And also a good job on HeroQuest maybe...

Call me.

Also, the addition of a scrolling to non-croller game.
Why not.
Wizball maybe would be great with such a scrolling in a 6128+ edition...
Barbarian 2 also could make a good use of a scrolling in a 6128+ edition too, or simply adding real PLUS graphics...

[fano]

R-Type is a typicall cult game from this era.
And CPC version is perhaps the worst..yet we liked it...because faithfull to the arcade too.

R-Type is , sadly , a good example.Technicaly it is poor but is still good as the original is great.

I am pretty sure it could be dramaticaly improved in terms of appearance, sound and maybe speed but the most difficult has to be done : a correct reverse engineering :s

Saboteur II is for me another example of speccy port that could be awesome instead of great (as a lot of durell games that are great but graphicaly poor).First i am pretty sure it could be a bit faster and mode 0 would allow a great ambiance.Sound is already perfect with a great tune.

For Amstrad 6128+, TwinWorld would be a good candidate.It is double buffered and i am pretty sure the rendering code could be improved.It provides already a nice split screen and i think colorfull graphics in mode 0 would be great for this game that is already excellent but i think it is a bit sad in comparaison of the 16bits original.

[dlfrsilver]

Yes !!! Twinworld is a fucking good game would be super in mode 0

[fano]

Yes it is great, some music would be welcome too

About R-type,  the guy who wrote Spectrum version (bob (or robert) pape) wrote GameBoy version too.He is credited in CPC version that let think the code has been ported directly to CPC by keith A. Goodyer.
There is an interesting talk on the Wiki about this game : http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Talk:R-Type
You can notice Atari ST users had not a lot of chance with the ST version as it suffers of problems , enemies seem to move on 8*8 grid that is awfull for a 16 bits version...

[MacDeath]

Honnestly, just having really the 4 colours per characters graphics and a bit faster stuff would be awesome for the game itself.

And the inter-levels stuff can always be added, so musics, better graphic presentation and so on.

I will work on a good portage of the C64 présentation page.
The CPC one is in fact a portage of the Speccy, too shitfull as the C64 one is in pseudo Mode0 on C64, and better designed.


Also yes, every Atari ST Musics can be ported, but it may be heavier on the game if those musics are in-game.

The only thing I regret, Fano told me it may be impossible to mask the sprites properly.
Well maybe if we only use 3 colours for them ?

Masqued sprites would be a great improovement i think.

Why not a pseudo colour attribute system enabling to use 3 colours per charcters on sprites, then the 4th colours used to mask.
With the use of a pseudo colour attribute system, it may then be possible to use different colours for masking, thus having perhaps 3 colors per characters.

Sprites having more than 1 characters and already a pseudo attribute system, why not ?

But a lot of work is needed then, and the goal is also to get rid of this Attribute system to gain a lot of CPU...if not memory.

Also, a simple stuff would be to add colours in the HUD.
Maybe easy as it allready include a Raster colours change...
This easily allow 2 more colours as only red is really used.
Of course the Death messages are using more colours if i remember well ("pilot stand by"), but those are game's window's colours...

It's a minor detail, but even this wasn't done properly as usual with Speccy ports.
A raster to only gain 1 colours on screen and 1 bit graphics...so shamefull...
As for BlackTiger or PacMania...

No more Gross Development, hail for the real Cross Dev. !!!

[ukmarkh]

I think the CPC version just needs to run a bit faster, and maybe in mode 0. This will distinguish it from the Speccy version, and go some way towards bettering it. The CPC deserved a better conversion than the 'RType' we all know and love... but saying that, I still enjoyed it.

I can think of many more games that I'd give a higher priority towards improving on, over 'RType'.   

[fano]

I think the CPC version just needs to run a bit faster

So let remove the starfield first, this shit is bugged and runs under interrupt so it eats approx 10% of the cpu time per frame :s
From my point, R-Type is great in terms of gameplay (thx to Irem and bob Pape for his great port on speccy) but sucks technicaly , it is just a Spectrum game put on a CPC code layer.It can be greatly patched to 128K with real CPC graphics and music.
I have already written an extractor to export sprites in BMP format (see on R-Type talk) and i'll write soon the patch to integrate new graphics into the game.

You can put here the list you want to see patched.

This is mine :

• Rick Dangerous (almost done lol)
• R-Type (wip)
• Twinworld
• Saboteur II

[MacDeath]

Yep, the starfield is bugged ?

It is useless too...
most levels are suposed to be interiors.

Also it is still displayed when static bosses are on screen...
So it may per exemple be displayed only in few sequences and limited parts of levels...and not every ones...

Or simply busted into garbage !
It even makes the unmasked aspect more visible...

[ukmarkh]

That starfield always bugged me, always wished I could have turned it off... maybe one day I'll be able to.

I've been banging on about the need for touching up 'Bionic Commando' for ages now. This game done properly would have been one of the best on the CPC. Another game I'd like to see get a makeover is 'Myth' this game is awesome, but It's a crying shame it didn't include music and a touch of colour, plus the last level of the Speccy version is missing. Then we have 'Super Hang-on' needs more colour and speeding up a little, runs a lot slower than the other versions. Moving on 'Super Monaco GP' has everything, apart from speed... this needs speeding up and then you'll have probably the best F1 game on the CPC. Dare I mention it, but the scrolling on 'Green Beret' always made me feel like I'd chose the wrong machine, I'd play it in the arcade and on a mates C64 and be blown away. Bubble Bobble is crying out to be improved, and the same is to be said for Outrun. Oh, and imagine Joe Blade in colour and with music playing.

Hope this helps.

[arnoldemu]

That starfield always bugged me, always wished I could have turned it off... maybe one day I'll be able to.

I've been banging on about the need for touching up 'Bionic Commando' for ages now. This game done properly would have been one of the best on the CPC. Another game I'd like to see get a makeover is 'Myth' this game is awesome, but It's a crying shame it didn't include music and a touch of colour, plus the last level of the Speccy version is missing. Then we have 'Super Hang-on' needs more colour and speeding up a little, runs a lot slower than the other versions. Moving on 'Super Monaco GP' has everything, apart from speed... this needs speeding up and then you'll have probably the best F1 game on the CPC. Dare I mention it, but the scrolling on 'Green Beret' always made me feel like I'd chose the wrong machine, I'd play it in the arcade and on a mates C64 and be blown away. Bubble Bobble is crying out to be improved, and the same is to be said for Outrun. Oh, and imagine Joe Blade in colour and with music playing.

Hope this helps.

A new version of Bubble Bobble has already been started by CNGSoft. I don't know of the progress at the moment.

I agree with you on the others.

I also believe that Wizball is poor compared to the c64 version.

I think that some games will require re-writes, others may require less changes (e.g. to speed up super monaco gp and outrun). I'm not saying any of these will be an easy task, more that some games require more changes than others.

I already have a plan to improve one already good cpc game for plus. Can't say anymore at this time.

[MacDeath]

Bionic Commando is beyond redemption indeed...

The Speccy port is soo scrapped you just can't do anything with this scrappy junk...(and I stay polite)

Just to start a new engine would be easier to get a good game !!!

[Cholo]

About R-type: Indeed the graphics do look a bit pale, especially compared to the speccy and the c64 version. Always felt that the game had a bit of a "steely-electronic" -look. Of cause once you have seen the other versions of the game you know you are missing something. The amstrad version is probably also the slowest version of the 3, but that is actually a advantage as it make is possible to reach the end of the game.

[mr_lou]

A new version of Bubble Bobble has already been started by CNGSoft. I don't know of the progress at the moment.

Yea I've been trying to figure out what happening with that one too. I hope it hasn't been abandoned. That would be a real shame. Last demo I saw, as far as I remember, all levels where there. It would be soooo coool with a better Bubble Bobble game for the CPC.

[MacDeath]

Can it be possible to add a scrolling to a "non scroller" game ?

Stuff like Green Berets, Gryzor or Wizzball may be nice with  scrollings...

[ukmarkh]

I'd imagine not, you could probably keep and re-use the graphics, but the majority of code would probably have to be re-started from scratch. I think we should leave the likes of Gryzor well alone, there are plenty of other games on the CPC that need improving on.   

Can it be possible to add a scrolling to a "non scroller" game ?

Stuff like Green Berets, Gryzor or Wizzball may be nice with  scrollings...

[Gryzor]

I think R-Type's speed is adequate. Since it's difficult enough as it is, if it gets any faster it'll become a real nightmare... So I'd concentrate on other aspects, maybe making it smoother. Maybe...

[MacDeath]

Well, masking the sprites would be so sweet...
But Fano said it won't do...er...maybe with a bit more rewriting/address changes ?

Also I suggested him to try some rasters colour changes on levels 5 and 8...
Those evels have simple backgroung that can theorically be rastered indeed.

May allow an incredible 10 colours on the screen (more if special border colour...lol... or even no-Black ink zones...)

But then the screen would get 4 zones (including HUD) with different palettes (well, lets say 4  horizontal zones and 3 palettes...)

Yet this seems "doable" and must be tried..

Concerning the well known amstrad's slow motion... It's true that it helps a lot of game to be easier indeed.
On Rick Dangerous, it show a slow motion when you kill ennemies...no ?

"Not a flaw, a feature"**


**as Speccist say about colour clashes...lol...


Yet just busting out this shitty starfield would indeed do a great favour to R-type, and re-coding the graphics, busting out also those vestigal speccy codes too.

Yet if one of you, coders, could try a proper masking for sprites...thx.

[fano]

Each R-type frame takes minimum 70000nops , so 4VBL per image at minimum.Some things would be easy to improve like sprites rendering or starfield.The scrolling code seems to bit more tricky and would not be easy to improve.

[ukmarkh]

I think everyone involved with the re-coding of the CPC R-Type should at least experience the Speccy version at least once... you'll see that the speed of the game is very important, makes it more frantic and exciting. Some levels can take ages to complete on the CPC, and although I love the CPC version, the lack of speed does sometimes grate and make the whole thing a breeze to complete. This shouldn't be the case, the arcade, PC-Engine, Amiga and Speccy versions are infamous for there difficulty, R-Type is the game in which a player should aim no higher than mere survival, and only really hope for a high score. Only a few brave and skilled pilots should ever manage to pilot the R9 through to the last of R-Type's eight massive stages. Once there, and probably through luck alone, the action of punching the air violently on completion was prize enough. This is why difficulty is important, along with the speed, and even today it's an accomplishment worth bragging about.

It's the reason why R-Type is pretty much considered no.1, and the CPC version should follow suit.     

[fano]

That's a shame because , as speecy version that is the same except speed, enemy patterns on CPC version are close to original.

I think everyone involved with the re-coding of the CPC R-Type should at least experience the Speccy version at least once...

Have a particular emulator to recommend for me ?

To be a bit off topic but not really, if you like R-Type , i'd recommend the PC Engine CD² version that is exceptionnal (maybe better than arcarde !)