Clive Sinclair claim Spectrum could have beat the PC

[dcdrac]

Just read this, Clive Sinclair, seems to believe if the PC had been put out by another company than IBM the spectrum would have beaten it commercially, that is a big statement to make considering the specttrum's limitations, something like the PC would have come along,  probably the Mac would have trumped it commercially if the PC had not.

BBC News - Syntax era: Sir Clive Sinclair's ZX Spectrum revolution

[sigh]

I find this quote interesting:


"Even if different choices had been taken, Sir Clive now acknowledges the Spectrum never had a real chance of beating the PCs of the time. "Their computer designs were abominable by our standards," he says.
"But because they were IBM they became the standard.
"IBM had such a powerful position, I don't think we could have challenged it."


One of the questions I asked at the Bedroom to Billions Q+A, was whether we'll see the UK enter the console market. US has XBOX and Japan has PS3/Nintendo.
I think it would be great to see the UK enter the console market, but with a built in keyboard

[dcdrac]

My Mistake yes sorr yhe said the design was abominable

[Zoe Robinson]

One of the questions I asked at the Bedroom to Billions Q+A, was whether we'll see the UK enter the console market. US has XBOX and Japan has PS3/Nintendo.

I would not be surprised if the GX4000 killed other British companies' thoughts of dipping their toes into that market.

[dcdrac]

The Raspberry Pi console.......

[sigh]

I would not be surprised if the GX4000 killed other British companies' thoughts of dipping their toes into that market.

..or maybe the Konix Multisystem:

Konix Multisystem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[TotO]

"Even if different choices had been taken, Sir Clive now acknowledges the Spectrum never had a real chance of beating the PCs of the time."

That means, the ZX had no chance to beat the PC. That is not a surprice ; It's just obvious.

[dcdrac]

was the Original PC such a bad design? 

[Bryce]

was the Original PC such a bad design?

No it wasn't.

With hindsight, any and all machines will have their weaknesses, but if you take the main factors into consideration: Target customer, price target, component prices, development time and technology of the time, then they did a pretty good job. It's very easy to look back now and say you would have done things better.

There are several threads here on "What the CPC should have done differently", but in reality, targets were set and that's what came out.

Bryce.

[dcdrac]

That Spectrum vega looks like what was done for the c64 recently

[MacDeath]

PC was so much more versatile than the ZX spectrum...
Could add video cards and sound cards...
Speccy on the other hand was quite poor concerning video modes.

As a "serious machine, the CPC is so much powerful indeed... 640x200, 320x200... and actually full screen possible...
Even PCW had a better chance to beat PC than Speccy.
But PCs evolved into 16bits... speccy didn't.
PC succeed because IBM got screewed by MicroSoft and their IBM standard actually became generic MS-Dos standard.
Hell IBM even failed at giving a decent video system through CGA and couldn't put an AY on the machine to save their live.

[Bryce]

PCs won the race because they were a modular architecture and because they were cloned, making every IBM standard an industry standard.

Bryce.

[TotO]

And don't forget that Amstrad does big improvements for the PC success, using ASIC technologies to dramaticaly decrease the prices!!! 

[Bryce]

And don't forget that Amstrad does big improvements for the PC success, using ASIC technologies to dramaticaly decrease the prices!!! 

That was hardly an Amstrad invention, the whole industry was moving in that direction at the time. Amstrad certainly wasn't the first.

Bryce.

[TotO]

Amstrad was the first with the PC 1512.
When they shown their computer doing the same as an IBM PS/2 for half size and four times less expensive.
Then, Compaq started to do the same, and it was the begin of the "low cost" PC. (related on "Les ordinateurs sont dangereux" book)

[Bryce]

I didn't mean for computers, I meant in general. Yes, they were the first to use one in the PC, but ASICs were gaining popularity in other industries long before that.

Bryce.

[TotO]

OK. I just answer about the ZX/PC discution.

[andycadley]

was the Original PC such a bad design?

Lot's of things about the original PC were absolutely terrible, not least the choice of the clunky x86 over something like the 68K. Certainly there were many platforms that could have beaten it, if they'd had the level of "off the shelf" openness that the PC architecture of the time did. If it had been even half as easy to clone the Mac, for example, the world would be a very different place today.

[TFM]

PCs started with the 8088, actually no competition to the Z80. The 8086 came alter, to get money from the customers twice. 

[ralferoo]

I can't remember where I read some of these things (and I read them all years ago), but...

The IBM PC could have been a 68000 design, but that chip was already being used by another department within IBM and so if they wanted to source the chip it'd have to be via that other department. So, one of the reasons for going Intel was that their department could order it directly.

Everything was done for speed of design, hence the very modular design using off the shelf parts. In many ways, this sealed the fate of cheaper clones but also the inevitable later success.

There's also the strong likelihood that IBM and Intel had various cross licensing agreements already, so no doubt they got good prices for the components that even at full price would have been cheaper than the Motorola equivalents...

[TFM]

For the 68000 (it probably would have been the 68008) design, they had no OS, no nothing. For 8088/8086 is was relatively easy to convert 8080 stuff. And this was done a whole lot.

[Gryzor]

This is utterly stupid. The Spectrum line didn't lose out to the PC; maybe the QL did, but it's safe to say the QL shot itself in the CPU rather than lost to something else.

Anyway, the Speccy (and CPC, and c64) lost out to the home 16-bitters. Did he mean to say that if the PC wasn't there he'd have made enough money to produce an Amiga and ST-beater? Yeah, sure...

[Bryce]

Unlikely, when he had money to spare he went and spent it developing this atrocity!

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/11/05/article-1326823-01FD44E10000044D-596_634x436.jpg

Bryce.

[Gryzor]

...of course.

What he meant, probably, was "if the PC wasn't there, and if I had the slightest business sense and stopped for a minute fucking around with grand projects that were stillborn I just *might* have had produced a machine that was significantly cheaper than the A500 or the 520ST, and more so, I would have been able to market it worldwide and now I'd have private strippers instead of having to have my photo taken at strip joints". Or something.

[Bryce]

"if the PC wasn't there, and if I had the slightest business sense and...

If, if, if... If my aunt had nuts, she'd be my uncle.

What a twat.

Bryce.