Someone doesn't like the CPC...

andycadley · 18:31, 25 February 23

Quote from: Bryce on 12:23, 25 February 23.
- "Given that the 4mhz Z80 suffers about 15-20% 'bad lines'" What does that even mean?
-
Bryce.

"Bad lines" are a C64 concept, every 8 lines it has to read what characters make up that row as well as having to read what bytes are to be displayed as part of those characters. That requires more bandwidth than is normally available to the video chip (the bus alternates between CPU and VIC access due to the way 6502 is designed).

To accomplish this therefore, the CPU gets stalled on certain lines so that the VIC can make usage of some of the bus cycles to read the characters and therefore code on those lines runs slower - hence "bad lines"

This doesn't apply to the CPC (or indeed any other 8-bit computer) but trying to explain that to some C64 folk is often harder than you'd imagine.

mahlemiut · 22:19, 25 February 23

Quote from: Carnivius on 11:28, 25 February 23"Then again to be honest if you were still playing 8bit games in 1989 I feel very sorry for you when the real action was on NEC, Sega, Amiga or even ST (that cost no more than the 128k CPC in reality from 1987 and onward). "
My family wasn't like super poor (we were quite early with Satellite TV at least) but I still didn't get an Amiga until 1993 (the A1200). And NEC? Who used NEC computers for gaming? Did he actually mean NES? Which is 8-bit. As was the only Sega available at the time (the Mega Drive wasn't released in PAL regions until September 1990). I'm kinda surprised he didn't slip the word 'peasant' in there somewhere. "I feel sorry for you peasants.. stuck on 8-bit machines in 1989..."

By NEC, he's probably referring to the NEC Turbografx 16/PC Engine. Still 8-bit, though.

Carnivius · 22:22, 25 February 23

Quote from: mahlemiut on 22:19, 25 February 23
Quote from: Carnivius on 11:28, 25 February 23"Then again to be honest if you were still playing 8bit games in 1989 I feel very sorry for you when the real action was on NEC, Sega, Amiga or even ST (that cost no more than the 128k CPC in reality from 1987 and onward). "
My family wasn't like super poor (we were quite early with Satellite TV at least) but I still didn't get an Amiga until 1993 (the A1200). And NEC? Who used NEC computers for gaming? Did he actually mean NES? Which is 8-bit. As was the only Sega available at the time (the Mega Drive wasn't released in PAL regions until September 1990). I'm kinda surprised he didn't slip the word 'peasant' in there somewhere. "I feel sorry for you peasants.. stuck on 8-bit machines in 1989..."
By NEC, he's probably referring to the NEC Turbografx 16/PC Engine. Still 8-bit, though.

I did think of that but that machine didn't officially get released in the UK. The PAL version was cancelled due to poor sales of the US version.

VincentGR · 23:26, 25 February 23

I bought many 8bits after 2000s.
Spent time to learn the hardware and software, at least till my brain goes.
SID rocks, VIC scrolls, but if I had a chance to go back to the 80s, I would pick Amstrad again.

tjohnson · 23:28, 25 February 23

Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 18:21, 25 February 23Huh, at least we know whatever happened to Bug Powell

RIP Bug Powell (21-22), gone but not forgotten

Shaun M. Neary · 00:04, 26 February 23

Quote from: tjohnson on 23:28, 25 February 23
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 18:21, 25 February 23Huh, at least we know whatever happened to Bug Powell
RIP Bug Powell (21-22), gone but not forgotten

Sorry, who's Bug Powell?

Anthony Flack · 00:58, 26 February 23

Somebody who turned up on the CPCwiki board, demanded that people help him with the amazing projects he was totally going to do, and then immediately threw a sook when nobody rushed to offer their services.

Anthony Flack · 05:28, 26 February 23

Back to the original topic, uh-oh, looks like we've been busted! Reported to the fun police for enjoying the wrong computer. That's a serious list of charges.

The truth of it is that all the 8 bits are all more than capable of hosting somebody's masterpiece. They are all beautiful. The C64 for its SID and VIC chips, quirky palette and similarity to arcade and console hardware. The CPC as an all-rounder, and 80 column text on an RGB monitor made it by far the nicest to learn to program. The Spectrum for being so compact and cheap. The Atari 8 bits for going a completely different way. All of them have been enjoyed now for going on four decades and all are still getting many excellent new releases every year.

Oh, and it looks like Bruce Abbott on the Amiga board lives 20 minutes away from me, how about that. Well it used to be 20 minutes away. Both our towns got hit with a massive cyclone last week and it's smashed all the roads and bridges to bits.

I have to admit I play the 8 bits a lot more than the Amiga these days.

Anthony Flack · 05:41, 26 February 23

Oh and I realised you were making a joke when you asked who he was. Persona non grata eh

Anthony Flack · 05:55, 26 February 23

One more thing - complaining that the computer turns off when the monitor turns off is weird. I mean if you really wanted to, you could attach a separate power supply, right? But to expect the CPC monitor to supply pass-through voltage even when it's turned off is just not how CRTs are typically built. The power button on a CRT is always a big chunky thing that cuts power at the mains input, so yes, when the monitor is off it is off.

Gryzor · 06:20, 26 February 23

Yeah I guess he means it should have a big, fat separate power brick to lug around...

Rabs · 07:21, 26 February 23

I own a ZX81, ZX spectrum, Oric 1, C64 and lots of CPCs. I like them all for what they are. But if you cut me down the middle you read CPC. I guess it is just how you are made.

Sykobee (Briggsy) · 00:42, 27 February 23

And regarding the cost, the monitor was a godsend in the UK, where many houses still only had the main living room TV as the only TV in the house (if there were two, the second was in the parents' bedroom or old enough that you had to suffer the analogue RF output from the computer).

We were using our CPCs, but our mates weren't using their Spectrums and C64s because Dad was watching the footie or their sister was watching Neighbours.

I note he didn't mention the speed of the C64 disk drive.

Anthony Flack · 07:11, 27 February 23

The monitor was a godsend to ME as well; we only had one TV in the house. That's probably the whole reason my parents decided to get a CPC. The cost of a C64 disk drive was through the roof as well, wasn't it?

But on the other hand, the cost of actual DISCS for the CPC...

eto · 09:53, 27 February 23

Quote from: Anthony Flack on 07:11, 27 February 23The monitor was a godsend to ME as well; we only had one TV in the house. That's probably the whole reason my parents decided to get a CPC. The cost of a C64 disk drive was through the roof as well, wasn't it?

But on the other hand, the cost of actual DISCS for the CPC...

Exactly! That was a genius move by AMS to make a cheap enough computer so parents could afford one incl. a monitor. And with the 6128 they managed to make it look like a professional computer. When I look back at who had a 6128, it usually was families where the dad was an engineer. Or in my case, where the neighbor was an engineer and referred it to my parents instead of the C64. (fun fact: they told me "and if you he have problems, he can help you" - yeah... a year later I helped him).

The 3" disks were pretty expensive indeed, however, if you didn't swap games, a single disk lasted very, very long. I guess without swapping games I wouldn't have used more than 10 over the lifetime of my CPC. And even if you swapped games, you could get between 5 and 10 games on a single disk.

Anthony Flack · 10:11, 27 February 23

Oh, I filled up many disks with my own programs and pictures.

Shaun M. Neary · 13:27, 27 February 23

Quote from: Anthony Flack on 00:58, 26 February 23Somebody who turned up on the CPCwiki board, demanded that people help him with the amazing projects he was totally going to do, and then immediately threw a sook when nobody rushed to offer their services.

I think you missed the joke that stemmed from the previous comment, sir.

Anthony Flack · 13:29, 27 February 23

Quote from: Anthony Flack on 05:41, 26 February 23Oh and I realised you were making a joke when you asked who he was. Persona non grata eh

I did initially but then I clicked, I should pay closer attention to who is commenting.

He really is a type who seems to turn up over and over on game development boards.

Shaun M. Neary · 13:29, 27 February 23

Quote from: Anthony Flack on 05:41, 26 February 23Oh and I realised you were making a joke when you asked who he was. Persona non grata eh

Only by his own doing...

But damn, was he an amusing source of entertainment for a couple of weeks?

Anthony Flack · 05:16, 28 February 23

I was going to add that all the 8 bit computers have infinite scope for artistic expression, and look, google calculator confirms it:

martin464 · 10:43, 28 February 23

His rant is just what happens when you have no custom chips and try to write 16k of garbage!

Apart from anything else the CPC is the perfect machine to push the 8 bit architecture to the limits, because it can switch in whole 64k banks and execute code in them, unlike some other well known machines that are pretty much stuck in the base 64k. You can do anything with extra ram, multi-tasking o/s and things 8 bits are not supposed to be capable of become possible. To me this is the no 1 geek advantage. I don't think the CPC has been pushed all that hard yet, we've only seen like 25% of it's potential

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Someone doesn't like the CPC...