R-Type

[ivarf]

 
I hate sounding like a real fanboy but I am blown away. I was enjoying the game on WinApe but it's like comparing chalk and cheese when running it on real hardware.
Colours are richer, there's no aliasing on the picture so it looks sharper, sound is deeper.
Thanks for creating the conversion I wished for when I was 10 years old

Nice to hear about this! About, the colour, just what I was expecting and nice to get it confirmed

[TFM]

true, although beaker is running it on a modern monitor so he probably won't see the antialiasing?

Probably not :-( Well, that's what people have to scrifice on their hunt for crystal clear pictures.

Years ago people made things like an aquarium out of a real CTM, but nowadays that nice monitor is already a bit hard to find. And the original monitors should stay our reference.

On the CPC I like the green / monchrome (Plus) monitors for programming; and for a test run of the software I just switch to the color monitor... So my eyes are fine and I can see the result in color. Another advantage is, that I also know how it looks like on green/mono. screens. And there is no reason to treat them mean 

[beaker]

And there is no reason to treat them mean 

I melted my CPC 464's colour monitor.... 
I accidently left it next to a heat source for too long and the side melted so in the end I figured it was too dangerous and it's now in a landfill in the UK 

[beaker]

true, although beaker is running it on a modern monitor so he probably won't see the antialiasing?

  I hope not... the colours in the photo are a bit (very) washed out thanks to the camera but hopefully they give you the idea of what it looks like in the game picture option on the 43 inch screen...

[ivarf]

  I hope not... the colours in the photo are a bit (very) washed out thanks to the camera but hopefully they give you the idea of what it looks like in the game picture option on the 43 inch screen...

You are running Windows on the CPC!!! And it looks like a shiny new Windows too! Good for ya!

[TFM]

I accidently left it next to a heat source for too long and the side melted so in the end I figured it was too dangerous and it's now in a landfill in the UK 

OMG! That toxic stuff of the monitor really shouldn't go to soil!!!

[TMR]

OMG ! nice setup ! finally i know now why i didn't use R3 scrolling 

Sorry, this set me thinking on a bit of a sideline and is probably a pointless thought[1]... what is it that makes R3 scrolling not work with recent televisions and, if it's missing hardware that the CTM has, is there perhaps a way to put something between the CPC and telly to "translate" and fix the problem?

[1] i'm not a hardware bunny, please be gentle if it's garbage!

[ukmarkh]

Sorry, this set me thinking on a bit of a sideline and is probably a pointless thought[1]... what is it that makes R3 scrolling not work with recent televisions and, if it's missing hardware that the CTM has, is there perhaps a way to put something between the CPC and telly to "translate" and fix the problem?

[1] i'm not a hardware bunny, please be gentle if it's garbage!

Would an Amstrad Modulator help with the R3 issues... 

[TotO]

Sorry, this set me thinking on a bit of a sideline and is probably a pointless thought[1]... what is it that makes R3 scrolling not work with recent televisions and, if it's missing hardware that the CTM has, is there perhaps a way to put something between the CPC and telly to "translate" and fix the problem?

[1] i'm not a hardware bunny, please be gentle if it's garbage!

Problem is "new" TV (CRT then LCD, ...) don't support all the same timing/frequency as the original CTM (more permissive). It's a close issue as new TV are no more 100% compatible with old videogame systems, Sega SMS and Genesis for exemple.
To fix that, you need a converter (RGB to HDMI) that doing the job perfectly; Sadly, after some test on different existing products, than didn't work on CPC.

By the way, I don't share the idea to not make hard scroll on CPC because new TV don't support it... A full CPC is OK, emulators are OK too. (and probably FPGA clone with standard video output)
We have to manage for the original system, not for new screens. Just nice if that work.

About R-Type, today more players can enjoy it like that and the software scrolling allow things that was not possible in hardware like parallax and animated background.
So, because it already look better than most CPC scroll like that, I think we made a good choice for this game.

[beaker]

Does Edge Grinder use the R3 scrolling? I see some people had problems with the scrolling being jerky but I don't seem to have this issue?

[TotO]

Yes, Edge Grinder use R3 scrolling... Ghosts'N Goblins too (but, only half char).
If I'm not wrong, they don't work properly on CRTC2 and the jerking problem can only be fixed using a compatible display.

[TFM]

About R-Type, today more players can enjoy it like that and the software scrolling allow things that was not possible in hardware like parallax and animated background.

- Parallax is not a problem when using R3 scrolls. IMHO it's a prerequisite! (if you want to do it perfect).

- Animated backgrounds are no problem using R3 scrolls, even in overscan.

[TotO]

Sure. Don't wait to do that in a full game.
On our R-Type engine, it's was CPU free.

[TFM]

Im my full game(s) it's CPU time free too.

[TotO]

Nice.

[TFM]

All ways are finally doable. Like all roads lead to Rome ;-)
And especially in complex games IMHO there is not only one perfect solution.
However after an excurse to philosophy we can IYL come back to R-Type128 a real matesterpiece :-)

[MacDeath]

Like all roads lead to Rome ;-)

Yeah, but they passe through Drôme in order to get you there from northern Europa.

[TFM]

Yeah, but they passe through Drôme in order to get you there from northern Europa.

See, therefore I never made it till Rome 

[TotO]

ReSeT #8 Contest
Win an exclusive box version of the game. 

[arnoldemu]

Sorry, this set me thinking on a bit of a sideline and is probably a pointless thought[1]... what is it that makes R3 scrolling not work with recent televisions and, if it's missing hardware that the CTM has, is there perhaps a way to put something between the CPC and telly to "translate" and fix the problem?

[1] i'm not a hardware bunny, please be gentle if it's garbage!

R3 defines the vertical sync and horizontal sync lengths, the horizontal and vertical timings which tell the display when to move to the next line, or start the next frame. The same register is there on the VDC(?) in the C128.

What makes it special in the CPC is the way this is processed.

The horizontal sync output goes from the crtc, through the gate-array (which delays it and cuts it at 6 microseconds long) and out to the display. So anything above 6 results in no movement. Anything below 6 involves regular movements relative to the last value shifting the screen in one direction horizontally.

The R3 trick switches between 6 and 5. It's changing the horizontal timing every other frame. Vertical sync remains fixed.

On a CPC/Plus monitor it causes the display to shift horizontally, the difference between the two values equates to half a CRTC char (which is 1 byte which is 2 pixels in mode 0, 4 pixels in mode 1 and 8 pixels in mode 2). It's like switching the C64's horizontal hardware scroll between 0 and half (8?). The reason it's half may be down to the delay from the gate-array doing it that way.. .

The result depends on the display with some values not being smooth for some and smooth for others.

The CPC's monitors take the sync directly and it is processed by an IC within it. A "normal" colour television sync IC.

The TV modulator (MP-2) for the CPC translates the hsync/vsync signal, so on tvs you often see the display going black and white, probably the PAL colour signal being lost. I don't know if the display moves or not.

On a modern TV they expect (and I am guessing), a regular hsync/vsync signal. Anything outside of the norm is possibly ignored, so the effect just doesn't work.

What it does give us is the ability for smoother scroll without sacrificing extra ram to store shifted versions of the screen.

[TotO]

ReSeT #8 Contest
Win an exclusive box version of the game. 

On a modern TV they expect (and I am guessing), a regular hsync/vsync signal. Anything outside of the norm is possibly ignored, so the effect just doesn't work.
What it does give us is the ability for smoother scroll without sacrificing extra ram to store shifted versions of the screen.

And the CPC come with it's monitor. It's not like some other computers... Here, you can expect to get the result working on all factory models.
But, is this nice feature work on all CRTC? (seem that Edge Grinder get problems on Type 2 or I'm wrong?)

[Axelay]

But, is this nice feature work on all CRTC? (seem that Edge Grinder get problems on Type 2 or I'm wrong?)

I had not heard this before, is it mentioned somewhere?  I haven't a Type 2 to test things on myself.

[arnoldemu]

ReSeT #8 Contest
Win an exclusive box version of the game. 

And the CPC come with it's monitor. It's not like some other computers... Here, you can expect to get the result working on all factory models.
But, is this nice feature work on all CRTC? (seem that Edge Grinder get problems on Type 2 or I'm wrong?)

I have a crtc type 2 so I can test this.

[TotO]

OK, thank you!

[Gryzor]

Ohhh a boxed edition... me likey.