Author Topic: Ebay scum  (Read 5926 times)

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Offline ukmarkh

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Ebay scum
« on: 21:57, 30 April 10 »
As a long standing buyer and seller on ebay, i was shocked to recently find that several games I sold and posted, didn't make it to there proper destinations. The first game was sent to Italy, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 and sold for £27. Another game was a SEGA MEGA-CD of Robo Eleste that sold for around £15, and finally a selection of games that sold for around £21.

27+15+21=63

Sixty three pounds is how much I'm now out of pocket because I used ebay and paypal, the items presumed lost and the buyer automatically refunded. Me, the seller, without any money or items, and the Royal Mail will only refund me the postage costs as I can't provide proof as to how much these 2nd hand games are actually worth. 

I rang up Paypal and got put on hold for a few mins, finally someone answered. I told them that I had sold, posted, and could provide the receipt for postage, but this horrible fcuking robotic bitch kept reciting to me the rules and the fact that I needed a tracking number. In the end I hung up, what was the point in arguing with a machine. The point she was trying to make, over my shouting was that I was screwed without a tracking number.

I even tried putting up a disclaimer for any future sales, but lightening struck again, and more money poured out of my account. I called Paypal again, and they basically told me that any disclamer would not hold true, if the buyer pays with paypal. I'll still have to go through a refund process and end up losing out. I then said "well why do I need paypal then, if you guys aren't giving me any protection? She said" paypal will give you protection if you use tracking". I told her to suck my cock and threw the phone down.

So off I go to the post office, and ask for tracking to send an item to Italy. The chap at the post office quoted me around £4.50. I nearly fell over, "how much?" I lightly shouted. This was on top of the postage of £2.79, I quickly put the item back in my bag and left quietly, the guy had only paid 99p for the item, and moaned about the postage as it was.

The dilemma i'm in now is that any buyer can claim they never received the item and get a full refund. I'll end up even more out of pocket and Paypal won't lift a finger to back the seller, despite showing them proof of postage. As for the post office, Royal Mail whoever, there just out to screw us poor b@stards.

I'm here on my knees begging for help, surely there's another, cheaper and safer way for all parties? Half the people that bid on my auctions do so because my postage is fair.       

I have this nasty feeling that the guy that won Call of Duty 2 is sitting at home now, with both my game and my money.
« Last Edit: 22:01, 30 April 10 by ukmarkh »
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Offline nurgle

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Re: Ebay scum
« Reply #1 on: 01:50, 01 May 10 »
In germany it has been common ebay seller practise for years (even before PayPal) to use only insured shipping with tracking number  unless the buyer explicitly asks for sending uninsured. When sending uninsured and without tracking number the seller is always screwed if the buyer claims that the item never arrived. This is not ebay specific, although ebay and PayPal make it easier for the buyer to get the money back.
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Offline mr_lou

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Re: Ebay scum
« Reply #2 on: 22:09, 01 May 10 »
Same goes for Denmark. I only send insured with tracking number when I send packages. The reason though isn't because I fear the recipient will claim he never got it. It's more that I don't trust postal workers. (You can't trust anyone in this Gotham City world).
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Offline nurgle

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Re: Ebay scum
« Reply #3 on: 23:51, 01 May 10 »
I regularly buy very cheap items on ebay (like old vinyl singles for example). Most sellers of these items offer uninsured shipping at the senders risk as an option. For a 1 or 2 EUR item I always go for that option of course and the post never lost an item so far. However it's always optional. Sellers almost never offer uninsured shipping as default. Some won't even offer it at all. If they do offer that option and you take it you must agree that you do so at your own risk.
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Offline Cholo

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Re: Ebay scum
« Reply #4 on: 18:55, 02 May 10 »
Ive noticed that lately a lot of ebay sellers make a lot of exceptions when selling. Like the Hong Kong seller i bought from resently wrote: "Ships worldwide, except to Italy". I always wondered why, but i see it with other sellers too lately. Seems Italy is "bad region" in general (seen from at postal view).

Are you sure "tracking" is so expensive in the Uk? Ususally a small parcel is like £1-3 and £3-5 with tracking (usually just £1 more than normal). Most Countries have 2 kinds of "tracking":
1. normal cheap tracking (just a pack no. , so that you can follow the pack online).
2. Registered expensive tracking (where the person must sign when getting the delivery). This usually cost a lot more like £3-5 or more.

In Denmark all packs always automaticly have a pack no for tracking, but small parcels/letters you need to pay a little extra to get "a tracking no.". With both parcel/pack its at least £3 extra to get send "registered".

Anyways, ive seen a couple of sellers turn "uk-only" lately writing something like : " Dosnt ship outside uk anymore, due to unpleasant experiences". Annoying that a couple of morons spoil it for the rest of us who dont have our own e-bay.
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Offline redbox

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Re: Ebay scum
« Reply #5 on: 01:05, 03 May 10 »
Tracking is cheap in the UK, but only to other UK destinations.  When you're sending an item outside of the UK, it suddenly becomes very expensive.

I've heard a lot of people saying that a lot of items 'haven't arrived' recently when selling on eBay.  I think it's a sign of the recession and also people in general being wise to the fact that you can easily play the system, especially since eBay changed the feedback rules for buyer/seller meaning that you as a seller can't leave some feedback saying "it didn't arrive".  And PayPal just don't care about this sort of thing.

I think the best solution for ukmarkh would be to only sell to UK customers - it limits your audience a bit but then you can send it Recorded Signed For for 74p + postage and you have a tracking number and no more problems...
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Offline Gryzor

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Re: Ebay scum
« Reply #6 on: 10:16, 03 May 10 »
I'm sorry for the money you lost, mate, but the people you talked with are right on all accounts.

Consider this: if you don't have some proof of shipping the item to the specific sender who knows if you sent the item in the first place? A postage receipt is by no means a proof of anything, since it could come from the Xmas present you sent to your granny and not from Call of Duty X that you supposedly sent to Uzbekistan. The only way to prove that you actually sent something to the specific buyer is to have a tracking number. This is why Paypal makes it obligatory to use tracked shipping!

Also, putting up a disclaimer means, again, nothing. You cannot modify the terms of usage of eBay or Paypal just by writing something up. You are still bound to the rules you have 'signed' by using their services.

So, all you can do is use tracked postage methods I'm afraid… What you could do, maybe, if a buyer insists on cheaper postage, is ask them to leave positive feedback *before* sending the item. This way I guess it's much more difficult for them to open a complaint ticket...
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Offline ukmarkh

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Re: Ebay scum
« Reply #7 on: 00:49, 04 May 10 »
I've made an amendment to my terms and conditions... but as someone mentioned earlier, Italy and Canada are the places I've experienced money loss. 95% Italy, 5% Canada.
 
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230469052377&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT
 
Heavy on the Magic for the Amstrad CPC disk based computers. In full working order, and good condition. Postage is 96p for the UK, £1.92 Europe, and £3.54 for the rest of the world.

Terms and Conditions:

Postage within the UK includes an additional cost of 74p on top of existing postage for Recorded Delivery. This is not optional. Postage to Europe and rest of the world also includes an additional cost for online tracking, this cost is £4.90 plus the cost of postage. This is non negotiable and protects both buyer and seller as a recommended best practice outlined by Paypal.

The items I sell are used, sold AS-IS, no refunds or exchanges! Please bid accordingly! All items tested and working.

Payment methods; Postal orders, Nochex and PayPal accepted! 
« Last Edit: 00:50, 04 May 10 by ukmarkh »
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Offline Gryzor

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Re: Ebay scum
« Reply #8 on: 10:02, 04 May 10 »
Well, the disclaimer doesn't add a whole new lot to the rules, but it's certainly good to have it up there. It's a shame that high postage may/will drive some non-UK buyers away...

Btw, why not post ebay auctions here regularly? Not just you, in general...
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Offline ukmarkh

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Re: Ebay scum
« Reply #9 on: 10:16, 04 May 10 »
I think its a great idea... would love to pass on my duplicate games to real retro people within the community. How about a CPCWikiBay instead of us all using ebay???  :D
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Offline Gryzor

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Re: Ebay scum
« Reply #10 on: 10:18, 04 May 10 »
Nah - nobody would do that because you narrow down your potential group of buyers... I'd be more interested in announcing the auctions here.  What we *could* do is maybe offer a 5-10% to forum members or something like that. I think, for instance, that you could post here a virtual 'coupon' that the buyer could use at the checkout process...
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Offline ukmarkh

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Re: Ebay scum
« Reply #11 on: 10:38, 04 May 10 »
I'm up for that  ;)
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Offline arnoldemu

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Re: Ebay scum
« Reply #12 on: 11:36, 04 May 10 »
I'm up for that  ;)
is eBid.co.uk any good?
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My games. My Games
My website with coding examples: Unofficial Amstrad WWW Resource

Offline ukmarkh

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Re: Ebay scum
« Reply #13 on: 12:33, 04 May 10 »
I don't get on with it... sold and bought a few things, but hate the horrible spaghetti interface. 
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Offline ukmarkh

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Re: Ebay scum
« Reply #14 on: 16:16, 04 May 10 »
Today, and 41 days after I sent a Sony PSP with games to a buyer from Russia, I now find he claims he never received the item. This is the first I've heard from him in 41 days and now he raises a Paypal claim. Paypal have basically taken the funds from my account and I'm now another £72 out of pocket. I feel like the world is against me these past few weeks, and ebay doesn't care less about honest sellers. I'll never send anything without a tracking number again.

It seems crime pays... I bet this guy is sitting there now playing my PSP on the bog.

 
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Offline ukmarkh

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Re: Ebay scum
« Reply #15 on: 18:45, 04 May 10 »
This cheered me up... in a weird sort of way

http://www.screw-paypal.com/videos/video_ahab.html
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Offline Cholo

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Re: Ebay scum
« Reply #16 on: 02:14, 05 May 10 »
Just an idea: perhaps add something about auction price size. Like "All auction ending at £5 or more will only be send with registered mail". That way you can keep the small auctions interesting for international buyers and the expesive ones get insured.
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Offline ukmarkh

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Re: Ebay scum
« Reply #17 on: 09:24, 05 May 10 »
Just an idea: perhaps add something about auction price size. Like "All auction ending at £5 or more will only be send with registered mail". That way you can keep the small auctions interesting for international buyers and the expesive ones get insured.

I will take this under consideration, but its not just about the postage, if an item doesn't turn up a buyer then leaves me negative feedback. For one chap I bent over backwards and even sent him a replacement item, but he still wasn't happy and moaned about the time and him having to chase. I lose out in the end with the high insurance postage, especially outside the EU, but at least I'll have peace of mind that the item I sent will go with tracking and compensate both buyer and seller if lost. This last week I've had to fight my corner against negative feedback, ebay have now removed it and agree I'm not to blame. On top of everything I've consulted a solicitor and he asked me to send the below:

As there were extenuating circumstances which may have affected delivery   of packages (the volcanic ash grounding flights), I believe it was not   reasonable for you to remove funds from my account, and reimburse buyers   who may very well receive their parcels in due course.  As this is an   exceptional circumstance, I do not believe I have been treated fairly as   a consumer of your services under the Consumer Protection Act 1987.     I request that you reimburse the funds immediately and allow an   acceptable period for the parcels to be delivered.  Please respond   within 14 days, otherwise I will instruct my solicitor to begin   proceedings under the Consumer Protection Act, and Unfair Contract   Terms.     Yours sincerely
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Offline Gryzor

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Re: Ebay scum
« Reply #18 on: 10:44, 05 May 10 »
Hm, an interesting turn... to say the least. Let us know how it goes. As for your PSP, damn, but it's the same as with everything else.

These days I find myself on the buyer's end: I have a long eBay history with, I think, over 700 transactions and a perfect record. Now I bought those data cables to run my SD emulator with my CPC from that guy in the UK, and the cables have not arrived after weeks. To be frank I had forgotten about them because my board hasn't arrived yet, but in the end I contacted me and he said, sorry, you didn't ask for registered mail. This is true, but basically, under other circumstances I'd let it pass, but these cables were quite overpriced so maybe I'll be filing for a refund...
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Offline ukmarkh

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Re: Ebay scum
« Reply #19 on: 10:56, 05 May 10 »
Hm, an interesting turn... to say the least. Let us know how it goes. As for your PSP, damn, but it's the same as with everything else.

These days I find myself on the buyer's end: I have a long eBay history with, I think, over 700 transactions and a perfect record. Now I bought those data cables to run my SD emulator with my CPC from that guy in the UK, and the cables have not arrived after weeks. To be frank I had forgotten about them because my board hasn't arrived yet, but in the end I contacted me and he said, sorry, you didn't ask for registered mail. This is true, but basically, under other circumstances I'd let it pass, but these cables were quite overpriced so maybe I'll be filing for a refund...

And why shouldn't you... my argument is that both parties should be refunded. Under current Paypal terms and conditions he hasn't got a leg to stand on, Paypal will rule in your favour, for him its gonna be a long hard slog to get his money back. This is why things are about to change on ebay, prices are gonna start going up as there is simply no protection for the seller. Eventually if the trend continues ebay will slowly go down the pan. You see ebay have got the buyer protection bang on, but treat the sellers as if they are evil, unless you take out Tracking or recorded delivery on all items you sell.

I had an email from ebay this morning, after everything i've been put me through:

***Charge reasonable postage and   packaging***
 
  In today's online market, buyers expect to be charged either actual   postage costs or receive free postage.  To meet buyers' expectations,   you should:
 
  - Minimise the amount you charge for postage and packaging.
  - Include clear information in your listing about postage cost and   delivery method—don't change these terms on your buyers.
 
  Learn more about postage and packaging charges best practices:


Nothing about the cost of £4.90 for tracking in order to protect yourself. So if I sell an item for £5.00 and send it for free, this will cost me the postage for weight, plus the price of tracking... whats the point I'm giving stuff away.

I think an insurance service should be introduced, where both buyer and seller are covered. The more a person claims, the higher the premium, the less a person claims the lower. But newcomers would face a high premium, or have to pay added cost on the auction they won or sold in order to factor in the cost for a claim when needed. Something along the lines of how car insurance works.
« Last Edit: 11:11, 05 May 10 by ukmarkh »
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Zombie13

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Re: Ebay scum
« Reply #20 on: 23:16, 05 May 10 »
Would adding an "any buyer with less than 95% positive feedback require a postal tracking number" disclaimer be any help?

I've had a good experience on eBay myself - 600+ 100% feedback as a buyer and seller, but I've been very careful on who I buy off, and how I've posted the sold items. I use Royal Mail "signed for" for anything over £20, "special delivery" on anything over £50 - whether or not those were the quoted postage prices - of course, that's only in the UK.

It's an arse to have to limit yourself to UK only auctions, but - as eBay and PayPal see it, the seller is automatically responsible (which is wrong). Guilty until proven innocent, as usual.  >:(

My experience with eBid (as a buyer only) has been 100% rubbish by the way, but as a new member, that could just be bad luck.
« Last Edit: 23:24, 05 May 10 by Zombie13 »
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Offline redbox

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Re: Ebay scum
« Reply #21 on: 22:02, 09 May 10 »
On top of everything I've consulted a solicitor and he asked me to send the below: ... Consumer Protection Act 1987 ...

Good luck with this... PayPal is incorporated in Luxembourg.

You need a new solicitor  ;)
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