Author Topic: Street Fighter II - CPC Edition  (Read 61643 times)

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Offline Xifos

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Re: Street Fighter II - CPC Edition
« Reply #25 on: 20:46, 26 September 13 »
>>Augustoruiz and the team

Amazing !!!
It's really great work !
 :)
How did you manage to have enough ram for all the sprites ?
(Even with the 6128 banks)
Are they compressed ? And uncompressed when displayed ?
What about their size ?

Keep the good work guys !!!
 :)

Offline Puresox

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Re: Street Fighter II - CPC Edition
« Reply #26 on: 21:33, 26 September 13 »
I have to say the MSX version is pretty good , nice animations,great that the  special moves are in there! MSX is a great machine only weakness I think is it's lack of scrolling capabilities.

Offline MacDeath

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Re: Street Fighter II - CPC Edition
« Reply #27 on: 22:02, 26 September 13 »
What "MSX" are we talking about ?


MSX1 ? MSX2 ? MSX2+ ?
MSX TurboR ?


Those are actually quite almost 4 different machines only retrocompatible.


The TurboR is basically a 16bit computer...


quite fun actually to see MSX got the same "extra characters" as Street Fighter name...
2...2+... turbo... '...WTF ?

Offline Puresox

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Re: Street Fighter II - CPC Edition
« Reply #28 on: 22:11, 26 September 13 »
I personally was on about the ordinary MSX 1.

Offline Puresox

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Re: Street Fighter II - CPC Edition
« Reply #29 on: 22:13, 26 September 13 »
And I know it is an MSX 2 version. But just think the MSX was pretty impressive. And the progressive models even more so!

Offline AugustoRuiz

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Re: Street Fighter II - CPC Edition
« Reply #30 on: 22:29, 26 September 13 »
Nice gfx and animation.How do you project to manage multiples attacks with 1 (or 2) buttons and special moves ?
Same thing , do you plan to manage hit chaining like the original SF2 ?

We'll have two attack buttons (punch and kick) and multiple attack strengths. We have yet to test how the strength will be selected, using a directional approach or a time based approach. We'll see how it works.

Hit chaining... I have no idea yet. Sorry about that.

I really like your approach of the non scrolling backgrounds....

Hardware scrolling is implemented (one byte at a time, not enough memory), but to be honest, I'm not very happy with the result. That's why I turned it off for the video. The frame rate is the same with the scroll enabled.

How far in are you in regards to the characters and sprites? How are you tackling dhalsim?

Dalshim... We'll have to do some trickery. Mainly split him in parts. Not sure how many of them as of now....

How did you manage to have enough ram for all the sprites ?
(Even with the 6128 banks)
Are they compressed ? And uncompressed when displayed ?
What about their size ?

32kb per character is quite some space. Sprites are not compressed in memory (in disk, yes they are). This game is being developed with disc based access in mind, because having anything more in memory would be impossible without memory expansions!!! But disc access will be pretty intense, I think.

Thank you very much for all the support/comments/questions!

Offline sigh

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Re: Street Fighter II - CPC Edition
« Reply #31 on: 02:08, 27 September 13 »
What "MSX" are we talking about ?

MSX 2.

This is really good news that they got it working at that speed as the CPC specs (correct me if I'm wrong) are quite similar to the MSX 2 specs?

We'll have two attack buttons (punch and kick) and multiple attack strengths. We have yet to test how the strength will be selected, using a directional approach or a time based approach. We'll see how it works.


Using a time based approach would work well as that technique was used in a game called "World Heroes":

Tap button = Light move
Hold button = Strong move

This method worked wonders, however - if you plan on using a seperate button for punch and kick, how will this work in a 2 player mode?

Hardware scrolling is implemented (one byte at a time, not enough memory), but to be honest, I'm not very happy with the result. That's why I turned it off for the video. The frame rate is the same with the scroll enabled.


Personally, I would leave the scrolling out. A pure example is that the MSX version works beautifully without.

Also - that way you would save on background artwork and use that space for special effects/gameplay speed/background animation etc.

Offline Xifos

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Re: Street Fighter II - CPC Edition
« Reply #32 on: 11:12, 27 September 13 »
It's true that the msx version works well, but it suffers from the hardware sprites limitations.
Maybe they had to adapt to the 4 sprites limitation per scanline ?

I prefer the software sprites of the cpc version, even in mode 0 res.

Offline sigh

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Re: Street Fighter II - CPC Edition
« Reply #33 on: 14:01, 27 September 13 »
It's true that the msx version works well, but it suffers from the hardware sprites limitations.
Maybe they had to adapt to the 4 sprites limitation per scanline ?

I prefer the software sprites of the cpc version, even in mode 0 res.

 


Regardless of the hardware sprite limitations on the MSX 2, the playability of the game "feels" like a proper streetfighter 2 game.This to me is far more important than anything else.


(but that's coming from a self confessed Street Fighter fan :D )


Just wondering - do you think it would be worth adding the extra characters and backgrounds to turn this into "Super StreetFighter 2 Turbo"? This would make it the definitive Streetfighter 2 as that was the last of the series. It would be great if you could!
« Last Edit: 14:04, 27 September 13 by sigh »

Offline Xifos

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Re: Street Fighter II - CPC Edition
« Reply #34 on: 14:39, 27 September 13 »

Regardless of the hardware sprite limitations on the MSX 2, the playability of the game "feels" like a proper streetfighter 2 game.This to me is far more important than anything else.


You have a point here.
Gameplay is the most important.
 ;)

Offline fano

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Re: Street Fighter II - CPC Edition
« Reply #35 on: 15:16, 27 September 13 »
 


Regardless of the hardware sprite limitations on the MSX 2, the playability of the game "feels" like a proper streetfighter 2 game.This to me is far more important than anything else.


(but that's coming from a self confessed Street Fighter fan :D )
I am exactly in this case and i noticed too MSX version seems to own a good behavior (in proportion because it is just a MSX)
Btw, seems to miss projections and there is a need to try this to check if other SF2 features are respected like chaining or hit priority.
« Last Edit: 15:18, 27 September 13 by fano »
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Offline AugustoRuiz

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Re: Street Fighter II - CPC Edition
« Reply #36 on: 15:32, 27 September 13 »
I am exactly in this case and i noticed too MSX version seems to own a good behavior (in proportion because it is just a MSX)
Btw, seems to miss projections and there is a need to try this to check if other SF2 features are respected like chaining or hit priority.
It would help a lot having some info on those features (hit chaining and hit priority). I've been searching for them, but couldn't find any. Any help is welcome...

Offline fano

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Re: Street Fighter II - CPC Edition
« Reply #37 on: 16:02, 27 September 13 »
It would help a lot having some info on those features (hit chaining and hit priority). I've been searching for them, but couldn't find any. Any help is welcome...
Sadly , this is just empiric observations as never tried to reverse it and do i do not got the source code.That was long time ago (20years ?), i was a fan of SF2 (and CPC user) and studied a bit its mecanisms.


As far i remember , it seems to includes a priority system , some attack will 'break' other.For example light attack will generaly break heavies (but there are exceptions), some other attacks used as defense will break attacks (Ryu/Ken heavy punch crouched will break nearly all air attack) , some attack will make you unvulnerable during them (the famous Ruy/Ken dragon punch that passes trough hadoken for example).That lets me think there is a priority system (or collision points and boxes are very well positionned)


About chaining , maybe i am wrong but if i remember well there is something like "pre-combo" system (can not remember the first game that comes with combo , FF/MK ?).Some attacks combinaisons will allow you to disable oponent ability to guard/counter attack and you will be able to hit him even if he's in damage state (so unvulnerable).With Ken/Ruy , if you attack oponent when landing with heavy punch and chain with heavy punch (can not remember if it is crouched or not) , he will not be able to protect or to counter attack.If my memory is good, you can chain the same way with heavy foot and crouched heavy foot.


I wrote in the past a VM for SF2 like games (sadly all my job is lost) and there is an important thing, you must process attack responses at the end to allow balanced game for both opponents else one player will always have priority on other.


About IA , it is a bit tricky to program but with mixing predifined and adaptatives sequences, i think it is possible to get something correct as CPU opponent.


Sorry to seems to nickpit with that but i've been a huge fan of SF2, this is an old dream to see a CPC version (like R-Type) and your project is very interesting , if you need someone to help for betatesting , just get me in touch  ;)
« Last Edit: 16:04, 27 September 13 by fano »
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Offline Gryzor

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Re: Street Fighter II - CPC Edition
« Reply #38 on: 20:45, 27 September 13 »
This is... what... I'm touched... :`)

Offline dcdrac

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Re: Street Fighter II - CPC Edition
« Reply #39 on: 21:54, 27 September 13 »
would love to be a beta tester for this as well

Offline MacDeath

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Re: Street Fighter II - CPC Edition
« Reply #40 on: 23:51, 27 September 13 »
Quote
This is really good news that they got it working at that speed as the CPC specs (correct me if I'm wrong) are quite similar to the MSX 2 specs?
Not really...

MSX2 has even bigger issues than CPC to scroll smoothly, but it also has many sweet Hardsprites... extra soundchips as well...

512×212 (16 colours out of 512) and 256×212 (256 colours) video modes...

128K just as video RAM...


Quote
MSX (first generation)

The effect of attribute clash when using the 256×192 Highres mode of TMS9918.
Processor: Zilog Z80A running at 3.58 MHz
ROM: 32 KB
BIOS (16 KB)
MSX BASIC V1.0 (16 KB)
RAM: 8 KB minimum, most machines provided either 32 or 64 KB; machines with 128 KB exist
Video Display Processor: Texas Instruments TMS9918 family
Video RAM: 16 KB
Text modes: 40×24 and 32×24
Resolution: 256×192 (16 colours). In reality there are just 15 colour tints available, because, just like Sinclair Spectrum there are two versions of black. Unlike the Spectrum however, one of the blacks is actually "transparent", so the MSX video picture could be overlayed on another video signal, for example one from a video disk.
Sprites: 32, 1 colour, max 4 per horizontal line
Sound chip: General Instrument AY-3-8910 (PSG)

Quote
MSX2

Processor: Zilog Z80A running at 3.58 MHz
ROM: 48 KB
BIOS + Extended BIOS (32 KB)
MSX BASIC V2.0 or V2.1 (16 KB)
DiskROM (16 KB) (optional, common)
MSX-Audio BIOS (32 KB) (optional, no machines are known with this BIOS built in)
RAM: 64 KB minimum, commonly 128 KB in Europe, 64 KB on Japanese computers, machines with up to 512 KB were made
Memory mapped (4 MB/slot max) (optional)
Video Display Processor: Yamaha V9938 (a.k.a. MSX-Video) Supports all MSX video modes plus:
Increased video RAM: 128 KB (sometimes 64 or 192 KB)
New text mode: 80×24
New bitmapped video modes without the attribute clash of MSX 1
New resolutions: 512×212 (16 colours out of 512) and 256×212 (256 colours)
Increased number of, and more advanced sprites: 32, 16 colours, max 8 per horizontal line
Hardware acceleration for copy, line, fill, etc.
Interlacing to double vertical resolution
A vertical scroll register
Vertical and horizontal display offset register
Sound chip: Yamaha YM2149 (PSG)
Clock chip: Ricoh RP5C01 (or compatible)
3.5 in (89 mm) Floppy disk drive is common

Quote
MSX2+

MSX2+ computer: a Panasonic FS-A1WSX
Only officially released in Japan (available in Europe and Brazil via upgrades)
Processor: Zilog Z80 compatible running at 3.58 MHz (the MSX2+ models from Panasonic can be set to run on 5.37 MHz by software, but this is not part of the standard)
ROM: 64 KB
BIOS + Extended BIOS (32 KB)
MSX BASIC V3.0 (16 KB)
DiskROM (16 KB) (optional, very common)
Kun-BASIC (16 KB) (optional)
Kanji ROM (optional)
RAM: commonly 64 KB (on Japanese computers)
Memory mapped (4 MB/slot max)
Video Display Processor: Yamaha V9958 (aka MSX-Video) All of MSX2's specifications plus:
The minimal video RAM is now 128 KB. Up to 192KB is supported.
a new 256×212 YJK video mode with 19268 simultaneous colors
a new 256×212 mixed-YJK/RGB video mode with 12499 simultaneous colors
a horizontal scroll register
Sound chip: Yamaha YM2149 (PSG)
Optional sound chip: Yamaha YM2413 (OPLL) (MSX-Music)
Clock chip RP5C01
3.5 in (89 mm) Floppy disk drive is very common

Quote
MSX turboR
Only released in Japan
Processor: R800 and Zilog Z80A compatible
R800 running at 7.16 MHz (instructions use about 4x less clock ticks than the Z80, so often quoted as 28.6 MHz when comparing with the Z80)
Zilog Z80A compatible (embedded in the T9769C MSX-Engine) running at 3.58 MHz for backward compatibility
ROM: 96 KB
BIOS + Extended BIOS (48 KB)
MSX BASIC V4.0 (16 KB)
DiskROM (16 KB)
Kun-BASIC (16 KB)
Kanji ROM (256 KB)
Firmware (4 MB)
RAM: 256 KB (FS-A1ST) or 512 KB (FS-A1GT)
Memory mapped (4 MB/slot max)
Additionally 16 KB (FS-A1ST) or 32 KB (FS-A1GT) of SRAM (battery-powered)
Video Display Processor: Yamaha V9958 (aka MSX-Video) so the same capabilities as MSX2+
Sound chip: Yamaha YM2149 (PSG)
Sound chip: Yamaha YM2413 (OPLL) (MSX-Music)
Sound chip: PCM
8-bit single channel (no DMA), 16 kHz max using BIOS routines.
Microphone built-in
Sound chip: MIDI in/out (FS-A1GT only)
Clock chip
3.5 in (89 mm) Floppy disk drive

MSX2 is more somewhat to the level of a bold PLUS than a CPC, just he was often limited because of MSX1 retro compatibility and scrolling issues.

but yeah, the z80 is the same speed, somewhat.

Offline Optimus

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Re: Street Fighter II - CPC Edition
« Reply #41 on: 10:09, 28 September 13 »
Wow, just saw this one!
Then I ran youtube videos of speccy and c64 versions just for the laughs :)
This looks quite promising, graphics are quite good made and finally smooth movement!
I am curious how this will go.

Offline MacDeath

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Re: Street Fighter II - CPC Edition
« Reply #42 on: 21:06, 28 September 13 »
Concerning the "limited number of buttons" aspect.

Keyboard can give some extra buttons.

for a 1 player mode, you can try to enable custom joystick/pads using both joy"ports" at the same time. because you know, you can connect 2 joystick on one port with the Y-cable... so you can actually get 4+4+1+1 buttons from this plug.

On a PLUS machine you can get both digital Joyports (same as the joy port on CPC + Y-cable), but also many "extra buttons" with the analog port... actually enabling a double joy' + many buttons per joy' experience.

yes this would need customer made adapters/especially cabled joypads/sticks...
But just to support the option/gamplay may get some peoples to solder stuffs and try it. (and some help from a redefine keys option...ouch)

And also we gotta remember keyboard/joystick clashes are a common amstrad occurence.

concerning the non scrolling :
Because the CPC can remove the borders, it may be a huge gain to get rid of this scrolling.
Even if it doesn't impact the framerate, it takes impact on RAM because you have to store the extra background.
And it doesn't really make the game better after all.

Deal with it, you may have to cut some of the arcade's features anyway.


Quote
hardware sprite limitations on the MSX 2
only 4 sprites per line ? on an MSX2 ?
I bet some other MSX2 limitations were at work.

Not every models had Disk drives and 128+ RAM... some were cassette and 64K ram only (yet a lot of VRAM)

According to the specs I put before :
Quote
Increased number of, and more advanced sprites: 32, 16 colours, max 8 per horizontal line

This is quite enough to get 2 characters well displayed... but yet how do you store those 4bpp spritessheet in 64K RAM only machine ?
Well the video tells it is a 128KRAM + 128KVRAM machine.
What is the video mode used by the backfrounds ? is this an attributed one or a 16 colours 4bpp one ?
Also the extrasoundcards may take some place.

of course i would love to have informations on the matter.
« Last Edit: 21:23, 28 September 13 by MacDeath »

Offline DaDMaN

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Re: Street Fighter II - CPC Edition
« Reply #43 on: 17:25, 03 February 14 »
New Street Fighter II beta versión for MSX2 computers...
Extra sound hardware: FMPac for Music and MoonSound for samples.

Street Fighter beta for MSX2

Offline Puresox

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Re: Street Fighter II - CPC Edition
« Reply #44 on: 22:38, 03 February 14 »
Wow that looks impressive!

Offline mahlemiut

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Re: Street Fighter II - CPC Edition
« Reply #45 on: 23:47, 03 February 14 »
Looks awesome.  But it looks like the gameplay isn't all that great.  Which means it's at least on par with the PC version. :)

And why does Dhalsim sound like Ryu?
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Offline Puresox

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Re: Street Fighter II - CPC Edition
« Reply #46 on: 00:08, 04 February 14 »
Gameplay looks pretty good to me , for an 8bit?

Offline TotO

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Re: Street Fighter II - CPC Edition
« Reply #47 on: 10:00, 04 February 14 »
It's not CPC related, but don't forget that run on a MSX-2.
It's VDP is enough powerful for doing that, and probably more... The 8bit CPU is not a problem.
« Last Edit: 10:02, 04 February 14 by TotO »
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Offline fano

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Re: Street Fighter II - CPC Edition
« Reply #48 on: 10:25, 04 February 14 »
Must say it is very impressive, but the v9938 is very powerfull too...
This a beta , let's wait to see if the gameplay becomes mature.
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Offline sigh

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Re: Street Fighter II - CPC Edition
« Reply #49 on: 14:04, 04 February 14 »
Looks awesome.  But it looks like the gameplay isn't all that great.  Which means it's at least on par with the PC version. :)

And why does Dhalsim sound like Ryu?

It's beta, so I'm guessing that they haven't implemented Dhalsim voice yet and are using Ryu's as place holder.

Graphically it looks excellent. If they get the gameplay to the standard of the "MSX StreetFighter 2" it will be very good indeed.
The only thing that concerns me is the lack of play area as the width is very small. At such a tight width with those large sprites, the screen will need to scroll or you'll end up being trapped in a corner far to easily.
This is what I liked about the "MSX StreetFighter 2" version as although the sprites are tiny, the play area is a perfect length.

From the comments, it seems that they are using some form of expanded memory?