A question about Gotek and CP/M in PCW 8512

[djcaye]

Hi everyone. 

I am new here and my English it is not good enough. I have a PCW 9512 with 1 gotek with FlashFloppy 3,5 in A and NO disk in B (well, I have one but it does not work). 

When I put a bootable disk (as a Game, in dsk) works perfectly, but, when I put CP/M or LocoScript dsk start loading but, when it is ending appears a message such like:

Sector 0, track 0 Disc Mark Missing 
Bad Format

It is curious but, when start to load CPM recognize 2 disk units... (I try with several CP/M versions...)

Is in relation with no have a B Disk Unit? or it is another thing that I am not following?

Regards.

[GeoffB17]

Hello.

I don't think this is anything to do with B:  Does not matter what is there.   This is all to do with A:, and/or the image file you're using.

Firstly, your heading says PCW 8512.   The body of the message refers to PCW 9512.  This makes a BIG difference.  Which are you using.

The 8512 will expect to boot from a single sided disk, either an actual disk, or given your reference to a Gotek, then an image of a SS disk.   If you're using a DSDD image (like would be used in a 9512), then this could well cause the error message you get.  So please explain the disk you use to boot, is is a SS (A: type) of a DS (B: type) disk.   There might be other possible answers, but this seems most likely.

Geoff

[djcaye]

Hi; Sorry, I have a 8512 (I am going to edit first message).
I Asume what I need is a SSDisk of CP/M right? I use the ones in this link https://www.habisoft.com/pcwwiki/doku.php?id=en:sistema:indice

Regards.

[djcaye]

**

[GeoffB17]

Hello,

So, it's the 8512, so you need the SS boot disk, one of the set of 4 disks.   The link you give shows a page that offers BOTH the 4 disk set for the 8512, AND a 2 disk set for the 9512 (these are DS disks).

I note that you refer to getting a message recognising the 2 drives present?   Is that so?  That message appears AFTER the system has booted?  The system MIGHT at that point try to read the first sector (the boot sector) again to confirm the disk type, if you get the error message at this point this is odd as the system must have already read the first sector in order to boot the system.   Is there any sort of pause at this time?  If you get the initial screen, what version of the system are you using?

Geoff

[GeoffB17]

You said about editing the first message.  Don't worry, it's all clear now.   Note that the 'Edit' option is available for a couple of hours ONLY, then it goes.  You are now too late to edit your earlier messages?

Geoff

[djcaye]

Hello,

So, it's the 8512, so you need the SS boot disk, one of the set of 4 disks.  The link you give shows a page that offers BOTH the 4 disk set for the 8512, AND a 2 disk set for the 9512 (these are DS disks).

I note that you refer to getting a message recognising the 2 drives present?  Is that so?  That message appears AFTER the system has booted?  The system MIGHT at that point try to read the first sector (the boot sector) again to confirm the disk type, if you get the error message at this point this is odd as the system must have already read the first sector in order to boot the system.  Is there any sort of pause at this time?  If you get the initial screen, what version of the system are you using?

Geoff

Thanks @GeoffB17 

I use the cp/m disk of 8256 (the Spanish row, and also the English and German). I try versions from 1.2 to 1.4

And agree with you, it is strange that Starts loading, show message of what CP/M is and finally set the alert down.

If I push "Cancel" de A> Promt appears but any instruction works (dir, for example, doesn't work...which is odd)

Regards

[GeoffB17]

Aha,

Now you give more detail, or maybe explicitly rather than implied.

This is a different problem to what I initially thought.

CP/M is in fact loading OK.   But there is a problem between the operation of the system software, and how the gotek operates.   We've come across this before.  Or rather variations of it.

The problem is something to do with the drive motor being turned off, and then needing to be on again, and the system checking for this.   The gotek does not provide these signals, so your setup will wait forever.

The usual solution is to use a different version of the system, which is called 1.07H.   Not sure if your problem is exactly this, but it's easy enough to try.   A .DSK has already been uploaded with this.  I'll try and find the link in an earlier message.

Geoff

[GeoffB17]

Hello,

Can't find the image right now, there are ones there somewhere.   Have found the .EMS file though, so that is attached.  Just remove the .EMS file that's on your disk, and replace it with the attached.   Maybe better, just rename the existing on and put the new one there (when un-zipped).

Geoff

[Richard_Lloyd]

@GeoffB17  @djcaye 
Here you go. Geoff, I think this file came from you last year! 
Cheers, Richard.

[GeoffB17]

Thanks Richard,

Now that I know what I called it a year ago, I found it on my machine.  Now that I've got a date as well (Nov 2021) I might be able to find where it's posted here as well?

Geoff

[djcaye]

Thank You So Much!!!

I am going to try and I will told you.

Regards!!!

[djcaye]

Here again...

Sorry, but it no seems to work; Starts Loading, appears:

CP/ Plus - Amstrad consumer electronics plc
v 1.7h, 61 k TPA, 2 disc drives, 368 k Drive M:

But in the fall of the screen the A: track 0, Sector 0 missing address mark - retry, ignore or cancel?

And when I Hit Cancel appears this message:

CP/M error on A: Invalid Drive
BDOS function = 17 file = ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?.fid (I put a space in order to avoid emoticon)

And if I push C (cancel) again appears this new message:

CP/M error on A: Invalid Drive
BDOS function = 15 file = profile.sub



It is very weird, bootable disc (such games) works fine.

EDIT: Do you know it has relation that jumper is set in M0?? (Is how I got it).

Thank you so much!!

[GeoffB17]

Hm,

I don't know about the jumper.  Sounds like it's the one to set the drive as drive 0 (in hardware terms) which will mean for A: in software terms.   So this should be correct.

What's happening - thanks by the way for the detailed description.

The system has loaded.   1.07H then looks for any .FID files (I assume there are none on your setup) but it's confused as to the details of the disk (format/type) so it's giving an error.   When you cancel this, it continues - the next step is to look for any submit files, i.e. profile.sub, and run that.  Again you're getting an error.

I assume the drive light shows indicating access to the A: drive (gotek).

What happens if you do Alt+C (that may be what the 'Cancel' is) again?  Or select another A: type image?

Basically, the system is trying to do what it is supposed to be doing, BUT it's got confused as to the details of the disk, and is failing to read it correctly.  So it's not finding what it's looking for.  But it HAS read the disk correctly in order to find the system file and load it in the first place, to get to this point.  Could have got mixed up between A: and B:?  Do you have a disk in B: at this time?

Prob the last thing the boot process does is to try to read the first sector again, to check the disk specification there, as it would do whenever a disk is changed.

Check that the jumper M0 is on correctly.   The jumper SHOULD be positioned so that it shorts/connects two pins.   Sometimes people re-position them so that they are still there, so they don't get lost, but they are NOT in fact being used so they are NOT shorting the two pins.

Just looked again at the error messages, and these both say that it IS trying to read A:.  But is it REALLY trying to read A:, or B: that it thinks is A:

Geoff

The boot games are usually MUCH simpler that the CP/M system.   The games simply load the software on the disk, and run it.  Usually not looking for other files.  If you have a game that DOES access other files on the disk, does that have any problems?

[djcaye]

Hi again, and again thank you so much!!!! it is very wonderful find people who cares about this things!!!

I tried jumpers as M0 and S0 (and S1 too) but the result is the same.

I do not have B Unit (it is broken) and unplugged. I can change from A> to M> but it doesn't follow any instruction (for example, dir or any other).

About the bootables, I have the complete setlist of games of pcw (finding in this web ; ) ) bootables and as far as a I tried all works fine (I tried more than 30 and I enjoy a lot playing tomaHawk and remind me when I was younger!!!).

I will keep trying anyway. In fact all I want is start to programing in Mallard Basic!!! (I have some memories from my youth and I want to reprog some games and improve since my childhood!!), if I had a Mallard Basic bootable I will be happy!!

Regards.

[GeoffB17]

OK..

Now you remind me, it's the S0 and S1 that select the drives, S0 should have a jumper to select that drive as A:, and the gotek should have no jumper on S1.   The M0 is something else.   Motor?  Not relevant at this stage, although if M0 means no motor signal and the PCW needs a motor signal then there might be a problem but this does not relate to the error messages.

What do we have?  The fact that the games work is by the way just now, although if any of them use CP/M that would be interesting.   Any that do not use CP/M and boot into the game prog directly are using a VERY simplified OS that will bypass the problem in some way.

When you put the disk in to start CP/M, the computer must be reading the first sector, as that is where the boot code it and clearly it is reading that OK.

This code tells the computer to find the .EMS file in the disk directory, and load and run that.  Clearly this happens fine.

You should go back to the previous boot disk, the 1.07h may not be making any difference, and adding an extra complication, so put it to one side for now.

The problems start when the system loads.   For the normal system, the first thing that the loaded system tries to do is to look on A: for PROFILE.SUB.   If it's not there (and an original disk as you've downloaded will not have one yet, as this is optional) it should continue to the A> prompt happily.  Done.   If profile sub is there, it should load this little file and run the instructions in that, which is merely some optional configuration for the system, such as copy some regularly used files to M:.  Worry about that later.  Not important now.  Then you should get the A> prompt.

You mentioned an A> prompt a while back?   Do you get this?   If you get that, then the system is loaded and all is OK?   Your later message refers to accessing A> and M>.   Again, if you can access A> and M> then what's wrong?  What are you feeling you're missing?

If you get the A: prompt, then change the disk selected to the one with Mallard BASIC, and enter BASIC, what happens?

Could yet be something very simple?

Aha - just looked back, and in your message 6 you DO refer to getting the A> prompt!   But, you enter DIR and it doesn't work.   This is prob because the DIR.COM prog is NOT on that disk, it's prob on the System Utilities disk and you need to swap to that.

You should NOT be getting the error messages, and you should NOT need to be pressing the CANCEL button, but if you can get to the A> prompt and things are OK then - we can try to sort out the booting problem later but we'll know that things are not THAT bad.

Geoff

[djcaye]

Hi again!!

The scenario is very close as you tell but, I have some issues:

a) Start loading well, appears CP/M version,.... and stop loading and appears down the screen problem with sector and track where I only can exit using cancel.

b) The prompt A appears, but, the big problem is that I have the prompt A but is as "Dumb", I mean, I can't make anything here, for example, I can't make a DIR with this dsk with cp/m and read what I have in this, also, if I change of track in the gotek usb does not be recognize.. is like if I do not have anything in this track (which is not true).

c) What I think is all the CP/M loading process works (as you tell me) but when the batch of instructions of cp/m (all) must be in the memory that does not load (and I can´t do anything). 

Also, I can swap from A to M, but, any order I write in A the system show the error I refered up, and when I go to M at least, when I write something the system give me back the same order follow with a ?

I know it's complicated..


Regars and thank you so much for your time.

[GeoffB17]

The point at which it first goes wrong is the point at which the system has loaded, and it's now trying to go to the next step, like go to PROFILE,SUB.  But here, it's not reading the disk correctly.  Still don't know why.

If you get the A: prompt, then it OUGHT to be able to find DIR.   I've just checked a standard boot disk, and DIR SHOULD be there, so although the load has completed, and seems to be OK, it's still not reading the disk correctly.

When you say you press 'Cancel' which key(s) is that.   You should press Alt+C - this will try to reset the disk as well.

Ctrl+C should force a reset of the disk, which should also re-read the first sector which has some disk format info in.  This might help.

So, when you get the A> prompt, any command you try gives you an error message - the system is still not reading the disk correctly.  Again, if you get this, try Alt+C.

Can you send me a copy of the .DSK file you're using - just in case it has got damaged?   Although this seems unlikely as it loads OK, apart from the problems.

Up until the problems you get, the system does not know about A: or B:, it's accessing the disk via hardware.  When the system is loaded, then it should know about A:, but seems it doesn't properly.  Something wrong re A: (the link to the hardware), the hardware seems OK.   Maybe something similar re B:, you say there is a problem with B:, what is that?

Nex time you get to the A> prompt, try ALT+C, then DIR, what happens then?

Geoff

[djcaye]

Hi;

The disk I am using is the gotek.dsk that @Richard_Lloyd share hours ago.

I have try Alt C but happens the same.. so I have to get back to push C (cancel) and back the prompt but when I try to use any CP/M order it doesn't work...

Remember, the error came is "A: track 0, Sector 0 missing address mark - retry, ignore or cancel?"

And about the problem with B, the disk unit have a hardware failure (motor does not spin...) and A is also out of service with the same Issue. (is for this that I am using a GOTEK right now).

[GeoffB17]

Yes, could well be that the image the Richard posted is in fact an image that I created and sent to him.   So it was certainly good then.   But is it now?  If something has damaged the start of the boot sector?

The error message re Track 0 Sector 0 implies that the disk is damaged.   At least Track 0 Sector 0.   BUT the system boots from it?  The first 16 bytes of sector 0 is something else, the XDPB info, a sort of template for the disk format.   If that is damaged, and the rest of sector 0 is good, then this could explain the problems you're getting.   But this is unlikely, as disks are written sector at a time, and how would PART of a sector get damaged?

Is the motor not spinning - unusual, or is the motor spinning and the rubber band that links the motor with the actual disk perished - a very common problem?

Geoff

[djcaye]

Hi;

I have try with some USB sticks and some CP/M images in dsk and the result is the same.

Physically, what happens is, when appears CP/M version info and the info of disk units, the gotek stops and de number of track in the display suddenly goes faster to upper numbers (for example goes from 15 to 63 and stops in a higher number...)

But the USB sticks and gotek works perfectly in other computers (CPC 6128)...

What I am start to think is if the model of the gotek is not fully compatible with PCW; I mean, I have a gotek with a board SFRKC30.AT2 and, as far as I know, it has an issue with PCW but, as It can load bootables so, I have no clue of what is happening.

Regards!!

[GeoffB17]

I'm afraid that you've used up most of my knowledge of gotek.   I know that there are variants, but I thought this was more about connectors etc, rather than basic operation.  The FlashFloppy software is more related to the problems you're having, maybe the version of that you got is not suitable.

The A: disks should be 40t only, so the numbers should not be going above that if it is about tracks.  Unless there is something happening re mixing A: qand B:.   A: can ONLY be 40t, as there is 40t on one side.   Some software on a DS disk might work on the basis of counting both side separately so 80t on each side makes 160t overall.

Again, while the process is in very simple 'load' mode, it seems to work fine, but once cp/m takes over, and A: and B: mean something, then something gets confused?  As I've already suggested, the bootable games are something different from CP/M, they are NOT CP/M.

Geoff

[djcaye]

Thank You So Much. I will keep investigating.

Regards!!!

[GeoffB17]

I was just looking up about goteks, and I note there may be a FF.CFG file.   There are lots of things that can be set in this that may affect the operation of the system.

I've never used any of these myself, but you maybe need to look at the options in the file, and see what is set.

There is a page about gotek and ff.cfg on the CPC Wiki (associated with this forum) that you might look at?

Geoff

[djcaye]

Hi!!

allright, I'll check it out!!

Regards!!