Question: Is there a WARCRAFT/SETTLERS clone on CPC?

[tastefulmrship]

I've had a bit of a run through the strategy section of the CPC Games CD and I can't seem to find anything that resembles Blizzard's wonderful WARCRAFT 2 or Blue Byte's enchanting THE SETTLERS; a city building come mini-warfare strategy game for the CPC.
I would expect something like that to be relatively easy to program and would be surprised if no-one has done one!

Does anyone know of any CPC game that fits the Warcraft2-esque mold? Or am I just blind and stupid?

Ta muchly,
- JTMS...

[norecess]

If you like building cities, then Sim City is there for you.

[Ythcal]

I just know of some round-based war strategy games, but can't remember the names.

Some sort of Settlers would be very cool.
btw. Wasn't there a Theme Park clone in development?

[Morn]

1. Port OpenDUNE to the CPC
2. ?
3. Profit 

[MacDeath]

The problem with a Warcraft/dune2 like...

RTS = real time strategy.

We were told a game like Populous couldn't be done on most 8 bits due to low Memory.

Anyway Sega Master System got a Populous port Thx to the big cartridge capability...

Another issue is that there are a lot of sprites to handle, also the more complex the game mechanix the harder...

Warcraft is simili RPG, with to-hit rolls, damages rolls, armour and so on...

Just imagine this like some Real Time HeroQuest...

And also you would have to choose wisely between a construction oriented game or a combat oriented game.



And creature reactions are interactive...
A monster or even your own soldiers have some sort of Artificial intelligence (more like Automatic behaviours...)

I guess some RTS with limited unit cap could be done, so this would be skirmish and dungeon bashing, a RTS heroquest/SpaceCrusade then...
But a real Warcraft would be simply too much..

In order to manage the "huge" number of sprites, some Character based engine could be used, so no smooth movement for troops...

but after all, Lemming could make it on CPC...


Got to remember that each sprites would have 8 directions... but ok, there would be quite few animation frames too.

Concerning the size... 16x16 squares would be great.
The problem is in Mode0 it may be quite hard to get stuff (= creatures) that small looking good.
And Mode1 has certainly too few colours.


what about some Heroes of Might and Magic clone ?


How was Laser Squad ?

http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=1276
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=4956

[norecess]

Remember : RTS-type games were not that popular back in the CPC days.


It requires some kind of solid skills in AI programming to program a Warcraft 1-style game (path finding in mind..).


That said, I don't feel the CPC as a real constraint ; I mean, memory is OK for a "lite" clone.

[Ythcal]

There was a RTS game for the GameBoy Color released back in 2000: Warlocked.
It was a little limited, but very impressive.


Classic Game Gems: Warlocked 15 Minutes Game Play

[Morn]

It requires some kind of solid skills in AI programming to program a Warcraft 1-style game (path finding in mind..).

I think it's actually part of the charm of early RTS games like Dune II that their AI is so bad. You have to monitor your troops all the time AND harvest spice and build your base, etc. The bigger problem is probably that you need to go back and forth between distant areas of the map, which is easy to do with a mouse but a bit awkward with a joystick.


Fancy graphics are not necessarily needed, but sound effects are important to tell you when e.g. your troops are under attack. The battles in e.g. North & South or Dune II are pretty basic in terms of animation, even on the Amiga, but they're still loads of fun because of the sounds effects and general sense of pace.

[Morn]

There was a RTS game for the GameBoy Color released back in 2000: Warlocked.
It was a little limited, but very impressive.

0:18-0:24: Uh oh, even the GameBoy has smoother scrolling than the CPC. 

[TFM]

0:18-0:24: Uh oh, even the GameBoy has smoother scrolling than the CPC. 

Looks like you missed a lot of good games ;-)

[sigh]

I think this would be really difficult on a regular CPC. Although something like "Risk" could be less graphically intense.

[steve]

0:18-0:24: Uh oh, even the GameBoy has smoother scrolling than the CPC. 

Not difficult as the gameboy colour has a lower resolution (160x144) and the processor runs at 8mhz, more than twice as fast as the CPC's.

[Morn]

Looks like you missed a lot of good games ;-)

Perhaps so. Well, I think "Gauntlet" actually had pretty decent scrolling. But at the moment I can't think of any vintage games that achieve the same buttery scrolling as in current demos.


But RTS games don't need extremely smooth scrolling anyway. As far as I recall (with a little help from YouTube), the Amiga version of Dune II did not have smooth scrolling either, and I don't think this hurt gameplay at all.

[MacDeath]

the Amiga version of Dune II did not have smooth scrolling either

All I can remember is that I had a friend with an Amiga 2000 with HDD... and his version was shitier than my Compaq 486 DX with HDD... yet he had better sounds as I had no Soundcard at the time...

We are not dealing with CPC's league here...

[TFM]

Perhaps so. Well, I think "Gauntlet" actually had pretty decent scrolling. But at the moment I can't think of any vintage games that achieve the same buttery scrolling as in current demos.

Scrolling in demos is very different - means way more easy, since it's just a demo - which means scrolling is usually shown in a very special way, which makes everything more easy.

But about Games, there are really a bunch: Mission Genocide, Trantor and take a look at Tornado Low Level (increase the speed to max and hell enjoy!).


EDIT: Couldn't find TTL on youtube, but this is a good alternative ;-)

Tornado Low Flying

[Morn]

All I can remember is that I had a friend with an Amiga 2000 with HDD... and his version was shitier than my Compaq 486 DX with HDD... yet he had better sounds as I had no Soundcard at the time...

We are not dealing with CPC's league here...

Yes, I've just played the DOS version in DOSBox and it's indeed much better. However, the Amiga 1200 was competitive with PCs of the time (e.g. Star Trek: 25th Anniversary). Of course the 1200 had a similar market acceptance as the "Plus" CPCs. 


Sure, a CPC cannot do Command & Conquer 4, but that doesn't mean it couldn't do an RTS with blocky graphics, slightly dumb AI which gets magical energy boosts to create a proper onslaught whenever it looks like the player is winning, and slightly repetitive gameplay. We've all suffered much worse games in the 80s. 

But about Games, there are really a bunch: Mission Genocide, Trantor and take a look at Tornado Low Level (increase the speed to max and hell enjoy!).

Xyphoe needs to do a video about those then. BTW, did you watch that YouTube vid through a proxy? It gives me the "Sorry, this content is not playable in Germany because GEMA sucks"-type error message.

[tastefulmrship]

 
I think you guys are over-complicating the genre. A simple RTS game like this would suffice for now;

1. Start with a PALACE/CASTLE/VILLAGE sprite as centre of 'city'. Give player 100 FOOD, 100 WOOD, 100 STONE.
2. Build a FARM (one sprite)... this increments a FOOD counter.
3. Build a LUMBER (one sprite)... this increments a WOOD counter.
4. Build a QUARRY (one sprite)... this increments a STONE counter.
- These can be built in a specific location, like online RTS games (EVONY, CAESARY, etc) rather than where ever the player wants it. (obviously, this can change later)
- There's no reason to have 8 direction sprites for each building, unless you plan to rotate the viewpoint as well.
- A simple 8x8 (or 16x16) map can be created in a BASIC array that holds the building info. And a mini-map can be colour-coded to view this.

(Upgrades of these buildings can be done in a later version, perhaps)

5. Build a BARRACKS (one sprite)... gives ability to increase SOLDIER counter when using WOOD/STONE, maybe.
- Other army types can be added later, as well as upgrades of existing SOLDIERS.

(Other useful buildings can be thought up as the game expands... if it ever gets started)

6. At the same time, the COMPUTER AI is also building their city and SOLDIERS.
(Ok, so this is where the CPC may fall down, so I would say add this in once a stable 'city' build program has been established)


Err... that's about as far as my mind goes for now. But, could this be created on the CPC in a short space of time?
I don't mind creating a BASIC version of this, but my ASSEMbler knowledge is simply too infantile to consider it myself!
Also, for now, I'd have to steal graphics from other games, just as place-holders.

Ideas? Or should I just download Dune 2.5 and forget all about it?
- JTMS...

[Morn]

How about Empire (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=807) then? It's in French though.

[Morn]

How about Empire (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=807) then? It's in French though.

P.S. It's mostly written in BASIC, so it could be easily translated.

[Devilmarkus]

A bit off-topic, but I liked the game "Risiko" (Risk)
http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=1808

It's a cool multiplayer game based on the original Risk game...

[tastefulmrship]

P.S. It's mostly written in BASIC, so it could be easily translated.

Yeah, good olde Bablefish to the rescue!

The game itself might take a bit of getting used to, and I think I might be able to program my own BASIC city builder/simple warfare. Especially if I stick to multiplayer rather than Player vs CPU. And considering EMPIRES is written in BASIC, I won't feel too much of a failure! (Pretty simple sprites in MC I can do!)
Turn-based RTS suits the machine far better than real-time. It would require a lot of interupts to get everything working real-time. Mmmm... much to think about over the next few hours!

Ta,

[Morn]

If you don't need AI, just multiplayer, there's also Strego on the 2/92 Databox. It's in German though.    And I haven't really been able to figure out how to play this, so I don't know if it's any good.

[Morn]

Turn-based RTS suits the machine far better than real-time.

And if individual turns are short in a game and you cannot give a zillion orders during your turn, it plays a lot like real-time anyway.
AI in Dune II was also heavily scripted, so it's not as if the Amiga/DOS AI engine was that great. If you script enemy behavior, even the CPC can do it. 

[tastefulmrship]

Yeah, I hadn't noticed RISIKO and STREGO when looking through the STRATEGY section... mainly because they aren't there!
I was never into Risk or Stratego, as they're more warfare based.

I think I'll stick to a simple Warcraft/Evony/Settlers clone. In BASIC. With stolen graphics. And little/no sound!
Time to re-schedule my overscan stuff & NTWICCT to sometime in the future and spend the weekend developing this!

Thanks for your input guys,
- JTMS...


EDIT: Yeah, I plan to give the player a choice between a small set of options per turn; build a structure or move army or fortify location, etc. And then continue to the next player or AI. Heavily scripted is my kinda scripted!

[Morn]

EDIT: Yeah, I plan to give the player a choice between a small set of options per turn; build a structure or move army or fortify location, etc. And then continue to the next player or AI. Heavily scripted is my kinda scripted!

Maybe you could add some pace by setting a time limit for a turn. Don't let the game just sit there for an hour waiting for the player's input. And no pause function either!