WTF - Interesting they have the rights to do so

[Shining]

Interesting that someone sells plus cartridges with official games.
I've no understanding for that.

https://www.amstrad-noob.com/2021/08/26/getting-custom-3rd-party-cartridges-for-your-amstrad-plus-computer/

[eto]

I am not sure what I think about this.


On one hand, it's probably not legal and definitely at least questionable. On the other hand, he produces high quality stuff for a very low price - great way to get a "physical release" for the GX/plus of your favourite "abandonware" game, and probably no harm done as he's not claiming to sell originals.

However it seems he is also selling cartridges of recent releases. If the authors have not given permission, I would definitely say this is unacceptable.

[zeropolis79]

It all depends. Some developers/copyright holders wouldn't care unless (to them) it harmed a remake of such and such a game on modern formats. But I agree with the poster above, if it was say Brick Rick done without permission, then I could see it becoming a problem.

[reidrac]

It all depends. Some developers/copyright holders wouldn't care unless (to them) it harmed a remake of such and such a game on modern formats. But I agree with the poster above, if it was say Brick Rick done without permission, then I could see it becoming a problem.

I know the Dawn of Kernel exists as a cart for the GX4000 and, as far as I know, it was a private project and was never sold (I was never asked for permission, I'm not sure).

In older games I used to provide a very permissive license, but given that most people don't care and the simplest conditions aren't respected (e.g. please include the license file when you re-distribute the game), the Dawn of Kernel is "all rights reserved".

Does it matter? I don't think there's any difference between people not caring about their rights* and current devs. There's that "free for all" idea in this hobby that I understand, but at the same time I know a few devs very frustrated because of it. Which is a shame, because some things are made for love, but love won't last forever.

(*by the way, this is usually not the devs but the company that employed them, or not even that if the IP was transferred at some point)

Anyway, I made the games for people to enjoy them, but there are some limits; and profit is definitely one of them. But then, I'm not sure what I could do if that was the case.

[Shaun M. Neary]

Doing this for Donkey Kong was a bad idea given how quick Nintenblow are at having stuff like that shut down.

[TotO]

I can understand that someone do it for his own usage and share the designs for peoples.
Like @iXien does for the CPC homebrew covers for his custom floppy disc collection.

But here, the guy do it for commercial games and sold them, that is not the same.
That it possible because some fans does games coversions to ROM on this forum.

[andycadley]

I find it hard to believe there is any real profit to be made (maybe pocket money amounts at best). I think as long as they are obviously not original (so they aren't passed off as genuine 90's cart to collectors) then I don't think it really does much harm.


Obviously if some coder doesn't want their game sold (or is selling it themselves) then it shouldn't be copied. Mostly though I think of it as an interesting "What If?" type scenario, if carts had been prevalent I wonder how many of these games might have been in people's collection today.

[reidrac]

Actually, in the original post you can see Space Moves.

I don't know under what conditions Retrobytes released the game (including a CPR), or if they gave permission, but that's a new game!

[Phantomz]

I can understand that someone do it for his own usage and share the designs for peoples.
Like @iXien does for the CPC homebrew covers for his custom floppy disc collection.

But here, the guy do it for commercial games and sold them, that is not the same.
That it possible because some fans does games coversions to ROM on this forum.

It's possible for this guy to do so as anyone can just grab a cracked version of the game and just use the nocart program.
It only takes a simple command to convert a dsk to cpr, they will work on any plus machine as they have a keyboard.

In the video the guy loads " Prince of Persia ", this hasn't been converted to the GX4000, so someone has simply used the nocart program.

[Shaun M. Neary]

If they're new games that are still currently being sold, the developer of the game can still go after the cartridge maker for copyright infringement.

(Technically so can the copyright owners of the other games too, however they're probably not arsed, but anyone who's done games recently may not want their programs distributed this way for profit they won't receive a dime for. They could also contact the seller with a simple cease and desist too, but it's ultimately at their discretion)

[Shaun M. Neary]

Looks like here's the man responsible for the carts.
Doesn't do a great job hiding himself...

https://www.facebook.com/pg/Anakintf/services/

[TotO]

It's like saying that stealing goods or driving without a license is prohibited, but if he doesn't get caught he won't have a problem playing the outlaw.

[Shaun M. Neary]

It's like saying that stealing goods or driving without a license is prohibited, but if he doesn't get caught he won't have a problem playing the outlaw.

Yes and no. He has actually been caught now, it's just up to whoever wrote games that are still being sold to pursue it if they choose to do so. 


(Personally if I was making unofficial carts of games still produced to sell, I wouldn't be plastering my face on my Facebook banner!  )

[anyweb]

wow i didn't expect this topic about my blog post (and video), I've been using Dandanators that came shipped with games and then re-programmed them with other games. All the games used are freely downloadable from many websites, I even link to the one that I picked the games from, is it illegal ?
the thought that this was illegal was very far from my mind throughout this entire process, I just thought it was cool to be able to get the games I wanted in Cartridge format rather than loading then from tape, or DanDanator or M4 board, I've been using these sites for years to get games for the long dead Amstrad computers,
the cost per game including shipping was approx 15.3 euros which is hardly worth his trouble when you take into account printing the stickers, making the boxes, shipping, 3D printing and work involved, none of the games are originals, and most have some type of infinite lives hack applied...

I thought this was all for fun, but now I'm not so sure 

cheers
niall

[Animalgril987]

Well, Nintendo own the rights to Donkey Kong, and still produce games that have the DK characters, so duplicating and selling DK games without Nintendos permission is definitely illegal.

[iXien]

It's possible for this guy to do so as anyone can just grab a cracked version of the game and just use the nocart program.
It only takes a simple command to convert a dsk to cpr, they will work on any plus machine as they have a keyboard.

In the video the guy loads " Prince of Persia ", this hasn't been converted to the GX4000, so someone has simply used the nocart program.

Hi @Phantomz , I was just thinking exactly the same looking at the pictures. For me it's already a shame to sell the games that have been patched for GX-4000 but Prince Of Persia just won't work. I suppose he will tell it perfectly feet on 6128/464+ but the interest is even more reduced 

[iXien]

This is always the same old story. All games are already copyrighted for many years again. Sometimes rights holders are interested by these games and licences. Here we are talking about modern game companies that are in possessions of the rights from the beginning (all Ubi Soft or Electronic Arts games for example), and others that acquired the rights buying old companies that have now disappeared. Famous examples are Atari that was Infogrames, knowing that Infogrames bought lot of little european studios in late years of 80's (Microprose, Ocean, Gremlin are some of them if my memory doesn't abandon me) or Enix that acquired all Core Design games after buying Eidos. And to finish, you got all the banks and financial companies that are owners of a lot of game rights acquired "de facto" after the bankruptcy of old game companies.

By the way, until a right older clearly indicates that some of his games can be spreaded, you don't have the right to do so. And even with the blessing of the right holder, he surely didn't do this for guys to make profit with his games. What is sure is that even when a right holder provides an old game for free on his website for example, he keeps the right to ask you to stop your activity at any time, whereas it is for free or commercially.

About homebrew games, the frontier is even more thin because it's not because you created a game that law is immediatly behind you. All commercial games are protected because the creator made what is need to the competent public institutions of his country to establish the intellectual protection of his work. If the game is published, it's usually the company that make it. But if you create a game for fun and someone uses it to make profit, even showing the source code it will be difficult to clearly make the proof of your paternity.

On my website, I create for fun (and at first for my personnal use) covers for homebrew games. Each cover indicates at least the name of the team or the people involved in the creation of the game, the author of the visuals and all elements I found on the internet and I add my mark (called iXian Factory). Of course, as all of this is made for pleasure and by passion, I provided all the work for free and I will immediatly remove all the files from my website if an author ask me to do so. But what I know too is that if someone takes my covers (even the ones I completely created) and sell the games using the visual, it will be difficult for me and/or the author of the games to stop him.

Well, now we are talking of CPC. Here I think the question is more about respect for authors and of course for the guys that are ok to invest money in handwork physical games. In the case of these cartridge games, I'm not sure that UBI Soft will contact the guy to stop him selling cartridges containing Prince Of Persia for CPC. Old CPC games? Who cares? And maybe it's all the problem. If the right holder don't see a profit to be made or doesn't judge it's an attempt for his branding, so he probably made nothing. And it's of course a good opportunity for guys to make at least some pocket money.

In the end, here it's the consumer that is the last chain link, maybe it's up to us consumers to be careful where our money goes. After all, if no one buys games from people who shouldn't be selling them, they'll stop (yes I know I'm a sweet dreamer sometimes)

As a final word, I find these 3D printed cartridges and low quality stickers awful, but it's just my opinion 

[Shaun M. Neary]

wow i didn't expect this topic about my blog post (and video), I've been using Dandanators that came shipped with games and then re-programmed them with other games. All the games used are freely downloadable from many websites, I even link to the one that I picked the games from, is it illegal ?
the thought that this was illegal was very far from my mind throughout this entire process, I just thought it was cool to be able to get the games I wanted in Cartridge format rather than loading then from tape, or DanDanator or M4 board, I've been using these sites for years to get games for the long dead Amstrad computers,
the cost per game including shipping was approx 15.3 euros which is hardly worth his trouble when you take into account printing the stickers, making the boxes, shipping, 3D printing and work involved, none of the games are originals, and most have some type of infinite lives hack applied...

I thought this was all for fun, but now I'm not so sure 

cheers
niall

Hey Niall,
A lot of those games aren't necessarily illegal for distribution as they're freely available and obtainable on many locations.


But as @iXien has pointed out, the likes of Donkey Kong is not only copyrighted by Nintendblow, but it's one of their franchise names. We're talking the same company who had the entire sections of several rom sites nevermind their own section!


Then you have those who are still selling their work when it comes to recent releases and as harsh as it might come across, but they're being fucking fleeced.


For what it's worth, as the buyer, you're probably the least at fault. It's the person who's selling these individual cartridges who I, in particular, am targeting. The more recent games being made are amazing and I'd hate to see the likes of @reidrac or Batman Group etc no longer coming up with new stuff just because some scuzzball came up with a cheap circuit board to distribute them with nothing going to the ones who actually put the work in.


Just my 2c worth, will probably fall on deaf ears (like most of my posts, but that didn't stop me before and it won't stop me in future  )

[Phantomz]

Hey Niall,
A lot of those games aren't necessarily illegal for distribution as they're freely available and obtainable on many locations.


But as @iXien has pointed out, the likes of Donkey Kong is not only copyrighted by Nintendblow, but it's one of their franchise names. We're talking the same company who had the entire sections of several rom sites nevermind their own section!

I know a few of those sites won't have the rom with the Tetris emulator, however Donkey Kong is available, maybe it should be removed from wiki along with any others that aren't allowed.

[iXien]

wow i didn't expect this topic about my blog post (and video), I've been using Dandanators that came shipped with games and then re-programmed them with other games. All the games used are freely downloadable from many websites, I even link to the one that I picked the games from, is it illegal ?
the thought that this was illegal was very far from my mind throughout this entire process, I just thought it was cool to be able to get the games I wanted in Cartridge format rather than loading then from tape, or DanDanator or M4 board, I've been using these sites for years to get games for the long dead Amstrad computers,
the cost per game including shipping was approx 15.3 euros which is hardly worth his trouble when you take into account printing the stickers, making the boxes, shipping, 3D printing and work involved, none of the games are originals, and most have some type of infinite lives hack applied...

I thought this was all for fun, but now I'm not so sure 

cheers
niall

As said @Shaun M. Neary , the problem isn't actually you but guys that make money on the collectors we are all here, creating illegal stuff with games of our childhood 

[iXien]

I know a few of those sites won't have the rom with the Tetris emulator, however Donkey Kong is available, maybe it should be removed from wiki along with any others that aren't allowed.

If we remove files frome wiki, guys that really want will find them elsewhere, so I don't think it's relevant to deprive a majority of GX-4000/CPC gamers who are thrilled to be able to enjoy games for their own and private use because of a handful of profiteers.

[Shaun M. Neary]

I know a few of those sites won't have the rom with the Tetris emulator, however Donkey Kong is available, maybe it should be removed from wiki along with any others that aren't allowed.

Remember the internet pre forums and social media? Then you'll remember T.A.C.G.R (hi @Mathonar !), they had an *image* of DK for the CPC on the site, and Nintenblow had it taken down. And that was long before they cracked down on the rom sites.


That's who we're dealing with here.

[iXien]

Remember the internet pre forums and social media? Then you'll remember T.A.C.G.R (hi @Mathonar !), they had an *image* of DK for the CPC on the site, and Nintenblow had it taken down. And that was long before they cracked down on the rom sites.


That's who we're dealing with here.

It's difficult to create ROM spreading content thinking about the possible retaliation of powerful rights holders who strike as erratically as Nintendo, just to make an example from time to time. I tend to think that lightning doesn't fall in the same place twice and that ROM sites weren't as plentiful and popular when T.A.C.G.R bore the brunt of Nintendo's wrath. Ultimately, I think Nintendo has a lot more to do by suing sites that are openly making money with their most recent games than by arguing with our little CPC Wiki (fingers crossed) 

[Shaun M. Neary]

You might like to think that but Nintendblow's suits are still on the warpath.

This article from 2021
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2021/06/nintendo_wins_usd2_1_million_in_lawsuit_against_rom_website

[iXien]

You might like to think that but Nintendblow%u2019s suits are still on the warpath.

This article from 2021
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2021/06/nintendo_wins_usd2_1_million_in_lawsuit_against_rom_website

I am not candid, but neither should we live in terror. I already knew about the last fight from Nintendo. But I hope that in 2021 we can't really compare a website spreading CPC games containing 2 average Nintendo game conversions that was not even written by the company from Kyoto (Donkey Kong and Mario Bros) to ROM Universe and its tons of Nintendo games from NES to WiiU    After that, of course, I suppose nobody is sheltered from Nintendo's fury. But nowadays, Nintendo has a lot of others "ROMUniverse-like" websites to fight against better than CPC-Wiki like he did with T.A.C.G.R in the past, in another era.

It's always the same more or less calculated risk. If you spread ROMs of image files of copyrighted softwares, you know you make it without the rights owner's agreement. But I think it must not stop the pleasure to share games for free with all passionate players, particularly on a so much small system as CPC