Quick question on Renegade/Target Renegade graphics

[Gryzor]

The bare-chested version looks kind of greenish. Better go with th whit vest one If we had more pixes to toy around with I'd tell you to add a Speccy logo on his shirt

[sigh]

The bare-chested version looks kind of greenish. Better go with th whit vest one If we had more pixes to toy around with I'd tell you to add a Speccy logo on his shirt

Here's the final update:



Giving them all mohawk hairstyles gives a better feeling of them being connected to the same gang. Any answers to the scrolling question?
There are going to be 6 levels and I have these gang types in mind in the following order:

1) Mohawk punk gang
2) Football shirt wearing gang
3) Hoodie wearing, moped riding gang
4) Female gang
5) Mask wearing gang
6) Suited gang

[redbox]

Any answers to the scrolling question?

It's possible, but it depends on whether your coder wants to take the task on or not - and that in turn depends on a lot of aspects regarding the rest of the game engine...

The graphics are looking great btw, would love to see some mock-ups with the backgrounds when they're ready.

[sigh]

It's possible, but it depends on whether your coder wants to take the task on or not - and that in turn depends on a lot of aspects regarding the rest of the game engine...

The graphics are looking great btw, would love to see some mock-ups with the backgrounds when they're ready.

I probably didn't explain myself properly regarding the scrolling question. The question was refering to examples of smooth scrolling non shoot em up games that are already out there(youtube etc). I've been away from the CPC scene for a good while and wanted to know and see more examples of these games (not demos).

I'll be producing the animated mock up demo soon after I've animated the first level characters and background tiles.

Cheers!

[Axelay]

Any answers to the scrolling question?

Looking at Dragon Ninja, it is 2 pixel scrolling.  Another example of reasonably good 2 pixel push scrolling would be Stormlord I guess.  Some sluggish examples would be Beyond the Ice Palace and Ninja Spirit.  The first stage of Dark Fusion is a platform shooter push scrolling that is quite smooth when the action is light.  I suspect none of these games have the sprite size and count you are after though.


The Contra & Sisters games use hardware 2 pixel scrolling to my knowledge, not used much.  Examples of that in platform games would be Super Cauldron and Ghouls'n'Ghosts.  GnG isnt a helpful example as it sacrifices colour for speed.  Super Cauldron (and Prehistorik 2) both have nice smooth 2 pixel hardware scrolls, but their sprites update at significantly lower rates.  And they all use 'surge scrolling' as the scroll would be too fast otherwise.  Again, none of these games have the kind of sprite size and count you'd be looking at, I think?

[sigh]

Looking at Dragon Ninja, it is 2 pixel scrolling.  Another example of reasonably good 2 pixel push scrolling would be Stormlord I guess.  Some sluggish examples would be Beyond the Ice Palace and Ninja Spirit.  The first stage of Dark Fusion is a platform shooter push scrolling that is quite smooth when the action is light.  I suspect none of these games have the sprite size and count you are after though.


The Contra & Sisters games use hardware 2 pixel scrolling to my knowledge, not used much.  Examples of that in platform games would be Super Cauldron and Ghouls'n'Ghosts.  GnG isnt a helpful example as it sacrifices colour for speed.  Super Cauldron (and Prehistorik 2) both have nice smooth 2 pixel hardware scrolls, but their sprites update at significantly lower rates.  And they all use 'surge scrolling' as the scroll would be too fast otherwise.  Again, none of these games have the kind of sprite size and count you'd be looking at, I think?

Thank you very much for those examples. Prehistoric 2 and the Ghouls n Ghost use the push scrolling which I would like to avoid for this type of game. The Stormlord and Dark Fusion looks nice, but your right about the sprite sizes as they are smaller. My sprite count in 2 player mode will be 6 on screen at once like the other renegade games (any less than that and it wont be very challenging.)
I couldn't find Ninja Scroll and can't remeber how it looked. Beyond the Ice Palace didn't look as smooth as Stormlord.

I found a very small clip of Super Couldron on one of Xyphoe "Amstrad CPC" horror games. That's a very interesting one as it seems to push scroll horizontally, but scrolls normally when going vertical. With these type of beat em up games, they usually scroll for a bit and then fight in a designated area, so it's not continuously scrolling like a platform games, so it's quite a start and stop affair. But the area they are fighting in is roughly the size of the last picture I posted, while the stormlord area seems bigger making the whole affair look smoother I presume? A tiny bit of vertical scrolling would be nice, but not crucial.

Got me thinking.

When I do the animated demo, I'll make each with 1 pixel scrolling and 2 pixel scrolling.

[sigh]

Example of what I'm going for background wise. It's unfinished(alleyway and inner background etc). Need to learn about tiling and optimizing tiles as I doubt very little of this would tile efficiently, but needed to make sure that the sprites wouldn't get lost. Tiling would be 8 pixels wide and 16 pixels down.

Lot's to learn...

Edit: I need 8 screens worth or tiles for the scrolling. I take it that   it would be best for me to rough out the whole level 8 screens wide?

[MacDeath]

Not bad isometric is so cool in mode

But If I may give some personnal view

mixing the CPC grey (only one) with the other pseudo greys (Dark cyan, green, darkyellow) is not a good idea

To me it is better to "mix" the Grey (the real one) only with Black, White and perhaps a dark or light colour, but no other colour on the same lvl as the Grey.



see the upper 3x3 grids ?
the one on the middle with grey, darkyellow, darkcyan, darkgreen, pink, Orange and so on...(2 odd blues/purple...)
this is simple, all those colours are to not be mixed with the Grey (the one in the center of the 3x3matrix)

because those colours are at the same "level"... they are oloured greys... sort of.

This is the only default of the CPC palette... only one real grey.


There I tried a different colours scheme but I agree the picture you posted was a stub...
Background tiles are not refined nor finished...

Just hope it will help you...
Grey is a hard colour to us on CPC while it is the "only" colour onb C64... sort of...lol...


That's why it is so "easy" to develop graphics on Amstrad PLUS... well not really, but far more comfortable...

[sigh]

Thanks for the picture edit! I was told by another person to use the browns and orange on the backgrounds, but as I suspected the sprites no longer "pop" out of the background, which just makes everything to bold. The colours I have chosen are meant to show a balance of contrast against the boldness of the sprites, but I think the problem is that I haven't used those colours correctly for the brick work. I do believe that you can mix those colours that are on similar levels, but I just haven't mixed them well enough. Also, with the still picture posted - it would be at least 3 times bigger than that.



...and before I go any further I need to type in the correct RGB numbers for this CPC palette!!!
Anyway - I'm partial to the subdued brick work on the right.....

[Sykobee (Briggsy)]

MacDeath - on the contrary, for subtle highlights in the background, you should use the colours around the grey. I prefer sigh's mockup - the characters stand out whilst the background is still interesting and gritty. We're aiming for inner-city here, not Dynamite Dux.


Although I do wonder how all these screens of graphics will fit into memory!

[andycadley]

I'm inclined to agree with MacDeath. For subtle highlights you might get away with it, but when the entire backdrop is like that it just looks like one big smear and I suspect will only look worse on an actual CPC monitor. It's a nice idea in theory, but the standard palette just doesn't lend itself to that effect. The best you'll manage is to use darker colours for the background and brighter colours for the sprites, although that may not give you a good selection of colours for the look you want for the sprites.

[sigh]

I'm going for the blue version for this level. I think it looks nice and after I add in the other details like cracks, wall damage tiles,and more bits of graffiti on the wall itself, along with some different coloured brick tiles, it should feel a lot more organic.

So far there are 16 brick tiles at 8X16 and 5 pavement tiles 8x16. 21 tiles in total. WIll probably add another 10 brick variations and another 5 pavement variations. The road (the main section where most of the battle will take place will probably be another 5. I'll also add 3 tile cracks/road damage tiles.

Not to sure what I'm going to do for inner alleyway background. I'll need to do some windows doors and shutter variations to break up the scene.

MacDeath - on the contrary, for subtle highlights in the background, you should use the colours around the grey. I prefer sigh's mockup - the characters stand out whilst the background is still interesting and gritty. We're aiming for inner-city here, not Dynamite Dux.


Although I do wonder how all these screens of graphics will fit into memory!

As everything is tile based, a 125 tiles fit on a 16KB 160x200 sheet. All the animation sprites weapons and enemies are on a 64KB sheet which may actually be smaller as it's not using the whole sheet per se as there are lots of gaps in it (though I have no idea how many KB would be saved.) I'm going to try and get this finished this week.

[arnoldemu]

Take a look at Grell and Falla this uses hardware scrolling, but I don't think it's push scroll as seen in others like Prehistorik 2.

[MacDeath]

on the contrary, for subtle highlights in the background, you should use   the colours around the grey. I prefer sigh's mockup - the characters   stand out whilst the background is still interesting and gritty. We're   aiming for inner-city here, not Dynamite Dux.

Yes, but take the exemple of the street tiles...
only grey and darkcyan : no contrast, and not the dark and gritty feeling.

you can of course mix DarkCyan and grey if you want, but need to put some black too... and perhaps a few dots of pseudo white (very light yellow, green or cyan...)

[sigh]

Take a look at Grell and Falla this uses hardware scrolling, but I don't think it's push scroll as seen in others like Prehistorik 2.

Thanks. I'll have a look at those.

Yes, but take the exemple of the street tiles...
only grey and darkcyan : no contrast, and not the dark and gritty feeling.

you can of course mix DarkCyan and grey if you want, but need to put some black too... and perhaps a few dots of pseudo white (very light yellow, green or cyan...)

Just received help from a fanastic artist (Helm). Will post an updated version soon.

[sigh]

An unfinished update:


The artist Helm, had previously edited another scene that I attempted where I replaced the bricks with something more defined. He edited it using an oldschool comic ink style which I just loved. So I've been working on top of it ever since. It's unfinished and I need to dig out some of my old comic books as I need to do something with the pavement, the alleyway and the road they are fighting on. The theme for the backgrounds in this game where becoming very tricky for me so I can't thank this guy enough.

(...and these are also the correct colours)

[redbox]

An unfinished update:

Awesome 

You're right about the road and alleyway, but apart from that it looks great and I love the colours.

[MacDeath]

This looks clearly better and even quite good actually...
You got rid of the green and darkyellows...

Blues are clearly the best part of the CPC palette... (blues and cyans and purples...)

Good job, and good luck on you !

I hope this project will be completed one day...


perhaps a good modern "old-school flavoured" thing that may be o f some inspiration...

Scott Pilgrim"s beat'hem up game...









Of course as it is on modern computer his is a state of the art in the matter... with a virtually unlimited supply in sprites and tiles...
And far more colours to choose from...
That's also why I love the Amstrad PLUS...


There I did another slight edit...

Trousers with more black, so it looks like leather and you can be sure it won't blur into the background...
and street in Grey and black only...

but concerning this, the Asphalt...

Perhaps you should get the same recipe as used in scott pilgrims...
getting far less texture...


so a Grey only asphalt with a few tiles of... scratches, cracks or gravels... here and there
Also the

A "Chaotic" display of such tiles is better...

so you don't get the repeatitive and too regular aspect in the texture..

Also Pedestrian crossing and road markings...Puddles of water/sewer...

Dog's shit ?

I don't know in your country but in France we have a lot of Dog's shit in the street...

[sigh]

Thanks but there is far too much black being abused in that pic. The black on the road is far too much and "in your face" and really needs to be as less potent so  it looks less confusing. It needs a far lighter colours I also need to keep those sprites lighter than the background, which is why I only want the backgrounds with the ink styling and definitely not the sprites, so the black on the jeans are a "no, no".

As much as I enjoyed playing the Scott Pilgrim game, the graphical style doesn't do much for me as I really dislike that type of anime art, so it's not the best reference to chose. I'll be flicking through some old 80's comics as these backgrounds need the correct type of detail.

[Gryzor]

I just love MacDeath's suggestions... they are more mainstream but they do look great... But of course you'd have to have variety in different levels, so that's a great challenge!

[arnoldemu]

Of course as it is on modern computer his is a state of the art in the matter... with a virtually unlimited supply in sprites and tiles...
And far more colours to choose from...
That's also why I love the Amstrad PLUS...

Unlimited sprites on the plus? keep dreaming

[Sykobee (Briggsy)]

Some graphics ideas:


Options for the alleyway - bins or dumpster. Newspaper pages blown against walls. Chainlink fence in background (with city skyscrapers beyond and a sunset for some colour where characters don't appear). Burned out car!


Options for road - double yellow lines. Pedestrian crossings. Drain covers. Manhole covers. Just wish the CPC had a darker grey to use here for the tarmac...


Other 'flair' - signposts (no parking, fine for dog mess, etc), lamp posts.

[sigh]

The latest update: Not to sure how I'm going to optimize the crack tiles yet...

Some graphics ideas:


Options for the alleyway - bins or dumpster. Newspaper pages blown against walls. Chainlink fence in background (with city skyscrapers beyond and a sunset for some colour where characters don't appear). Burned out car!


Options for road - double yellow lines. Pedestrian crossings. Drain covers. Manhole covers. Just wish the CPC had a darker grey to use here for the tarmac...


Other 'flair' - signposts (no parking, fine for dog mess, etc), lamp posts.

It's tricky to fit al those in as I only have one sheet to use and they have to be tileable. I've been playing with the double yellow lines, but again they were just too bold. I made them the light purple and it seemed a bit easier on the eyes - double purple lines! Drain covers are good as they dont take much tile space, but the zebra crossing I'll save for another level. (no need to squeeze everything in one screen or level)

I'm need to be careful as to not to clutter the alleyway as that area shouldn't be very detailed or it will look too repetitive if the objects are too strong. (seeing stair steps is less repetitive than seeing a burnt out car again and again.) However, it would be nice to add something like that on the last screen.

Lampost and signs - are things I'm doing for the next screen which I'm going to start planning today or tomorrow.

[redbox]

The latest update: Not to sure how I'm going to optimize the crack tiles yet...

I think the alleyway looks really great - murky and dark, just as it should be.

The cracks in the road don't look like they follow the isometric form though, they just look like the run straight along and down.  Not sure how this would be sorted though?

[sigh]

I think the alleyway looks really great - murky and dark, just as it should be.

The cracks in the road don't look like they follow the isometric form though, they just look like the run straight along and down.  Not sure how this would be sorted though?

Cracks are pretty random in themselves. There will be different lengths, sizes and shapes so it should be okay.