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General Category => NC100, NC200, PCW, PDA600 - the rest of the Family! => Topic started by: JonB on 17:13, 28 April 20

Title: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: JonB on 17:13, 28 April 20
..discuss!
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: tjohnson on 17:17, 28 April 20
Maybe everyone is busy pounding the keyboard of their CPC PCW while on furlough from work, too busy to come on the site?
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: Bryce on 17:32, 28 April 20
..discuss!

Your last post before this one was on the 20th of February, a whole 68 days ago. During that time I made 235 posts and several thousand posts were made in total... So (A) Is it really all that quiet? and (B) If so, who exactly is contributing to the quietness?

Bryce.
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: JonB on 19:39, 28 April 20
Argh! Hoisted by my own petard!

 ???

I’m referring to the PCW scene, not the general CPC forums, but hey ho.. you got me there Bryce.  :D

Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: GUNHED on 19:41, 28 April 20
Big Bryceother is watching you.  :o
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: Sykobee (Briggsy) on 19:43, 28 April 20
TBH I haven't had time (TBRH or inclination) to do much with my NC200... :/
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: Bryce on 19:44, 28 April 20
Argh! Hoisted by my own petard!

 ???

I’m referring to the PCW scene, not the general CPC forums, but hey ho.. you got me there Bryce.  :D

For those who never understood the phrase "pwnd"... That was it :D

Regarding the PCW scene, I don't really belong to it, so I can't comment on the level of activity.


Bryce.
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: tjohnson on 22:29, 28 April 20
Would it be bad to say my pcw8512 is used as a door stop at they moment?
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: Bryce on 23:07, 28 April 20
Would it be bad to say my pcw8512 is used as a door stop at they moment?

Now you have two reasons why you have to stay at home. I'm sure there are some PCW fanatics out there that would beat you up for that comment! :D

Bryce.
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: GUNHED on 19:55, 29 April 20
Would it be bad to say my pcw8512 is used as a door stop at they moment?
Well, that's probably the most beautiful door in the country.
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: TynH on 13:32, 30 April 20
Currently fighting a persistent infection and/or allergic reaction so unfortunately haven’t been able to spend a lot of time at my desk. Was however going to write a rather lengthy post about the PCW and what to “use” it for online.
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: 1024MAK on 18:08, 30 April 20
Would it be bad to say my pcw8512 is used as a door stop at they moment?
Oi! Displacing a poor old ZX81 out of a job and making him redundant :o
As if the world does not already have enough troubles...  :(

 :laugh:

Mark
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: mr.freeze on 20:22, 03 May 20
I'm experimenting with a P-code compiler to Z80 for CP/M for the past week. I've only implemented 35 instructions out of +/- 150. It compiles a Pascal program approximating Pi (spigot algorithm of Rabinovitz and Wagon) running at the same speed as the same program compiled with Turbo Pascal 3. 60s for 100 digits. With Euclidian division routines (16/16 and 16/8).
When I replace those routines by a naïve division routine by successive substractions it computes Pi in 50s for 100 digits ! The quotient never exceeding 18 must be the explanation of this 20% boost.
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: TynH on 20:41, 03 May 20
Pi is exactly three!

that should speed things up even more.  ;D
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: Bryce on 21:03, 03 May 20
Pi is exactly three!

that should speed things up even more.  ;D

I think you'll find that that's an extreme rounding off of Pi. You need at least 9 digits after the decimal point to be even slightly accurate.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: mr.freeze on 21:08, 03 May 20
I think he was joking :-) You must be a robot :-)
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: Bryce on 21:56, 03 May 20
I think he was joking :-) You must be a robot :-)

Doh! Up to now I've passed the Turing test with flying colours, only to be outed by you!!!

Bryce.
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: remax on 22:35, 03 May 20
Pi is exactly three!

that should speed things up even more.  ;D


Pi is exactly 3.2 and that's by law !


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill)
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: Bryce on 09:59, 04 May 20
Goodwins explanation is good enough for me. Anyone out there need a spare calculator button? I have a several pi buttons I no longer need.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: TynH on 13:01, 04 May 20

Making room for τ instead? Great, because Tau is awesome!
https://tauday.com/tau-manifesto (https://tauday.com/tau-manifesto)


Shock, horror: π is wrong!

http://www.math.utah.edu/%7Epalais/pi.pdf (http://www.math.utah.edu/%7Epalais/pi.pdf)
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: Bryce on 14:01, 04 May 20
Tau is of course a nicer number, it's just missing the 1 in the middle 6(1)28 :)

Bryce.
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: remax on 20:06, 04 May 20
Tau is of course a nicer number, it's just missing the 1 in the middle 6(1)28 :)

Bryce.


It has an infinity of 6128 in it though (and even a complete dump of its rom).
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: GUNHED on 22:35, 04 May 20
Quote
I think you'll find that that's an extreme rounding off of Pi. You need at least 9 digits after the decimal point to be even slightly accurate.
I love if somebody tells "slightly accurate" - that's like a bit pregnant.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: Bryce on 22:38, 04 May 20
I love if somebody tells "slightly accurate" - that's like a bit pregnant.  :laugh:

Yes, I even laugh myself when I catch myself saying that. Ok, it wasn't slightly accurate, it was almost correct! :D

Bryce.
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: GUNHED on 22:40, 04 May 20
"almost correct" is what makes biological life superior to computer life. One could call it also automatic error correcting fuzzy logic.  ;) :)
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: Bryce on 00:34, 05 May 20
Yes, but actually, accuracy isn't black and white either. Accuracy should always have a tolerance, ie: you usually speak of "accurate to x%" or when it comes to electrical measurements "accurate to x% plus x counts". So it's not really the "pregnant / not pregnant" situation.

In your profession, if you were to measure a temperature the result could be 22.57°C and some may call that accurate, but for someone else without knowing what number comes after the 7 means that it's not accurate.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: GUNHED on 00:49, 05 May 20
How easy are bits and bytes then.  :)
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: Bryce on 09:35, 05 May 20
Relatively easy. :D (and sort of accurate)

Bryce.
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: ComSoft6128 on 10:09, 05 May 20
Why am I getting the impression that I'm watching a T-Rex and a Raptor circling each other here?  ;)
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: GUNHED on 14:19, 05 May 20
A T-Rex? That was a great hardware CPC emulator, sadly due to crazy EU laws it's not available in EU any longer.


Raptor? Do you mean the C-One?  :laugh:
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: mr.freeze on 19:12, 10 May 20
Doh! Up to now I've passed the Turing test with flying colours, only to be outed by you!!!

Bryce.
I know you weakness now, fear me.
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: mr.freeze on 19:17, 10 May 20
Nobody interested by a Pascal cross-compiler for Z80 ?
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: reidrac on 20:14, 10 May 20
That ship sailed for me late 90s when I decided to learn C instead of Pascal :)
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: JonB on 20:38, 10 May 20
Pascal sux.

C rocks.

Z80 pwns all.

Nuff said.
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: mr.freeze on 20:45, 10 May 20
I think programs written in Pascal are prettier than those written in C. And don't talk me about Object Pascal.

I switched to C++ in the meantime but I still admire the beauty of well written Pascal programs.
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: mr.freeze on 22:04, 10 May 20
So, If that's the way it is, I will focus my work first on the 8086 DOS version as I know it best while listening Wooden Ships by CSNY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q3j-i7GLr0).
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: JonB on 14:09, 12 May 20
We all have our favourite programming language(s).. My view is that it is possible to write horrible looking code in any language, and that includes Pascal and C / C++. The trick with it is to lay it out consistently, with good commentary. A good, clearly commented piece of code draws you in; whereas a crappy ill commented badly laid out program tends to repel. Design it properly and keep it simple. (Do I really need to use that obscure language feature or design pattern, or am I just trying to look clever?) And who knows, it might be you maintaining it a few years after writing - as happened to me several times during my programming career..
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: GUNHED on 14:52, 12 May 20
Nobody interested by a Pascal cross-compiler for Z80 ?
Pascal, maybe yes, but cross compiler no. Do it on the target hardware.  :)
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: mr.freeze on 17:36, 17 May 20
Pascal, maybe yes, but cross compiler no. Do it on the target hardware.  :)
I intended to test the compiler by compiling it by itself, targeting an emulator or my NC100 and do the same on the target machine :-)

The Z80 version of Pascal-P4, should fit in 80K, I think. 32K will be needed for self-compilation (stack+heap+data). So this should be possible on a machine with 128K of free RAM. But don't expect compilation speed higher than 10 lines by seconds.
I'm working on the 8086 version and also busy decompiling a 26 year old program I wrote in TP7 of which I lost the source code.



Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: mr.freeze on 17:41, 17 May 20
We all have our favourite programming language(s).. My view is that it is possible to write horrible looking code in any language, and that includes Pascal and C / C++. The trick with it is to lay it out consistently, with good commentary. A good, clearly commented piece of code draws you in; whereas a crappy ill commented badly laid out program tends to repel. Design it properly and keep it simple. (Do I really need to use that obscure language feature or design pattern, or am I just trying to look clever?) And who knows, it might be you maintaining it a few years after writing - as happened to me several times during my programming career..
I couldn't agree more. But I think a beautiful program written in Pascal is prettier than one written in C :-P
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: GUNHED on 20:06, 17 May 20
Well, if compiling time is slow it doesn't kill. The first thing is to make it working. After that it can be optimized. And I'm sure the Z80 can be more or less as quick as an 8086.  :)
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: tjohnson on 12:14, 18 May 20
I learnt Turbo Pascal at college in the early 90s and enjoyed it as a language, it just seemed to fit the way my mind worked or maybe it was just the way it was taught.  It's a highly structured language so maybe that was part of it.
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: AMSDOS on 09:27, 20 May 20
Nobody interested by a Pascal cross-compiler for Z80 ?


I fear it's a lot of work, just to satisify a small group.  >:( 


Part of my reason for start writing a small BASIC-like language, was to throw in some of the useful commands and to look at the difficult though important core ingredients (WHILE, IF, FOR, LET) of the language.
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: mr.freeze on 17:55, 20 May 20
I fear it's a lot of work, just to satisify a small group.  >:( 
Actually, I'm writing a P-code to Z80 compiler, which is easier than writing a compiler for a high-level language from scratch. The P-code is generated by Pascal-P4 described at https://homepages.cwi.nl/~steven/pascal/. I hope to provide you with an acceptable release soon. Currently, the prototype is written mainly in Sed and Awk and it's quite trashy, so I need to rewrite it cleanly, in Pascal, while I'm ahead.

I've ported Pascal-P4 to Free Pascal and Delphi a few years ago and published my work on the defunct Berlios. The project is available on Github : https://github.com/BackupTheBerlios/pp4fpc but I don't have any control on it.
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: AMSDOS on 13:33, 24 May 20
I get warnings from that homepages link that the Certificate was written by someone not to be trusted :o
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: mr.freeze on 17:57, 24 May 20
I get warnings from that homepages link that the Certificate was written by someone not to be trusted :o

Check if your browser and OS are up to date. Comodo/Setcigo has changed its SSL root certificate a year ago or so, it could be that.

Pascal-S (http://standardpascal.org/pascals.html) would deserve a look. A compiler/interpreter for a subset of Pascal, easier to read than Pascal-P. This could be a good starting point for a compiler written entirely in Z80, which would be much faster and more compact.
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: Bryce on 22:02, 24 May 20
I got that error recently when my PC clock wasn't synced properly.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: AMSDOS on 03:22, 25 May 20
Check if your browser and OS are up to date. Comodo/Setcigo has changed its SSL root certificate a year ago or so, it could be that.

Pascal-S (http://standardpascal.org/pascals.html) would deserve a look. A compiler/interpreter for a subset of Pascal, easier to read than Pascal-P. This could be a good starting point for a compiler written entirely in Z80, which would be much faster and more compact.


Seems to be fine on my phone, so suspect the computer is misinforming me. Trouble is it's an old computer and I still regularly use the CD-ROM on it, but I was warned last year that I'd need to upgrade soon, but all the new computers don't have the CD-ROM!!
Title: Re: Cor. It's a bit quiet in here innit..?
Post by: mr.freeze on 18:18, 29 May 20

Seems to be fine on my phone, so suspect the computer is misinforming me. Trouble is it's an old computer and I still regularly use the CD-ROM on it, but I was warned last year that I'd need to upgrade soon, but all the new computers don't have the CD-ROM!!
My main computer is a used Thinkpad T430 from 2012 with a 3rd gen i5 bought a year ago for nothing, it has an integrated DVD writer and, it is faster than my i3 4th gen Asus bought 4 years ago and largely suits my needs. the Intel HD4000 GPU is sufficient for Netflix also.