A CPC for tomorrow?

[cpc4eva]

maybe im being nostalgic after watching Xyphoes latest video celebrating 30 years of cpc...

and so my mind wanders just how cool would it be to see a new cpc go into production?

you hear and see retro computers and gaming is as popular as ever b4

but then you think would it sell would it be a success and if so how would you make a cpc for tomorrow ?

it would be easily put out there with so many retro publications and it would be just like old times as well as that people would know about it and the use on social media would give it worldwide pentetration

the making part would essential be quite easy find an asian manufacturer to put all the bits and casings together

the hard part would be how and what would you make it into?

would you still have its core roots of an 8 bit with the same basic etc or would it be different?

how would you get games / software released and who would make the games etc

would you go with a monitor or keyboard or would it be just keyboard and hard drive ?

how many joystick ports?

what sound chip, graphics / hardware would you involve in it ?

does it have the original 64k / 128k ?

id love to see a new cpc in production but just how do others feel and what would they be wanting a cpc of tomorrow to look and feel and be like ??

[jbaudrand]

Just keep the original features, maybe a switch CPC/CPC+ so anyone could have the amstrad he want. and give it the ability to plug it to a cathodic tube or a lcd.
And don't forget to rebuild new 3" disk factory...

Sorry to be not so entusiast of recreate a CPC with other new feature (hard drive...), just look at Amiga projects (Natami...) vapor machine.

edit: a new machine must keep compatibility with new X MEM and other legacy one (multiface 2..)

[steve]

There was a succesful attempt to produce a C64 in a joystick C64 Direct-to-TV - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Regarding a CPC, I would want a CPC 6128 style keyboard with a CF or SD card instead of a disk drive, an ethernet port and a cassette input for loading tape software to transfer to CF/SD card, 4MB ram, PLUS features and a cartridge slot, some flashrom.
Optional, faster processor speed(s), more video ram, more sound channels, 2 or 4 processors, enhanced multiprocessor operating system, but at what point is it no longer an expanded CPC? 

[mr_lou]

I would much rather like to see a lot of new cartridge games for the existing CPC+ machines, than I'd like to see a new CPC.

[CraigsBar]

There was a succesful attempt to produce a C64 in a joystick C64 Direct-to-TV - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Regarding a CPC, I would want a CPC 6128 style keyboard with a CF or SD card instead of a disk drive, an ethernet port and a cassette input for loading tape software to transfer to CF/SD card, 4MB ram, PLUS features and a cartridge slot, some flashrom.
Optional, faster processor speed(s), more video ram, more sound channels, 2 or 4 processors, enhanced multiprocessor operating system, but at what point is it no longer an expanded CPC?

Well all the time it has a 100% compatible mode then it can still count, so base it around a CPU that is 100% z80 compatible, but include all the current addon cards as in built features... so...


Symbos compatible RTC, IDE/SD card, Mouse
Minibooster, PlayCity and at least 32 roms, 512kb ram expansion (or more)


USB interface with support for USB FLoppy drives reading PC format 1.44mb discs as well as 720k and AmsDOS/ParaDOS formats, Support for USB Thumbdrives as storage directly.


Locomotive basic is must for the CPC Compatible mode, even in an enhanced mode then some kind of Locomotive compiler could be provided. Internet access, ftp client and web browser would be helpful in an extended mode.


Failing that a RaspberryPi optimised emulator for the Plus that runs wthout all the weight of an X server etc.. so just turn on and it boots to an cpc6128 mode or enhanced mode (I seem to recall such an interface was available for the CPC Trex) would be nice, and save on the costs of developing hardware. although emulation is not *really* a new CPC since the Pi exists and is really cheap, and does all of the above, in a realisting way this might be a more realistic approach.


Craig

[CraigsBar]

I would much rather like to see a lot of new cartridge games for the existing CPC+ machines, than I'd like to see a new CPC.

Teeheehee, that works too

[steve]

The one thing wrong with the CPC is that it is too slow, the Z80 needs to run at a MINIMUM of 16 Mhz or execute the most frequently used instructions in 1 clock cycle.

[Sykobee (Briggsy)]

To be honest, the Raspberry Pi is the closest we have now to a modern CPC, and with RISCOS it can boot to BASIC, effectively.


But it isn't our CPC...


We can imagine new CPCs using 50MHz eZ80s and FPGAs for other functions, but ultimately it would end up costing more than something far more powerful, so there isn't really a market for it.


Amstrad missed the boat with the Plus sadly. If that has an 8MHz Z80 or an R800 even, and more memory, and maybe a 16 colour MODE 1 option as well as the other plus features ...

[steve]

We can imagine new CPCs using 50MHz eZ80s and FPGAs for other functions, but ultimately it would end up costing more than something far more powerful, so there isn't really a market for it.

It would have to be a single custom chip like the C64DTV.

[radu14m]

what about a z80 quad core expansion card ?
4 z80 cpus that will split the work
and a expansion card with a graphic chip 

all this pluged into the x4mother

[CraigsBar]

what about a z80 quad core expansion card ?
4 z80 cpus that will split the work
and a expansion card with a graphic chip 

all this pluged into the x4mother

Well if we are talking about extensions to existing CPC's in the MotherX4 board. then I'd be happy with one card that contains the following Symbos compatible items...


Real Time Clock, 2 MicroSD Card slots and a PS2 mouse interface.


that would make the MotherX4 and X-Mem and that card a perfect (and more modern - ie Available) symbiface2 replacement that does not require 12v power and rely on IDE - SD adaptors etc..


You would also have 2 slots free for the minibooster and PlayCity Everyone could mix and match the boards they wanted and the features they are likely to use, and even with all populated on 5v is much easier to power than 1x12 v and several x 5v.


Oh I am sure the CPC 464 users would need DDI-1 card in MotherX4 format as well, but then they woudl have to lose either the PlayCity or MiniBooster


Craig

[Vandalsk]

Maybe the OPC ONE is an option for a CPC for tomorow?!?! ( http://www.opcone.fr/opcone_accueil.php )
I think, it's a great idea .... but i don't like the keyboard 

[TotO]

The OPC ONE should be stillborn and always looked like a joke for me. (nothing changed on the website since 6 months)
The future of the CPC was simply the PC, as Amstrad wished. Sure it is not compatible, but it can be emulated for backward compatibility.

For peoples always using their computer, the best is to upgrade it or to wait for a serious solution like the CPC FPGA.
But, nothing look to move since months too...

So, better to think to the present!
What do you do on your CPC to keep it alive and going ahead?

[Vandalsk]

I think so too, it looks not like a real project. (But i like the idea of the OPC  .)

The best way to keep the CPC alive is to upgrate the machine with modern hardware and software, i think.

The CPC FPGA seems to be a great project. I've never heard before of CPC FPGA.

What do i do to keep the CPC alive.....hmm...nothing  . I am only a every day user of the CPC and try to keep it alive.

[Optimus]

While I am all fine with current CPC, there are few little details I think, like it would be cool if we had that. Not some extraordinary things, because everyone can shout "I want ARM 2GHz, 64GB of ram, a HD, DVD, 64bit color, etc" as much their imagination, but subtle things that maybe could or could not fit.


Of course, most of the stuff the CPC was missing came late on the plus (great hardware sprites, pixel perfect scrolling, line interrupts, etc)


One more thing, if they could have some more modes. Specifically 160*100*8bpp, so still 16k but blocky 256 colors, and one byte one pixel, so no need to OR left/right pixels for pixel effects, most preferable on the plus palette, else the byte is wasted for just 27 colors on the regular CPC. Was it feasable to add such mode? I know lines are always 200 (or more in overscan) and the different modes just change pixel width. Alternatively they could have 80*200, but that would be too wide, and you can already emulate it by writting byte in mode 0 (but no 256 colors, just 16). That mode would be perfect for pixel based effects, texture mapping, wolfenstein. And maybe with an 8mhz Z80, we could have more power for a simple 3d mapped game on CPC.


Or they could just add additional 8k modes, same res, less colors, but faster to move background. Then maybe those Spectrum ports would be a bit faster (some of them are mostly two colors in mode 1 anyway). Was that feasable with the hardware at the time? I read now about AtariXL coding, and they have TONS of modes, blocky, highres, different size of vram, all sort of stuff depending on what you prefer.


I can't think of something else. I am all fine with the sound even if many people hate it. I am fine with the keyboard, basic, design of machine, I think 4mhz z80 is not that slow still (the 6502 might be 2 cycles per instruction, but 1mhz usually) and I think the plus was improved on the aspects needed, it just came too late.

[Sykobee (Briggsy)]

One more thing, if they could have some more modes. Specifically 160*100*8bpp, so still 16k but blocky 256 colors, and one byte one pixel,

That would require the CPC to read 256 (160 actual) bytes per line rather than 128 (80). Obviously because each pixel is two lines high we could read the data in over two rows, but that would require a significant buffer to store the data until it's displayed.


80 fat pixels would be doable of course ... the value of that is limited.


I think for the plus they could have used an 8MHz Z80, and upped the bus/memory speed to adapt to that, and then done the double data read speed fora 16 colour MODE 1...


...or maybe implemented a buffer for some form of per-character attribute system read in the border (there's a spare 48 bytes worth of data to be read in standard modes, you can imagine a palette selector attribute to switch between 4 or 16 different 4 colour palettes in MODE 1 applicable on an 8x1 or 8x8 grid).


Or having a dedicated memory for a selectable bank of sprites rather than the fixed 16 sprite definitions within the ASIC. A 16KB RAM could have held 128 Plus sprite definitions, even if only 16 could be shown on each line.

Or they could just add additional 8k modes, same res, less colours, but faster to move background. Then maybe those Spectrum ports would be a bit faster (some of them are mostly two colors in mode 1 anyway). Was that feasable with the hardware at the time?

It should have been possible, but it might have required a larger ULA in the original CPC to support extra modes and slowing the data read speed of the CRTC to 64 bytes a line, or again using a buffer in the ULA and setting the CRTC to 20 chars width for MODE 1, and the ULA interpreting that data at the correct rate for low colour support. Basically, the ULA would probably have had to become an ASIC and Amstrad couldn't afford the time in '83/84.

I read now about AtariXL coding, and they have TONS of modes, blocky, highres, different size of vram, all sort of stuff depending on what you prefer.

The 8-bit Atari graphics chips were very flexible as they were custom designed, and effectively used a display list in memory to decide what that line is going to look like and where it is in memory.

[TotO]

The PLUS range was an emergency exit for Amstrad and not a good example of CPC future.

Very popular in Europe, Amstrad hoped to be the Sega Megadrive distributor, but Virgin was chosen.
Because that, Sega had allowed Amstrad to release a Mega PC to not cry too much...

I'm pretty sure that originals Amstrad plans was to release a 16bit range with:
- White Megadrive console branded Amstrad in Europe
- PLUS 16bit computer based on the MD 68000 + Z80 + custom chips

That had been an easy way to kick ass Atari and Commodore with amazing games and keep the CPC compatibility.
Finally, we got a bugged system with a last minute R&D to make a Canada Dry[nb]16bit look, 16bit feel, but not 16bit...[/nb] computer.

[TFM]

Yes, but it has a Z80 and not 68000. And that makes me lucky. 

[ZbyniuR]

I too dream of someone figured how to effectively and affordably accelerate the CPC, or how to make a ramdisk acted as graphics memory. To Covox sounded heavenly even on 7bit, and even by some magician conjured up the FPGA to inserted into the CPC turned him into a CPC Plus. But ...

For several years I have been following attempts to revive the Amiga, and although the effort of several people is admirable, the overall effect is miserable. The forums endless discussions and arguments about what should be in itself, and each has a different opinion on this subject. And reading this thread I have the same feelings. Better falls manufacture and seller of new devices to the old Amigas.
I think the CPC in FPGA already exists, C-ONE and the T-Rex. And how it sells? To do next? Why? To connect to the keyboard from the PC? Do not have an emulator?
CPC is for those who have a fondness for them, not for those who want a modern computer.
The future for CPC? In my opinion, I would have to extend, but it must be:
1 So cheap to have a chance to spread. (£ 20 seems to me to be real)
2 So easy to connect to anyone who does not want to, or do not know how to solder and make holes in the casing could have a connect.
3 So useful to those who kept their CPC in the closet for years, they wanted to take them out again to try it out.

In my opinion, to meet these conditions is needed fast and capacious carrier and mouse. This is the difference between the 16-bit computers from these 8-bit. These two things will be useful to everyone. And that is enough because the more will in itself it did it would be more expensive and the less people will buy it. Talking fast I mean such as a hard disk of at least 120KB / s, but cheap so no IDE. Hard drives require a lot of electricity, the CF are already outdated. Better would be a SD reader. For this 16KB ROM with several RSX to navigate the directories and set their fragments (if the file list is too long) or DSK file as the current disk.
It should also after reset (if you do not hold SPACE) run the file Starter. That may be in Basic. You could announce a competition for the best starter.
Everyone in the place it what it needs. New fonts, alternative keyboard map, kopier, text editor, menu with a choice of games, demos, music, and maybe even movies (converted from PC to CPC). After all, with such a fast and capacious carrier does not need - 512KB to release a short video because now they can have a lot of hours. There is a place for everything.

The second thing that will brighten life is a mouse. PS / 2 are already outdated. USB mouse costs £ 2. And without a graphical programs, some games and even SymbOS and FutureOS seem clumsy and awkward. Each holder of a CPC should have it. You can write a starter, which supports a mouse, and without touching the keyboard lets you select programs. Imagine the impression that it did with the holders of the Commodore or Spectrum. Who click on the menu buttons, and we use rollers that act as arrows up and down. What would be useful also in text editors. In the future you will be able to create programs to support other devices via USB, because everyone will already have it.

Just like any Commodore has a cartridge with a turbo and each Spectrum Kempston and AY. So everyone needs to Amstrad - SD reader and mouse. To change it in a useful and convenient computer.

(Translated into English by Google).

[TotO]

I'm not sure that was a luck to got a PLUS in 90's. 

[TFM]

Sadly the gave up the ANT2 project. That would have been a power CPC.