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General Category => General Discussion - Introductions => Topic started by: Gryzor on 14:42, 08 July 20

Title: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: Gryzor on 14:42, 08 July 20

Based on a discussion I had with a fellow user the other day I wanted to write down my thoughts on the state of the CPC scene in particular, but also the retro scene in general in some aspects.


It's been known for years that the CPC scene, even though relatively small compared to those of the other heavyweights of the Retro pantheon (c64, speccy, Amiga etc) is quite fragmented; basically, in geographical and language terms. We used to have CPCZone and, perhaps, a French forum or something? Even that provided some fragmentation because French users would gravitate around and towards their own site(s). Then the Spaniards broke off and formed their own sub-scene in their own language.


Of course one could argue that users who would not be active otherwise came to the scene precisely because of those French- or Spanish-language communities, but the fragmentation is very real and, for me, problematic. And nowadays we have a *number* of French or Spanish local scenes.


It's a shame, but it's gotten really ridiculous if you take into account other media. I just checked which groups I am a member of in Facebook (which I don't even use):


Amstradiens
Amstrad CPC 464
Amsoft Fans
Amstrad GX4000/PLUS users
Asociacion Amstrad Eterno
Amstrad 4ever
Amstrad Collective
The story of the Amstrad CPC in pixels
Amstrad For Everyone
Amstrad For Sale


Why am I a member there? Damned if I know - I was invited to some, wanted to check out something specific in others, stuff like that, but I rarely visit because -as I said- I don't use Facebook. And every day I get serial email notifications because people will pass through each posting the exact same things.


...and of course, there are MORE in every language. And then you have Discord, and almost EVERYONE who has a YouTube channel thinks they've GOT to have their own, because obviously IRC is not enough? Granted, a chat service is different from a forum-like community and has its own use, but having different servers with multiple channels? How one can even manage to follow all that? I use Slack for work, with three or four servers and their corresponding channels and I'm just swamped.


I mean, by this point the scene is a total mess. Everyone wants to be the admin/owner of their own little group/community/whatever. And content is flying left and right and you have to have your antennas on at all times, or else put your hopes in people who follow those communities but will cross-post in others (like here).


I don't have a solution to propose and I don't think anything could work. I just think it's a real pity and a shame...
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: Otto on 15:07, 08 July 20
Good thoughts, and indeed the fragmentation is a pity.
 
Today, because of the Internet, we CPC fans from all over Europe and partly from all over the world could easily have a common portal (which your CPCwiki and its forum is for me). Thanks to video games and also other media like films, most of us know enough English to be able to communicate.
 
Don't get me wrong: It's great that each nation has its language, and I'm no friend of globalism because it kills tradition and individuality. But while it's always difficult for us who don't speak English as native language, to write or say something in English being more complicated than small-talk, I think it's well worth the effort, because this way we CPC fans can communicate across language barriers.
 
The solution for the CPC scene fragementation problem is simple™ : every single CPC fan could think about sharing his experience in a common "API" language also with other CPC fans who speak another language. This way he could reach many more people, which in-turn would make the CPC scene much stronger.

A bit like: March separated, strike together!
 
P.S. Just today I watched Roudoudou's video about sub-pixeling from the new race-game thread (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/games/deva-drifter-(racing-game)/msg189448/#msg189448). The video is in French. It was all Greek to me. I got some ideas from the English comments in his source codes and from his desktop he shared in his video, but I thought: what a pity that despite our same interests (CPC) and same operating system (hehe) and living only a few hundreds of kilometers away, I can't extract the valuable infos he wanted to share. Oh yes, a pity.
 
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: SkulleateR on 15:17, 08 July 20

...and of course, there are MORE in every language. And then you have Discord, and almost EVERYONE who has a YouTube channel thinks they've GOT to have their own, because obviously IRC is not enough? Granted, a chat service is different from a forum-like community and has its own use, but having different servers with multiple channels? How one can even manage to follow all that? I use Slack for work, with three or four servers and their corresponding channels and I'm just swamped.


I mean, by this point the scene is a total mess. Everyone wants to be the admin/owner of their own little group/community/whatever. And content is flying left and right and you have to have your antennas on at all times, or else put your hopes in people who follow those communities but will cross-post in others (like here).


But CPC Scene is not the only that suffers from this, have a look at the Amiga Scene for example ... you got 68k users, PowerPC users, FPGA and/or emulation users, you got Amiga OS 3.x, 4.x, MorphOS, AROS and everyone thinks his opinion is best .... it´s sad IMHO since we almost all want the same : Having fun with our hobby !!!!!!


But also whats really positive is that we got a LOT new releases of games and apps and really good ones too ;)
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: Gryzor on 15:27, 08 July 20
@Otto (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2982) : indeed I'm no friend of globalisation either; I wouldn't even be against people using their own language -which may be the only language they're comfortable with, or the only one they speak; not everyone speaks English, and not everyone who does speaks it fluently. But we could have a single, multi-lingual community. For instance, I follow lots of French and Spanish accounts on Twitter. French, I can speak so it's usually no problem unless they start with their slang. Spanish, I can understand it, but with difficulty. But it helps even seeing a screenshot...

@SkulleateR (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3124) : oh yes, that fragmentation of the Amiga scene is something else... but at least they all agree to some extend about the good old days :D
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: roudoudou on 15:27, 08 July 20
P.S. Just today I watched Roudoudou's video about sub-pixeling from the new race-game thread (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/games/deva-drifter-(racing-game)/msg189448/#msg189448). The video is in French. It was all Greek to me. I got some ideas from the English comments in his source codes and from his desktop he shared in his video, but I thought: what a pity that despite our same interests (CPC) and same operating system (hehe) and living only a few hundreds of kilometers away, I can't extract the valuable infos he wanted to share. Oh yes, a pity.
But after that you found another video in english about subpixel  ;D
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: Gryzor on 15:30, 08 July 20
If nothing else content in other languages is a motivation to learn them :D
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: Otto on 15:46, 08 July 20
@Otto (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2982) : indeed I'm no friend of globalisation either; I wouldn't even be against people using their own language -which may be the only language they're comfortable with, or the only one they speak; not everyone speaks English, and not everyone who does speaks it fluently. But we could have a single, multi-lingual community.
Yes, that would be fine, too.
I saw on your forum here that there's already sub-forums in other languages (French and German) and I think it's a great thing to have.
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: Gryzor on 15:48, 08 July 20
Yeah, those were attempts to accommodate people preferring to post in their native language, but very few seemed to care; I don't know what to make of this...
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: ComSoft6128 on 15:50, 08 July 20
Hi @Gryzor (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1) ,

Yes when I came back to the CPC after nearly two decades away I was looking for other CPC users and info on the current state of play. It was irritating to me that there was no centralised information resource listing all the relevant websites etc that were CPC specific - fragmented indeed.
The Wiki, in particular the Forum,  I found to be invaluable as a way of identifying the information, resources and individuals that I needed to help me (re)learn how to get things up and running here again. In fact if I had used the Wiki earlier I would have saved myself a few hundred quid that I wasted on computer repairs that needed done a 2nd time a few months later (thanks @Bryce (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=225) ).

I would suggest a new category on the main Wiki page - "CPC Info" or similar.
Have a look at this short video (and more importantly the Links underneath it) which is now shown as a Link on all my CPC YT videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vcem0E97woA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vcem0E97woA)
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: llopis on 15:58, 08 July 20
I see where you're coming from, but I actually don't have a problem with it. What exactly would we gain from a single, centralized resource? We would definitely lose a lot.


In general, I prefer smaller communities, so that fits with my preferences better. Also, each community has a slightly different feel and goal to it. When I want deep hardware talk about the CPC, I tend to come here. When I'm discussing some recent homebrew game, I'll probably use a FB group, etc, etc.


Having said that, I feel that CPCWiki is still kind of the main hub of this network of CPC communities. The Wiki itself helps a lot with that positioning and the forums are a natural growth around it. If anything, maybe we should try keeping one of the pages in the Wiki with a list of all those communities, so people can find the subset of them they prefer to use.
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: ComSoft6128 on 16:08, 08 July 20
"Having said that, I feel that CPCWiki is still kind of the main hub of this network of CPC communities. The Wiki itself helps a lot with that positioning and the forums are a natural growth around it. If anything, maybe we should try keeping one of the pages in the Wiki with a list of all those communities, so people can find the subset of them they prefer to use."

Exactly!
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: pelrun on 16:08, 08 July 20
We've probably got it better now than we ever did.


English, French, German and Spanish CPC users have always been segregated due to language, but at least these days we can go to each other's forums and use Google Translate. I'm actually surprised at how many people are happy to be here and use English even though it's not their first language!


Is it inconvenient? Sure. But at least it's accessible.
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: reidrac on 16:35, 08 July 20
Having multiple sites is not a problem, but with that fragmentation of an already small-ish community, what you get is lots of forums that are almost dead most of the time.

Seems like a lot of people have moved to FB, Discord or Telegram (or anything else; but these seem to be more popular); and forums aren't a fancy thing anymore. I'm mostly active here and Twitter, but I see other forums in Spanish or French and they are very quiet most of the time.

I don't know what is the answer, really. I guess we all are busy, or somewhere else. I get way more response when I release a game on Twitter than here (or the Spanish forum that I usually post about the release); and according to Poly Play sales, if there are people out there, they may not like supporting new games (or my games, at least).

To be honest, I haven't been here long enough, so I don't know if this is new or part of a regular cycle.

@ComSoft6128 (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2226) you have missed resources in there. Why not just use http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Links ? May be needs to be updated, but that's easy to do by almost anyone. Actually, I don't see a link to my site  :picard:
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: Otto on 17:43, 08 July 20
Yeah, those were attempts to accommodate people preferring to post in their native language, but very few seemed to care; I don't know what to make of this...
For CPC things concerning local topics I definitely would use my language's sub-forum.
 
However, since usually I want to read from and write to as many CPC users as possible (which are not that many anyway), I usually prefer to use the English main-forum. To help the anti-fragmentation. :-)
 
By the way, I think one German sub-forum would be enough, like the one French sub-forum. The current many German subforums are more difficult to watch in order to see if new articles were posted.
 
Maybe a Spanish user would like create a poll to see if a Spanish sub-forum here on Cpcwiki-forum would be appreciated? Provided you, Gryzor, as main-forum admin would like the idea. I'm asking because the Spanish CPC developers and users seem to be a majority.
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: VincentGR on 18:49, 08 July 20
A forum is a must, posts don't disappear like farts in the wind (discord, fb, etc)
Multiple sites also is not such a big problem as many users are feeling better by speaking their own language.
I would like this site to be in Greek but I wouldn't have met so many friendly chaps as I did.


As for the thing about everyone makes he's own site/server/channel after visiting another one... you know, this is the internet and not only our community.


(https://www.athinorama.gr/lmnts/events/cinema/1007660/Poster.jpg)
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: mr_lou on 19:04, 08 July 20
I remember when I learned that the french and spanish people were rather active on the CPC, I had 3 thoughts - in the following order:


Since most people in Denmark knows english, I didn't understand that many french and spanish folks simply don't know english, so at first I thought it was a pride thing. Like "no we don't want you english dudes to be included in this!".  I realized later that it's of course a different reality.

So language fragmentation is unavoidable.
I'd still love to learn french and spanish solely for CPC reasons, but I know I'll never find the time.

Maybe a better solution would be to find more translators to translate various CPC productions? I mean, why not?
Not sure what it would take to organize something like that. And maybe it would require payment too. But I think that's my best bet of bringing the whole community more together: Translate games and utilities and diskmags. Everyone who'd like an english version of a certain production could pay someone € 1 EUR each to translate it. Or maybe € 2 EUR depending on (lack of) interest.

But anyway, fragmentation isn't necessarily a bad thing. In fact, I think it can be a good thing.
It's nice to have a selection. Especially when you have a falling in with someone on one server, where the admins didn't take your side of things. If there were no other options you might feel forced to turn your back on the CPC - and that would be bad, mkay.
So I welcome multiple smaller servers.

Personally I'm only using CPCwiki though. But that's simply because I don't use Facebook. I was on Xyphoe's Discord server though, but I left it (along with a bunch of other Discord servers too) recently because I realized it's a bad idea to be idle on all these servers when I don't have time to keep up with them anyway. No one can keep up with all of these places at the same time. You gotta pick one or two of them.
Being on a lot of servers that you aren't really active in, just means that someone will most likely label you as a terrible person for "self promotion without ever participating otherwise" when you finally do (try to) participate, e.g. because you completed some project you feel is relevant.

I don't think CPCwiki should add more language forums. I think CPCwiki should stay "the english CPC site and forum" - but then look into translations of existing projects instead. I'm not learning french nor spanish even though I'd love to, it's just not going to happen. But I'd love to read (english) diskmags from the french and spanish CPC scene.
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: Gryzor on 20:16, 08 July 20
Hey guys, just to let you know that I'm reading all your comments and am thankful for them. Will be busy till tomorrow afternoon probably, so will reply in bulk then :)

In the meantime, keep them coming!
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: deepfb on 21:00, 08 July 20
I believe it is more a problem of users leaving forums for FB & Twitter than a language problem*

Last year I had a nasty argument with a well-known spanish user about this. He posted this tweet, and I disliked it.

(https://www.amstrad.es/forum/download/file.php?id=5810&t=1)

English translation: "We have a new Telegram chat, but you need us to invite you. Are you gonna miss it? Tens of Amstrad CPC software developers & fans are already in. Do you want the News before anybody else? Ask us for an invitation"

I couldn't help but starting a row (https://www.amstrad.es/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5446&hilit=atila#p74725) in a Spanish CPC forum, stating that I would never use again Telegram, Whatsapp, Facebook, Discord, Slack, Twitter to announce anything related to the Amstrad CPC, and discouraging our fellow forum users to do the same. Atila/Blackmores replied that message, saying that it was "envy" that motivated my rant. This was his last post in the Amstrad.es forums xD

And this is why, at this point, I am quite sure that the fragmentation you are alluding is not a language problem, but that

I don't know either how to solve the problem, or even if it is a real problem. Maybe it's just I am/we are obsolete :D

*And for the languages, and adding a controversial opinion -please take it humorously: I would love to see a joint CPCWiki-Amstrad.es forum, with Castellano (and even Catalan, Euskera or Galego) sections for users that don't want to learn or use English. Take into account that it is not (just) that we are lazy people xD, but that for us not English-native speakers, it is sometimes hard to write *in English* in places where some users disregard or express displeasure when reading comments by people (usually from the south of Europe ;-) that is not totally aware of the twists of that f****ng language xD In our interactions, we southerners may be lazy, *and* some English native speakers may be little xenophobe & impatient :D
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: dthrone on 21:33, 08 July 20

You do all know that Alan Sugar is a regular lurker here don't you?  He likes to watch how his legacy is evolving.  How do you expect him to read your posts unless you write in English?

Seriously though, as pelrun mentioned earlier, with Google Translate, I have no problem reading French and Spanish articles on websites and posts on forums.  I actually find French technical articles always seem to be written in a very humorous and entertaining style which I really enjoy!   
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: Nich on 21:35, 08 July 20
I mean, by this point the scene is a total mess. Everyone wants to be the admin/owner of their own little group/community/whatever. And content is flying left and right and you have to have your antennas on at all times, or else put your hopes in people who follow those communities but will cross-post in others (like here).

I don't have a solution to propose and I don't think anything could work. I just think it's a real pity and a shame...

Just be glad that the Amstrad CPC scene does not have the same infighting that the ZX Spectrum scene has been going through in the last couple of weeks. I only lurk on the main ZX Spectrum forums but it really disgusts me to see what is happening (@reidrac will know what I mean ;)).
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: reidrac on 22:14, 08 July 20
Just be glad that the Amstrad CPC scene does not have the same infighting that the ZX Spectrum scene has been going through in the last couple of weeks. I only lurk on the main ZX Spectrum forums but it really disgusts me to see what is happening (@reidrac will know what I mean ;)).

That situation is terrible. But I can also say that every 8-bit community I know has had any sort of drama at some point; and the CPC is not exempt.

Some things I think is probably better if you don't know about them.
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: EddieRoyaleWithCheese on 22:27, 08 July 20
lots of people I know
used WoS a lot , and then Lee Foghatty took over.


after the vega+ thing, I don't know many who go there now


it is a shame when things get broken. then they can never be together again




a little like family when someone who links every person dies, then no one makes the effort to stay in touch anymore
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: EddieRoyaleWithCheese on 22:30, 08 July 20
Just be glad that the Amstrad CPC scene does not have the same infighting that the ZX Spectrum scene has been going through in the last couple of weeks. I only lurk on the main ZX Spectrum forums but it really disgusts me to see what is happening (@reidrac will know what I mean ;) ).
could you tell me some more. what has happened? is it next related. I don't follow things now
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: dthrone on 11:32, 09 July 20
could you tell me some more. what has happened? is it next related. I don't follow things now


Off topic but seems to be surrounding this (https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2829&sid=3a25c0d489126d578194a29487c8e9db (https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2829&sid=3a25c0d489126d578194a29487c8e9db))
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: TotO on 11:58, 09 July 20
Don't forget peoples doing things around the CPC alone, they don't go to forums or other social networks. Only on websites to got hardware and softwares. And peoples who prefer to meet others into the real life at events to share their hobby. They are as many as there are villages, countries and languages around the world.
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: reidrac on 12:33, 09 July 20
That's also a good point, but you my find yourself like me that there's nobody around interested, or you may not be able to go to retro events because real life commitments.

For me, it is online communities or nothing  :(

(And, to be fair, the few C64 folks around... I haven't met them in person anyway)
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: Otto on 13:06, 09 July 20
Seems like a lot of people have moved to FB, Discord or Telegram (or anything else; but these seem to be more popular); and forums aren't a fancy thing anymore. I'm mostly active here and Twitter, but I see other forums in Spanish or French and they are very quiet most of the time.

It's a bad fruit of fragmentation that CPC users don't find all new CPC games from programmers (like you are one) anymore, and the other way round. Because there's no central place to look anymore.
 
Well, there are central places, like this fine CPCwiki and its forum here. But as you correctly say, modern people tend to desert forums and the like, and move to the data-kraken's social data-traps like Facebook, Discord etc, which Vincent described amusingly but correctly so:
A forum is a must, posts don't disappear like farts in the wind (discord, fb, etc)

So it's us users' own behaviour which helps the fragmentation, cutting the users from the programmers and the other way round, so that programmers rightly complain that their work isn't found anymore by the users.
 
Because our communication disappears in the vast social media channels like farts in the wind.
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: llopis on 13:11, 09 July 20
Because our communication disappears in the vast social media channels like farts in the wind.
Which to be fair, it's fine for 90% conversations (I'm being generous). That's why I think that each medium has its place.


Telegram and discord channels are like walking in a bar full of people you know who love the CPC as much as you do. You just shoot the breeze and have a good time. Forums are something more permanent for deeper, more interesting discussions.
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: arkive on 13:49, 09 July 20
I'm interested in all the 8-bit platforms and try to follow all the "scenes". The only way to do this is to track a few main forums for each of them, and it usually works well enough. These forums (eg AtariAge, Spectrum Computing, this one) usually get all the latest info, even if it's sometimes delayed and has to filter through from smaller communities.

I don't think it's possible to avoid fragmentation, since it's a natural state of things, but as long as there is a "main" hub, it's ok. Spectrum also has very strong and independent communities in, say, Russia or Portugal, with their own life, but there are always some representatives who connect these to the English speaking places.

As for drama and infighting, well, it's very sad (especially the latest WoS clusterf**k) but it's us humans after all. We just do what we always do, it's seem to be as unavoidable as fragmentation.
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: EddieRoyaleWithCheese on 14:54, 09 July 20
Yes, that would be fine, too.
I saw on your forum here that there's already sub-forums in other languages (French and German) and I think it's a great thing to have.
a good thing
yes
but you need to know
each
language to be effective
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 14:56, 09 July 20
Hi Vince...  :picard2:
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: Otto on 15:24, 09 July 20
You do all know that Alan Sugar is a regular lurker here don't you?  He likes to watch how his legacy is evolving.  How do you expect him to read your posts unless you write in English?
That's a good point! (Does Sugar really read here, occasionally?)
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: Otto on 15:30, 09 July 20
Quote from: Otto
Because our communication disappears in the vast social media channels like farts in the wind.
Which to be fair, it's fine for 90% conversations (I'm being generous). That's why I think that each medium has its place.
90%+ on social media channel talk is indeed "farts in the wind".
That's why I prefer the good old motto: But let your statement be Yes, yes or No, no.

One way to get back to quality instead of quantity seems paper+Internet magazines like the 8-Bit Annual 2018 and 2019 (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/general-discussion/8-bit-annual-2019-16987/msg189476/), where we find bundled information about new 8-bit games and interviews with their makers. I found these nice PDF-files in the linked thread here in the forum. Also CPCwiki-forum user Reidrac was portrayed and several of his nice games reviewed.
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: norecess on 17:50, 09 July 20
@Gryzor (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1) My personal opinion: there is nothing wrong with multiple communities around the same topic. I think it's quite good to have many sub-forums/communities/sites/discord/youtube/etc whatever the language used: to me, this proves the Amstrad scene in general is in good health. I personally feel it's in a much better shape than 10 years ago.
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 23:10, 09 July 20
DISCLAIMER: THE BELOW IS STRICTLY MY OPINION ON WHAT I'VE SEEN IN THE LAST DECADE AND A HALF, AND I LIKE TO THINK I'M DOWN WITH THE KIDS, YO!

I'm with @norecess (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2409) on this one.

Forums are fine, but they're a pain in the ass to maintain and one persons idea of good moderating / administrating isn't necessarily reflected by other posters. So it's a case of 'our house, our rules, deal with it!', which is why they're slowly dying with the exception of the hangers on, as that's less of an issue on social media platforms (although it can happen!)

It's also a generational thing too. IRC was brought up recently and quite frankly, I haven't used IRC on a regular basis since about 2002-2003! Messengers took it over and the likes of Facebook Groups can have multiple chats, as can google, etc.

Smartphones is what really changed the game for platforms. Forums are a complete pain in the arse on a smartphone, but messengers are a lot easier to manage. As are Facebook groups, and as time has passed, there are more and more people with smartphones and tablets and less and less people with desktops and laptops, and Forums and IRC can't scale as well to modern devices (trust me, I've tried both!).

So it's a combination of generation and technology, but I don't see a problem with having multiple platforms. You'll always find people you like on one, and people who make your skin crawl on another.
It's choice, it's not a competition. The sooner people stop seeing it as the latter, the less it'll bother them.
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: mr_lou on 08:15, 10 July 20
The PlayStation communities shares a lot of content between forums / discords / facebook etc:
Whenever one site writes an article (in whatever language), almost all the other sites follows up, either with a direct copy or a translated version. And then at the end of the post they include a link to the original source.

That way all the PlayStation forums are actually discussing the same topics at the same time, only on different sites and in different groups of people. No one on any site is missing any news, because they all copy from each other - and it's all fine and good because they include the link to the original source, so everyone is ok with it.

Maybe CPCwiki could do something similar? Copy from all sorts of other sources? Translate foreign posts into english?
This is already happening a little bit of course. I think XeNoMoRPH has been pretty good at keeping us updated on what's happening elsewhere. Neil79 was also good at posting from IndieRetroNews once, but it seems he stopped doing that for some reason. Xyphoe also used to post new vids here.
I get it though. Once their own platforms are established they have enough on their hands. But that's not a problem. It merely means that someone else here from the CPCwiki could/should take over for each external source.

I think, to run some defragmentation in the CPC community, each site should allow a lot more linking to each other instead of being so "you're self promoting your own site blah blah", and each site shouldn't be so worried that discussion about a certain production happens on another site instead of their own.
I agree a lot about the whole "stop seeing it as competition but rather as common interest spread across multiple groups of people".

So my suggestion is that we find people from each external source who are also using CPCwiki, and ask them to do the same as in the PlayStation communities: Copy/translate forum posts from external sources to here. It's fine to use Google Translate and then polish it. Doesn't have to be perfect.
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: roudoudou on 09:35, 10 July 20
Maybe CPCwiki could do something similar? Copy from all sorts of other sources? Translate foreign posts into english?
the CPC brings with it a particular state of mind. Not so long ago that was still the "school of secrets"
looks at the recent emulators, how many are opensource?


Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: mr_lou on 09:47, 10 July 20
the CPC brings with it a particular state of mind. Not so long ago that was still the "school of secrets"
looks at the recent emulators, how many are opensource?

I don't think you can compare those two. OpenSource is something else. Just because something isn't OpenSource doesn't mean the author wants to keep secrets. I'm pretty sure in most cases it's more because he's too lazy to do the work, and doesn't wanna be subject to smartasses online telling him how poor his code is.  ;)

Translating a spanish news article on another forum into English for the CPCwiki forum, and linking to the original source - that's a different category.
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: Otto on 10:06, 10 July 20
I think XeNoMoRPH has been pretty good at keeping us updated on what's happening elsewhere.
You're right, and I would like to thank @XeNoMoRPH (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1952) and his Spanish CPC-friends here for the fine updates, so we non-Spanish-speakers get information about the Spanish CPC work, too.

Also I'm thankful to @roudoudou (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1714) and his French fellow-developers that they regularly bring new information about their fine work to this important CPCwiki and its forum.

Keep up the good work, CPC friends.

P.S. Let's also not forget that aside the important CPCwiki forum here, the CPC-Wiki itself is an important information centre where we can find tons of well organized and valuable information about how to use the CPC and how to develop for it. I wished we had such information back then in the 1980'ies. :-)
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: roudoudou on 10:30, 10 July 20
You're right, and I would like to thank @XeNoMoRPH (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1952) and his Spanish CPC-friends here for the fine updates, so we non-Spanish-speakers get information about the Spanish CPC work, too.
thanks to @XeNoMoRPH (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1952) indeed
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: Otto on 11:27, 10 July 20
While we're talking about work-in-progress (WIP) and related discussions, there's another important website which regularly and since years reports about the fruits of this work, the old and new CPC games themselves. And so it too helps that CPC friends keep an unfragmented overview of what's there and what's not: @Nich (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=53) 's cool CPC Game Reviews (http://cpcgamereviews.com/). Thanks Nich, too! It's great that guys like you are active also here on Gryzor's fine CPCwiki and forum web-site.
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: GUNHED on 16:38, 10 July 20
@Gryzor (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1) My personal opinion: there is nothing wrong with multiple communities around the same topic. I think it's quite good to have many sub-forums/communities/sites/discord/youtube/etc whatever the language used: to me, this proves the Amstrad scene in general is in good health. I personally feel it's in a much better shape than 10 years ago.
Very, true! As long as we have diversity it's alive. As soon as we have one big thing, it's nearly dead. Disc mags were a great example for that. First there were many, then they fused, had one last fusion issue and... died eventually.
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: Gryzor on 16:42, 10 July 20
Very, true! As long as we have diversity it's alive. As soon as we have one big thing, it's nearly dead. Disc mags were a great example for that. First there were many, then they fused, had one last fusion issue and... died eventually.

...or maybe you could argue that "many" was not sustainable and the whole thing collapsed because of that, and you could even consider that nobody said a single, monolithic community (that is, the extreme opposite) is argued for, but oh well.
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: ComSoft6128 on 17:45, 10 July 20
A diverse CPC ecosystem is best for all of us - BUT - maybe each element of that ecosystem should have a map showing the links to everywhere else.
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: arkive on 17:58, 10 July 20
A diverse CPC ecosystem is best for all of us - BUT - maybe each element of that ecosystem should have a map showing the links to everywhere else.
It'd be nice but also a mammoth task to maintain :) I think search engines compensate for that though.
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: ComSoft6128 on 18:08, 10 July 20
It'd be nice but also a mammoth task to maintain :) I think search engines compensate for that though.


Mmm, One page of links with the creation date - "information valid as of....." with a note to users to report any dead links to Admin shouldn't be too hard. And search engines are fine if you know exactly what you are looking for. :)
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: arkive on 18:13, 10 July 20
You said "each element of that ecosystem" and that's what I was refering to. Imagine every little blog, fb page etc etc trying to maintain links to everybody else...nah, not gonna happen :)

It could be useful here though, for sure. Many other sites have similar resources thread or FAQ page.
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: Bryce on 19:47, 10 July 20
It's great to offer areas within this forum for other languages, although I tend to agree that the post count is too low to need separate subforums. The problem will always be that if you want an audience, whether to answer an issue you have or to announce your product, english is always going to reach the largest audience.

If poeple really don't speak english, I can answer in German or French too, but I don't always have the answer.   :-[

Bryce.
Title: Re: The State of the CPC Scene
Post by: Johnny Olsen on 11:38, 11 July 20

P.S. Just today I watched Roudoudou's video about sub-pixeling from the new race-game thread (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/games/deva-drifter-(racing-game)/msg189448/#msg189448). The video is in French. It was all Greek to me. I got some ideas from the English comments in his source codes and from his desktop he shared in his video, but I thought: what a pity that despite our same interests (CPC) and same operating system (hehe) and living only a few hundreds of kilometers away, I can't extract the valuable infos he wanted to share. Oh yes, a pity.

You have the option to add subtitles and change them to another language.