Vespertino

[Prodatron]

In the 80s we loved people, whether they were beautiful women or strong men. Today, we spend more time discussing what's not allowed than simply creating great and useful things 

[Gryzor]

Well if a movie was done in an 80s style, with all the stereotypes included (and there are such movies) we'd still have fun and laugh both with and at it; not because "we appreciate such images" (as if we're teens gawking over a glimpse of showing ankle), not because we would agree with or accept what we saw, but because there are people who can distinguish between "OMG BOOOOOBZ" and a representation of the era. 

Boy I think Aristophanes would have a hard time today...

[robcfg]

Heh! We played Lysistrata in High School, fun times! 

[OneVision]

Having worked in the video game industry and commented/validated marketing assets for about 25 years, I'd say that this cover does the job but IMHO the globe is too big and hides too much the cars between the red one. Also the girl has not the same scale as the main red car which is a bit troubling. I would have focused more on cars than on the girl.

Anyway this is a good piece of marketing artwork nevertheless, lightyears away from most materials from average homebrew. We're approaching professional quality here, in my opinion.

[Gryzor]

Heh! We played Lysistrata in High School, fun times! 

Lysistrata is a prime example... I'm doing a seminar right now and am bored to death so I started thinking about the whole thing, so I asked ChatGTP for a more complete list (hit Expand):

Here's a complete but concise list of why Aristophanes would likely be considered offensive or "cancellable" by today's standards—especially in the context of modern social norms, sensitivities, and platforms like social media:


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🔞 1. Sexually Explicit Content

Constant phallic imagery and sexual jokes (e.g., The Clouds, Lysistrata)

Overt discussions of erections, masturbation, and orgies

Casual references to sexual coercion or dominance


🧠 Logic Check: What was satirical for Athenian theater would now trip content filters and spark debate on public decency.


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🧍�♂️🧍�♀️ 2. Misogyny and Gender Stereotypes

Women as manipulative, simple-minded, or sex-obsessed (Ecclesiazusae, Lysistrata)

Lysistrata's premise is that women can't resist sex long enough to impact politics

Ridicule of gender roles and fluidity in ways that mock rather than affirm


🎭 Framework (Double Diamond): While Aristophanes explores female agency, the framing often reinforces rather than subverts patriarchal norms.


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🧑�❤️�💋�🧑 3. Homophobia or Problematic Portrayals of Same-Sex Desire

Mockery of effeminate men or passive homosexual roles (The Clouds, Thesmophoriazusae)

Queer-coded characters treated as comic buffoons or moral degenerates


📚 Academic Insight (Sedgwick, 1990): Such portrayals rely on stigmatizing sexual variance as deviance.


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✝️🕊� 4. Religious Irreverence

Satirizing traditional gods and religious rituals (e.g., The Birds, The Frogs)

Accusations of atheism in The Clouds' mockery of Zeus

Profaning sacred spaces and beliefs


👀 Real-World Anecdote: Socrates was executed partially for impiety; Aristophanes mocking him in The Clouds arguably fueled public hostility.


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⚔️ 5. Nationalism and Ethnic Mockery

Mocking foreign customs, dialects, and dress (e.g., Persians, Spartans, Scythians)

Ethnic slurs or xenophobic caricatures used for comic relief


🌍 Modern View: Today's audiences are more attuned to colonial and racial subtexts.


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🏛� 6. Political Smearing and Defamation

Relentlessly mocking public figures (Cleon, Socrates, Euripides) by name

Using plays as political hit pieces

Encouraging ridicule-based populism


⚖️ Debate Mode: Free speech vs. targeted humiliation—modern defamation laws and cancel culture would clash with his style.


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🧒 7. Inappropriate Treatment of Children or Youth

Jokes about child sexuality or young boys in sexual contexts

Pedagogical satire that veers into pedophilic innuendo


🚨 Red Flag: These lines would trigger serious backlash or bans today.


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📢 8. Anti-Democratic Undercurrents

Mocking the Athenian mob, juries, and democracy itself

Portraying the masses as ignorant, manipulable, or lazy


🧠 Framework Injection: From a civic perspective (Deliberative Democracy model), this challenges the legitimacy of collective rule.


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✳️ Summary: Why Aristophanes Would Be "Cancelled" Today

Sexual explicitness + innuendo → NSFW + flagged for obscenity

Misogyny + gender jokes → "Problematic" feminist backlash

Ethnic & LGBTQ mockery → "Bigoted" by modern diversity norms

Religious satire → Accusations of cultural disrespect

Public smears → Violates norms of civility and cancel resistance

Pedo-adjacent jokes → Flat-out unacceptable



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💡 Final Note: Aristophanes used comedy as criticism, not endorsement—but satire doesn't always translate well across time. As Gibson (2022) argues, contextual literacy is vital when judging historical voices—but that nuance is often lost in cancellation d
iscourse.

[rexbeng]

Oh wait, I have a good example! How about a presumably non-marketing, unprofessional cover...


...and then an obviously professional, driven by marketing version.

[Gryzor]

Oh wait, I have a good example! How about a presumably non-marketing, unprofessional cover...


...and then an obviously professional, driven by marketing version.

I actually much prefer the first over the overly generic second one

[rexbeng]

Yes, because my post is sarcastic. 

[Gryzor]

Yes, because my post is sarcastic.

I was certain 99.9%.

[andycadley]

Still not as weird as the SNES art



But they were all produced at different times for different markets, probably by different marketing teams with whatever strategy they supposedly had.

I'm not sure why you'd single out any on version as being "not professional" regardless of your overall opinion of each.

[Anthony Flack]

Oh yeah, that's the game with the old hillbilly on the cover isn't it? Now we're really going off topic.

There does seem to be a bit of a trend in the retro community towards AI-generated pinup girls at the moment. BastichB's C64 roundup is covered in 'em. I do find it a bit cringey myself, but you could say that's a matter of taste. Never mind they look young enough to be our kids! Maybe these girls are supposed to be FROM the 1980s, I don't know. 

I guess you could argue that in a community that is already nearly 100% male you might as well lean into it. Or say that people making things in their own time have the freedom to do things however they please, which is totally true. But you might also reflect that these attitudes may be part of the reason for the community being almost 100% male to begin with.

Angela Collier's video essay about the various ways women are pushed out of STEM is worth watching if you felt like considering a female perspective. Also Kate Beaton's graphic novel Ducks, about how it feels for a woman to work in a male-dominated environment and be constantly objectified, and the mental toll of that. Very good book, and more fun than it sounds?

Otherwise, I don't think I'd trust a bunch of guys in an already male-dominated community to debate what an acceptable level of objectification is. 

I think the Vespertino girl looks a little cheap because she appears to have been shoved into an existing composition that has no space for her, creating havoc with perspective, just to get tits on the box. It does offend my eyes a little (she can't be behind the car!) Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things; the game itself looks amazing.

But I also think there's more to this topic than it just being a "people these days, offended at everything" issue. 80s computer scene is overwhelmingly male-dominated; that didn't just happen for no reason. Considering some female perspectives would probably be more enlightening than arguing about it amongst our overwhelmingly male selves. 

[lmimmfn]

Oh yeah, that's the game with the old hillbilly on the cover isn't it? Now we're really going off topic.

There does seem to be a bit of a trend in the retro community towards AI-generated pinup girls at the moment. BastichB's C64 roundup is covered in 'em. I do find it a bit cringey myself, but you could say that's a matter of taste. Never mind they look young enough to be our kids! Maybe these girls are supposed to be FROM the 1980s, I don't know.

I guess you could argue that in a community that is already nearly 100% male you might as well lean into it. Or say that people making things in their own time have the freedom to do things however they please, which is totally true. But you might also reflect that these attitudes may be part of the reason for the community being almost 100% male to begin with.

Angela Collier's video essay about the various ways women are pushed out of STEM is worth watching if you felt like considering a female perspective. Also Kate Beaton's graphic novel Ducks, about how it feels for a woman to work in a male-dominated environment and be constantly objectified, and the mental toll of that. Very good book, and more fun than it sounds?

Otherwise, I don't think I'd trust a bunch of guys in an already male-dominated community to debate what an acceptable level of objectification is.

I think the Vespertino girl looks a little cheap because she appears to have been shoved into an existing composition that has no space for her, creating havoc with perspective, just to get tits on the box. It does offend my eyes a little (she can't be behind the car!) Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things; the game itself looks amazing.

But I also think there's more to this topic than it just being a "people these days, offended at everything" issue. 80s computer scene is overwhelmingly male-dominated; that didn't just happen for no reason. Considering some female perspectives would probably be more enlightening than arguing about it amongst our overwhelmingly male selves.

I would imagine if a guy was working in a female dominated work environment he would also be objectified, but that's never mentioned of course.

I picked my wife up one time when she was out drinking with her work colleagues(all female), they were all drunk, dear God never again.

[Brocky]

i just wanna add that "grid girls" where a thing in the 80s....so for a game based in the 80s..whats the problem!?

and if ya really look at the grid girls being removed from real world motorsport... it removed a legitimate income and career pathway for women...where did they go instead?
...oh thats right.. OF...

i dont see how having an ai woman on the front of the box is such a big issue other than triggering a few of the woke

there is a simple fix tho.....could always put her in a race suit and give her a wheel gun!...

[ZorrO]

They gone on Insta or OnlyFans.