Forget about "next"... What about producing THE REAL MACHINE (CPC, GX4000)?

[cwpab]

We've talked a lot about how a potential CPC next would be.

Okay, fine, but... What about creating brand new Amstrad CPC and Amstrad GX4000 machines? Would it be possible?

I suspect some of the components would be hard to find or create, and some may be possible to "print" using modern magic.

One of the reasons why I ask this is the excessive current price of GX4000 consoles online, which is a shame with all the games and ports released lately.

(Of course, I assume all this would be semi-illegal, but hey... Maybe they could sell it with a special "re-manufactured from spare parts" code?)

[eto]

CPC: yes. All ICs are available. 
GX4000: not yet. The ASIC is not available and there is nothing which replicates its functionality.

Of course, I assume all this would be semi-illegal, but hey... Maybe they could sell it with a special "re-manufactured from spare parts" code?)

Pure refactoring of the GateArray or ASIC functionality should be okay. All the other parts of the CPC are standard ICs, so I would expect no problems there.

The software side is a bit more tricky: It was released to the public by Amstrad - but only for non-commercial projects.

[eto]

CPC: yes. All ICs are available. 

btw: Piotr is actively doing that (search for Just CPC)  and just right now on a German retro computing forum somebody shared a project status about a hybrid of Amstrad CPC and the East German KC compact, which he is working on. 

[McArti0]

ok.

[Prodatron]

just right now on a German retro computing forum somebody shared a project status about a hybrid of Amstrad CPC and the East German KC compact, which he is working on.

If someone is interested and can use a translator:

https://forum.classic-computing.de/forum/index.php?thread/29117-langzeitprojekt-cpc-bzw-kc-compact-als-kit-computer/&postID=466815

[Bryce]

We've talked a lot about how a potential CPC next would be.

Okay, fine, but... What about creating brand new Amstrad CPC and Amstrad GX4000 machines? Would it be possible?

I suspect some of the components would be hard to find or create, and some may be possible to "print" using modern magic.

One of the reasons why I ask this is the excessive current price of GX4000 consoles online, which is a shame with all the games and ports released lately.

(Of course, I assume all this would be semi-illegal, but hey... Maybe they could sell it with a special "re-manufactured from spare parts" code?)

But why? It would definitely cost more than a real CPC goes for on ebay, even with the silly asking prices these days.

Bryce.

[lmimmfn]

We've talked a lot about how a potential CPC next would be.

Okay, fine, but... What about creating brand new Amstrad CPC and Amstrad GX4000 machines? Would it be possible?

I suspect some of the components would be hard to find or create, and some may be possible to "print" using modern magic.

One of the reasons why I ask this is the excessive current price of GX4000 consoles online, which is a shame with all the games and ports released lately.

(Of course, I assume all this would be semi-illegal, but hey... Maybe they could sell it with a special "re-manufactured from spare parts" code?)

But why? It would definitely cost more than a real CPC goes for on ebay, even with the silly asking prices these days.

Bryce.

Exactly, existing solutions of Mister and 3D printed  console exist today. The cost of an ASIC is astronomical, if its not happening for Amiga FPGA solutions, its definitely not happening for the Amstrad, much as I would like it!!!

[XeNoMoRPH]

A colleague built this brand new Amstrad CPC, this is the result.

[andycadley]

I'm not sure it even makes sense. Putting aside the ASIC cost issue, a lot of cool CPC tricks were built around the CRT timing and tricks that probably don't work on modern displays. So unless you also built new CRT monitors it's never going to be entirely satisfying.

You'd be better off with a raspberry pi and sufficiently accurate emulation, which can handle all the display trickery and output it to a standard modern display.

[eto]

Btw: what keyboard options would we have for a brand new Amstrad? Especially keyboard layout and keycaps - I'd love to have a better/new keyboard but with the original layout.

[abalore]

From my point of view, the problem is there is nothing like a "standard" CPC.

There are important differences between the Amstrad models and even between different versions of the same model. For instance, the different CRTCs.

Also the expanded memory management is different in 464 and 6128, and the keyboard (PPI) behaves differently in CPC and Plus (many games need patches for keyboard working on Plus).

Lastly, the same computer behaves differently depending on the monitor it's connected to: some games or demos don't work on some LCD or even CRT screens. The different upscalers available add different input lags when connected to HDMI screens.

The power supply used may also affect the reliability of some expansions (ground noise, current delivery, etc).

So, in my opinion, the first step to take before any effort to design and build a modern real machine is to set a standard, keeping in mind that whatever you decide, not all preserved stuff (games, demos and hardware) will work on it, but at least will be a standard for future development.

[abalore]

Another thought: There is a really huge amount of cheap 14" CRT TVs available, maybe one model can be chosen and adapted to manufacture CTM compatible monitors, adding the 5V and 12V outputs and the RGB input in CPC connector type. I have several cheap 14" CRT TVs that work perfectly and in fact have a lot higher visual quality than the CTM.

[cwpab]

Honestly guys, I would just make some sort of working, modern GX4000 consoles that somehow can be sold at €100-€150 instead of €400. That should be cheaper as there is no monitor or keyboard, and I suspect the gamepad would be relatively simple compared to other parts (also, wasn't the connector compatible with Mega Drive controllers or something? If so, maybe improve on that accidental feature).

For the CPC, maybe just new disk drives and disks? They're much smaller and should be cheaper, but I understand the components may not be exacty cheap. In this case, the reason is the replacement of broken disk drives and the lack of new disks. 

[andycadley]

And the easiest way to do that is a Pi like device running an emulator. Maybe with some sort of slot for reading cartridges - might be complex with the limited GPIO pins, but it doesn't need to be real time, could just download the contents of a plugged in cart at startup or something?

And that way you could just plug it straight into any old TV (and have emulation options for DSK files/different CRTCs etc if desired).

[McArti0]

Clone mainboard with sockets and open documentation for ICs is good way for salvation from oblivion.

[abalore]

And the easiest way to do that is a Pi like device running an emulator. Maybe with some sort of slot for reading cartridges - might be complex with the limited GPIO pins, but it doesn't need to be real time, could just download the contents of a plugged in cart at startup or something?

And that way you could just plug it straight into any old TV (and have emulation options for DSK files/different CRTCs etc if desired).

I investigated this option long time. The only emulator I managed to sync with vertical refresh was MAME/MESS but the emulation was far from perfect in other aspects, with the other emulators I was not able to sync (for me it's a core feature to be synchronised with CRT refresh), but it was time ago, maybe now there are advances in that matter.

For me the best option is a MiSTer, Mistica or other FPGA emulation with proper cores, with direct RGB output (not HDMI) connected to a CRT TV via SCART and a gaming mouse and keyboard with 1000+ Hz USB report rate. And even in that case I notice a bit of input lag in the games I have more brain automatisation (like Boulder Dash). The measurement is very simple, you press the DEL key and immediately hear a bell like in the real model. That's incredibly hard to get in a software emulator since there is always an audio buffer, you can do the buffer small but never zero.

[McArti0]

with the other emulators I was not able to sync (for me it's a core feature to be synchronised with CRT refresh)

SugarBOX 0.29 - 0.3. speed base on Vsync

[abalore]

with the other emulators I was not able to sync (for me it's a core feature to be synchronised with CRT refresh)

SugarBOX 0.29 - 0.3. speed base on Vsync

I'll give it a try with the ArcadeVGA and switchres for a modeline of 720x288p@50

I'm confused about something there is SugarBOX 2.xx, is that newer? does it support the vsync feature or was removed?

[McArti0]

2.0 he was strangely slow. I don't understand him.

[abalore]

2.0 he was strangely slow. I don't understand him.

Do you know if sugarbox takes advantage of an ASIO compatible sound card to reduce audio latency? or any other emulator that does it?

[McArti0]

I have never checked it this much, but I would suspect those that have a 125kHz setting, e.g. EP128 emu

ps. on SugarBox 0.3 not work properly PinballDream.

[ZorrO]

I see that the problem is different expectations. Some people want it as similar as possible to 464 and CRT, others FPGA and PLUS, jet anothers Raspberry and HDMI. It is difficult to reconcile such different requirements in one project. In my opinion, if this dont't will be cheap, it won't be popular, and if we want cheap, it has to be Raspberry. By the way, only this option has enough power for a modern browser and player, and such a purchase is easier to justify than just sentiment, because it would be quite useful even as a modern computer.

I'll settle for memories and an emulator. I don't like keeping a lot of not usefull junk at home. But I like keyboards smaller about 20-50%. I wouldn't even mind this Christmas tree colors like in 464, but I hate those arrows at the top. I also dream of a new life in 3-inch slim drives 800K, and new floppy designed to have fewer parts, with a cover on top instead of inside. And you can take foils from 3.5, just cut it.

[McArti0]

ps. on SugarBox 0.3 not work properly PinballDream.

V 0.31 in About Window as 0.30b work correctly