After reading Shinobi -Control problems?! (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/games/shinobi-control-problems!/) , i played it a bit on my CPC and i must admit this is one of the best CPC games (it seems so laaagggyyy on winape but not on real CPC !)
BUT , graphics are soo horribles ! Long time i wanted to do it so finaly i decided to find someone to redo them.After , i'll re-integrate them in game and correct palettes.
You'll find some attached to this post, please note you need to use a new palette too (you can adapt it for +, i'll see if it is possible to add this feature) , a good idea would be to have a global palette this time.Palette change according to level (color 12->15) so don't care if palette is not correct there.Anyway graphics are just here to be used as template so this is not very important.
Some infos about dimensions (mode 0)
tiles : 8*16 (64)
Sprites 1 (hero and baddies) : 12*24 (80)
Sprites 2 (bonuses) : 12*24 (4)
Sprites 3 (weapons) : 6*5 (6)
Boss 1 : 22*97 (1)
Boss 1 hands : 14*17 (3)
Boss 1 fire : 8*13 (2)
Boss 2 : 120*81 (1)
Note , i'll just do this for graphics , no uber extra mode or features this time , time is lacking.
Is it possible to use the C64 sprite for the main character? That sprite was fantastic.
Yep, more , i think C64 gfx could be used as a base ;)
PErhaps with a bit more colours...
A great game but gfx can be better.
I hope you will make a good lifting. :)
Quote from: MacDeath on 17:26, 27 March 13
PErhaps with a bit more colours...
I think it's more important that the
right colours are used, rather than adding more. The CPC sprite has more colours than C64, but differs a lot from the arcade compared to the C64 version. They shuold of used the grey for the main sprite rather than the black blue combination.
QuoteThey shuold of used the grey for the main sprite rather than the black blue combination.
actually it is Dark Cyan... but yeah.
One thing i quite like is when you can manage to reserve 1 or 2 colours who are to be used only by the sprites or the backgrounds...
Its a subtle way (in mode0 of course) to differenciate well those 2 elements.
The shuriken bonus stage is well ported, colours are great. (slows a bit thoiugh during the fan sequence).
Let's Compare The classic ( Shinobi ) Series (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNf1j_UVRug#)
Also :
http://www.retrogamer.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8965 (http://www.retrogamer.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8965)
Concerning the port of the C64 sprite, are they at the same size?
Fano seemed to told he only wanted a cosmetic pack, so we'll have to follow the exact same tileset...
Unlike R-Type where he could do more heavy size modification (because he had the source code from speccy version), here it may not be that possible.
The CPC's shinobi sprite is very slim... which is quite understandable (it gain a few CPU & RAM I guess).
(http://www.cpc-power.com/images/ecran_fin/1926.png) (http://www.cpc-power.com/images/ecran_fin/1926.png)
But yeah, ported dirtily... :(
(graphically only)
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z31/emperorfossil/shinobi8.png) (http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z31/emperorfossil/shinobi8.png)
nose Vs. moustache..
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z31/emperorfossil/shinobi.png) (http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z31/emperorfossil/shinobi.png)(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z31/emperorfossil/shinobicpc.png) (http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z31/emperorfossil/shinobicpc.png)
160pixels vs 128pixels...
But yeah, "orange+pink+DarkGreen+DarkCyan+DarkRed" is totally a poorly choosen colour set for those walls..
Another forum thread with a few comparisons...
Shinobi [+Todos os jogos][+Mini Reviews] - Fórum UOL Jogos (http://forum.jogos.uol.com.br/_t_1133681)
and this :
Shinobi Comparison: Master System Vs NES Vs C64 (http://www.retro-sanctuary.com/Comparisons-Shinobi-2.html)
On CPC many tiles actually try too hard to use too much colours, and palette limitation means that some of the dark colours are replaced with colours of a wrong shade/hue.
Like I said, a mix of dark yellow, dark green, darkred and orange and pink (pastel red) can't be good.
The same as when they try too hard to get grey mixed with everything into a 7 gradiant shade...CPC can't do it!
Best way is to simplify the hues (shadows and lightnings) in the same "tune" if possible... and get more reasonnably precise pixel art too.
I also think the SegaMasterSystem's version may be helpfull to get some inspiration... after all it uses the "EGA full 64 palette" so is not that far from the CPC... and the display is in 256pix horizontal. So quite "Amstrad-Speccy" size friendly.
And this Sega MasterSystem version is said to be one of the best.
But because of ROM limitation, can tell the textures are great, tiles are quite simple, but hey, still good to get inspiration.
another good page to compare a bit...
Shinobi (1989) screenshots - MobyGames (http://www.mobygames.com/game/shinobi/screenshots)
Quote from: MacDeath on 21:01, 27 March 13
Concerning the port of the C64 sprite, are they at the same size?
Fano seemed to told he only wanted a cosmetic pack, so we'll have to follow the exact same tileset...
Unlike R-Type where he could do more heavy size modification (because he had the source code from speccy version), here it may not be that possible.
The CPC's shinobi sprite is very slim... which is quite understandable (it gain a few CPU & RAM I guess).
(http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z31/emperorfossil/shinobi8.png) (http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z31/emperorfossil/shinobi8.png)
nose Vs. moustache..
Regarding the size, what you say is probably very true as this would effect the hitbox dramatically. The C64 version is shorter and slimmer, but a I did a quick edit on the height and colours as an example. The width of the character wouldn't be a major issue as it looks as though it's the walking frames that aquire the width:
(http://i.imgur.com/ItHjFGT.gif)
The original CPC version has 6 colours while the version I did has 10.
But if you wanted to keep the colours the same amount, it could have a 6 colour version like this:
(http://i.imgur.com/fb8yUPn.gif)
Also removed the nose and moustache!
Quote from: sigh on 02:12, 28 March 13
Regarding the size, what you say is probably very true as this would effect the hitbox dramatically. The C64 version is shorter and slimmer, but a I did a quick edit on the height and colours as an example. The width of the character wouldn't be a major issue as it looks as though it's the walking frames that aquire the width:
(http://i.imgur.com/ItHjFGT.gif) (http://i.imgur.com/ItHjFGT.gif)
Also removed the nose and moustache!
Nice one ! color count is not an issue (as long you keep at least 3 colors to do color cycling and bosses weakpoints)
If I'm not mistaken, it looks like the C64 version, in its glorious 3 colours + transparent, is just two hardware sprites (multicolour size of 12x21 each) on top of each other. The odd size of C64 sprites is why the sprite is stumpy in this game (although in other games you'd be comparing against 8x16 mode 0 sprites so the C64 version often looked better because the sprites were bigger).
Just out of interest - how much effort would it take to give the game a 2 pxiel scroll instead of the current 4 pixel scroll it is using?
I'd say , rewrite the game engine :o
Quote from: fano on 11:03, 28 March 13
I'd say , rewrite the game engine :o
..and I'd say, PLEASE DONT SPEND ANYTIME DOING THAT!!!! :D
Definitely not necessary to do something that drastic to an already great game.
I agree totaly , the only thing missing here is good graphics !
Btw, i just finished a tool that rebuild a preview of the map according your modification on tileset using game data.Here is a test for the 2 first levels.I just need to cleanup a bit the code and to add more option to command line ;)
The second level is shockingly sparse!
Does this mean that you could effectively recolour the level using this map, in which you would then use your tool to transfer the changes back into the game with a click of a button?
/me likes where this is going.
Not exactly as the tileset must keep the same organisation.You need to modifiy it (it is in the folders) and you launch the program to preview the result of your modifications.I provide tools for this method but this is not the only one, i know totO would use PSP directly for that.
About tools, i am trying to keep them simple as possible, you have just to launch a program , everything is automated.I am still building something you can call a "kit" and i'll post it when it will be finished.
Note now we do have informations about levels, that will be possible to import them in some editing program to adjust some little things if needed.
Btw, i think that may be possible to restore some other Richard Aplin games like Double Dragon with the tools created for Shinobi when the job will be finished.
Quote from: fano on 17:42, 28 March 13
Not exactly as the tileset must keep the same organisation.You need to modifiy it (it is in the folders) and you launch the program to preview the result of your modifications.I provide tools for this method but this is not the only one, i know totO would use PSP directly for that.
About tools, i am trying to keep them simple as possible, you have just to launch a program , everything is automated.I am still building something you can call a "kit" and i'll post it when it will be finished.
Note now we do have informations about levels, that will be possible to import them in some editing program to adjust some little things if needed.
Btw, i think that may be possible to restore some other Richard Aplin games like Double Dragon with the tools created for Shinobi when the job will be finished.
Just to be sure - I'm guessing that the tiles would have to be exactly the same size too?
and one more thing....
Would it be possible to atleast get some sound on the 64Kb version?
Quote from: sigh on 17:55, 28 March 13
Just to be sure - I'm guessing that the tiles would have to be exactly the same size too?Would it be possible to atleast get some sound on the 64Kb version?
Shinobi's tiles are 8*16 mode 0 pixels but to simplifies things, they are in a same vertical stripe.About other Richard Aplin games i don't know actually but i'll study them too i think.About music, sadly, they rely on 64K expansion.
What about the sound effects for 64kb? (pushing really hard :P )
8*16 - the standard cpc tile mode is good:)
Regarding the animation frames of the main sprites - even if the graphics were cleaned up, the animations are still very choppy. Would there be an issue in adding extra frames of animation?
I haven't checked the sprites yet, but it seems that some badies re-use thesome parts of the Shinobi's legs (the yellow socks...)
Gotta check for that and try to handle this.
128K version is mostly single loading and extra sounds... so the whole tiles/sprites is quite limited due to being sorted for a 64K game I guess...
Is the Tape version a multiloading game?
Concerning the tile maping (level map), if it can't be modified, we must keep in mind some tiles were used at multiple place and functions...
So to try to get drastic colour changes may lead to some oddities elswhere...
Quote from: MacDeath on 18:13, 28 March 13Concerning the tile maping (level map), if it can't be modified, we must keep in mind some tiles were used at multiple place and functions...
So to try to get drastic colour changes may lead to some oddities elswhere...
If you keep a global approach of your work, you may not have problems.Anyway, i'll update the "kit" to update the game easily so that will be possible to track down theses problems.
Your right about the re-use of legs on some enemies. The code will call up that particular legs graphic unless it can some how be modified to call up a completely different looking new one. I wonder if this is possible without too much trouble...
I'm sure it still multiloaded on my 128kb.
yep , it is multiloaded on 128K.
I just see about theses legs, i'll try to find a solution but that will not be easy :(
I bet this will end up into a +128K mega game wankfest... ;D
After Rick128+ and R-Type128, we're awaiting you around the corner!!!
(on t'attend au tournand...)
Quote from: MacDeathI bet this will end up into a +128K mega game wankfest
How much? (I will won for sure)
I took the liberty to produce a mock up at the bottom(crates ripped from C64), though some bits could still do with some (very minimal) detail such as the ceiling, shop sign etc:
(http://i.imgur.com/fKb3uGx.gif) (http://i.imgur.com/fKb3uGx.gif)
The original background has 10 colours while the mock up has 12. With the shinobi sprite in the pic, the mock up bumps up to 13. (Original CPC bumps to 12 with sprite I think, though the pic posted has some incorrect colour values.)
I simplified the colour of the backgrounds by removing any noise apart from the floor. I was trying to get it as close to the arcade as possible as the backgrounds are rather subdued in the arcade version, but the CPC palette is way too bright for this:) I would say that for this game, to keep the backgrounds quite simple without all the noise of the original CPC.
Anyway - just something to get the ball rolling.
you could make a bit more use of ditherings to add some texture to the "stone" (the bricks). and don't be afraid to use more black for the jointures between bricks which could then use Dark Yellow + pastel yellow dithering.
Not quite sure about the floor but it could use some dots of black too.
I'm not satified but the back foot of the shinobi sprite. looks like being transparency???
The Title "Shinobi" should change into "Super Shinoby 128K extended version by Easter eggs".
I guess you shouldn't try too hard to look exactly like the arcade, because (especially tyhis level) it uses a lot of greys and browns...
But yeah, that a nice promising mockup.
I like the mockups, palette choice is good for me , just missing hilighting on bricks for example but that will come.About ground , i always been surprised by the green choice, does Shinobi takes place in a garden ? :laugh:
About working method , take a look to this post's image http://cpcrulez.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5034&p=22311#p22305 (http://cpcrulez.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5034&p=22311#p22305)
This is a great idea if you want to use Grafx2 as in tile mode, every change you make on map will change the tileset.When you want to save tileset, just reduce width to 8 and voilà !
I'll add this feature into tools ;)
[EDIT]
So after searching a bit, color 0 to 11 are globals (there are a few exceptions) and color from 12 to 15 are variables according to level.
Quote from: MacDeath on 08:23, 29 March 13
you could make a bit more use of ditherings to add some texture to the "stone" (the bricks). and don't be afraid to use more black for the jointures between bricks which could then use Dark Yellow + pastel yellow dithering.
Not quite sure about the floor but it could use some dots of black too.
I'm not satified but the back foot of the shinobi sprite. looks like being transparency???
The Title "Shinobi" should change into "Super Shinoby 128K extended version by Easter eggs".
I guess you shouldn't try too hard to look exactly like the arcade, because (especially tyhis level) it uses a lot of greys and browns...
But yeah, that a nice promising mockup.
Ditherings on the blocks, I found is a really bad idea as the main sprite was getting lost. I played with the browns and oranges (in which they ended up looking like gold bars) with a simple tone, but the end result just felt to intrusive to my liking. The CPC version has too much dither and the arcade is very clean looking. I also wanted those tones but in the end, found it was better off without them.
I find black dots incredibly distracting and "In your face" especially where it's peppered all over the ground. The character sprite is a grey tone so black would be better off used on the incoming projectiles. There's no need for blacks on the walls as it already has the brown tone and the highlight.
The suggestion of black is a complete no no to me.
The back foot of shinobi does fall into transparency, but it has the the yellow shin guard to make it stand out and really wont matter at all once he's moving around, so it shouldn't be a problem. There are also many different ground textures so it may look a little lost on this level, but not in others.
Quote from: fano on 09:44, 29 March 13
I like the mockups, palette choice is good for me , just missing hilighting on bricks for example but that will come.About ground , i always been surprised by the green choice, does Shinobi takes place in a garden ? :laugh:
There are white highlights on the bricks but they could be pixel thicker. I tried this and it looks fine,
If someone is interested, all the maps of the game (except bosses rooms) are there : http://cpcrulez.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5034&p=22317#p22317 (http://cpcrulez.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5034&p=22317#p22317)
With white highlights on walls and on the pillar. The CPC seems to have two different types of wall patterns that are tiled one row after another. I also managed to remove a colour so the background is now 11 colours just like the original CPC version:
(http://i.imgur.com/FTBJIQI.gif) (http://i.imgur.com/FTBJIQI.gif)
Quote from: fano on 15:40, 29 March 13
If someone is interested, all the maps of the game (except bosses rooms) are there : http://cpcrulez.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5034&p=22317#p22317 (http://cpcrulez.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5034&p=22317#p22317)
I cant see where to download on that page..?
I would of liked to have helped you on this but I've got projects that still need finishing so I wouldn't want to promise anything. I still wouldn't mind checking out those maps to see how the levels are laid out. :)
I understand ;)
Sorry , i forgot you need to register on cpcrulez to get attachments.There are the files.There are globals maps with tileset and section maps with correct palettes.
I had a quick look and the levels have between 10 and 12 colours and they don't seem that complex either. Do you have any info on the main sprite and enemies?
Also - how hard would it be to turn the hud/score screen into mode 1 in order to save some kb? That kb could be used for an extra pair of legs or a sound effect for 64k machines?
Another screen which connects to the first one I did:
(http://i.imgur.com/2ynoKkB.gif)
The arcade shinobi uses a very limited palette when it comes to the backgrounds which is very challenging to the CPC. The palette of the C64 is definitely better suited to this game with it's variety of flesh tones and grays.
I've noticed that the CPC version lacks the fence in the background which the main character can jump behind.
tried a bit of palette swap, unfinished but hey.
Of course to re-draw a few pixels is necessary, but a clever palette choice can really do good to those existing graphics.
also : good old interview from the man himself.
I guess it would be nice if we could get in touch with him, the way the R-Type original team came here...
It is implied in the interview that they hacked to Arcade boards to ripp the graphics...
As he used some crossdev stuffs (on a "PC" I guess) it was then converted on a PC.
Do someone have his mail address? Fano should send him a little mail.
Richard Aplin - Astro Gaming, Inc., Verizon... (http://www.yatedo.com/p/Richard+Aplin/normal/03bf02b2aa0ffdf34f08be8182d51e2b)
QuoteRidiculous in Bug hunting - The Worst Bug I Ever Had
I wrote the game "Shinobi" on the Amstrad CPC (z80-based UK home computer, circa 1986). Symptom: random crash on end-of-level boss, very hard to repro.Cause: In-game music was provided by a 3rd party music driver (supplied as a binary blob of code+data) as was common in those days. It turned out the music data for the end-of-level boss tune contained a bad command code, this command code caused the music player to read a semi-random address; in practice this ended up being in the display framebuffer. The bug was such that if the pixel byte it read was greater than 240 then the music player would trash another part of main memory (my game code), which would crash a little while after.To trigger this bug you had to be playing the boss, and when this (inaudible) error- note in the music soundtrack played, a specific screen pixel had to be a certain colour, in which case it would corrupt ram and the game would crash in otherwise innocent code a frame later. Hardest bug ever.
another thing :
Richard Aplin's Startup-Sequences on the Amiga! (http://whdloadrules.tripod.com/richard_aplin_startup_seq.html)
this guy seems amasing, a moderner interview could be cool too.
Well, what Shinobi on CPC really would need would be proper hardware scrolling.
Quote from: TFM/FS on 00:11, 31 March 13
Well, what Shinobi on CPC really would need would be proper hardware scrolling.
It would have to be re-written. The game is still fantastic to play even if the scrolling is choppy:)
Personally I would take sound effects over scrolling on a stock 64kb, as this what hurts the game most for me.
Now I'm going to finish off that first mission stage.....
I agree, Shinobi wasn't the most smooth thing, but it managed a decent framerate, was quite responsive concerning the controls, and had awesome chiptunes, transitional screens in sampled voice+"overscan".
Gameplay is really good.
Good graphics is the only missing detail that would turn it into an incredible game experience.
Despite being messy, they are still "faithfull" to the arcade anyway, or at least supposed to be..
On CPC there is only one magic and sword is missing too.
Quote from: MacDeath on 07:38, 31 March 13
Despite being messy, they are still "faithfull" to the arcade anyway, or at least supposed to be..
Graphically I feel they differ from the arcade tremondously. It doesn't resemble a shinobi game frome the drawn sprites all the way through to the colours and doesn't seem to try to be faithful to the arcade. It really is a difficult one for the CPC and I think that's why I've been enjoying this challenge :) .
Quote from: kawickboy on 07:44, 31 March 13
On CPC there is only one magic and sword is missing too.
@Fano: Any detail on animation frames for the sprites?
Yes. I think some of the melee moves are missing too like the punch and flykick. You get a bonus at the end of the level if you complete it by only using melee moves and not throwing the shuriken stars.
Sorry for my late reply sigh.i am often at work actually.sprites infos are on my first message and you can find them in the zip i attached to.i'll reply more when i'll quit work and have more time than sleeping ;)
Quote from: fano on 16:29, 31 March 13
Sorry for my late reply sigh.i am often at work actually.sprites infos are on my first message and you can find them in the zip i attached to.i'll reply more when i'll quit work and have more time than sleeping ;)
I just downloaded (didn't see it before.)
There's a lot of free room for extra limbs/torso/legs on the sprite sheet. I'm wondering if it's possible to compact the sprites in the sheet more and update their postions and co-ordinates in the code, as I was thinking of changing the animation of when he jumps to look like the one's in the arcade? Also, it would be nice to use the sprite of the level 1 boss From the C64.
Mission 1 1st Level:
(http://i.imgur.com/JvUjnSk.gif) (http://i.imgur.com/JvUjnSk.gif)
This is as close to the arcade I was able to get it to. The actual level arrangement of the original CPC version is different to the arcade especially when it comes to the buildings in the background. I'm hoping that I have accidently added an extra tile as I changed the look of some of them to match the arcade, but also removed tiles like the 2 tile wall crack and used those for the bottom of the door instead. Again - hoping that the tiles can be rearranged to make this small adjustment possible, but it's not going to be a problem if it cant.
I'm now going to layout the tiles over a very long strip (8x1024) as I'm guessing this is what needs to be done in order to see the results?
Nice done, because you understand the rules:
- "dark" colors for the background
- "middle" colors for the foreground
- "bright" colors for sprites and objects
With that, no more gameplay visibility problem!
And you have used the arcade tiles and palette as reference ; A second good point.
I hope that you will impress me for the next stages too! :)
Quote from: TotO on 16:32, 01 April 13
Nice done, because you understand the rules:
- "dark" colors for the background
- "middle" colors for the foreground
- "bright" colors for sprites and objects
With that, no more gameplay visibility problem!
And you have used the arcade tiles and palette as reference ; A second good point.
I hope that you will impress me for the next stages too! :)
Well, there maybe some visibility issues here and there, but hopefully nothing that will be too gameplay breaking.
(http://i.imgur.com/g033z4V.gif) (http://i.imgur.com/g033z4V.gif) (http://i.imgur.com/VSC6vTk.gif)
I had to redraw Monroe from scratch >:( . I wanted to use the C64 version but it was a different size and the current CPC version is zoomed in.
(http://i.imgur.com/3MlI2pY.gif) (http://i.imgur.com/3MlI2pY.gif)
As there was space on the tile sheet, I was able to add another brick tile that had a dark brown block like in the arcade version. :)
Lovely Marilyn ! :-*
Redraw is always the choice to do better.
No more needed to put the name to recognize her. :D
Good to have used extra tiles for the wall... But, I'm not sure that you see the sky on the broken parts?
No enough tiles to put building instead of the purple only color?
(on the first map, you forget a case shadow, but I'm sure you know that)
Quote from: TotO on 21:57, 01 April 13
Lovely Marilyn ! :-*
Redraw is always the choice to do better.
No more needed to put the name to recognize her. :D
Good to have used extra tiles for the wall... But, I'm not sure that you see the sky on the broken parts?
No enough tiles to put building instead of the purple only color?
(on the first map, you forget a case shadow, but I'm sure you know that)
I forgot to put the shadow on the first crate :) . Also in the last pic I posted on the previous page, the brownish red horizontal stripey tile (under the small windows) has been replaced with the vertical stripes (under the bit window) as there wasn't enough space on the sheet. I had a feeling about this so I had already planned and drew that tile just in case. This particular tile is also used to create a larger crate like structure what was in the arcade. It's not quite the same, but it's there in some form.
The arcade version - you can see the sky through the broken wall, but it also the buildings which has parallax scrolling on that level. There's no more space on the tiles sheet to create a new building to fit onto that scene.
Hehe. OK, so it's nice like that. :)
Hi
Shinobi it's one of my favs game on cpc, I'm watching this thread every 5 minutes :laugh:
I don't know if this are the final colors, but the sky in the broken parts is more bluish than purple on the arcade I think...
Another thing that is missing on the cpc port, well not only on the cpc i suppose, is the pic at the beginning of every level, that shows the map and the final boss on the current level you are, I don't think that adding it will be a hard work, cause it's only a static pic...
About the colors, one thing that intrigue me is, why the programmer of the game choose so diferent colors regarding the arcade?, even the boxs tiles are different, perhaps he was reusing tiles from another game?
Anyway for me a top game on cpc, and i'm very excited about this gfx rework
Keep on going guys ;)
Sure, it's a 8bit computer port and arcade features miss... But, the goal here (reading the topic title) is to fix the awful GFx to look better, like you can see on the great sigh screens. No more.
Because there is no pattern on the purple colour, it may be nice to use the black coulour instead.
Quote from: Joseman on 00:37, 02 April 13
Hi
Shinobi it's one of my favs game on cpc, I'm watching this thread every 5 minutes :laugh:
I don't know if this are the final colors, but the sky in the broken parts is more bluish than purple on the arcade I think...
Another thing that is missing on the cpc port, well not only on the cpc i suppose, is the pic at the beginning of every level, that shows the map and the final boss on the current level you are, I don't think that adding it will be a hard work, cause it's only a static pic...
About the colors, one thing that intrigue me is, why the programmer of the game choose so diferent colors regarding the arcade?, even the boxs tiles are different, perhaps he was reusing tiles from another game?
Keep on going guys ;)
I'll have a look at that sky and will try and find an alternative.
The map and boss screen would take up quite a bit of data but Fano would know more about this. Maybe in mode 1?
Regarding the artist, they most likely didn't have time to experiment with different palette combinations and it's quicker and easier to use colour ramps that have enough of the same colour to go from darkest to brightest:
Dark Red -Red -Orange-Yellow-White
Tthe CPC palette is too bright for this sort game, so colours can clash easily.
* I really need to slow down when I'm typing as my spelling and grammar just flies out the window! :-[
Heh, yeah, the CPC palette isn't exactly sombre, so matching arcade's colours is difficult. The mockups are good though as they highlight active and inactive screen elements - always important with background graphics.
This is a very nice work , Sigh !
I think we'll implement this ;)
Btw i noticed the "deja vu textile waste" windows has not been remade.Another thing is did you use the same tileset for both maps you edited ?
Quote from: sigh on 10:43, 02 April 13The map and boss screen would take up quite a bit of data but Fano would know more about this. Maybe in mode 1?
That depends how bigger it is.
I really like the clear style, it reminds me of the CPC version of Rolling Thunder (which I consider a success).
But I'm a bit worried that this map's new palette doesn't leave enough colors for enemies, effects, etc.
It would be interesting to map out which enemies appear on each (sub-level), in order to determine which colors can be re-used for enemies and tiles.
Quote from: fano on 12:27, 02 April 13
This is a very nice work , Sigh !
I think we'll implement this ;)
Btw i noticed the "deja vu textile waste" windows has not been remade.Another thing is did you use the same tileset for both maps you edited ?
That depends how bigger it is.
I'll have a look at that "deja vu" texture. It's a very tight space and there is no more tile space so the font is a bit tricky to stylize.
The tile sheet is the same one that you sent in the folder, so it is used for both maps. I just laid the new ones on top of the existing ones, though some of the order may have changed.
What size would you recommend for the mode 1 boss and map picture? Could the hud also be mode 1?
Quote from: Yves Rizoud on 13:57, 02 April 13
I really like the clear style, it reminds me of the CPC version of Rolling Thunder (which I consider a success).
But I'm a bit worried that this map's new palette doesn't leave enough colors for enemies, effects, etc.
It would be interesting to map out which enemies appear on each (sub-level), in order to determine which colors can be re-used for enemies and tiles.
The bullets are the most important feature that needs to be seen and they will be a full black/dark colour. The shurikens from the shinobi will have a black outer edge so you can see those too. For the enemy colours, they may not look exactly like the arcade and may need need to be recoloured, as they will need to work on every level. This shouldn't pose too much of a problem, though I am expecting some visibilty issues here and there, but nothing too detrimental.
Can you cross hatch,on certain parts, to create an illusion of not so bright colours?
Quote from: Puresox on 14:48, 02 April 13
Can you cross hatch,on certain parts, to create an illusion of not so bright colours?
Nope.
I tried that on the walls and the results with the dithering weren't nice at all with the brown, orange or grey. Dithering dark colours that are similar palette is okay(CPC colours), but otherwise it's best to keep it clean as it ends up as a pixel mess, especially when visibility is concerned.
Quote from: sigh on 14:21, 02 April 13What size would you recommend for the mode 1 boss and map picture? Could the hud also be mode 1?
Seems we misanterstood, i was speaking about the size of the map.The game area will stay in mode 0.About mode 1 hud, was thinking to add it later , i do not know if this is possible because i do not know if ingame interrupts are stables or can be stablilized.
Quote from: fano on 18:12, 02 April 13
Seems we misanterstood, i was speaking about the size of the map.
Ahh okay.
Quote from: fano on 18:12, 02 April 13
About mode 1 hud, was thinking to add it later , i do not know if this is possible because i do not know if ingame interrupts are stables or can be stablilized.
Mode 1 hud would be good for this as there is nothing fancy about the mode 0 version. In fact I would even consider removing the "SHINOBI" title on the hud itself as it serves no purpose.
The hostage sprite expands 1 pixel above and 3 pixels below what's currently drawn (the extra lines are filled with transparency).
It could expand 3 more pixels below, but then this part is "below the ground".
And be careful that part of this sprite is used in the HUD, for remaining hostages, so the extra pixel above isn't really usable - unless you use it for something that's meant to be invisible on HUD background, such as extra black outline.
Long story short : hostage sprite can be 9x21. The top 8x8 is shown in the hud.
edit : here's a try at hostage:
(http://i46.tinypic.com/fkz5z6.gif)
Okay thanks.
(http://i.imgur.com/fyiZEUP.gif)
Edited the sprite so that it uses the colours of the shinobi. I think that all the hostage sprites, special effects and projectiles should try to use the shinobi colours so that the rest can be used for the enemies.
It'sa shame that you dont get to fight the final boss on Mission 5 :(
After re-pixelling the Shinobi walk yesterday, all the normal thug enemies share the same legs as shinobi. I also noticed that there are some missing enemies like the Commando guy. Animation wise - the walk cycle is the biggest animation in the entire game and that was only 4 frames on the CPC. I created a 6 frame version like in the arcade which is played at a very fast rate. Does anyone know how many FPS the cpc version runs at?
19-25 wild guess !
Subhunter runs at 25 - now compare ;-) My guess it 5-8
Quote from: TFM/FS on 19:27, 04 April 13
Subhunter runs at 25 - now compare ;-) My guess it 5-8
NO WAY :o !!!
It cant be moving at that frame rate. It must surely be above 10!
Well, then I have to take another look or .... patch it with a "Frame Counter" :laugh:
It may take usualy no more than 80Knops so i'd say 50/4 fps usually but i'll check that ;)
[EDIT]After lokking at , it takes something like 83-100Knops so 10fps but it can go easily to more than 100Knops so under 10fps.
Quote from: fano on 06:53, 05 April 13
It may take usualy no more than 80Knops so i'd say 50/4 fps usually but i'll check that ;)
[EDIT]After lokking at , it takes something like 83-100Knops so 10fps but it can go easily to more than 100Knops so under 10fps.
So between 8 - 10 fps.
I didn't think that the frame rate was that low as I expecting somewhere between 12 - 18 fps.
deleted
Quote from: fano on 06:53, 05 April 13
It may take usualy no more than 80Knops so i'd say 50/4 fps usually but i'll check that ;)
[EDIT]After lokking at , it takes something like 83-100Knops so 10fps but it can go easily to more than 100Knops so under 10fps.
Hi Fano,
I was wondering how checking the nops taken between two frames ?
I mean, using the nop counter and winape.
How do you proceed ?
Quote from: Xifos on 10:54, 06 April 13I was wondering how checking the nops taken between two frames ?
I mean, using the nop counter and winape.
How do you proceed ?
I find the main loop, usually looking at stack and a bit of observation (main loop are usually a bunch of calls and jp at end) then i put a break point and use winape nop counter to see timing between to frames.
Ok, thanks Fano i got it.
Shinobi is over 83000 nops.
I even tried Rick Dangerous, which i thought was 50 hz.
I found it was 25 hz (39000 nops), and had slowdowns at 17 hz (59000 nops).
I thought Shinobi was 4 vbl :(
10 fps:
(http://i.imgur.com/4CH9pEk.gif)
Not the smoothess of animations, but the arcade walk and crouch walk, look quite choppy too.
(http://i.imgur.com/fyiZEUP.gif)
this "baby" sprite was so anoying on the CPC version.
Now it looks like something.
Fano, any news on the palette ? I mean, what degree of liberty do we gain over the original, and which contraints are remaining ? The biggest constraint IMO is if color 0 has to stay black : We need black on the hero sprite too (a color > 0 ), so this means there would need to be two black entries in the 16-color palette at all times.
edit: By the way, reference on the arcade Shinobi seems hard to find, no sprite rips seem to be available. I've set up MAME at home and recorded save points at each map ~70% of the game; if somebody needs specific references (for example the animation frames of the enemy ninjas), I can spend some time saving screenshots.
Sorry , i forgot to post there , colors from 1 to 11 are globals, they do not change with level.Colors 12,13,14,15 can be changed for each section.
Btw , color 0 must not be used in sprites as it is transparent color , if you need black , you must attribute it to one color.
No way , to use mame tile/sprite viewer for arcade ?
I browsed all the graphics during game, and the character sprites were not visible, only fonts, tiles and large graphics. From what I understand of the MAME docs, it depends on the ROM : some are not decoded (known) enough to expose all graphics.
I mean if we use color #0 for dark red, it will make the entire GUI background dark red too.
Moving black to a different color slot requires finding every piece of code that 'paints' the GUI : for example when you lose a life it gets overwritten by a color 0 rectangle, if black is moved to color 5, this rectangle must be painted in color 5.
Quote from: Yves Rizoud on 13:44, 12 April 13
it depends on the ROM : some are not decoded (known) enough to expose all graphics.
even the bootlegs?
it's a shame that an emulator like winkawaks doesn't support shinobi, because it can desactivate layers and let alone the sprites for a perfect rip...
I didn't try the bootlegs, it may be worth a shot. But if the sprites are 16x16 blocks in random order, it may not be very helpful.
Anyway, perfect rips is not needed here because the specs are widely different, the CPC version already dictates the number, size, and timing of each frame of animation.
I'm not even speaking of backgrounds, two screenshots are often enough to get the "mood" of a map and redraw all the CPC tiles. And another option is to watch a longplay on youtube to locate a specific part of a map, even if the paused image is not pixel-perfect.
Sweet! The graphics are much better now - the original CPC graphics were quite bad in places, with some terrible colour choices.
Wahey!
Welcome Rich.
OMG... the real Richard Aplin ??
:o
Welcome.
Also thank you for this sweet well playable shinobi version.
Could you explain to us why the graphics were like this? Were you really porting graphics directly from the Arcade with automatic/calculated conversion?
Thanks for FlySpy Mr Aplin, loved that game. :)
I remember seeing you on some forum or was it news many years ago, you were trying to get a game programmers job in the USA. I hope all went well and that you now will return to coding for the CPC.
The community would have loved that! :)
Hey ! You're welcome richard, nice to see you here !
Maybe you have a reply for this long time question, who made graphics in your amstrad games ?
(Seems i am the luckiest cpc 'hacker')
Welcome Mr. Aplin!!! :)
I always have been a big fan of your CPC/Amiga works, you always tried to push the hardware for giving us the best versions even if that means making the game 128 KBs exclusive or adding extras for the 128 KBs machines as the bigger screen in E-Swat or samples & music for Shinobi :)
And i had a lot of fun with your hidden messages, easter eggs (Final Fight Amiga) and startup-sequences, too ;D
If there is anybody that it doesn't know who is Mr. Aplin, he made a few of the best cpc games (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=staff&lenom=Richard%20APLIN) and don't forget to read this nice but short interview (http://web.archive.org/web/20070806024252/http://tacgr.emuunlim.com/interviews/interviews.php?interview=1) from a long years ago :)
.
.
.
Quote from: fano on 05:29, 14 April 13(Seems i am the luckiest cpc 'hacker')
I hate you xDDDDD ... not really, because thanks to you, the old rockers return ;)
Hi!
Various people did the graphics;
Going back as far as Fly Spy (which is really going back.. 1985/6) I dd the graphics, same as for for my first few mastertronic conversions games (C64 versions of 'The Islands of Dr Destructo' (CPC originally) and 'UCM' (Spectrum) )
After about a year working in-house at mastertronic (most obvious thing I did then was Invade-a-load on C64, again my gfx)
All the binary design/cml games had graphics done by different people; at the time of Shinobi they were hand-drawn (not especially well) by someone, later on they started using frame grabbers on the arcade board - which at the time produced fairly poor results so stuff was extensively re-touched; obviously background gfx needed to be block-based so this chopping up was done by hand also.
If I recall DD1/DD2 were frame-grabber-and-retouching, as was ESWAT and Line Of Fire.
The most interesting one was Final Fight, where I spent the time to pull apart the arcade board, read the roms and extracted the real graphics. It took a while to get everything (e.g. finding the color palettes in the roms, all the block maps for the different parallax layer backgrounds) but I got there in the end. The bummer then was that I had to brutally resample them with fewer colours, less frames, etc.
I can't recall a single instance of getting help from Sega, Capcom etc. We got a PCB and... that was it. Only with FF did I get the time to rip the graphics; in all other cases things were too rushed (and it was too much of an unknown whether the gfx could be ripped from the board successfully).
Hi Mr Aplin,
Since you are here, maybe you could do the cpc version of Street Fighter 2 ?
;)
Ok, i'm leaving !
:D
(well i already asked Fano to do it, but he refused)
Quote from: RichAplin on 19:25, 13 April 13
Sweet! The graphics are much better now - the original CPC graphics were quite bad in places, with some terrible colour choices.
Hi Rich! Nice to see you on the forum.
Regarding the Shinobi game, what was the reason for the missing final boss? Also, there is no speech for "Mission 5"?
and I wonder how much the community would have to pay to get someone like Aplin to code a new quality game for the CPC. Sometimes I have been fantasizing about hiring a my own chinese coding team to do games for my dear Amstrad CPC ;D
I'd say, no money needed just c'mon help us ;D
Quote from: ivarf on 16:00, 15 April 13
and I wonder how much the community would have to pay to get someone like Aplin to code a new quality game for the CPC. Sometimes I have been fantasizing about hiring a my own chinese coding team to do games for my dear Amstrad CPC ;D
How much so you pay for a game?
Please Gryzor, do something, the great Richard Aplin can't stay a "speccy" like that, promote him immediatly!
Also please mister Aplin, don't be afraid by us.
Yes we are still fans of those useless 8bit computers, but we can be nice guys too and some of us even have a normal family life and decent jobs.
Now the question : were the sources kepts safely and still in your possession or were they destroyed into oblivion by some flood, leaking roof, fire, hysterical ex-GF or whatever accident??
:)
Source code... heh no I don't have the src for any old games I wrote; generally it just gets left on floppies (or more recently old hard drives) of various machines until one day they get thrown out.. you can imagine.
I think I wrote Shinobi on an old 512K RAM Amstrad 80286 PC (remember those?) with a 10MB hard drive and PDS (development system) - that was a pretty deluxe rig; PDS was lovely. I wrote all my later CPC stuff on that machine
Fly Spy I wrote in my bedroom using a CPC 464 w/tape deck until about 3/4way through I finally got a 3" disk drive.
I don't know how many copies most stuff sold; I know Fly Spy for mastertronic did about 40k copies.
It's funny how things change; the CPC series machines sold maybe 3-4 million, the C64 sold maybe 15 million, and the most recent game I worked on has ...errr.. 23,959,940 users.... mostly young girls. Heh.
Anyway, I'd say that CPC Shinobi was the "funnest" game I wrote by a fairly large margin - oddly Final Fight (Amiga) was probably one of the technically cleverest games yet people absolutely fucking _hate_ it. Any footage of Amiga FF on youtube practically has death threats in the comments. It amuses me :-)
Rich
Hello,
Mr Aplin, you have said "PDS" in you last post. Can it be this computer (Philips PMDS 4400) ?
Some pictures of a recently saved one : Index of /PMDS (http://irios.free.fr/PMDS/)
If it's so, I would be very interested if you could tell us what were the capabilities of this hardware.
T&J/GPA
PDS development system - CPCWiki (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/PDS_development_system)
Quote from: RichAplin on 22:42, 15 April 13
Anyway, I'd say that CPC Shinobi was the "funnest" game I wrote by a fairly large margin - oddly Final Fight (Amiga) was probably one of the technically cleverest games yet people absolutely fucking _hate_ it. Any footage of Amiga FF on youtube practically has death threats in the comments. It amuses me :-)
Rich
Final Fight amiga seems ok to me, there are less colors than supernes but it's normal.
It's great, well in my opinion...
Could you tell us what do you think normal for software scrolling games on cpc, i mean the frame rate you can get considering the hardware we have and the gameplay you need ?
For exemple, shinobi is 5 vbl, it's impossible to do less, is it ?
I am not saying it's bad or something like that, it's just a question from the poor programmer i am.
;)
Scrolling;
Most CPC games (and most of mine) used 'software scrolling'
"Fly Spy" used hardware scrolling on the CPC but it's a significant pain because
a) the 6845 doesn't let you split the screen into scrolling/non-scrolling areas; i.e. you can't raster-split it (see FlySpy where I blanked the top portion of the screen when scrolling)
but worse;
b) once you h/w scroll, your video memory is no longer linearly mapped, i.e. it has a point where it wraps around, which is a real PITA because then all your sprite/display routines etc have to be able to cope with potentially drawing half a sprite in one part of memory and half in another. This makes shit a lot more complicated and fiddly (+ potentially slow).
c) with software scroll you obviously have two options;
c1) you can either copy+move the display memory with an LDIR or similar (although a series of LDI's is faster, bizarrely) and then fill in the new gfx around the edges...
c2) or you can redraw the whole display each time from the tilemap.
Many people ended up doing (c2) because it has a number of advantages;
it's easier to implement, runs about the same speed regardless of which direction (or how fast) you scroll, you can animate tiles easily, and most usefully of all you don't need to erase any sprites because you're redrawing the whole screen each time. The constant-speed thing was quite important for games.
As for your actual question - the frame rate? It depends how big your display area is and how much you optimize the tile drawing code. :-)
In Shinobi specifically I recall that several of the end-of-level bosses just used a single-colour background (maybe with a simple floor) which meant I had that much more time to draw the sprites, but the main in-game backgrounds were just regular maps.
What is your opinion of the Amstrad CPC464/664 6128 etc... Rich? I would be interested to know. What work are you involved with at the moment,if you don't mind me asking?
Quote from: RichAplin on 17:12, 16 April 13
Scrolling;
Most CPC games (and most of mine) used 'software scrolling'
"Fly Spy" used hardware scrolling on the CPC but it's a significant pain because
a) the 6845 doesn't let you split the screen into scrolling/non-scrolling areas; i.e. you can't raster-split it (see FlySpy where I blanked the top portion of the screen when scrolling)
It is possible to split it into a section that hardware scrolls and a section that is static. It's a well known technique now, probably not so well known back in the day.
It's called "rupture". It involves changing the screen height with r4 and turning off vsync generation (r7>r4) for one section, then for the lower section, turning back on vsync (r7<r4).
It's a bit more tricky that if we had a real programmable raster interrupt and a screen split facility (which the amstrad plus has both of).
but worse;
Quote from: RichAplin on 17:12, 16 April 13
b) once you h/w scroll, your video memory is no longer linearly mapped, i.e. it has a point where it wraps around, which is a real PITA because then all your sprite/display routines etc have to be able to cope with potentially drawing half a sprite in one part of memory and half in another. This makes shit a lot more complicated and fiddly (+ potentially slow).
yes, this is true. Where it wraps really is a pain.
Quote from: RichAplin on 17:12, 16 April 13
c) with software scroll you obviously have two options;
c1) you can either copy+move the display memory with an LDIR or similar (although a series of LDI's is faster, bizarrely) and then fill in the new gfx around the edges...
c2) or you can redraw the whole display each time from the tilemap.
Many people ended up doing (c2) because it has a number of advantages;
it's easier to implement, runs about the same speed regardless of which direction (or how fast) you scroll, you can animate tiles easily, and most usefully of all you don't need to erase any sprites because you're redrawing the whole screen each time. The constant-speed thing was quite important for games.
Yes, redrawing the tiles is much easier, I've done that for a couple of my games.
Quote from: RichAplin on 17:12, 16 April 13
As for your actual question - the frame rate? It depends how big your display area is and how much you optimize the tile drawing code. :-)
In Shinobi specifically I recall that several of the end-of-level bosses just used a single-colour background (maybe with a simple floor) which meant I had that much more time to draw the sprites, but the main in-game backgrounds were just regular maps.
nice trick.
Quote from: Puresox on 17:15, 16 April 13
What is your opinion of the Amstrad CPC464/664 6128 etc... Rich? I would be interested to know. What work are you involved with at the moment,if you don't mind me asking?
I have fond memories of the CPC;
a) the rgb colour monitor was so much nicer than a TV modulated output
b) nice keyboard on 464, generally reliable hardware all round
c) excellent firmware
d) 16 colour display mode was nice
e) 3" disk drive was reliable and reasonably fast, 6128 was nice machine (yucky keyboard tho)
basically a pretty solid piece of hardware... a little pedestrian in design and a bit slow in some ways (display size to CPU power ratio was low) ... but a perfectly likable, mass-producable system with less corners cut than the Spectrum and overall and a very professional hardware design job.
I have to say in terms of the aesthetics of the hardware design, there was a lot to admire in the Amiga; such a clever, ambitious design. :-)
Nowadays I do a few different jobs; either bare-metal firmware stuff (e.g. wireless headphones etc for Astro Gaming) or mobile-phone server stuff (usually Python) e.g. I wrote the server for my friend's company Munkyfun, currently driving a fairly popular (~25M) horse-ownership game on iOS/Android amongst other titles.
Right this second I'm working on the server for an as-yet-unlaunched social app.
Deleted , Previous post was corrupted!
Beige? Ambitious? :D
PS Sorry, instead of hitting 'quote' I hit 'edit' and edited your post, hence the note at the bottom...
PS2 Maybe that's what confused you, Puresox?
Thanks for taking the time to answer Rich. Thanks for some great games in the past too!
Fano, here's a attempt to take into account Sigh's palette and mission 1 tiles.
I organized the palette order to be as close to older one as possible, so that most non-converted graphics will still look good. All bitmaps are in 8-bit palette mode, should re-import exactly as you exported them.
Map1 relies on exactly the same tilemap as older one, it imports as much new tiles as possible.
Sprites are only recolored version, at this step I didn't want to introduce mis-alignments. File sprites_1_baby.bmp is a variant with the modified hostage, if you really want to something new.
Sprites colors use up all colors from 1 to 11. As you told me, 0 is mandatory black due to technical contraints; 12 is free. Maybe the green might be freed up too, at the moment it's mostly used for colored ninjas, and the original game has them in all primary colors anyway.
Colors 13-15 are set to colors used by the level 1 tiles.
Palette in CPC colors should be :
0, 9, 19, 27, 23, 15, 25, 3, 0, 20, 1, 10, (any), 12, 17, 5
I've checked while running the game to see how the sprite parts are used. Only the 2 colored ninjas are still todo. So far, three sprites are offset (by 2 pixels) compared to legs, they are :
- shinobi shooting
- punk punching
- knifeman striking.
All other sprites are displayed exactly one atop the other.
The result is the attached sprite sheet that shows which combinations are used for what.
The second file integrates the walk cycle made by sigh.
If you open these files in Grafx2, set grid to 12x24 and activate Tilemap mode, painting on any sprite will copy the changes on all places where it's used.
That's good work and very interesting.
There are a couple of spots on the sheet that says "unused". Is is possible to add some extra sprites in those places? I had drawn the shinobi in his crouching stance a while ago and using the reference from the arcade. The arcade version is much longer horizontally and the walk cycle in crouch looks different from the CPC version.
Like with the legs on the kick and death, they are separate sprites and I want to try and do the same thing with the crouch and jump.
I really dont like how the current crouch and jump looks.
Interesting to see what you're doing here but I have to disagree with some choices. The new brick tiles are far too clean and overly bright and visually overpowering taking my eye's focus away from the sprites. I have a similar problem with several magazines and websites these days with all that damn 'white space' taking my eyes's attention away from the text I'm trying to concentrate on. The lack of texture on the brickwork makes it look too artificial and unconvincing and in that ways I far prefer the brick tiles of the original CPC version (although they could be a bit better refined and the colours better used).
On the player sprite he use of the gray makes the sprite look rather washed out and bland when compared to the somewhat more pleasant look of the saturated darkish cyan the CPC version originally went with.. The CPC's gray is just a tad too light for a ninja.
Nice work on converting the walk cycle over. Problem is the one in the original arcade game is pretty bad to begin with. Shinobi was never a particularly great game to look at and I have to question trying to make the CPC version look like the really rather dated arcade game instead than playing to the CPC's own strengths and 'style'.
That's my just my opinion anyways.
Quote from: Carnivac on 10:53, 22 April 13
Interesting to see what you're doing here but I have to disagree with some choices............
We'll see when when it's running in the game.
Quote from: Yves Rizoud on 01:21, 22 April 13
I've checked while running the game to see how the sprite parts are used. Only the 2 colored ninjas are still todo. So far, three sprites are offset (by 2 pixels) compared to legs, they are :
- shinobi shooting
- punk punching
- knifeman striking.
All other sprites are displayed exactly one atop the other.
The result is the attached sprite sheet that shows which combinations are used for what.
The second file integrates the walk cycle made by sigh.
If you open these files in Grafx2, set grid to 12x24 and activate Tilemap mode, painting on any sprite will copy the changes on all places where it's used.
Whoops! I thought I had put the shinobi shooting sprite in! I also didn't realise the crouch walk was only 2 frames!
Hmmm - maybe I could try and combine the crouch walk frame and death legs frame together somehow...
Quote from: sigh on 11:38, 22 April 13
We'll see when when it's running in the game.
ok...
The arcade game look like that...
Sure, it's always better to add nice pixel art texturing inside to look more "Renagade or Gryzor" but, is the existing tile set allow that ?
If yes, why not in a second time, when all the GFx was recolored are drawn properly.
Quote from: TotO on 11:58, 22 April 13
The arcade game look like that...
Sure, it's always better to add nice pixel art texturing inside to look more "Renagade or Gryzor" but, is the existing tile set allow that ?
If yes, why not in a second time, when all the GFx was recolored are drawn properly.
I don't understand what you're saying here but actually no the arcade game doesn't really look like that. I also feel the highlights on these now yellow tiles really need to be toned down. Far too much white on them. No idea why you mentioned Renegade or Gryzor as they've nothing to do with this. My point with the brick tiles is that even the original CPC version's attempt at least looked like the bricks of a building (and the use of the pink against the orange is a good idea to be able to give some detail without too much contrast) and helped give me the impression that ninja is standing in a city. The overly yellow/white revised tiles do not. Apart from the brightness they're far too tidy and look sterile... Also the use of that dingey greenish colour (the one that's usually about 127,127,0) should be done in moderation. It's easily the ugliest colour in the entire CPC palette.
Quote from: Carnivac on 12:13, 22 April 13
I don't understand what you're saying here but actually no the arcade game doesn't really look like that. [...]
My point with the brick tiles is that even the original CPC version's attempt at least looked like the bricks of a building (and the use of the pink against the orange is a good idea to be able to give some detail without too much contrast) and helped give me the impression that ninja is standing in a city. The overly yellow/white revised tiles do not.
(http://www.captainwilliams.co.uk/sega/mastersystem/shinobi/images/shinobi_arcade_shot1.png) (http://www.captainwilliams.co.uk/sega/mastersystem/shinobi/images/shinobi_arcade_shot1.png)
Please, where do you see attempt to make real bricks on the arcade version ?
No, orange and pink are not a good idea to redone the arcade background.
(and you can saw the result on the previous version)Definitively look great on your Robocop mock-up, but here, it's not the wished design.
Quote from: TotO on 12:47, 22 April 13
Please, where do you see attempt to make real bricks on the arcade version ?
Uh, I see right there some attempt to give a slightly wethered texture to the bricks... They're not totally clean and devoid of shading.
I did a very quick edit to show if you 'mix' colours you can get details in there without them being overlay contrasting.
(http://carnivac.co.uk/temp/shinedit.png)
Could use some refining but the point is the overall brightness level isn't too high and it matches the arcade's more accurately, there is textured detailing with some use of dither, and it's of suitably low contrast (maybe a smidge too low contrast but hey it was a quick edit) that the foreground items still stand out without any problems. Ok I slightly edited the player sprite too to use slightly more interesting shading and make him 'pop' a bit more.
Quote from: Carnivac on 13:10, 22 April 13
Uh, I see right there some attempt to give a slightly wethered texture to the bricks... They're not totally clean and devoid of shading.
I did a very quick edit to show if you 'mix' colours you can get details in there without them being overlay contrasting.
Could use some refining but the point is the overall brightness level isn't too high and it matches the arcade's more accurately, there is textured detailing with some use of dither, and it's of suitably low contrast (maybe a smidge too low contrast but hey it was a quick edit) that the foreground items still stand out without any problems. Ok I slightly edited the player sprite too to use slightly more interesting shading and make him 'pop' a bit more.
I understand well that adding "texturing" inside the background bricks allow to drop the hilight effect of the CPC hilighted colours, but that no more look "Shinobi"...
But, nice skill on your Ninja design, the sprite get more "life" looking like that.
Well I was using the actual Shinobi bricks for reference (I had this pic http://i.imgur.com/g033z4V.gif (http://i.imgur.com/g033z4V.gif) open which had been posted earlier in the thread while I making that brick tile) so it's about as close as you're going to get with the CPC palette and it's wide pixels. The CPC just doesn't have that exact colour used in the brick tiles of that arcade game. Some compromises have to be made.
edit: How odd. I just noticed in that screenshot from the arcade that one of the Monroe posters has her beauty mark in the middle of her forehead? What was that about?
@fano, sigh, everyone: I hope you don't feel like I'm trying to hijack your topic or project. I'm really not. I just wanted to offer some suggestions is all. You don't have to take any of them on board, but they're there if you want.
Quote from: sigh on 11:38, 22 April 13
Whoops! I thought I had put the shinobi shooting sprite in!
You did draw one, but it's a full figure and bends a lot forward. The current engine constraint need a single 12px-wide torso that has to fit well with : the 4 walking legs, the 2 crouching legs, and the jumping legs.
Quote from: sigh on 11:38, 22 April 13
I also didn't realise the crouch walk was only 2 frames!
Even worse, the crouch walk also borrows the jumping legs!
Sorry if these are big constraints, but Fano wanted to invest only in a sprite-replacement... Hopefully it limits the required work on graphics, but it also means the graphic change have to be less ambitious.
Heh. Just read this on the wiki page of the game. This bit refers to the Xbox 360 and Wii releases of the original arcade game.
"The backgrounds in Mission 1-2 and 1-3 also featured Andy Warhol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Warhol)-style posters of Marilyn Monroe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilyn_Monroe). However, without consent from the Monroe estate, these images had to be removed" So careful about the Monroe poster tiles. ;)
edit: oh, copy pasting that bit copied the those wiki-links intact? I didn't intend or require that but that's kinda neat.
This is such an interesting topic! So, since you guys are already arguing (in the productive sense) on prefered styles and pixeling techniques, how about turning this into a little graphics compo?
Some people have provided easy to use sprites' and tiles' sheets, so everyone could just pixel over them to make Shinobi the way they believe it "should look on the CPC". I suppose Fano wouldn't mind making, ehm, a dozen variations of the game. Would you Fano? Perhaps each one could also make his own versions of the general screens and static graphics.
This could end up being rather amusing as I suspect that some people will try to make their version faithful to the arcade original while others could go overboard and change everything. How about a female ninja hero, or a ninja turtle, or... the Terminator?
rb
Quote from: Carnivac on 13:25, 22 April 13@fano, sigh, everyone: I hope you don't feel like I'm trying to hijack your topic or project. I'm really not. I just wanted to offer some suggestions is all. You don't have to take any of them on board, but they're there if you want.
Nope, every opinion is welcome as long they can add creativity to this subject ;)
Btw, i prefer to let graphists do their job as long they fit in technical requirements and original game spirit.
Quote from: rexbeng on 16:08, 22 April 13Some people have provided easy to use sprites' and tiles' sheets, so everyone could just pixel over them to make Shinobi the way they believe it "should look on the CPC". I suppose Fano wouldn't mind making, ehm, a dozen variations of the game. Would you Fano? Perhaps each one could also make his own versions of the general screens and static graphics.
Why not ? that's a good idea.
Quote from: rexbeng on 16:08, 22 April 13
This is such an interesting topic! So, since you guys are already arguing (in the productive sense) on prefered styles and pixeling techniques, how about turning this into a little graphics compo?
Some people have provided easy to use sprites' and tiles' sheets, so everyone could just pixel over them to make Shinobi the way they believe it "should look on the CPC". I suppose Fano wouldn't mind making, ehm, a dozen variations of the game. Would you Fano? Perhaps each one could also make his own versions of the general screens and static graphics.
This could end up being rather amusing as I suspect that some people will try to make their version faithful to the arcade original while others could go overboard and change everything. How about a female ninja hero, or a ninja turtle, or... the Terminator?
rb
Yep. (Though personally I'd like the ninja to remain a guy to keep the shinobi spirit.)
I like your idea rexbeng :) The artists must have fun too :)
I enjoyed the c64 Rambo competition (http://www.c64.sk/vote.php?results=1), and we should have one of this in cpc, for example remaking bad screens as Victory Road ;D
[attachimg=1]
Hmmm... or doing something new
Damn it's so speccy it hurts.
:o
@Syx: yes, indeed, it's a pitty that we don't have challenges for graphicians like they have in the C64 scene. I have to say that the C64 scene is somewhat more fun in areas like this. Ofcourse it's also a matter of size, it' obviously more easy to find participations among so many sceners, but when I see various people here in the wiki making mockups about whatever-reason (Zynaps, CPC-Canabalt, Robocop, Shinobi just to name a few that come to mind), it somewhat is a pitty that these will just stay and get forgotten in a forum when we could do something more scene-centric out of them.
rb
Quote from: TFM/FS on 16:42, 23 April 13
Hmmm... or doing something new
But for that we have already the ReSet party (http://reset.pushnpop.net/) :)
This would be more a fun competition with a common theme (remake an old bad or improve a classic cpc picture or rethink the CPC France crocodile or demake actual games to cpc) and limited time (2 weeks or 1 month), perfect for this summer, after all the competitions, for example.
@rexbeng: I agree, there is so much talent graphician in the forum and everytime they put one of their graphics everybody gives a lot of likes. They should be more visible publicaly :)
Ah ok, thanks!
EDIT: Sadly I never saw a demo competition which is not limited in hardware. It would be great to have once during my lifetime a competition without limits - but I guess I have to make that by myself at the COM IV party (if there ever will be one).
A multicore processor with 8Gb ram and dual/quad graphics cards does not impose too many limits. does it?
I talked about a CPC.
Perhaps you should announce your own competition, then you can set the rules, maybe you could offer one of your acid chips as a prize.
Talking about unlimited, have you considered writing a program that would run on 4 CPCs with the graphics displayed on 4 monitors giving a resolution of up to 1280x400. 8)
Ok, so I see, I have to make my self more clear. The idea was of course to use only one CPC computer, but with the possibility of using:
- A 0.7 MB formatted B-drive
- RAM of more than 64 KB (128 KB or 512 f.e)
- ROMs
- Lightpen, Mouse
- Soundcards (don't ask about this idea now)
- HD for video streaming or MP3s.
- etc.
About your four CPCs idea: I would use only two of them giving me a resolution of 1664 * 512 dots (mode 2).
Or a single CPC with 832 * 512 points (that's what I can use as maximum).
@TFM: well, there's no point in doing a "competition" on equipment only a few people own. But you could easily make something on your highly customised Amstrad CPC and enter the Wild competitoons in one of the big demoparties (take a look at the entries in the last Revision (http://pouet.net/party.php?which=1550&when=2013)). There's all sorts of obscure hardware used there, even platforms made from scratch!
rb
Well, I guess a lot of people have a 6128 with 80 Track DS B-drive and 512 KB RAM f.e.
About 200 SF2 have been sold, they all have 512 KB RAM and 512 KB ROM f.e. Further a lot of others have a MegaFlash and a RAM expansion.
Today the expanded CPC is IMNO quite normal. :)
And it's not about super-extended-software only. Also software is of interest which JUST USES conected expansions if found. ;)
RICHARD APLIN INTERVIEW!!!
Thanks Rich!
An interview with Richard Aplin | Retro Asylum (http://retroasylum.com/an-interview-with-richard-aplin/)
If I read this interview, then I know it was a good decision NOT to make my hobby to my job ;)
Thanks for the link!!!
Hello everyone, my name is Andrea, i'm Italian and i'm new in this forum ... this is very beautiful project renovation of the graphics for Shinobi Amstrad CPC. One of the many things that I could not stand in the CPC version of Shinobi was the lack of a loading screen / intro ...
Time ago I made the conversion to loading screen to the PC Engine version for Amstrad ... You like it? See you soon! :)
P.S. - Sorry for my bad English, i use google translate... :P
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/s720x720/383741_2607158354773_1397562737_n.jpg)
http://www.dizionariovideogiochi.it/Spot/shinobi.dsk (http://www.dizionariovideogiochi.it/Spot/shinobi.dsk)
I'm sure that if a day, peoples on this forum will finish to redraw the few ingame GFx, then it will be possible to think about other features like an "intro screen".
Of course, this was just an idea ... :)
Sure. You are welcome. ;)
(better to use PNG files for the forum, to not destroy your work)
Looks great !
Thanks for the tips ... I have yet to practice with the options of the forum ... :)
I enclose other 3 screenshots with the file .dsk, this time with the introduction screen taken from the arcade version with and without the SEGA logo and a test carried out with the color palette of the Amstrad CPC+
Thanks for the compliments! :)
Nice screens tough...
Just a suggestion: Why not use dark green for the shade on the face?
QuoteJust a suggestion: Why not use dark green for the shade on the face?
I guess a regular dithering would work just fine...
Also I guess being on an Amstrad, the "320x200" limit is pointless, should be Full screen, this could enable for bigger logos more faithfull to the original as it would compensate for the Mode0.
The sega logo per example could be in 1x2 mode 0 "square" pixels...
So for the shinobi.
Yes MacDeath, your result is the most visually beautiful ... I as you may have guessed I do not have the basics of programming or whatever are an amateur and I'm delighted to convert some static screen with the "ConvImgCpc" ... but I would not mind learning a little more ... : P
For example programs that you used for the mockup? How can I get dith in localized areas rather than the entire screen?
Thank you for the patience you have given me ... :)
Although sure the artists will give a better answer, usually they use from photoshop to windows paint, passing for graph2x, promotion, ... And the dithering in the old days was applied manually, but sure nowadays the drawing programs can help in it.
With respect to the Shinobi loading screen, i like the retouch of the c64 version by Philippe Lesire (http://users.skynet.be/NightGem/c64.htm), they can be converted to mode 1, the most difficult would be choosing a nice ninja palette ;)
(http://users.skynet.be/NightGem/c64/my_shinobi_duo.gif) (http://users.skynet.be/NightGem/c64/my_shinobi_duo.gif)
Left original c64 | Right retouched version
(http://users.skynet.be/NightGem/c64/my_shinobi_duo.gif) (http://users.skynet.be/NightGem/c64/my_shinobi_duo.gif)
You are right : if you are to use this, why not use Mode1 ?
Basically it is a 4 colour (nice) picture...
Dark Red, bright red, Black and white (light grey)...
the Mode1 is perfect for an "old ninja movie" feeling
So yeah, the same sort of picture in 384x272 x 4 colours Mode1 could be great indeed... but needs to be completely re-done of course.To be honnest, even software Mode5 could be used on good purpose on this sort of picture..The black zone from the ninja mask sides are large enough to be sure we don't have colour clashes clashing the picture...So yeah, you could have extra colours for the visible visage/face part (flesh, eyes), also get an extra ink or two for the logos...Could really be a shining example of 3Mode5".I fail to find page on Mode5 at CPCwiki ?
was the page removed ?
Push'n'Pop | Amstrad CPC Demoscene | GrafX2 with CPC "mode 5" support for (http://pushnpop.net/topic-207-1.html)
Please Syx, give informations...
Ok, we know it is basically a heavy use of split rasters.
QuoteYes MacDeath, your result is the most visually beautiful ... I as you may have guessed I do not have the basics of programming or whatever are an amateur and I'm delighted to convert some static screen with the "ConvImgCpc" ... but I would not mind learning a little more ...
Actually I cheat.
I use paint.net to modify the picture, because it is a real graphic application.
you convert the picture into "real" 160x200 resolution, and then can fill the zones with ditherings, then reconvert it into 320x200 to have double pixels.
Regular ditherings work well in mode0 so never forget to use them to have more colours on large zones.
CPC palette is good but limited, you really need those ditherings in black to have darker shades.
With this method you actually have a theorical 5x5x5 RGB cube.
(http://www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/8/80/R5G5B5_CPC_complete_ditherings.png) (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/8/80/R5G5B5_CPC_complete_ditherings.png)
Had Amstrad used such 5x5x5 RGB cube instead of 3x3x3, the CPC would really had a great super EGA palette combining all the advantages of the 3x3x3 cube (middle colours in 50%) and EGA (more colours, simply...)
This would have needed a component able to handle like 128 colours though (actually 125).
Note : if you look well on those pictures, you can see I use all ditherings possible to get the new shades, some squares/rectangles use 4 combinaitions to get the "same" colour, other use 2 combinaisons, and some only one.
It's because I mix the CPC original colours only so some result can be obtained with more possibilities.
The 2 extra "layers" are purely dithered.
Anyway Mr. DVG, you could check this page perhaps :
Video modes - CPCWiki (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Video_modes)
Very nice job on this thread and welcome Mr DVG.This 4 colors approch is a very nice idea and could be nicely completed with (split) rasters =)
this looks like the original one...
(http://odysseedupixel.fr/wp-content/gallery/shinobi/shinobi.png) (http://odysseedupixel.fr/wp-content/gallery/shinobi/shinobi.png)
I would give it a try but as I switched to Win8 recently, my Paint.net need to get all palettes redone (CPC, EGA...) because I didn't backup those up and failed to import them (I suck, I know, I work for Appfel Komputerz...)
Not so fast !!!
Ok I finally managed to find my palettes back, finally we are good at Appfel Komputerz...
There a few tries in "overscanned" Mode1/mode5...
but as it is overscaned full screen, mode0 is easier and quite suitable actually.
those large pixels don't look that big if scale is up on the whole screen... and then you don't habe to pull out tricks and code and violate the hardware just to get more than 4 colours on screen... ;D
But hey, it would keep the Demoscene spirit alive and would be completely unecessary, so lets do this anyway !!!!
Quote from: MacDeath on 02:12, 18 August 13
I guess a regular dithering would work just fine...
Also I guess being on an Amstrad, the "320x200" limit is pointless, should be Full screen, this could enable for bigger logos more faithfull to the original as it would compensate for the Mode0.
The sega logo per example could be in 1x2 mode 0 "square" pixels...
So for the shinobi.
Liking that one a lot!
Quote from: MacDeath on 11:21, 18 August 13
Please Syx, give informations...
MacDeath, you can find a nice explanation in this post (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?topic=7317.msg53892#msg53892), and if you have any doubt only ask.
Basically "mode 5" is a screen in mode 1 resolution with a width of 288 pixels (the height that you like, each scanline with mode 5 applied takes 100% of cpu, less scanlines with mode 5 more things you can do). With respect to the colours, one ink (pen 3) is fixed for all the screen (the most used colour in the picture), 2 inks (pen 1 and 2) are fixed for each scanline (the 2 more used colours in each scanline, of course you can change them each scanline) and the last ink (pen 0) changes each 48 pixels (6 times for each scanline).
And the great idea was made it artist friendly, instead of typical coder friendly. Pulkomandy made that adding support to graf2x (the files generated can be used directly in a cpc floppy with the mode 5 viewer).
In the last year ReSeT party, Pulko took part with this picture:
(http://artcity.bitfellas.org/gallery/p/pulkomandy/29716_alice3.png)
But sincerely, i don't know if for a loading screen the use of rasters, maybe a little overkill... at least we used the nice disk loader that arnoldemu made for the Batman demo :) or we made a cartridge version for the CTC-AY expansion ;)
Thank you so much for your valuable explanations, I will treasure ... :)
I understand that you use graphics programs and photo editing then adapting them to the specific technical and graphic dell'Amstrad CPC.
Even if you are not exceptional but I feel the need to try my conversions on the original machine, the ConvImgCpc allows me to save a screen format. Scr you can then upload directly to the CPC ...
How can I get the same result working on a screen with external programs?
You first work the picture with any other "true" graphic app, then you pass it through ConvImgCPC just for the convertion.
As implied by its name : it is a convertion tool, mostly.
If you know well enough the CPC limitations, it pass directly with no problem into convimgCPC.
I made a custom palette with paint.net to have CPC colours.
cinvimgcpc can read bmp pictures, those bmp don't modify the pixels (no compression) so you have to save your picture with this.
Also you have to work with the target image size/resolution. and be precise on pixels and colours.
basic 16k Mode 0 : 160x200
basic 16k Mode1 : 320x200
full screen "24k" : may vary, but mostly 384x272 in mode1.
it is somewhat "unsafe" to have a greater safe zone than vertical 256pixels IMO...
"Safe zone" means it is actually displayed on most monitor.
Horizontal is quite often well displayed entirely but you could aim at 368 (mode1) , vertical on the other hand, but other may tell this better than me.
So do your picture in 384x288 or 384x272 but aim at a "safe zone" of 368x256.
(this is a personal approximation, of course)
I understand perfectly, there is quite a bit of work on ... thanks for the info! ;)
The limitations of Mode 5 sounds like the colourlimitations of all the other computers. Not our beloved CPC
Don't expect Mode 5 on Shinobi... :)
Rasters and disc loading - sounds like fun coding to me. Well, if you use an OS that leaves you the second register set then I see no problem (just some fun ;-))
Quote from: TFM on 20:05, 19 August 13
Rasters and disc loading - sounds like fun coding to me. Well, if you use an OS that leaves you the second register set then I see no problem (just some fun ;-))
Interesting , i'd be curious to see this in action and deployed technic (especially how you manage synchronisation on screen)
Quote from: TotO on 17:45, 19 August 13
Don't expect Mode 5 on Shinobi... :)
For what kind of game
can we use MODE 5 then?
I'd love to see something like Knytt or Within a Deep Forest on the CPC. (Meaning, not those games, but something similar).
Was discussed some time ago, but kinda stalled.
Mockups for MODE 1 minimalistic graphics platformer (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?topic=3203.msg38141#msg38141)
Mode 5 may be nice for a dedicated game designed for, like your linked project.
I hope that you will finish it! :)
I said that more about Shinobi because fano has posted this easy "wiki project" for the community will be able to work on a great CPC game revamp.
It's something simple to do (I can achieve that in a week), and nobody done more than 1 map (nice work) in 6 months...
After that, you expect new weapons, arcade inter-sequences, a title screen and now mode 5?
Please... Stop to speak about a dream ; Just do it! ;D
Mode 5 uses *all* the cpu time during the display, so the cpu time is limited to the top and bottom borders.
Not sure what would fit into that time.
Quote from: fano on 05:47, 20 August 13
Interesting , i'd be curious to see this in action and deployed technic (especially how you manage synchronisation on screen)
a moving raster the width of the screen is entirely possible.
but having it stationary... I can think of one way, but the code would not be simple.
but I would like to see it ;)
Quote from: fano on 05:47, 20 August 13
Interesting , i'd be curious to see this in action and deployed technic (especially how you manage synchronisation on screen)
Basically the raster has the higher priority (no split line though!), the FDC delivers every 25 ys iirc. So yes, doable, but "a lot of fun" to realize. And between raster routine and fdc routine you switch registers using EXX.
Quote from: TFM on 16:56, 20 August 13
Basically the raster has the higher priority (no split line though!), the FDC delivers every 25 ys iirc. So yes, doable, but "a lot of fun" to realize. And between raster routine and fdc routine you switch registers using EXX.
Yep, i was thinking to that too but i was wondering how you can synchronize correctly this with a position on screen as you have to wait for FDC and drive.I'd like to see that and good luck for the one who will code that, that looks like highway to hell :o
Haha! Pretty much!
I'm only testing for fun ... :)
your screenshots are antialiased, so unusable in order to try other palettes... :(
In what way? Talk of the posted screens or files on the disk? ::)
These are better? :D
I would also add the final screenshots taken from the arcade version (nothing special, there are two colors at the end) ... :)
Quote from: Mr. DVG on 12:48, 23 August 13
I would also add the final screenshots taken from the arcade version (nothing special, there are two colors at the end) ... :)
This picture has exactly four colors. Give it a try in Mode 1. It will look way better :)
Quote from: TFM on 15:23, 23 August 13
This picture has exactly four colors. Give it a try in Mode 1. It will look way better :)
It is true, but I am very fond of the mode 0 of the CPC, and then I saw that most of the work for this hypothetical retyling of Shinobi are made in that mode ... :)
Using MODE 1 instead of MODE 0 would just double the resolution in X. There is no draw back in this case. Further you could use dithering in addition ;)
I agree.
Perfect! :)
Great! :D
QuoteThis picture has exactly four colors. Give it a try in Mode 1. It will look way better
QuoteIt is true, but I am very fond of the mode 0 of the CPC, and then I saw that most of the work for this hypothetical retyling of Shinobi are made in that mode ...
Haha, you are then using Mode3... :laugh: :D ;D :P
Mode3? :o But... LOL!!! ;D
I guess someone should explain "Mode3"... ;D
Otherwise, to display this kind of graphics in 4 colour mode0... you should perhaps try the "dual playfield" sothe "the end" logo could be "easily" animated and scrolled
This screen would then feature a 4 + 3+transparency dual playfield at "low CPU and RAM cost".
I quite not understand why this technic is so fewly used recently.
Worked well for "Ghost'N'Ghost" games, and mission genocide is awesomly smooth as well.
Mission Genocide - Amstrad CPC Longplay. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ9Cau4Q8rw#)
Very interesting ... I know the games in question but did not know it had been made with this particular mode (i did not know that there was actually ... :D ).
In the case of Mission Genocide then scrolling does not miss a beat ... as always thanks for the clarification ... ;)
Well, it is in Mode0 with "dual playfield". So not a "mode" but a trick.
Such trick could be used more often for animated logo/titles (scrollings) with masked stuff, I guess.
The good point is that it takes "less" RAM for graphic datas, and it may be somewhat easier to animate I guess.
I guess it could even be mixed with some raster perhaps.
Quote from: MacDeath on 03:16, 26 August 13
The good point is that it takes "less" RAM for graphic datas, and it may be somewhat easier to animate I guess.
The MODE 3 is just a hardware side effect that return the MODE 0 resolution with the MODE 1 pixels format/palette
(11XX11XX).
You don't save memory at all with it ; It's just useless and it's why it's not used under BASIC and existing games.
The discussion already exist here: Mode 3 (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?topic=2027.15)
Now, please, back to the topic. :)
You save memory in mode 3 because you can hide somethink in the unused bits :D
Quote from: GOB on 15:58, 26 August 13
You save memory in mode 3 because you can hide somethink in the unused bits :D
Not really, you could do exactly the same in Mode 0 by just setting colours 4-16 appropriately.
Dont confuse mode 3 (hardware) with the software 4th mode.... :-\
I was talking about the "dual playfield" trick in Mode0, not mode3, concerning "less RAM for datas".
I know Mode3 is mostly a joke/side effekt. ;D
Sorry topic went too far into those.
Dual playfield : you turn the 4bpp into 2bpp + 2 bpp and the 16 colours into "4 + (3+transparancy)".
Perhaps it would be cool that someone who is a great coder (anyone) would at last do a proper CPCwiki_ page on this.
This was actually used for quite a load of games.
Boulder Dash may be.
Otherwise Gost and ghouls and gost and gobs... Wonder boy too.
Mission genocide is one of the "best" exemple.
As I often told on PLUS topics, Mission genocide engine could be great on PLUS with added Multiplexed Hardsprites and perhaps a few raster colours changes (if possible) with ROM/extra RAM configuration.
Quote from: MacDeath on 21:22, 26 August 13Mission genocide is one of the "best" exemple.
Please do not forget Relentless that is for me the best example, i am not very fond of the dual playfield (except maybe in mode 1) but i must admit Relentless perfectly mastered this trick visually :-*
But please back to the topic, i am still impatient to see great graphics for shinobi ;D
Quote from: MacDeath on 21:22, 26 August 13
Dual playfield : you turn the 4bpp into 2bpp + 2 bpp and the 16 colours into "4 + (3+transparancy)".
Perhaps it would be cool that someone who is a great coder (anyone) would at last do a proper CPCwiki_ page on this.
What sort of thing did you have in mind? Something more detailed than the explanation in the CPC manual?
Quote from: MacDeath on 21:22, 26 August 13
As I often told on PLUS topics, Mission genocide engine could be great on PLUS with added Multiplexed Hardsprites and perhaps a few raster colours changes (if possible) with ROM/extra RAM configuration.
I'm not really sure how it would be useful. It would be remarkably easy to create Mission Genocide on the Plus without any tricks whatsoever. The smooth scrolling could just as easily be done with the SSCR and the hardware sprites are probably sufficient to serve as the in game sprites. And that way you could do away with the 4 colour limitation entirely too.
Fano, I think everybody needs you to share the tools to extract/replace images, or information about it, or do the modification yourself and give us an updated DSK/snapshot which takes into account the remapped sprites and tiles for mission 1. This is necessary to see how the work-in-progress palette behaves, and also allows you to check all the other parts that need to take the remapping into account (font and GUI in general, I guess)
If you share the tools, people can directly test their modifications.
No problem Yves, i was waiting some complete sprites/tiles/palette at least for level 1.You can see i posted the ressources on the topic.
I am actually busy on CTC-AY and Minibooster code but if someone is interested, i'll write some scripts to integrate edited stuff and notice to explain how to do the job.
Well, yes, it would be great to see a preview DSK :)
Quote from: TFM on 20:37, 29 August 13
Well, yes, it would be great to see a preview DSK :)
A preview of what ? there are actually not enough content to do a complete set =(
Just for fun i converted the sprites of motion of Joe Musashi directly from those of the arcade game (a total of six sprite) adapting them to the palette of the classic CPC...
I have a question for you programmers...
If i wanted to move these six sprite to create movement in which programs I refer? Is there a tutorial that explains step by step how to animate a sprite?
Thanks as always for your time ... :)
Updated mission 1 map :
- adapted to common (sprite) palette : there were 4 more colors than sprites, so I had to put one in the last free slot. I chose orange, it may be needed for projectiles, fire, fonts etc.
- fixed up tiles that didn't fit the tile map. It's bearable, but I didn't invest too much time because it's very likely to be removed if/when the tile map can be modified.
Updated sprites : player shoot, player jump/crouch (legs), edited most mohawk torsoes and a few pistolman torsoes.
Update 3 Oct : re-made map 1 based on Sigh's screenshots. Still difficult to be faithful because the tiles really don't cooperate well. Touched up the sprites (pistolman), but I'm reaching the limits of my spriting ability.
I do not understand why you definitely want to take the graphics of the original rather than redoing something more suited to the CPC and a single version. Personally I find deeply ugly yellow (not to criticize what has been done) and the graphics could be much better if we just did not confine himself to repeat as the original.
Maybe simply because we are trying to respect original arcade style...
For me , yellow using is a good idea here , it is difficult to find a good compromise for colors as arcade gfx uses unsatured colors and our beloved CPC doesn't own.
Quote from: GOB on 10:06, 27 September 13I do not understand why you definitely want to take the graphics of the original rather than redoing something more suited to the CPC and a single version.
Well, it's a reference, a place to pick ideas of what the CPC graphician was trying to achieve. But if people hit a roadblock on something (an enemy, a boss, a piece of scenery, that nobody manages to convert correctly) some creative liberty is going to be needed anyway.
Quote from: Mr. DVG on 01:49, 31 August 13
Just for fun i converted the sprites of motion of Joe Musashi directly from those of the arcade game (a total of six sprite) adapting them to the palette of the classic CPC...
I have a question for you programmers...
If i wanted to move these six sprite to create movement in which programs I refer? Is there a tutorial that explains step by step how to animate a sprite?
Thanks as always for your time ... :)
That's pretty well, but one of them has a different color. Did that happen by accident, or is it a part of the game?
There is already a version of shinobi that more formal and with ugly gfx ... For my part, if it's just to have the same graphics and more beautiful, I find that there is no interest. We'd better make a customized version for the CPC without worrying about gfx the original version. It would be more open and certainly more beautiful because no offense anyone, yet I find it very ugly ...
But it look to be not easy for peoples to make customized versions... Jim Power, ...
So, here, it's an opportunity for the cpcwiki users to work on an easy project. No more. :-*
This said, shiobi could greatly benefit from a PLUS palette version.
otherwise, it could be nice perhaps to adapt the sprites palette according to levels.Yellow ninja on a blue dominated level ?
aren't ninjas supposed to blend with background ?
Maybe i am unclear, We can later add Plus palette or even C64 but now what we need to progress in the project is graphics.Sadly, seems nobody is really interested (to ask features, more animations , more colors , more musics , more new style or more speed , there are a lot of people but sadly a few (thanks to them) to try to make gfx) on doing them so i think i'll close the project and archive it in my (too) long list of unfinished projects...
What usable graphics do you actually have at the moment ?
Quote from: TFM on 16:52, 27 September 13
That's pretty well, but one of them has a different color. Did that happen by accident, or is it a part of the game?
No, it happened by accident ... actually what the original arcade sprite has a shadow different than being converted to the Amstrad palette that gives me another color (which is also the most similar to the arcade) .... boh! ::)
Hello! I would like to show you some sprites that I've been drawing for a possible remake of Shinobi for Amstrad.
My dream is to someday play a remake of Shinobi like the R-Type one.
I hope you like it!
(http://s23.postimg.org/iv7xzku93/Shinobi.gif) (http://s23.postimg.org/cdp1g2jvr/Shuriken.gif?noCache=1439932886) (http://s6.postimg.org/u5pz9qgrx/Punk.gif?noCache=1439985863)
(http://img.overpic.net/images/e/t/q/xetqzr3gbay7g94epuy9b.png)
(http://s6.postimg.org/jk63xqagf/Shinobi_Amstrad_Montaje.png)
Welcome to our forum!
Great first post! I thought the sprites would need to be seen against game backgrounds to properly judge, but then I noticed a broken link in your post, so here's the final image:
[attachimg=1]
Nice. It is a hard task, but you are welcome to work on this game gfx.
We got the tools to update the game, as we said two years ago... (see the first post)
The feet really should be bigger, else they look like a Geisha! Good work nevertheless. Keep it going! :)
Thanks for the feedback!
For the moment I will continue drawing sprites regardless of the official version.
I think the proportions of the screen, stage and characters are not optimal, so I'm trying to be as faithful as possible to the arcade. Though I know that Shinobi for Amastrad is a great game, the feeling when playing is very different from the arcade... I would ever play the perfect Shinobi on an Amstrad ;)
Here you can see the stage 1_1 (wip)
(http://img.overpic.net/images/8/l/j/x8lj2gcrorlrt5n6n3dg8.jpg)
don't hesitate to use Black lines/shadows and ditherings. ;)
Quote from: TotO on 09:28, 20 August 15
Nice. It is a hard task, but you are welcome to work on this game gfx.
We got the tools to update the game, as we said two years ago... (see the first post)
Hello all,
This is a very interesting project. I always thought that shinobi was a great port in CPC, just it looked different from the arcade.
I would like to ask what kind of tools did you use to modify the graphics of the game?
I would like to experiment with this process a bit.
just released a remastered version of the game.
you can find it here:
https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/games/shinobi-remaster-released/new/#new
cheers!