... do you guys know how much it bores to read sentences like this?
Cool, go on telling everybody who developed a new game (or whatever) for the CPC crap like this, and soon we got Zero game development, because instead of getting some appreciation we have to read nonsense like 'This isn't my cup of tea...'.
IF you don't like it then at least appreciate the attempt, but don't put em down for actually doing something for the CPC.
>:(
(http://images.clipartpanda.com/popcorn-clip-art-4ibBRgxig.jpeg)
What a wonderful world it would be if everyone loved everything everyone did. :)
I prefer everyone to be honest - just be polite while being honest.
Oversensitive much? ;)
"This isn't my cup of tea" isn't so much a jab at the product. It's more a persons way of saying "Doesn't particularly interest me despite giving it a try". Which isn't the worst thing to have said to you. At least it was looked at and then an opinion was formed as opposed to just crapped on without even being given a chance.
Now if the stuff that came after "but..." wasn't so polite... then that's a different story. ;)
In many cases I admit that something is "not my cup of tea" but I try and then enjoy it :) . Maybe is more about the way of saying things, since many of us are not native english speakers. For example, I tend to use the expression when I like a product although it belongs to a class of, let´s say games, that I usually do not play. I am not very fond of strategy games, but I remember playing some that I really liked :D
Jepp. A lot of things are not my favorite thing, like most things are not top notch for most of persons. That's the case since humans can count to more than two I guess.
However, it can't be so hard to give some nice positive feedback without some side sentence relativating / killing it all. Of course we always get the same customers here bitching at others while being 0% productive by themselves.
And no I don't accept any excuses here, because IMHO it's all about motivating somebody. You can be 'honest' or what ever you call it later, but stop stepping on people that rude way.
And it's not being oversensitive here at all, else I wouldn't hang out here any longer anyway! Nobody attached me, an nobody (of value) will ever do. But I see that 'new' people get attacked and that's just very bad! For the person, for the reputation of the forum, for the game development process, for any future projects.
Think about it! And show some appreciation towards others, ever if their game is something you think it's boring. It ain't that hard to be nice once in a while! :)
Quote from: TFM on 19:31, 11 February 16
Think about it! And show some appreciation towards others, ever if their game is something you think it's boring.
Or slow? ;D :P ;)
"It's not my cup of tea" is not that bad, because it usually comes with a positive. Not everybody likes all games, and if you still managed to get someone that doesn't like one genre or type of game to play your game, that's brilliant!
In my experience when I release a game for free after a lot of work, in my free time, because I like doing that, sometimes you may get some silly feedback.
My favourite is the line of "replay value", or perhaps "X is OK, but could be better". Well, too bad. I don't do this for money, but I don't mind refunding some nothing if that's necessary :P
Anyway, I can't complain with the people around here. With the two games I've released I got very good feedback (and that doesn't mean only positive feedback!).
I don't drink tea I drink coffee - so, it is NEVER my cup of tea. 8)
I may not be here every day, but I finde people interested, very helpful and still get surprised how active most are. If I do not like a new game/prog etc., I just stay silent.
Can I have some sinalco with my popcorn ? (popcorn © pc schneider international (1988) (http://www.cpc-power.com/index.php?page=detail&num=6906))
Maybe it's a cultural thing. In England, at least, the phrase "not my cup of tea" is used to indicate that the writer is aware of their own personal bias. So they are in effect saying they're probably not the target audience, but can appreciate that others will and that they're probably not best placed to give entirely constructive feedback.
I certainly wouldn't have ever taken it to heart, but then if you said anything I did was "crap", I'd probably agree. :laugh:
I learnt the expression in UK indeed and, as you say, here people use it to communicate that although they are not very fond of that particular kind of things there really appreciate what they are looking at. I actually remember that somebody told me exactly the same about our little adventure to express that, although the genre was not his cup of tea, he liked the game :).
Quote from: ||C|-|E|| on 20:22, 11 February 16
I actually remember that somebody told me exactly the same about our little adventure to express that, although the genre was not his cup of tea, he liked the game :) .
Your game's genre is definitely my cup of tea :)
I can't wait to play the final release as well getting my hands on a possible boxed edition!
Haha! Eventually we're getting there. ;)
Yes, we still need a bit more time, but everything will eventually come :D
Quote from: TFM on 19:31, 11 February 16It ain't that hard to be nice once in a while! :)
Given that you've answered many people's threads (mine included) in a rather rude and condescending manner, I dunno, is anyone else seeing the stinging irony of this statement coming from TFM?
#justsaying :laugh:
English is "isn't my cup of tea" to me and many people can write things not as the ment to be.
But yes I have to agree. If a person is giving his time to make even a moving dot on the screen on a dead machine it is just rude to ask for something in your tastes.
Also giving a score is bad too.
I think you can say your opinion if the author asks for it.
Personal taste can be said though but the wrong thing is to give 2/10 for that.
Imagine a judge to give 1 point cause he hates chicken and your plate could be awesome ;D
I'm not sure what to say, other than I like tea, but HATE coffee.
In terms of the expression "this isn't my cup of tea", I read that as "this may well be good, but I am not a good judge, as this type of thing (genre) is not what I like".
In terms of criticism, of course people like it when something is well received. But constructive criticism can be useful as well. As a developer (software, hardware, whateverware :laugh: ) you will find yourself only able to see things from your own blinkered point of view. Other people may suggest things to improve what you are producing. And certainly with open software and hardware designs, peer reviews often result in mistakes being found. Saves trouble later ;D
Mark
Personally I thought "This isn't my cup of tea" was in reference to something your not good at, so personally I'm no good at Adventure Games, so that isn't my cup of tea, even though it's good to type them in because it's good touch typing practice, which is my cup of tea, but if people find errors in the programming, then the accuracy needs to improve.
So you cannot be great at everything surely?!? :o
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 23:55, 11 February 16
Given that you've answered many people's threads (mine included) in a rather rude and condescending manner, I dunno, is anyone else seeing the stinging irony of this statement coming from TFM?
#justsaying :laugh:
For me, this thread is a big irony by itself. ;)
But it seems irony isn't the cup of tee of some people. :laugh:
I want to say what others have said:
"not my cup of tea" just means that the person who said this is not interested in it but knows others will. It is just another way of saying "I'm not interested in this kind of game but you will be".
In this case, I think it means that the person is not interested in this type of game, they are not giving their opinion on how good or bad it is.
Yes, I fully agree. There are often misunderstandings when it comes to phrases like this. "Not my cup of tea" isn't a negative statement. It just means "It's not the type of game I like to play". So for example, any text adventure would not be my cup of tea, but I still might think that it has been fantastically written or that the graphics are extremely well done.
On criticism generally, I always like to hear both positive and negative feedback about my hardware. If I only got positive feedback I could assume my hardware was perfect (which I am very sure it isn't). And what's perfect for one person, might be missing something important for someone else, so negative feedback is important. How else does the creator know what they should try and improve for the next version?
It's also important to grade the criticism. If many people say "you should have done... X" then it probably would have been a good idea. If one person says "I don't like... Y", then that's just their personal opinion, which they are entitled to, but hardly a reason to consider their suggestion.
What's more important is that you don't over-react to criticism. Don't take criticism personal and don't try to aggressively defend your product. At most, just explain why you chose or had to choose certain aspects/features. The design decisions you made were your choice.
Bryce.
I'm sorry, I have been away for a few days, whose cup of tea started this? Perhaps a nice calming earl grey with lemon and honey will settle things down ;)
How dare anyone offer an opinion! It can't be of any use......
Take for example my recent review of the new game Jim Slide on the Atari 8 bit. I made a few minor criticisms of an otherwise great game which the coder has taken on-board and fixed in the new version.
On the other hand we could all sit back, never say anything, and nothing ever gets fixed.
Constructive criticism is good, as long as you don't go "The guy who made this is a moron for doing it this way I don't like".
As I said, just be polite. Should be simple enough.
What's TFM bleating on about this time... ;) He must be bored, I suggest he puts his feet up and sips on a nice cuppa tea. It appears to me as if he's completely taken it out of context, no big deal, it can happen to anyone. He couldn't possibly be shit stirring.
Constructive criticism is good, it's one of the reasons we don't have aeroplanes falling out of the sky, every five minutes.
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 23:55, 11 February 16
Given that you've answered many people's threads (mine included) in a rather rude and condescending manner, I dunno, is anyone else seeing the stinging irony of this statement coming from TFM?
#justsaying :laugh:
Haha! I see the irony in yours for sure! :laugh: Seems that you project your character traits on me. Don't forget, you are the guy who is bitching at [nb]nearly[/nb] every game ever made. Just my "Drei Pfennige". :) :) :)
Quote from: ukmarkh on 16:39, 12 February 16
What's TFM bleating on about this time... ;) He must be bored, I suggest he puts his feet up and sips on a nice cuppa tea. It appears to me as if he's completely taken it out of context, no big deal, it can happen to anyone. He couldn't possibly be shit stirring.
Constructive criticism is good, it's one of the reasons we don't have aeroplanes falling out of the sky, every five minutes.
This is exactly the kind of negative and insulting stuff which I personally don't like to see in a forum, because it destructs the scene and kills production. Why don't you try to be positive one in a while? It's not that hard just give it a try! :) :) :)
Of course constructive critics is welcome - and if you are polite, then let the author ask for it. But IMHO it's not ok, to put rather negative comments over any new productions.
Have you realized how seldom pure positive comments are given?`How hard can it be? Think about the guy making an effort! Give him some motivation, instead of stalling him! [nb]Or even putting him down[/nb]
You are the only person storming up a hornets nest! The stuff you are bleating on about, goes without saying. It's not our fault that you took things out of context. Why don't we ask the programmers making these games how they feel about constructive criticism?
Quote from: ukmarkh on 16:58, 12 February 16
You are the only person storming up a hornets nest! The stuff you are bleating on about, goes without saying. It's not our fault that you took things out of context. Why don't we ask the programmers making these games how they feel about constructive criticism?
Well, some told me how depressing it is to present here, and I didn't even ask them. Therefore I bring the topic up. All I want is that people are more polite and use common sense. Of course in some cases Hop and Wheat is lost.[nb]Bei manchen ist Hopfen und Weizen verloren. Leider![/nb]
This thread proves that just because you can speak a language, it doesn't mean you understand it and maybe "some people" need to understand an expression before raging against those who already do.
It really needs closing, now, though; pointless thread is pointless.
As I read through this thread, I wondered if there were expressions in other languages that might puzzle readers, and then TFM supplied the answer "Hop and wheat is lost", what does that mean?
Guess he wanted to write "Hop and Malt is lost"
"Hop and malt is lost The idiom stems from beer brewing - surprise! If "Hopfen und Malz ist verloren," then you'd better just give up hope because it is a lost cause. Should something go wrong in the brewing process, the ingredients were considered wasted, and a good beer was thus, a lost cause."
It means some just don't want to understand or insist in their POV.
Of course there is a lot of language trouble, and therefore it would be great if people would talk / write a bit more nice and use some common sense instead of behaving like an elephant in a porcelain shop (again such an expression... haha).
Surely some few persons fear this topic and try to close it, instead to overthink how they actually could do better.
Other people try to distract from the topic, and try to insist that this is about serious critics.
But all I pledge for is to be friendly and not to bitch at new releases.
I saw more often releases where I just thought OMG! But in this case I just keep silent. :)
(http://crow202.org/2008/fail_spock.jpg)
Yes, we have a similar expression "bull in a china shop".
Easy... ;) :)
(https://episyllogism.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/hyp.jpg)
Quote from: TFM on 16:41, 12 February 16
This is exactly the kind of negative and insulting stuff which I personally don't like to see in a forum, because it destructs the scene and kills production. Why don't you try to be positive one in a while? It's not that hard just give it a try! :) :) :)
Well I would of thought a coder would code regardless of the consequences typed on a forum.
A coder from "back in the day" has moved onto other things, which leaves the stubborn "my machine's not dead yet" writing regardless of the outcome.
Let's hope you're right for most cases! :)
Quote from: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 21:18, 12 February 16
(https://episyllogism.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/hyp.jpg)
Yeah! Take it to the heart!!! :P :P :P
Ok, just to put things in perspective:
@TFM (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=179): We should leave the church in the village and hold the ball flat. You are on the wood way and they are just taking you on the arm. In the calmness lies the strength![nb]To non-Germans: These are 1 to 1 translations of common German phrases.[/nb]
As you can see, words don't always mean what they seem. Languages and local phrases can totally confuse others, even if they understand the individual words.
Bryce.
Sure and as told I only pledge for a polite and peaceful talking / writing environment. :)
Totally offtopic: the language problem
I remember my early days (we only invented fire and thought wheels are way cool) first schooltrip to england - went into wimpy (an experience you do not want to make ;D if you know MCD or BurgerK)
and a classmate of mine proudly ordered "I become a hamburger".
Quote from: SRS on 22:41, 12 February 16
Totally offtopic: the language problem
I remember my early days (we only invented fire and thought wheels are way cool) first schooltrip to england - went into wimpy (an experience you do not want to make ;D if you know MCD or BurgerK)
and a classmate of mine proudly ordered "I become a hamburger".
One of my German colleagues on his first trip to the UK asked for a "mirror egg" for breakfast in the hotel :D
Bryce.
Haha, buddy of mine wanted more punch in the cup and told "No more". [nb]In Bavarian "No mehr" means "more please".[/nb]
In the area of the UK where I am, there is often a mix of Welsh, English (including Bristolians
[1]) and sometimes a guy from Scotland. Not all the time, but sometimes, someone says something without thinking that leaves the others confused. And they all officially speak English :laugh:
[1] A native of the City of Bristol, England. Some expressions are mostly local to Bristol, or the surrounding area.
Examples :-
- Innit(Isn't it)
- Keener(Somebody who works hard (derog.))
- Oh Ah(I understand)
- Tisunt(It is not)
- Tiz(It is)
- Lackey Band(Elastic Band)
- Laff(Laugh)
- Largurr(Lager beer)
- Laters(See you later)
- Lease(Least)
- Lectric(Electric)
- Went A Pisser(To fall badly)
- Yer Tiz(Here it is)
Plus many more!
Mark
Quote from: TFM on 16:41, 12 February 16
Haha! I see the irony in yours for sure! :laugh: Seems that you project your character traits on me. Don't forget, you are the guy who is bitching at [nb]nearly[/nb] every game ever made. Just my "Drei Pfennige". :) :) :)
You must need new glasses, dear boy. Go back and re-read some of my posts.
I actually DEFEND most of the games being bitched about here! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Start digging up...
At this point in the thread, I think it's time for a break and a cuppa. ;D
perhaps some biscuits, or for the posh, some sliced cucumber in some sandwiches cut into triangles...
And what is wrong with Wimpy may I ask :D
I used to work in a restaurant and had a German customer ask for ham.
We told him we didn't serve ham so he had something else.
Later he came up to me with the menu and said we did have ham.
He meant gammon.
Why he couldn't have looked through the menu in the first place but he was fine with the mix up. Think he understood when I explained it to him.
Just for the record I didn't work at Wimpys
I think the underlying message this thread is trying to make is that The Troll doesn't want to read any negative comments about games/demos/hardware/etc projects that have not been written by him. A quick read through The Hall Of Shame will show you where the true centre of negativity is, here!
It might be that he believes he is the God Of The Forum and no-one else's opinion matters. I know in my case, especially, this is probably true (I have no descernible talent for anything ^_^), but I think there are a lot of very talented people here whose opinion and ideas could sway a project from being good to being excellent. We all want excellent projects, do we not?
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe The Troll has changed and all his thousands of posts will be happy and positive. Maybe the world is flat and pigs can fly! Maybe!
Quote from: seanb on 14:01, 13 February 16
Just for the record I didn't work at Wimpys
Enjoy Every Moment | Home | Wimpy UK - Wimpy SA (http://www.wimpy.uk.com/)
Was it macdonalds you worked at then?
Quote from: arnoldemu on 14:12, 13 February 16
Enjoy Every Moment | Home | Wimpy UK - Wimpy SA (http://www.wimpy.uk.com/)
Was it macdonalds you worked at then?
Ha. No. A restaurant.
Not a crappy pit serving the 'best' America has to offer
Quote from: TFM on 17:06, 12 February 16
Well, some told me how depressing it is to present here [/nb]
So basically, you are shit stirring! We have a saying in the UK, "the messenger always gets shot!"
I'm still laughing at the "Mirror Egg"... :laugh:
Obviously, Spiegel Ei in german.
Bullshit german denglish marketing : Using bodybag as translation for Rucksack and not Backpack. :picard2:
Quote from: robcfg on 17:36, 13 February 16
I'm still laughing at the "Mirror Egg"... :laugh:
The world should speak more "kloppish". Regular lessons can be accessed at Anfield Road, Liverpool. :-)
Quote from: seanb on 13:54, 13 February 16
And what is wrong with Wimpy may I ask :D
I vaguely remember the bun was not roasted, there was no tomatoe, no pickled cucumber, no mayo, no ketchup (all extra cost?) ...
I just remember liking them as a child.
Went to one about 7 years ago and it wasn't that bad.
That said I hate having the bun roasted.
WHY do that?
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 12:51, 13 February 16
You must need new glasses, dear boy. Go back and re-read some of my posts.
I actually DEFEND most of the games being bitched about here! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Start digging up...
You call me boy? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Get your PhD then talk to me again baby boy! :P :P :P 8) 8) 8)
Quote from: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 14:12, 13 February 16
I think the underlying message this thread is trying to make is that The Troll doesn't want to read any negative comments about games/demos/hardware/etc projects that have not been written by him. A quick read through The Hall Of Shame will show you where the true centre of negativity is, here!
It might be that he believes he is the God Of The Forum and no-one else's opinion matters. I know in my case, especially, this is probably true (I have no descernible talent for anything ^_^), but I think there are a lot of very talented people here whose opinion and ideas could sway a project from being good to being excellent. We all want excellent projects, do we not?
Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe The Troll has changed and all his thousands of posts will be happy and positive. Maybe the world is flat and pigs can fly! Maybe!
So you talk about yourself in the 3rd person now? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: ukmarkh on 17:23, 13 February 16
So basically, you are shit stirring! We have a saying in the UK, "the messenger always gets shot!"
No, that's what you do. But humans usually project their failures on others. You are living proof for that. :P
The centre of negativity; exhibits A-Z and a whole lot more;
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/the-hall-of-shame/ (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/the-hall-of-shame/)
One name stands out over EVERYONE else in this disgraced section of the forum. ONE. NAME.
EDIT: Actually, this site (http://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/guide/delusional-disorder) could explain a source of this negativity.
I think we have enough of all this.
Please, stop, and lets go for some matters related to our machines.
Thanks.
Quote from: FloppySoftware on 07:29, 15 February 16
I think we have enough of all this.
Please, stop, and lets go for some matters related to our machines.
Thanks.
+1. This topic should be in the hall of shame too, and due to many people's comments, not just one.
Quote from: FloppySoftware on 07:29, 15 February 16
I think we have enough of all this.
Please, stop, and lets go for some matters related to our machines.
Thanks.
Yes. What he said.
Quote from: SuTeKH/Epyteor on 05:41, 15 February 16
The centre of negativity; exhibits A-Z and a whole lot more;
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/the-hall-of-shame/ (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/the-hall-of-shame/)
One name stands out over EVERYONE else in this disgraced section of the forum. ONE. NAME.
EDIT: Actually, this site (http://www.webmd.com/schizophrenia/guide/delusional-disorder) could explain a source of this negativity.
In times where the lie becomes the truth, resistance becomes a duty. I will not stop to bring light in the darkness, you and your dark fellowmen can do what you want, the light will shine at the end. And I'm proud of every time I saw one of my posts in the HOS, because I know I'm on the right way. 8) 8) 8)
EDIT: As my fellow forespeakers just told: Back to positivity, machine related things and respect for any CPC production. :)
TFM,
You don't know about this, but I defended you one time in the past. You had started a thread about something, and Gryzor attacked you (in my opinion) in his first reply. I knew about the differences you and him has had in the past (difficult to avoid noticing), but I just felt that a new thread shouldn't be attacked like this - especially not by the forum owner.
So I wrote Gryzor and told him my opinion.
I still stand by what I told Gryzor back then; that it was wrong to bring in emotions from previous threads into a new thread about a completely different topic.
But I also have to tell you now that you gotta open your eyes dude.
It seems to me you just talk real trash to most people here. One simply cannot disagree with you without getting a flood of insults thrown back in his face. That's just incredibly childish.
Disagreements != insults
I think that's about the only thing you need to get into your head.
Quote from: mr_lou on 16:21, 15 February 16
TFM,
You don't know about this, but I defended you one time in the past. You had started a thread about something, and Gryzor attacked you (in my opinion) in his first reply. I knew about the differences you and him has had in the past (difficult to avoid noticing), but I just felt that a new thread shouldn't be attacked like this - especially not by the forum owner.
So I wrote Gryzor and told him my opinion.
I still stand by what I told Gryzor back then; that it was wrong to bring in emotions from previous threads into a new thread about a completely different topic.
But I also have to tell you now that you gotta open your eyes dude.
It seems to me you just talk real trash to most people here. One simply cannot disagree with you without getting a flood of insults thrown back in his face. That's just incredibly childish.
Disagreements != insults
I think that's about the only thing you need to get into your head.
Thanks for your comment. But take a look at this thread. I started it to make people aware that it would be great if new productions for the CPC would get a little bit more appreciation. Now of course some feel attacked, lots of others share my opinion (especially persons who actually make productions for the CPC and not only bash at others). Soon it gets derailed by the usual suspects. And yes I get insulted, but it didn't make me fall down on their level.
Ok, this is a topic which has some conflict potential. Nevertheless some people here need to get aware that's not OK to bash at new stuff in general. Of course that's my POV. Maybe the majority here things bashing is cool? No, I guess we are better than what can be seen. And as a community we should be able to deal with the few trouble makers - Well, that's what I'm working on. :) :) :)
Quote from: TFM on 16:05, 15 February 16
In times where the lie becomes the truth, resistance becomes a duty. I will not stop to bring light in the darkness, you and your dark fellowmen can do what you want, the light will shine at the end. And I'm proud of every time I saw one of my posts in the HOS, because I know I'm on the right way. 8) 8) 8)
Paranoid delusion
AND grandiose delusion. You need help, old man.
Maybe listen to
mr_lou and open your eyes to
YOUR negativity and, perhaps ignore those you believe are attacking you, like we've done when YOU'VE openly attacked us. And by saying you're proud of the Hall Of Shame, it proves you've intentionally attacked others.
Practice what you (claim to) preach and
DON'T FEED THE TROLL! If you don't poke, they won't bite!
Quote from: TFM on 17:52, 15 February 16And yes I get insulted, but it didn't make me fall down on their level.
That's exactly what it did.
Quote from: TFM on 17:52, 15 February 16Nevertheless some people here need to get aware that's not OK to bash at new stuff in general.
Saying "This isn't my cup of tea" is not bashing - as the majority here seems to agree about.
:picard2:
EDIT: That's not for you Mr. Lou. That goes to the troll before.
What about telling "not my cup of bra" instead ?
Quote from: TFM on 02:12, 15 February 16
You call me boy? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Get your PhD then talk to me again baby boy! :P :P :P 8) 8) 8)
What makes you think I don't already have one?
Christ, even your attempts at trolling are utter shit. :laugh:
Bad language = offensive = hall of shame, as far as I'm concerned.
This thread is not productive in any way. To be honest the argument itself doesn't really bother me, but given how great this forum and community is in general this will be a very unfortunate thread for visitors to the site to read.
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 03:53, 16 February 16
What makes you think I don't already have one?
Christ, even your attempts at trolling are utter shit. :laugh:
Haha, just look at yourself, the way you behave! As Munchausen pointed it out, bad language is not helpful.
You don't display the slightest amount of good manners, so _no_ you _don't_ have a PhD! 8)
Quote from: gerald on 12:42, 16 February 16Who made these statements ?DRAM speed is dictated by the GA, so the 16/24MHz.Either the DRAM support beeing accessed at such speed, or it does not support it and return garbage.The CPC cannot adapt its memory access speed to the speed grade of the DRAM.
Very sad, but true. It's always the same "bunch" of people derailing a thread which is supposed to be helpful. However a thread as this is needed obviously, since there is too much negativity towards new productions. I'm in contact with few guys actually producing something for the CPC, some take bullcrap critiscs more easy, but for the majority it's a motivation-killer.
If we want to have a productive CPC secene (that is stuff running on the CPC, an not videos!) then we do need to appreciate more and bitch less.
But I can't tell this, without getting attacked from the usual suspects.
Maybe we just close this thread right here and it's good. Everything told now I guess.
Everyone, stop feeding the animals!
If the animals don't get fed, there will be no milk for the tea :laugh: ....
Quote from: TFM on 18:03, 16 February 16It's always the same "bunch" of people derailing a thread which is supposed to be helpful. However a thread as this is needed obviously, since there is too much negativity towards new productions.
How is it useful to :
- Put wrong information on the wiki,
- Say you did not put that false information in the wiki, but wiki history says the opposite.
- quoting out of context Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC? (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/technical-support/does-anyone-have-more-information-on-6-mhz-cpc/msg119929/#msg119929)
Quote from: gerald on 18:23, 16 February 16
How is it useful to :
- Put wrong information on the wiki,
- Say you did not put that false information in the wiki, but wiki history says the opposite.
- quoting out of context Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC? (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/technical-support/does-anyone-have-more-information-on-6-mhz-cpc/msg119929/#msg119929)
Obviously you are wrong:
Does anyone have more information on 6 MHz CPC? (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/technical-support/does-anyone-have-more-information-on-6-mhz-cpc/msg119969/#msg119969)
I expect your apologies. 8)
ANNOUNCEMENTSome of you have noticed that I've been fairly absent from this debate. Some of you have PM'd me. Some of you have expressed the opinion that the thread should have been locked (but did not report it).It's time this ended.I haven't taken any action up to now because of personal, real-life problems that didn't allow me to devote the time, thought and energy necessary to weeding through the posts and formulating a calm opinion. On the other hand, to tell you the truth, I've been really insulted in the past ("fascist" comes to mind) when I've dealt with behavioral issues in the forum. So I felt maybe it'd be a good opportunity for people (especially those who weren't here in older days when that kind of shite was occurring more often) to see what happens if the 'fascists' don't take action. And maybe understand why some of the actions I occasionally take and seem to be overly harsh have a reasoning and foreknowledge behind them.But I feel that this has now started hurting the forum, so I guess it's time to put an end to it, before it gets any uglier. Here's what I'm going to do:
- I'm going to leave this thread open, but ONLY to discuss the issue at a community level - i.e. no replies to previous insults and whatnot. These will be deleted.
- When the discussion has died down the thread will be locked and moved (not to the HoS).
- TMF is going to get banned for a while. I didn't agree with his opening remarks in this thread because he had clearly misunderstood some things, but that's not the reason for the ban. The reason is his being constantly quarrelsome and very often provocative. I don't like bans. And, even more so, I don't like banning people who have something to offer genuinely, like a longtime dev. But this doesn't mean anyone could/should get a carte blanche. Hopefully TFM will calm down. In general this is what has happened, time and again - he comes back, he's very calm and reasonable and then as time moves on he becomes more and more aggressive in his comments.
- I'm going to keep a close eye on other people's behaviors because, frankly guys, TFM is not the only one becoming agitated. So you can expect future offensive comments to be edited or deleted (editing vs deletion: when a post has something of value and can be edited easily, it will be edited. If it needs more than the editing out of a phrase or two, AND doesn't add anything to the discussion it will be deleted)
- Why this asymmetric approach? People have accused me in the past because of it, because they don't realise that some issues are more long-standing than others. Like in real life - when someone does something bad for the first time, you may ignore it; when he does it for the second or third or fourth time, you'll forgive them; then you'll warn them; and finally take drastic action. It's not so hard a concept, and I don't understand why people fail to understand when I tell them "hey, this is not the first time, you know".
So, that's it basically. Please do discuss if you feel like it, but please keep the tone civil. I'll try to follow the discussion as closely as possible, but if I disappear for a day or two don't hold it against me.Peace,T.
Very well said Gryzor.
Gryzor to the rescue with a fire engine full of foam :)
I hope you sprayed some of it on the members deliberately provoking TFM, as well as on TFM.
Mark
I covered that (well, not with foam :D ) in my comment about other users.
But, it's no wonder that such issues very,very rarely appear between other people.
Whilst I do agree with parts of your message, do you think banning 'TFM' or people in general is the correct approach, maybe some people just need clearer guidelines on what is acceptable. I tell you, some of the boxing forums are full of low life's, who speak horrible words to each other, and nobody ever gets banned.
My initial reaction was to go on the defensive with 'TFM', but then I realised that it could be a translation issue, as I think this is clearly what has happened here, then 'TFM' realises he eff'ed up, but is too set in his ways to own up to his mistake. We've all been in similar positions, but sometimes react in a bad way, some of us just can't accept we might be wrong. My personal reaction when put in a similar position, is to hope the ground opens up beneath me and swallows me up.
I personally don't think he means anyone any discomfort or harm, but it is easy to get carried away in these forums. Every now and then, people just need a gentle reminder of what is acceptable and what is not. Maybe a verbal slap on the head, or a poke in the ribs.
This on the whole is one of the most friendliest communities on the web, I'm sorry for pouring petrol during this debate, and especially if i've upset anyone. C'mon guys, let's all get along, this is a CPC community after all.
Hey @ukmarkh (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=34) , thanks for your comment.
I agree with what you say, with one important difference: all your suggestions have been tried, time and again, in the past. As I said, I don't like banning people even for serious reasons, but the hour of 'mild' methods has long since swooshed by.
And yes, I agree with your assessment about TFM, and although it's not our role to play mother and explain things and how one should behave, we've tried even that. No result.
I know, but I suspect the worse thing to do in this type of situation, it to publicly single someone out, and hang them out to dry in front of everyone. It's not good for the individual, or other members of the forum.
I personally believe this is a very sensitive issue, that needs handling in a sensitive manner.
Anyway, I'll shut up now, as I think some of the things I've said over the last few days, might get me banned ;)
Long live CPCWIKI!
The job of a moderator doubtless seems like a thankless task at times, but your efforts at keeping things as civil as possible are definitely appreciated.
Peace and love everyone. And if you can't think of something nice to say, go do something creative with your CPC and post about that instead.
Well said @Gryzor (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1). I also mostly agree with @ukmarkh (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=34). Although, I think it's clear that a bunch of friendly people discussing old computers might have somewhat (significantly, actually) different standards to guys on a boxing forum :laugh: .
It really is uncomfortable to single anyone out, even if it is necessary (which I guess it is), and I feel for those that are, especially when they've been goaded and bullied to some extent (no offence meant to anyone by saying that). In the spirit of evening that out a bit (and I'm not taking sides on anything when I say this) I'll say that from what I know TFM really is a nice guy. And I bet all the other members are too :D
@Gryzor (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1) I didn't press the report button even though it was obvious the thread was getting out of hand. I figured you would notice a thread like this at some point and did have the thought that something slightly different to normal might be going on. I considered whether to use the button, but decided to just say what I thought instead. Perhaps next time I'll just press the button instead. I feel like we shouldn't really need a referee and hoped some kind of resolution could come on its own, but it's good you are here! It's not a job I would want. I hope your real life stuff is ok.
@ukmarkh (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=34) : I totally see your point. Naming and shaming is not my way, usually. What happened here is that the whole thing has become, more less, a matter of public discourse. And because I've been getting messages about it and I bet many more and wondering, it's not a private issue any more - plus, it's been handled privately several times in the past. After all, sensitive as it may be, one of the basic tenets of justice (not wanting to sound that majestic here :D ) is that it must be public.
@andycadley (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=327) : thanks for the kind words, mate. Truth be told, I guess we're lucky that the community itself is so friendly and civil, at least compared to the drama I've seen elsewhere.
@Munchausen (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=792) : again I agree. TFM *is* a nice guy when he wants to. As for the report button: people shouldn't think of it as ratting out somebody else. There have been many instances where posts or threads have been reported for the most innocent reasons, like forum placement, mistakes etc. Reporting a post just means bringing it to the mods' attention, whatever the reason. I appreciate the "he'll notice in the end" feeling - well, especially for a thread like this it's true -, but who knows, maybe I won't, maybe I misjudge things and I need a dozen people telling me to wake up, maybe I'm away and I don't go online so someone has to ping me to take action - you understand what I mean.
When people act out, such as TFM, I think it's because something is amiss in their lives. Maybe something serious has happened, and he feels he can come on here and escape real life, but then get's himself embroiled in things, and the anger, frustration spills over.
I sense something is wrong in his life, and he's far from happy. I know a few of you are religious, I'm certainly not, but as religious folk, ask yourselves, what would Han Solo the lord do?
;D
I have no right to go into someone's private life. If people want to include others in what is happening outside the forum, that's fine and we'll take it into consideration. And of course we need to afford some common courtesy and tolerance to others because precisely, you never know what happens. But when outside factors influence to such a degree what happens here, then you have to take action. As with any community, really.
Well, I've said my piece, and I respect whatever action you feel is needed.
Great site, great people and long may it continue... May the CPC be with you... Always!
Quote from: Gryzor on 10:29, 17 February 16
ANNOUNCEMENT
Some of you have noticed that I've been fairly absent from this debate. Some of you have PM'd me. Some of you have expressed the opinion that the thread should have been locked (but did not report it).
It's time this ended.
<schnippppp>
I'm actually glad you addressed this dude. I've been in and out of here the last couple of years, but the last few weeks it really doesn't seem like a friendly place anymore. Without mentioning names, there are a few people that are, for the want of a better term, up their own ass.
We're all adults here, if occasional bad language offends you, then I'm sorry, but the internet isn't for you, (especially if you get offended by the word "shit").
I'm not so sure (and I can't believe I'm saying this) a ban for TFM is a positive call, he just needs to tone it down. He seems to think that he can be as offensive and rude and obnoxious to everyone he wants to be, but the second his "work" gets remotely called into question, he goes off crying, and then wonders why he gets no sympathy. But banning TFM? I dunno, it's like the punishment didn't fit the crime.
Last I checked, we were all here for the shared interest of a retro machine that gave us all a lot of fun over several decades, even after commercial releases became available. There shouldn't really be a need for superiority complexes, etc.
Well, the question is simple for me: give others what you would like to receive from them.
Or: don't blame against the work of other people if you don't want to receive the same reply from them.
Or: don't expect good words from someone you told him something not nice.
Or: ...
@Shaun M. Neary (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=728) : edited your second post, deleted your first; you probably didn't read what I wrote in detail :p
A ban is only positive in a very few cases. I've permabanned a couple of users here where the negative of the ban negated the negativity they brought, resulting in... erm, where was I? Oh yes, it was positive in those cases. But, right now, what else could I do? Yeah, "he just needs to tone it down", if you know of any other way to accomplish this, please share. I'm genuinely interested in it.
As for @FloppySoftware (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1162) 's note, yup, that's a universal principle.
By the way, I was informed that TFM changed his signature to the usual crap. Let's hope I don't need to ban him from even logging in after reverting his customary accusations.
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 17:02, 17 February 16
We're all adults here, if occasional bad language offends you, then I'm sorry, but the internet isn't for you, (especially if you get offended by the word "shit").
Well kids use the internet, and kids might see this forum. I don't swear in front of my son, and I appreciate others not doing so too. IMO just because there is swearing on the internet it doesn't mean we need to spread it around.
But that's beside the point. Of course I can deal with bad language, and in some cases maybe it's ok (like oh s**t I plugged 12V into the 5V socket of my CPC, help! :D ). But swearing AT people is offensive, and a pretty good indicator that the conversation's crossed a line that means it's beyond what is acceptable in a forum like this.
Quote from: Munchausen on 18:20, 17 February 16
Well kids use the internet, and kids might see this forum. I don't swear in front of my son, and I appreciate others not doing so too. IMO just because there is swearing on the internet it doesn't mean we need to spread it around.
Fair point, but censorship doesn't exist on the internet in most countries though. Up to the parents what kids view on the net, especially when it comes to discussion forums. You could say that about any forum.
QuoteBut that's beside the point. Of course I can deal with bad language, and in some cases maybe it's ok (like oh s**t I plugged 12V into the 5V socket of my CPC, help! :D ). But swearing AT people is offensive, and a pretty good indicator that the conversation's crossed a line that means it's beyond what is acceptable in a forum like this.
What can I say? TFM brings out the worst in me sometimes. :laugh:
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 17:02, 17 February 16
Last I checked, we were all here for the shared interest of a retro machine that gave us all a lot of fun over several decades, even after commercial releases became available. There shouldn't really be a need for superiority complexes, etc.
I agree with this ^^ :)
Quote from: Gryzor on 17:55, 17 February 16
@Shaun M. Neary (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=728) : edited your second post, deleted your first; you probably didn't read what I wrote in detail :p
A ban is only positive in a very few cases. I've permabanned a couple of users here where the negative of the ban negated the negativity they brought, resulting in... erm, where was I? Oh yes, it was positive in those cases. But, right now, what else could I do? Yeah, "he just needs to tone it down", if you know of any other way to accomplish this, please share. I'm genuinely interested in it.
Don't get me wrong, I wasn't getting on your case about it (I'd like to think you know me better than that to be honest). I dunno, like a three strike rule/warning system or something like that where if someone is being repeatedly rude to forum posters or repeated trolling, then temporary ban, then permanent ban etc. I know forums I used to mod in the past that used vbulletin had a warning/infraction system that could be used and mods could see it in the users profile. Not sure how SMF works though.
Don't mean to back seat mod, just bandying about a suggestion or so.
To be fair, most of the time I really cross paths with TFM, but if he pokes me with a sharp stick, I will poke back.
Oh, we've been through the incremental penalties, believe you me :D First warning, second warning, post moderation, ban for one week, ban for two weeks, ban for a month... and yet here we are.
And of course suggestions are always welcome.
The way things are looking, what with TFM bashing our community every chance he gets when he gets penalised, however (like he did in his sig an hour ago) I'm this close to a permaban. It'd be a pity, but heck, I'm proud of this community I've helped build and I feel I've got the right to get personal and sentimental at some point.
Oh, as for censoring language: of course kids can visit this forum, as they can visit any porn site out there. I'm not going to impose limits within the boundaries of normal adult behavior to accommodate them though. That's indeed up to their parents. And by that, I mean and firmly believe that normal adult behavior is fine for kids too. I will step in (I believe I have, in a very few cases) when language can be extreme without real purpose, or remove gratuitous asses for instance, but that's it. Pixel asses are fine. I think.
Quote from: Gryzor on 19:30, 17 February 16
Oh, we've been through the incremental penalties, believe you me :D First warning, second warning, post moderation, ban for one week, ban for two weeks, ban for a month... and yet here we are.
I'm kinda glad I'm retired from forum modding. As mentioned earlier, it is indeed a thankless job in a lot of cases, on top of that the amount of stress induction is ridiculous!
QuoteThe way things are looking, what with TFM bashing our community every chance he gets when he gets penalised, however (like he did in his sig an hour ago) I'm this close to a permaban. It'd be a pity, but heck, I'm proud of this community I've helped build and I feel I've got the right to get personal and sentimental at some point.
I actually didn't see what he wrote. I tend to only view the Games section of the forum as I know bugger all about hardware, and that end of things doesn't update so frequently. I can only imagine his air of sarcasm as a final dig though.
QuoteOh, as for censoring language: of course kids can visit this forum, as they can visit any porn site out there. I'm not going to impose limits within the boundaries of normal adult behavior to accommodate them though. That's indeed up to their parents. And by that, I mean and firmly believe that normal adult behavior is fine for kids too. I will step in (I believe I have, in a very few cases) when language can be extreme without real purpose, or remove gratuitous asses for instance, but that's it. Pixel asses are fine. I think.
Well this is it, a bit of strong language can often help to get the point across. That being said, if someone is being abusive 24/7 using it, then not cool.
Good to see him banned again. I stayed out of it, until I screwed up with the PM to Gryzor and put his name in the wrong box :doh: But I did think it was a bit more peaceful on here today.
I doubt TFM will ever learn his lesson.
Quote from: ukmarkh on 14:22, 17 February 16
I know, but I suspect the worse thing to do in this type of situation, it to publicly single someone out, and hang them out to dry in front of everyone. It's not good for the individual, or other members of the forum.
Well they can ban me, so I can be more productive. :)
I suspect TFM wants the ban for the same reasons?
Ok, guys, some of you have been using the Shoutbox to express yourselves in a rather... more lax way. Please understand that the Shoutbox falls under the same general rules the whole site does. Insulting others there not only puts me in a very difficult position when TFM (rightly so) reports those posts but is a sneaky thing to do, to. Please don't make me have to moderate that, too.
Quote from: AMSDOS on 08:14, 18 February 16
Well they can ban me, so I can be more productive. :)
I suspect TFM wants the ban for the same reasons?
Sign up to the ISP I use and you'll find you spend much less time on the internet than others! >:(
Bryce.
Dial up ftw?
No, DSL, fast when it's working!
Bryce.
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 20:29, 17 February 16
Well this is it, a bit of strong language can often help to get the point across. That being said, if someone is being abusive 24/7 using it, then not cool.
I actually agree with this, sorry I singled out your post. You probably had a valid point, I didn't read the whole thread but when I saw your post I just thought this is getting out of hand. I didn't report your post because it wasn't yours in particular that was bad, and I didn't actually have an opinion on your message, so in isolation I probably would have thought nothing of it - just the thread as a whole looked like it would give visitors a bad impression of the site. Next time I'm just going to let the mods (well that's just Gryzor I think :S) deal with this sort of thing!
That's a good question, who are the mods?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm frightened to review any of these new games now...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Munchausen on 10:01, 18 February 16
I actually agree with this, sorry I singled out your post. You probably had a valid point, I didn't read the whole thread but when I saw your post I just thought this is getting out of hand. I didn't report your post because it wasn't yours in particular that was bad, and I didn't actually have an opinion on your message, so in isolation I probably would have thought nothing of it - just the thread as a whole looked like it would give visitors a bad impression of the site. Next time I'm just going to let the mods (well that's just Gryzor I think :S) deal with this sort of thing!
I think a lot of people had their fill of that thread at that stage, including yours truly.
... and therefore I will withdraw my attention, efforts and support from CPCWiki and its forum.
My future presence here will be minor. I'm not going in a discussion about it here, but you can PM, email me or contact me in the German forum (of course also in English and French or Spanish since we are world open).
Now, I hope that this place will flourish without me - we will see. Adjeu, TFM.
Tis a sad day... All the best
Quote from: TFM on 17:13, 24 February 16
Now, I hope that this place will flourish without me - we will see. Adjeu, TFM.
I'm sure it will. Not that you actually have to leave, but leopards can't change their spots I guess.
:picard:
oh :(
Too bad that arguments happen :(
Quote from: TFM on 17:13, 24 February 16
Adjeu, TFM.
I won't try to change your mind, but I think it's the wrong decission.
You have interesting things to tell us; it's simply a matter of make a good choice of the words you use.
As a little example, some weeks ago I was wondering about a port of MESCC for FutureOS. But then, you started to say ugly things about MESCC... resulting in a lost opportunity.
A pointless post for a pointless thread... but now with added
groin-thrust!
Finally the french scene / community seems peacefull now...
:laugh:
lets put some soft music to silence the tensions.
Bad Language is pretty much everywhere (not just Internet), but I wouldn't condone death, simply to rid yourself of it.
Off-Topic, but what does one suggest for a compulsive Bad Language Artist?