C64 Vs Speccy: Which one do you prefer as an Amstrad fan?

[cwpab]

I was thinking about a more open poll/topic, e. g. "What is your 2nd favorite 8-bit computer?", but in the end I decided to do a Vs. between the 2 most successful ones.

I suspect the ZX Spectrum will win here as its games look very similar to mode 1 games on the CPC, but I'm not sure.

In my case, I prefer the ZX Spectrum for several reasons. Firstly, because I played 4 of them back in the day:

- 1985-ish where I played Cookie, my first video game, on my dad's 48k sitting on the living room's floor.

- 1989-ish where I played Bomb Jack at some friend's house in his room sitting in proper chairs.

- 1991-ish where I played Batman (the movie) at some other friends house sitting on the living room's floor.

- 1997, where I played Jetpack after borrowing one from a friend (I know it sounds ridiculous, but this was not "retro": this was a proper machine to play games that I wanted to try because I didn't have a PC at the time and was still saving for the PSX... the experiment failed because there were only a few simple games, and things like Matchday 2 or Saboteur were not there).

All of them were tape machines, as far as I remember.

But also and most importantly, because one of my favorite gaming memories of all time is discovering a ZX Spectrum emulator in 1997 and playing most of my CPC games for the first time since 1992, when the evil disk drive belt broke and my dad gave the CPC away cheaply (actually I played them one day in 1995 visiting a friend with a surviving CPC... and I gave him my original games, such a great idea in hindsight!). I also tried many random games on that emulator, discovering gems like Tornado Low Level or Alien.

The Commodore 64 is a weird machine I discovered much later, basically on Youtube. Never knew anyone who had one personally here in Spain. There are many games, even more than for the ZX Spectrum, but the color palette is so "emo" that I find it a bit unpleasant even compared to the kitsch Speccy display.

Also, while certainly most C64 fans are cool guys, the number of anal fans seems to be shockingly high compared to other retro computers. For example, a few years ago I remember one or two Spanish C64 fans creating huge drama and feuds on Twitter over the machine modern game catalog and hidden capabilities, even stating that the colors were actually happy if displayed on a proper TV. Things that you would normally find immature when you're 20 years old, made by 45 year olds. So yeah, that didn't exactly help me appreciate the machine more.

What's your perception of these 2 machines? Am I correct to assume most of you prefer the Speccy?

[Shaun M. Neary]

Outside of the CPC, I went for the C64 due to the criminal amount of bad spectrum ports the CPC got, I didn't really like the whole blend in with the background syndrome.

A lot of fun C64 games out there that I got exposed to, which I'll list and why.

Kikstart II: Horizontal split screen 2 player is so much fun that you could burn hours on it.
Outrun: Predetermined tracks, but so fast and so smooth.
Continental Circus: More proof that the C64 *can* do a racing game once the programmers were arsed.
Buggy Boy: Best 8bit version of this game out there, the CPC version was just way too slow.
Ghosts N Goblins: Put the original CPC version to shame, and I liked the CPC version
Kung Fu Master: So close to the arcade version, however the graphics on the level 3 boss are a crime.
The Last Ninja: There is no version better than the C64 version, the CPC didn't even get it. It got Last Ninja II and it was such a bad speccy port that it even emulated the beeper speaker sound!

Just my 2,000,000 euros worth though.

[eto]

The C64 has some nice and interesting features that made it a great game console and music device - and beats the CPC in those areas. That is at least interesting.

But the (original) Speccy is just awful compared to the CPC. The only reason to prefer it could be that the original versions of crappy Speccy ports run faster on the original machine (and are not crappy there). But then again, I would probably almost always prefer the C64 version. If not for the eye watering colour clash then at least so I don't have to listen to the clicks and farts of the Speccy speaker.

[McArti0]

ZX Spectrum +3 ?  

[dodogildo]

C64 just for the energetic scene and great demos. And for the fantastic Ultimate 1541 + Assembly64 integration! (Which is the best thing ever happened for any retro computer since 80s)
(Don't get me wrong, I also am big fan of Speccy and using it actively)

[andycadley]

My first computer was a Speccy, so it's always going to win out for me. Although the joy of the modern world is that we don't really have to choose one any more, just fire up an emulator and play whatever. Which is pretty amazing when you think about it.

[zhulien]

I like the games better on c64 but I like programming more than game playing and for that I'd have to choose the zx spectrum. I did many years ago make some software in c64 but it wasn't as fun programming. I'm keen to get Vision Basic as that looks incredible for  c64 basic compiler. 

[ZorrO]

Don't rely on memory, just compare the games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wce82Q54dpA&list=PLIX9fyYxV0k_CanGbwkXdtlhmdtO62ZRW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsV2sw3ulg4&list=PLxOanVBhqd3tGbtF6YywnVMgSg9Gip6nB


C64 has a larger resolution, better colors, uses colors more freely, faster Basic, and normal command entry, and sprites, while ZX only has the DRAW command. C64 wins. And wide pixels more similar to CPC.

[andycadley]

C64 has a larger resolution, better colors, uses colors more freely, faster Basic, and normal command entry, and sprites, while ZX only has the DRAW command. C64 wins. And wide pixels more similar to CPC.

Not really. In the higher resolution (320*200) the C64 can still only have 2 colours per 8*8 pixel square, except that one of those colours also has to be shared across the whole screen. So it's actually less capable of using colours freely compared to the Spectrum in that regard.

I think it's arguably about which had the fastest BASIC, but absolutely undeniable that the C64 had the most limited. It was completely lacking in any graphics commands at all and most of the things you'd expect from an 80s home computer relied on resorting to long lists of POKEs. 

It's a good machine for playing games on, but not much of a programmer's machine unless you were prepared early on to dive into assembly language (or buy an extension cartridge like Simon's BASIC to get a decent environment).

[Prodatron]

For me it apears to be very obvious that the C64 is much better than the Spectrum. The original ULA graphics just sucks.
Because of my old memories I voted for the C64, as 99% of my friends had a commodore and noone a Spectrum, and so I had - beside of my CPC - very nice moments with C64 games in the mid/end 80ies.

What is very cool about the Spectrum is that it created one of the best Z80 coders ever. That is always the advantage of limited systems.

[VincentGR]

C64 is a better computer and I love the SID.
I have both, but I feel better with ZX games so, speccy it is.

[dodogildo]

and I love the SID.

SID is.. well.. just loveable 

[Sykobee (Briggsy)]

C64

I say this since I got a Spectrum Next, and truly realised how awful the plain old Spectrum was.

However on a 'preferableness / £' metric they are about equal - that awfulness came cheap.

C64 has SID, some ability to mix colours, sprites and hardware scrolling and 64KB. As a games machine it was far superior to the Spectrum. It also, due to its massive US sales, had a lot of business software that may have paled in comparison with the CPC due to 40 column limitation and overuse of blue, but at least wasn't 32 column.

However if you had a Spectrum as your first computer, I can understand the nostalgia weight that applies.

[asertus]

C64 was amazing by the time it came. Just comparing C64 games to Atari 8bit games, C64 wins far..  I compare these computers because pricing was similar.
ZX was same year, but waaay cheaper. Of course I would prefer a C64.., but price counts.

Btw, I met first a C64, a cousin got one along with a BASIC course.. and 2 years later, 1985, I got my CPC...

[cwpab]

The 64 is winning here because people are more technical, but I suspect the ZX Spectrum would win among regular CPC users.

Because seriously, guys, don't you feel an emotional attachment to the Speccy games because of the simliarity with CPC mode 1 games? But running at their original faster speed! (and with color clash).

I mean, I know it's not possible that everyone has its CPC broken due do disk drive belt at 12 and then "recovers" it thanks to a Speccy emulator when he's 17 because somehow the CPC emulator arrived many months later to me, but... Don't you feel anything when you run the original Saboteur 1 and 2 and Matchday 2?

[eto]

that awfulness came cheap.

oh I love that comment :-)

[eto]

Because seriously, guys, don't you feel an emotional attachment to the Speccy games because of the simliarity with CPC mode 1 games?

Exactly the opposite. Whenever I see the Speccy in action I am reminded that it's the reason (okay, okay, not the Speccy per se but the decision makers) we got so many crappy ports.

But: it's also clear that without the Speccy we would not have gotten the CPC. It was a great example for Amstrad how to build a cheap computer based on standard components and at the same time it was the perfect example for what to avoid. 

[BSC]

What is very cool about the Spectrum is that it created one of the best Z80 coders ever.

Who is that person? 

[dodogildo]

Regarding Speccy ports.. My heart is always with the Speccy originals - because they run smoother and play better (even with the color clash) than our crappy versions in 90% of the cases.

[BSC]

I voted for the Speccy because it was my first computer (the 16k version) and I have fond memories of playing some cute games like Pssst!, Tranz Am, Jetpac, Froggy, Skooldaze and lot of others which I don't remember right now. Those games had some cuteness to them which the C64 games back then were lacking. And I was not very fond of Commodore in the 80s .. I did play my fair amount of C64 games at friends places, but I think I was also too influenced by the graphics style and the strong colours of the Speccy to be able to appreciate how most games on the C64 looked.

[cwpab]

I had totally forgotten about Tranz Am. It's a shame it was released too early for the CPC. It's an example of why I like retro games. It gives me serious Saboteur vibes: it's amazing that 1 or 2 guys could create such original and expansive games with barely any references.

What a nice Speccy exclusive!

PS: It looks like the 2 brothers from Ultimate later founded Rare, where they programmed games on a cool farmhouse (they said this environment helped them, I think it's a similar case to Lucasfilm Games ranch).

[Shaun M. Neary]

The 64 is winning here because people are more technical, but I suspect the ZX Spectrum would win among regular CPC users.

Because seriously, guys, don't you feel an emotional attachment to the Speccy games because of the simliarity with CPC mode 1 games? But running at their original faster speed! (and with color clash).

I mean, I know it's not possible that everyone has its CPC broken due do disk drive belt at 12 and then "recovers" it thanks to a Speccy emulator when he's 17 because somehow the CPC emulator arrived many months later to me, but... Don't you feel anything when you run the original Saboteur 1 and 2 and Matchday 2?

God no! Mode 1 when done right is really nice, don't get me wrong.

But lazy Speccy ports made me utterly detest that machine (and I have a +3 here!)
The original Spectrum rubber keyed abortion has nothing lovable for me personally, having to buy an expansion just to use a joystick, and the worst external tape interface. How many times have I seen rtape load error?

Then the Amstrad versions from the +2 onwards had their own issues. Constantly chopping and changing the ULA's and causing all sorts of compatibility problems.
And don't get me started on the utter shitshow that the +2b was from a hardware perspective. @CraigsBar will vouch for me on this one.

Sorry, but the Spectrum was bargain basement, and with that, you got bargain basement quality.

[ago]

The 64 is winning here because people are more technical, but I suspect the ZX Spectrum would win among regular CPC users.

Because seriously, guys, don't you feel an emotional attachment to the Speccy games because of the simliarity with CPC mode 1 games? But running at their original faster speed! (and with color clash).

I mean, I know it's not possible that everyone has its CPC broken due do disk drive belt at 12 and then "recovers" it thanks to a Speccy emulator when he's 17 because somehow the CPC emulator arrived many months later to me, but... Don't you feel anything when you run the original Saboteur 1 and 2 and Matchday 2?

I never liked Spectrum games. The only game I liked to play on Spectrum was "Pang", and it was because I couldn't do it on my CPC. I cannot even play them on emulators. Sure, I could enjoy some of them, but I just don't like Spectrum games at all.

Then look at Last Ninja trilogy for example, or many other c64 games. It is not a matter of nostalgia, because I never played on a C64 as a kid, they are just good games on a good enough system.

My alternative system of choice would have been MSX2 anyway, as playing with my uncle's MSX2 was the reason I wanted a computer, but my parents (luckily) were addressed by the shop-assistant to get a CPC6128 instead (that was in 1989).

[cwpab]

I find it a bit odd that here in Spain, none of my friends as a kid had a C64... but one had an MSX.

I don't think the MSX sales were very good in Europe or USA, right?

[CraigsBar]

Of those 2 it has to be the C64 all the way. It's just more of a computer games machine. Although I never had either back in the day I was a CPC guy so why would I?

I had the best machine that I used for all my college and university assignments.... And oh let me play pang. 

I do not believe that either the C64 or speccy have a real 80 column display so are pretty useless for serious use. The C64. Excels at sprite driven games. The speccy excels at..... Erm..... propping a door open? 😉

So yeah of the 2 options it's a C64 for me. Unless you allow the Sam coupe and C128 in as further developments on the C64 and speccy platforms, in which case Sam Coupe wins it by miles.