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Pcw9512 database software

Started by charliegolf, 07:42, 05 June 22

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charliegolf

07:42, 05 June 22
Hi. 
I was wondering if anyone had any images of database software for the 9512 or might know where to find some? I have a 9512 with nonworking floppy drive, only a gotek. Something like locofile? or any other recommendations.

cheers
Chris

charliegolf

#2
08:35, 05 June 22
Awesome, thanks! Ill take a look :D

GeoffB17

#3
13:55, 05 June 22
If you look around, there are two others which are at opposite ends of the spectrum from the ones suggested.

You can find a system called 'CardBox', which is a much simpler system, more like an index card system.   At the other extreme you can find a CP/M version of dBase II, which is more of a programming system which allows you to construct whatever sort of system you need, while still allowing immediate use of the underlying dBase files and indexes.   One benefit of the dBase system is that you should be able to find a LOT of info about it thru the web, either/both from the immediate interactive aspects of the system, and the possibilities of the programming/Build-your-own systems.

Years ago now, I used dBase II, later dBase III+, professionaly, later went over to 'C' but still using the .dbf/.cdx datafiles & indexes.

Geoff

charliegolf

#4
14:20, 05 June 22
Cool thanks. I wondered about dbase and native cp/m stuff. Anything will do but was hoping to find a relational database to run queries, build reports etc.

GeoffB17

#5
14:49, 05 June 22
What do YOU mean by 'Relational Database' - this expression seems to mean different things to different people (and different software producers).

One meaning has the data split between different levels, ie a header record in one file, transactions in another file, components in another, with the relations between the different types of data handled by the system, esp by various indexes.

You can certainly do this with the dBase type of system, where you can construct your data spread over multiple files, with indexes, so that the overall prog can construct your report/query from various data sources as required.  dBase II is simpler than the later systems, but you can still program things that the later systems had more 'built-in'.

The dBase system would allow you to use the interactive 'dot prompt' ot use the system like a BASIC interpreter.  You could create a data file, add records to it, create index files, list/select data, print to screen or printer, of send all/subset to another file, using commands similar to SQL.

Geoff

charliegolf

#6
15:59, 05 June 22
I thought relational dbs were pretty established definition wise. A means to build tables, normalise them, join them using keys and then run queries using some kind of query language as opposed to a flat file system like a spreadsheet or traversing a file system with some kind of proceedural language. I know the concept had been kicking around since the 70s dont know if it made its way to cp/m or not. Something like paradox on dos. 

GeoffB17

#7
17:08, 05 June 22
Well, that's what I thought.

Then, a long time ago, I met a system that went so much further, pretty much scrapping the idea of a 'record' and any sort of 'flat file' that I was used to.   Can't remember what this package was called, but it was intended to run on an IBM mini System /36.   I'd LOVE to know what it was.   I had the manual for a little while, and was trying to make sense of it.   Basically, everything was based on the data items (i.e. the indiv fields), the data files were just lists of indiv 'fields', there were no 'records' except as relationships between sets of indiv fields that would be brought together as needed.  At the time, struck me as wierd but fascinating.

Maybe THAT system was a 'real' or pure 'relational' dbs, and the systems I was/am used to are but pale imitations?

Geoff

charliegolf

#8
17:23, 05 June 22
Cool thanks Geoff. Anything will do really, I just wanted to mess about with a sql like thing that I'm familiar with if such a thing existed for cp/m. I have a copy of sagesoft retreive but think thats for the 8 series and I have no way to get it off the disks anyway. I'll look through the stuff Rob suggested and look for a copy of dbase and have a play. 

robcfg

#9
17:46, 05 June 22

charliegolf

#10
18:26, 05 June 22
Cool, thanks Rob

GeoffB17

#11
18:46, 05 June 22
If you WANT something with a hint of SQL, then you should look at dBase as this is the only thing like that.  When you run the dbase prog, you get a dot prompt.  From that, you can enter a succession of commands such as:

use file index file
find key
list next n
list all for field = "xxxx"
go n
edit

or if you want to get into the programming side of things, you can automate a process by putting a series of such commands, and variables and literal data etc, into a.PRG file and then type:

run prg

or you can create a complete system from such prg files, with screens, and run that as a complete system and never use the dot prompt.

What's the problem regarding the sage thing?  If you've got an image, the 9512/gotek should be able to read the image OK, and prob run the software.  If you've got a CF2 disk, then there should be an 8000COPY prog that lets you copy the data from such a disk to a 9512 disk, or in the case of gotek between images.  Please explain more though?  The only thing I cannot help with is doing anything with an actual CF2DD disk.

Geoff

charliegolf

#12
19:21, 05 June 22
Cool, I'll take a look at dbase. I have sage retrieve on 3" floppys, I've recently got a 8256 with a working floppy drive but dont want to use it for the database so Ill give 8000copy a go to get an image on the 9512. 

GeoffB17

#13
19:58, 05 June 22
If you want me to put dBase onto a CF2DD image, I can do that.  It would be a version already config (screen-wise) for the PCW.   I assume your gotek will work with the .DSK images?

Geoff

charliegolf

#14
20:10, 05 June 22
That would be awesome thanks.! Yes its set for .dsk. Been googling and the language seems similar to basic so looks vaguely familiar. 

charliegolf

#15
20:24, 05 June 22
Just seen sage retrieve in the archive Rob sent, thanks  :D.
Looking forward to mewsing about with all of these 

GeoffB17

#16
23:37, 05 June 22 Last Edit: 00:43, 06 June 22 by GeoffB17
Hello,

Attached should be DBASE.ZIP - this is a CF2DD .DSK image, containing the dBase II system.

This version should be tweaked for the PCW screen codes, so for example the command

@ 20,20 say "**********" should print at the correct place on the screen, however, note that the cursor will then remain in that position for any future display.   This command would usually be used for constructing full screen forms.

At the dot prompt, if you enter help, you should get a succession of screens listing all the dbase II commands.   Some of these commands are more relevant in a SQL context, others may be useful ONLY within a program.

There is a full manual for dBase II available as a PDF on the web, it's actually for a Kaypro version, but it's essentially the same manual, this includes a lot of info about the programming, also use of the system in SQL mode (dBase was around well before SQL, but a lot of SQL seems to be based on dBase??).

Link for manual: http://bitsavers.trailing-edge.com/pdf/nec/APC/819-000100-8001_dBASE_II_Users_Guide_Feb83.pdf
actually for a NEC system, not Kaypro.

Geoff

charliegolf

#17
08:52, 06 June 22
Fabulous, thanks Geoff  :D It will keep me busy for a while
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