Author Topic: Rodland  (Read 30476 times)

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Offline andycadley

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Re: Rodland
« Reply #100 on: 20:57, 24 June 20 »
Not entirely. The ULA only reads the attribute memory once for every 8 pixels, so no matter what you do you are limited to 2 colours every 8 pixels. And then there are limits on how fast you can update the display and prep for the next frame, so all engines will have to make certain compromises somewhere. There are plenty of puzzle games that do manage quite well though.
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Offline Vince

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Re: Rodland
« Reply #101 on: 21:02, 24 June 20 »
Not entirely. The ULA only reads the attribute memory once for every 8 pixels, so no matter what you do you are limited to 2 colours every 8 pixels. And then there are limits on how fast you can update the display and prep for the next frame, so all engines will have to make certain compromises somewhere. There are plenty of puzzle games that do manage quite well though.


Ok. I found the game I remembered from BITD. It's this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd2VPPTI6DU



I don't know if it is a good game but I was knocked out when I saw it. I thought, 'that's a speccy! How!'.




Edit: Removed rogue tag.
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Offline andycadley

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Re: Rodland
« Reply #102 on: 21:12, 24 June 20 »
The play area is mostly monochrome and the spot colour carefully restricted to attribute squares so that it can't clash with anything. It's one of those games that shows what happens when you lean in to the limitations of a machine and design around it rather than trying to avoid them.
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Offline Carnivius

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Re: Rodland
« Reply #103 on: 22:46, 24 June 20 »
The play area is mostly monochrome and the spot colour carefully restricted to attribute squares so that it can't clash with anything. It's one of those games that shows what happens when you lean in to the limitations of a machine and design around it rather than trying to avoid them.
Yeah it's basically just doing the same thing as the games I linked to videos of but way simpler, much less complicated sprite design and not scrolling or anything. 
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Favorite CPC games: SwitchBlade, Stryker in the Crypts of Trogan, Turrican II, UN Squadron, Oh Mummy

Offline OneVision

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Re: Rodland
« Reply #104 on: 10:38, 25 June 20 »
@sigh : Hello ! Your work on RodLand was so inspiring to me ! This is an awesome job.


I really liked the game back at the day and wanted to have fun trying to recreate the spirit on my side for the PLUS.


Here's an update :
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Offline sigh

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Re: Rodland
« Reply #105 on: 10:51, 25 June 20 »
@OneVision

That looks great and very much like the arcade. You should try and put the HUD in too to show a completed screen.
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Offline Nich

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Re: Rodland
« Reply #106 on: 23:26, 25 June 20 »
@Nich . Not sure now if you were referring to the clash or the game without clash.

The commercial release of Pac-Land featured two-colour graphics, but someone reverse engineered the code a few years ago and discovered that there was a way to reintroduce the colour. The sprites use the same colour as the background scenery, so you could say there is still some colour clash.

Quote
I remember clearly years ago seeing a spectrum game without clash completely.

I forget the name, but recently a game was given big plaudits for pulling off the same trick and the same way I believe, but I can't think of the name of that one either.

Lightforce was hailed at the time of its release for minimising colour clash on the Spectrum. IIRC, when a few of the magazine reviewers saw it playing for the first time, they weren't convinced it was running on a Spectrum! ???
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Offline Vince

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Re: Rodland
« Reply #107 on: 23:30, 25 June 20 »
Lightforce was hailed at the time of its release for minimising colour clash on the Spectrum. IIRC, when a few of the magazine reviewers saw it playing for the first time, they weren't convinced it was running on a Spectrum! ???
right, but Jesus how jittery is it ?
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Offline Vince

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Re: Rodland
« Reply #108 on: 03:26, 26 June 20 »
@sigh : Hello ! Your work on RodLand was so inspiring to me ! This is an awesome job.


I really liked the game back at the day and wanted to have fun trying to recreate the spirit on my side for the PLUS.


Here's an update :


looks great,  8) 8) 8) but why is it so wide?

Original arcade is 16 blocks / tiles wide by 14 high. yours is 14 high but 30? wide
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Offline OneVision

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Re: Rodland
« Reply #109 on: 11:05, 26 June 20 »

looks great,  8) 8) 8) but why is it so wide?

Original arcade is 16 blocks / tiles wide by 14 high. yours is 14 high but 30? wide


It's just that I have put side by side the two first stages to work on the same palette, but you're totally right, a single stage is half the width of this screen.
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Offline Carnivius

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Re: Rodland
« Reply #110 on: 11:25, 26 June 20 »
The commercial release of Pac-Land featured two-colour graphics, but someone reverse engineered the code a few years ago and discovered that there was a way to reintroduce the colour. The sprites use the same colour as the background scenery, so you could say there is still some colour clash.

Yeah I mentioned Pac-Land and with a link to the modded file. :D

Really like that colour mod of Rodland on Spectrum.  Way better.  I don't mind some colour clash if it means I can actually see some colour.  The all-mono looks bores the hell out of me especially on a cute arcade game.

Turns out the guy who added colour did so with some other games too such as Golden Axe, Renegade, Pac-Land, After The War etc.  I downloaded some of them from:
https://www.everygamegoing.com/landingAuthor/index/author_id/6537/author_name/Rafal%20Miazga/Trying to find digital versions of Rod-Land, Renegade and some others cos it links to a site where you have to pay for cassette and i just want the rom :P
Found Rod-Land and some at https://www.zx-spectrum.cz/index.php?cat1=4&cat2=2&article_id=coloured.php
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Favorite CPC games: SwitchBlade, Stryker in the Crypts of Trogan, Turrican II, UN Squadron, Oh Mummy

Offline Vince

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Re: Rodland
« Reply #111 on: 13:12, 26 June 20 »

It's just that I have put side by side the two first stages to work on the same palette, but you're totally right, a single stage is half the width of this screen.


Good stuff, OneVision!  ;D 

I thought for a moment you had decided to opt for the NES version idea.

Problem is, when a game is designed as a one screener, that tight fast action would be completely ruined (in my mind) if it were expanded outwards like the NES version.


As you are would be fantastic !




Edit: random size tags?
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Offline Vince

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Re: Rodland
« Reply #112 on: 17:10, 26 June 20 »

It's just that I have put side by side the two first stages to work on the same palette, but you're totally right, a single stage is half the width of this screen.


So... OneVision, what's the score, are you taking on this project ?
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Offline Vince

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Re: Rodland
« Reply #113 on: 17:21, 26 June 20 »

It's just that I have put side by side the two first stages to work on the same palette, but you're totally right, a single stage is half the width of this screen.


I think I was tricked by the near seamless background. Because it scrolls left to right to arrive at level 2.


Would you do the first screen scroll from left to right or scrap it?


If I remember rightly it was the only level to do so.


The rest either switch to cut-scene or scroll up. Saying that, there is no reason to even bother with the scrolling, you could just fade in or cut to the next level.

Never thought waiting for the next level to arrive (finish scrolling in) added anything to the game anyway.
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Offline sigh

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Re: Rodland
« Reply #114 on: 17:45, 26 June 20 »

I think I was tricked by the near seamless background. Because it scrolls left to right to arrive at level 2.


Would you do the first screen scroll from left to right or scrap it?


If I remember rightly it was the only level to do so.


The rest either switch to cut-scene or scroll up. Saying that, there is no reason to even bother with the scrolling, you could just fade in or cut to the next level.

Never thought waiting for the next level to arrive (finish scrolling in) added anything to the game anyway.
On the Atari ST, the level scrolls up. I guess this was due to the scrolling abilities of the ST.
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Offline OneVision

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Re: Rodland
« Reply #115 on: 18:25, 26 June 20 »

So... OneVision, what's the score, are you taking on this project ?


Hello,


I'm already working with someone on the Wonderboy remake for OLD but I finished all sprites and animations.
TNZS for PLUS is on hold the time Alcon is finished.
I'd like to work on Rod Land for PLUS, why not with @sigh 's graphics if he's OK ?
But the main problem is to find a coder, as usual.

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Offline OneVision

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Re: Rodland
« Reply #116 on: 18:41, 26 June 20 »

Good stuff, OneVision!  ;D 

I thought for a moment you had decided to opt for the NES version idea.

Problem is, when a game is designed as a one screener, that tight fast action would be completely ruined (in my mind) if it were expanded outwards like the NES version.


As you are would be fantastic !




Edit: random size tags?




I think this game has been made for one screen action, as per arcade and should be adapted this way also.
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Offline Vince

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Re: Rodland
« Reply #117 on: 19:05, 26 June 20 »

On the Atari ST, the level scrolls up. I guess this was due to the scrolling abilities of the ST.



Yeah, exactly, but to be fair, it only scrolls that way for the first level.

I think the devs realised that is was quite jerky for whatever reason. If you watch a youtube of the Arcade playthrough, after that scroll every other is up, aside from those that just cut to the cut-scenes.



Hello,


I'm already working with someone on the Wonderboy remake for OLD but I finished all sprites and animations.
TNZS for PLUS is on hold the time Alcon is finished.
I'd like to work on Rod Land for PLUS, why not with @sigh 's graphics if he's OK ?
But the main problem is to find a coder, as usual.



Bonjour, mon ami, Hello mate!


I assumed you were a coder. Sorry.

I have an incredible respect for artists. As a coder who can't draw. I'd love to get a project going on the CPC but this is probably too big for a first byte.


I'm working on a similar game on the PC! It just shows how brilliant and much loved the game is!!
 :D



Edit: ^ comment added.
« Last Edit: 19:06, 26 June 20 by Vince »
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Offline sigh

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Re: Rodland
« Reply #118 on: 19:22, 26 June 20 »

I'd like to work on Rod Land for PLUS, why not with @sigh 's graphics if he's OK ?

Feel free to use them.
However - they were traced and modified from the arcade sprites and background tiles, so there may not be enough screen height in regards to the background tiles. It cuts off the top a little.
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Offline Vince

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Re: Rodland
« Reply #119 on: 19:28, 26 June 20 »
However - they were traced and modified from the arcade sprites and background tiles, so there may not be enough screen height in regards to the background tiles. It cuts off the top a little.
What do you mean by cuts off the top? They look right to me. It's the right scale 16x14 blocks. Not sure what I am missing? You've done a fine job.
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Offline sigh

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Re: Rodland
« Reply #120 on: 04:13, 27 June 20 »
The graphics are traced from the arcade and the arcade has more vertical pixel height than the CPC. The arcade is 256x224. The CPC vertical height only reaches 200.Therefore it is missing 24 pixels.



I had already realized this when tracing the sprites, but at the time, I had all these crazy ideas that some overscan could be used to gain the extra 24 pixels! I basically was looking to do a pixel perfect port of the arcade - using wide pixel instead of course :laugh: .
The missing 24 pixels at the top means that when the player puts a ladder at the top and climbs up, the player sprite would disappear.

How much that would affect the gameplay? It would be annoying, but not unplayable.


« Last Edit: 04:30, 27 June 20 by sigh »
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Offline Vince

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Re: Rodland
« Reply #121 on: 06:06, 27 June 20 »


Edit|Reply got superseded by a better answer.
« Last Edit: 11:52, 27 June 20 by Vince »
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Offline Axelay

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Re: Rodland
« Reply #122 on: 07:47, 27 June 20 »
The graphics are traced from the arcade and the arcade has more vertical pixel height than the CPC. The arcade is 256x224. The CPC vertical height only reaches 200.Therefore it is missing 24 pixels.


A standard CPC screen is any combination of height and width that totals 1024 characters or less - and fits on the screen of course.  Because you appear to have reduced the CPC screen's width to 32 characters (128 mode 0 pixels), that would allow for a height of up to 32 characters, or 256 pixels, so there's no reason you couldn't go 224 pixels high, no overscan required.
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Offline OneVision

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Re: Rodland
« Reply #123 on: 10:28, 27 June 20 »
Feel free to use them.
However - they were traced and modified from the arcade sprites and background tiles, so there may not be enough screen height in regards to the background tiles. It cuts off the top a little.


Thank you @sigh : I'll take some time to include your sprites (that looks better than mine) into the background I already did. To see how it works.
I assume you used a unique 16 color palettes for heroes bonus and items to take benefit from the HW sprites of the PLUS ? And 16 other colors for backgrounds or some enemies ?



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Offline Vince

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Re: Rodland
« Reply #124 on: 11:54, 27 June 20 »

A standard CPC screen is any combination of height and width that totals 1024 characters or less - and fits on the screen of course.  Because you appear to have reduced the CPC screen's width to 32 characters (128 mode 0 pixels), that would allow for a height of up to 32 characters, or 256 pixels, so there's no reason you couldn't go 224 pixels high, no overscan required.


Great! Much better reply than mine. I'd just said chop off the wooden bottom row and use that added space for headroom at the top of the screen!
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