Is It Retro Enough? Opinions Please

[simondo]

Really like the idea of DDI-3 or HXC for my CPC464, but does it spoil the retro experience?


Do users prefer to experience the clickety clack of the 3" disk drive, the pushing of the MFII buttons to poke games, the sprawling mess that all these connected along with a 64K ROM expansion provide?
Or
Do users prefer getting games/applications running quickly & efficiently using HXCs, DDI-3s, XMEM etc and still consider it a retro experience.


I personally prefer the full retro experience but I do appreciate all the new kit that is now available, particularly in the absence of the original hardware. My only concession is a converted PSX pad.

I have a CPC464, CTM664, DDI-1, Multiface II, DK Tronics 64k, 6128 ROM, all of which have been with me since the 80s/90s. Since joining forum I have fitted PARADOS to DDI-1 interface and added 3.5 Floppy as drive B, which I consider to be retro since this was the only option for a DDI-1 or drive B at the time after DDI-1 was discontinued.


Anyway, just thought it may be a talking point for some of us.

[||C|-|E||]

I really like to use the new hardware, for sure  . For me is more than retro enough and, best of all, very convenient. I keep all my original collection and buy tape and disk games from time to time, but for everyday use the HxC and the C4CPC are awesome (and the rest of the boards  ). Moreover, in many cases we are talking about homemade hardware created by the members of the forum. It is really great to work with something that another Amstrad fan assembled and designed himself!

[reidrac]

For me the M4 board is amazing if you only have a 464. I may still load a cassette if I buy a game for my collection, but the DSK support of the M4 with instant load is brilliant.

To be honest, I don't consider if it is "retro enough". Most of the time I use the CPC is with an LCD screen instead of the CRT, and for me is close enough.

[CraigsBar]

Does the multiface 2 work with the m4? Image the tape to disc potential if that all works together.

[EgoTrip]

The core of a CPC setup always will be retro. Regardless of any new kit developed for it, its still retro. It's always had new equipment to get the best out of the machine, back in the day and in the present. I'm sure there will be future peripherals too. Just because they make use of new technology does not mean the CPC is any less retro. Even in the 90's technology progressed and retro systems took advantage of it (such as that Codemasters CD for example).

But its ultimately up to the individual what they want to do with their time and money, its their hobby.

[Bryce]

As a hardware person, most people will expect me to say yes, new hardware is great. However, 99% of the time I use my CPCs with no additional hardware at all. I use a HxC for convenience and because I don't own all those games on disks/tapes, but I still consider this to be retro. For me, the border starts when the expansion is more powerful than the CPC or if the Z80 is no longer the central processor in the system. As long as the expansions are still slaves to the CPC, then it's all fine in my books.
Also (and this is just me), I prefer to try to make my expansions with as much "retro parts" as possible, ie: chips that existed back then and using methods / layout styles of the time too. However this is not always practicle or possible, especially when the expansion is offering something like USB / W-LAN or other complex ports that weren't around back then.

Bryce.

[sigh]

For me, the border starts when the expansion is more powerful than the CPC or if the Z80 is no longer the central processor in the system.
Bryce.

I agree with this to an extent, unless it's memory expansions, because we already had those from Datel back in the day.

[roudoudou]

Do what you want simondo,there is not only one way to live retrocomputing

[Phantomz]

I guess people's views will be different, but it doesn't really matter at the end of the day. 

Using modern hardware like the C4CPC, HxC or M4 CPC WiFi to load games doesn't make it less retro for me, I think it makes sense to load games quicker if the option is there, however I do miss the tape loading sounds for some strange reason.   
Maybe I could play some loading sounds in the background. 

[Duke]

Using modern hardware like the C4CPC, HxC or M4 CPC WiFi to load games doesn't make it less retro for me, I think it makes sense to load games quicker if the option is there, however I do miss the tape loading sounds for some strange reason.   

Yes, the tape sound was nice   - But the sound of a disc read fail, still makes me feel really bad.

[HAL6128]

The core is still Z80, AY-Sound and the mighty CRTC/Gate Array bundle. That's what count.

[TFM]

I guess people's views will be different, but it doesn't really matter at the end of the day. 

Using modern hardware like the C4CPC, HxC or M4 CPC WiFi to load games doesn't make it less retro for me, I think it makes sense to load games quicker if the option is there, however I do miss the tape loading sounds for some strange reason.   
Maybe I could play some loading sounds in the background. 

Totally agreed!!! 

[Bryce]

I agree with this to an extent, unless it's memory expansions, because we already had those from Datel back in the day.

Memory expansions are within my definition. They expand the system, they don't "take control" over the Z80 and the CPC is still the master.

Bryce.

[Shaun M. Neary]

Do users prefer to experience the clickety clack of the 3" disk drive, the pushing of the MFII buttons to poke games, the sprawling mess that all these connected along with a 64K ROM expansion provide?
Or
Do users prefer getting games/applications running quickly & efficiently using HXCs, DDI-3s, XMEM etc and still consider it a retro experience.

This really depends on what you want in terms of retro gaming really. Personally, I'm not into hunting down and restoring old relic hardware while paying through the nose for it (and that's what's currently happening unfortunately, unless you're lucky to get a system for a good price), for playing the games that play exactly the same way on an emulator (most of the time anyway!)


Nebulus on a raspberry pi will play exactly the same as Nebulus on a CPC.


It's each to their own, and there's no right way, wrong way or "retro enough" way to enjoy it really. I went the pi route because it's convenient, it emulates multiple machines in one small box, supports keyboard input if I need it, and if it breaks, all I have to do is buy a replacement and swap the card.


Do I miss the old hardware? No, not at all. It's bulky, it's AINCENT which means that any part could go at a minutes notice and God knows how much the repair costs would be in terms of sourcing the replacement parts alone. Certainly don't miss all that. On the flip side, I've all the admiration in the world who can preserve the dinosaurs, but for me personally, I don't have the patience for it.


Same games, enjoyed differently by many. It's all good as far as I'm concerned. 

[||C|-|E||]

This really depends on what you want in terms of retro gaming really. Personally, I'm not into hunting down and restoring old relic hardware while paying through the nose for it (and that's what's currently happening unfortunately, unless you're lucky to get a system for a good price), for playing the games that play exactly the same way on an emulator (most of the time anyway!)


Nebulus on a raspberry pi will play exactly the same as Nebulus on a CPC.


It's each to their own, and there's no right way, wrong way or "retro enough" way to enjoy it really. I went the pi route because it's convenient, it emulates multiple machines in one small box, supports keyboard input if I need it, and if it breaks, all I have to do is buy a replacement and swap the card.


Do I miss the old hardware? No, not at all. It's bulky, it's AINCENT which means that any part could go at a minutes notice and God knows how much the repair costs would be in terms of sourcing the replacement parts alone. Certainly don't miss all that. On the flip side, I've all the admiration in the world who can preserve the dinosaurs, but for me personally, I don't have the patience for it.


Same games, enjoyed differently by many. It's all good as far as I'm concerned. 

I guess that it all depends on how much you enjoy the hardware itself  I really love to repair and use old tech, so I do not consider this a problem but a bonus. However, if you just want to enjoy the games, I completely agree with you, a Pi is a good way to go.

[Shaun M. Neary]

I guess that it all depends on how much you enjoy the hardware itself  I really love to repair and use old tech, so I do not consider this a problem but a bonus. However, if you just want to enjoy the games, I completely agree with you, a Pi is a good way to go.

Exactly. I'm definitely in the minority of this group. I just love playing the games. I'm not a programmer, I don't write games, I'm not into board revisions and drive belts etc. Most of the topics I post in are about the actual games themselves. Just my personal preference. 

[Phantomz]

This really depends on what you want in terms of retro gaming really. Personally, I'm not into hunting down and restoring old relic hardware while paying through the nose for it (and that's what's currently happening unfortunately, unless you're lucky to get a system for a good price), for playing the games that play exactly the same way on an emulator (most of the time anyway!)

It's each to their own, and there's no right way, wrong way or "retro enough" way to enjoy it really. I went the pi route because it's convenient, it emulates multiple machines in one small box, supports keyboard input if I need it, and if it breaks, all I have to do is buy a replacement and swap the card.

Nebulus on a raspberry pi will play exactly the same as Nebulus on a CPC.

I understand where you're coming from, if you're happy to use an emulator or emulated system and it gets the job done for you then why not. 

I can't repair computers, I have no idea what revision my cpc's are, so not a hardware guy in the terms of repairing and tinkering.

I do however prefer to use real hardware over emulation, I do use emulation too though, winape debugger gets used a lot for the GX4000 cart remapping and MESS to test the cpr's. 

I might even get myself a raspberry pi to hide behind the tv in the living room. 

I agree that the prices are going up, but I think you could still pick up an Amstrad computer for the price of a couple of takeaways so not to bad 

It might be a little more expensive than in the 90's say when you could probably pick up and Amstrad computer for £10 from a car boot sale.

Do I miss the old hardware? No, not at all. It's bulky, it's AINCENT which means that any part could go at a minutes notice and God knows how much the repair costs would be in terms of sourcing the replacement parts alone. Certainly don't miss all that. On the flip side, I've all the admiration in the world who can preserve the dinosaurs, but for me personally, I don't have the patience for it.

Same games, enjoyed differently by many. It's all good as far as I'm concerned. 

Like I said, I prefer the real machines, so have a few systems, like Amstrads, Amiga's, Megadrives etc, I only get machines that I like and have owned in the past, I don't collect every system out there so not a hoarder. 

I can't have all the system set up at once, as they are bulky compared to a raspberry pi, but they easily fit in a cupboard when not in use, I just get them out when I'm in the mood to use them,
I agree it would be easier just to fire up an emulator but like I said it's not the same to me.

I know that these systems are old and could brake down at a minutes notice, but then again anything can, even with a new purchase you're only covered for 12 month's unless take out extra insurance.
I try and get my retro systems at a good price that I feel fair, I hope that it doesn't brake down and that I get plenty of use out of it, but I don't worry too much if I haven't paid stupid prices. 

[||C|-|E||]

Actually, about the breaking thing, there are pieces of hardware that are really sturdy and our Amstrad are a good example (OK, the Plus is a bit more delicate, but still). You should be pretty confident about them if they are treated with care. On the other hand, and even in the worst case, it should be possible to repair them in almost all the cases (again, the Plus is the exception here, but only regarding the ASIC, the rest is pretty standard and relatively easy to fix).

[dcdrac]

I tend to fire up the CPCs I have to test things I buy for them but day to day stick to Winape to play games

[Duke]

For me, emulators are great for testing code and debugging, but the real hardware gives a whole other feeling and experince, that's definately worth it imo.
Besides the Amstrad CPC's are really solid and durable machines and don't break down easily (I got my first CPC664 here with only a membrane changed in the early 90's and a drive belt, that was bought second hand in 1987-1988 iirc).

[MacDeath]

Really like the idea of DDI-3 or HXC for my CPC464, but does it spoil the retro experience?

basically it is the same sort of upgrade as having a CPC6128... guess what, my CPC6128 didn't spoiled the experience for me.


those are not extra layers of graphic cards or sound cards (well, perhaps a pair of additionnal AY may not hurt).

to add extra RAM and better mass data storage/reader doesn't really modify the main hardware, it just offers it its true potential.

Who did stuck to IBM 8086 4mhz with 128k RAM and tape drive PC specification ? (sort of)


My first Dos PC was so much better when it could get those extra 128k (from 512 to 640) AND HDD (80megs) and Mouse... was still the same EGA 12mhz config but well... could then play Might and magic 3.


Most 8bit computers were plagued by insufficient RAM and sluggish Mass Data storage (yeah, tapes...) which would waste their true potential.
Proper "Computer" games are not supposed to be 1-screen console arcade stuffs but freaking deep strategy or RPG stuffs.

To see a CPC running with extra 512K of RAM, IDE 128meg flashdrive and etra ROMs (X-Mass and X-MEM cards) and Floppy equivalent (HxC or actual floppies) was so amazing...
had the feeling to see a CGA PC running WinXp, except it was SymbOS and the "humble" CPC, that could actually run proper versions of games like monkey island, indiana jones 3 (scumm version) or Might and magic 3-4-5, provided someone would code them..

16bit micros weren't having great games because they had 8mhz CPU, but because they were fit with 512k or 1024k or RAM...
Rick dangerous or Barbarian are gameplay-wise as good on CPC as on ST or Amiga actually... but hey, no intro ? less screens or levels, cannot have the different backgrounds in the same row ? no various musics ?
Thx 64k 25 minutes long monoloading...

So yeah, the real Retro experience comes from the Z80+CRTC+GA+AY+I/O... and the 3 video modes, the nice looking keyboard, the CRT monitor in 4/3 with those nice non-square pixels (not even angular) as well.

not from the tape loading noise during 30 minutes before the load error fail...

[Prodatron]

@MacDeath, +1000!

[chinnyhill10]

Emulators never ever look or sound the same. Which it why I use the real hardware on the Youtube channel and why I've done an entire calendar dedicated to imagery captured from real 8 bits.

[Phantomz]

So yeah, the real Retro experience comes from the Z80+CRTC+GA+AY+I/O... and the 3 video modes, the nice looking keyboard, the CRT monitor in 4/3 with those nice non-square pixels (not even angular) as well.

not from the tape loading noise during 30 minutes before the load error fail...

Like I said, I miss the tape loading noise for some odd reason, so for me that is part of the retro experience which I miss, it just goes to show you everyones opinions will be different.

I must have been very lucky when I had my CPC 464 in the 80's or just had a well built machine as never had any errors loading games, all my software was original and all my school friends had spectrums and c64's so didn't lend any games out, maybe that helped. 

[||C|-|E||]

The CPC 464 is a rock  I still need to see one failing to read tapes. There are a few faulty units here and there, but they are usually extremely sturdy