Hi good afternoon.
where can you find the Graphics extension GSX on the dsk or where can you find it for the pcw?
i would like to try something with turbo pascal in graphics for pcw 8512.
thank you
greeting
Hello,
Did I ask you a while back if you had the manuals for the PCW (8256/8512)? I'm not sure if you replied.
Checking my CP/M manual pages 60 etc I note the following.
The GSX system is on side 4 of the system disks, and comprises:
GSX.SYS, ASSIGN.SYS, GENGRAF.COM, DDSCREEN,PRL, DDFXLR8.PRL, DDFXR8.PRL, DDHP7470.PRL (this last one may be on Side 3). GSX needs to access them all to run fully, but some of the .PRL files are more to do with printers.
I'm sure we can find some info on the web for the actuality of installing/setup. Incl something re Turbo Pascal. There may be something in the HiSoft C I have, also I have the Digital Research DR Draw package here which certainly uses GSX, and I had that all working fine a LONG time ago.
I'll remind you that I mentioned the WalBASIC system which installs a graphics extension onto Mallard Basic which covers dots/points, lines, but GSX has facilities for solid fills as well, it all depends on just what you want to do.
Geoff
thank you I found the walbasic.
it's not what i'm looking for in graphics.
thanks for the info for the gsx.
let's see if I can get it to work with pascal.
the graphics for the pcw are always without source code.
i want to do some things myself.
greeting
There's a package here (attached) for a game for the PCW using Turbo Pascal and GSX. You may find this useful?
The .zip file contains the files for the game, and GSX, but does not include the files for Turbo Pascal (I think there is a CP/M version 3 about, I may even have a copy somewhere here but I've not used it). The .zip also includes a .DSK file with most of the same stuff in.
All done by someone in Germany?
Any help?
Geoff
I've checked now, and I do have a copy of CP/M Turbo Pascal 3. I think that the version I have is already configured for the PCW, but the files include TINST which is the installation process.
I referred above to GSX including fill patterns, I'm not sure that this is the case. I think that the original screen driver DDSCREEN.PRL as supplied with the early PCWs did NOT support this, it was a VERY cut down version. However, the subsequent release of the DR DRAW package included another version of this driver, and this version maybe DID support fill patterns? I'm sure I remember references to using the version supplied with DR-DRAW rather than the version originally supplied by Amstrad. Over the years, this later version has become widely available and may be the one included on later PCW disks. Or is my memory playing tricks on me again??
Geoff
thanks for the information.
This game cheese box is specially adapted and cannot be used for normal use.
my turbo pascal also has errors when compiling.
I have the TP_301A.ZIP
somehow the TP_301A does not fit the pcw.
what kind of TP do you have?
greeting
No, my memory seems OK.
I've still got my original 1986 1.4 system disks, and when I check them the DDSCREEN.PRL file is only 4k. The later version is now 6k, and using DUMP there is clearly more code in the file.
So if you're doing anything with GSX make sure you use the later (bigger) version of this file.
Geoff
Regarding the TP system, I've got the same version, so it may be the same.
I got this as a zipped .DSK image file. The .zip file was 68,914 bytes. The .DSK image file was 204,544 bytes. I then loaded the image into the Joyce emulator and copied all the files off, and transferred to my (real) PCW, but I still have the original files downloaded. This version I remember was pre-installed for a MicroBee computer, and I reinstalled for a PCW.
When you say it produces errors, what do you mean. Does the program actually 'crash', or is the compile process giving errors (which may mean that the code is faulty. What do the wrrors actually say?
Whan you say that the game 'cannot be used for normal use' what do you mean?
Geoff
Regarding the game, I've just loaded the image into Joyce and it seems to play perfectly OK, well, computer vs computer. Not much idea what's happening, but the computer beats the computer OK!!
Maybe you've not run BOTH the install routines. You need to do them BOTH, the one for the PCW and the one for GSX on the PCW. The latter in particular copies the overlays and other files (?) to M: where they are expected at run-time. The second one also starts the game prog. If you do the second one first, then the game prog will start without the GSX assign.sys being correct?
The game uses the later (larger) DDSCREEN.PRL, and the fill function certainly works here.
Geoff
I cannot read and divide the 204,544 with managedsk.
there are 2 dsk of the cheese box, a version with a finished com file and one with the source code.
I still don't know which files belong together so that everything works together.
the GSX is specially designed for the cheese box and cannot be used for other programs.
i would also like to use the GSX for my own program.
the finished cheese box game doesn't work if I want to recompile the source code.
greeting
-------------------------------
Basically the game should also run with other CP/M machines, if a suitable
GSX-screen-driver is available. The ASSIGN,SYS file must be adapted.
Perhaps the keys must be changed with SETKEYS.
-------------------------------
hello, can you please put together a normal dsk for me with tp and a functional GSX and a source program?
with which program can you please generate a cf2dd with read and write?
thank you.
greeting
Hello,
The .DSK that you have is an 'extended' image format, and it's of a CPC disk format type (not a normal PCW format) although the PCW should know about this format and normally reads it OK. I have regularly done so with my PCW, and I know that the Joyce emulator will do so, although it helps for it to be told so explicitly as sometimes it can struggle.
I would use Joyce to create the .DSK file you request. I have blank CF2DD images. I would collect the files required onto my PC into a directory that Joyce can see, go into Joyce, load the blank image as B:, then copy the files from (for example) E: to B: using the NSWP utility which allows for tag select of files for bulk copying. I cannot create a CF2DD image on my PCW as I don't have such a B: drive, I can create a CF2 image using John Elliotts DU54 software.
I'll need to use the version of Turbo Pascal that I have. I have no idea why the version you have is giving problems, but this could easily be something OTHER than the actual files being faulty.
Geoff
thanks for the information.
can you then please generate a cf2 image?
greeting
Hello,
Why now requesting a CF2 image? What's the problem with the CF2DD image?
I'm not sure yet, I'm still checking all the bits, but I think you'll need the space on a CF2DD image for all the files you requested. Doing it that way is no problem for me.
Depending on what you want to do, there's a MUCH bigger problem. I know nothing about Turbo Pascal, or Pascal generally, but it seems to me that the GSXKK.PAS source file provided is only a tiny bit of what you'd need to regenerate the program. The actual code does not cover very much of the function of the game. The .PAS file seems to have a set of includes (or whatever Pascal calls them) including a GSXTURBO.LIB which we do not have and a number of .PAS files which we do not have that may be overlays. I suspect that if you try to compile the .PAS file we have you will get errors regarding the missing files - is this the sort of error that you reported? These missing files will then lead on to all sorts of other error messages including unresolved links etc (I'm using terms that would apply to other compilers I use which might use a different wording in TP). I'm not sure what the point of giving the .PAS file that IS there will be. As well as this, there should be some sort of directive file (a 'MAKE' file or whatever) to define how the overlays should be created (i.e. which source module etc goes into which overlay file) as there are more overlay files noted than there are overlays I'd guess that the bulk of the code in the .LIB file needs to be in the root (.COM) file but this assumes the overlays are overlay modules rather than CHAIN modules that REPLACE the root module.
I'm pretty sure that the source of the game is on this forum, the game has been offered here directly a year or more ago, maybe you should try and contact him directly to see if he can help further?
See this link:
https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/nc100-nc200-pcw-pda600/kasekastchen-preview-on-another-gift-to-joyce-for-thirtieth-birthday/
Geoff
Further to other remarks, please try the attached image (zipped).
This .DSK file is a standard PCW image, and is not 'extended', so this may work better on your setup.
When the disk is active, first do
SUBMIT PCWINST
then
SUBMIT GSXKKPCW
This latter involves some copy of files to M:, ensure you have some drive M: (RAM-disk) available, even if just 200k or so
This may at least tell us where your problems are coming from.
Geoff
Thanks for your help.
it is probably not that easy to play with the roller-ram.
greeting
Hello,
You said:
"It's probably not that easy to play with the roller-ram"
Er, what's that got to do with anything that we've been discussing up to now? This is the first time that roller ram has been mentioned, I think. A strange thing to say so 'out of the blue'!!
As I understand it, the roller ram makes it quite easy to achieve certain effects, and do certain things with the screen. If you need to do those certain things, then great. But it's not any sort of 'magic bullet', and could well be no help at all for other things.
Has that .DSK file I sent been any help re getting the game to work?
Some time ago, I sent you the big print BASIC program, have you tried that? Did I say that I did a disassembly of the assm code used there, I think I've got it as a file somewhere, if you want to see it. That's all about manipulating the screen ram.
Geoff
thanks for your dsk.
but I didn't manage to compile the source code.
please refer : GSXKK_code.zip
maybe you can do it.
I got the basic program from you.
i can't decipher the inline code for the asm
greeting
Hello,
Please refer to Reply #13 in this thread, a day or two ago, where I said that the .PAS file was NOT the complete code, so I'm not surprised you could not compile it. Check the link there, and maybe contact the guy in Germany who wrote the game.
I'll not be able to do anything myself, there's so much missing.
If you want to make sense of the asm for Big Print I need to find the files I had from YEARS ago. I still have the printout of the disassembly of the loaded code (it's not 'inline') but I can't find the file of that yet. I may need to do it again? I do have a copy of the original magazine article, I may be able to copy you that, or find you a link to it, it may be on the web already.
Found it. The published article, 1987, is here:
https://paulclewssite.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/computing-with-the-amstrad-vol-3-no-4-april-1987.pdf (https://paulclewssite.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/computing-with-the-amstrad-vol-3-no-4-april-1987.pdf)
Page 27/28 in the PDF
The article includes asm listings for the machine code. Is this a help?
I'm still not sure if your problems are due to you doing something not quite right, or problems with the environment you're using (CP/M Box ?) or something else.
Geoff
Hi good afternoon.
it won't work with the pascal I'm looking for a healthy solution with the :
CBASIC Compiler (CB80) .
who knows, please, where there is a help for compiling. where can I get help for the program?
the content of the dsk makes a good impression.
I just don't know how it works: complieren-link etc.
maybe someone of you has a pdf or text description?
thank you.
greeting
Hello,
If it's any use for you, I have the CBASIC compiler, and I've used it a lot. Business type systems, CP/M utilities, games. It's not always as fast as one might like, but with a bit of care, i.e. using as many INT type numbers as possible, it works pretty well. A few years back, I was even using the PC version (CB86) to maintain some serious business systems for someone in the US (Baltimore), the CB80 manual I've got was fine.
The compile/link process is fairly standard re a lot of other compilers.
I've never had need to do so, but should be possible to create machine code add-ins and link that in, incl do something with GSX if need be. The only thing I'm not so sure about would be loading something at a specific place in RAM so that you can do the Bank Switch, I'd need to read up on that.
Why did you decide that Pascal (or just TP?) is not going to work. I've tended to find that you can do pretty much anything you like with whichever language you choose, it's just that some languages are more helpful for specific tasks, and less helpful for others. As you get more familiar with the quirks of a specific language, the more you can achieve with it.
I've got the full manual for GSX, I'll see if it says anything about linking with CBASIC?
Geoff
thanks for the information.
it would be nice if you could give me a few tips where you can find something to read for the cbasic and the cbasic itself. I'm looking for compilers and links, etc. for it. maybe you can please write something about it if there is nothing to read. small demo programs to learn are always important to me.
i always noticed with the turbo pascal that it doesn't work here and there. for example the cheese box. the program in pascal is programmed so mysteriously that there is no straight way to go. it is the same with other pascal programs for the pcw.
greeting
Hello,
Not sure what you mean. CBASIC Compiler (CB80) _is_ the compiler, which creates a free standing .COM file. However, there is a CBASIC (sort of) interpreter as well, which creates a tokenised semi compiled prog that requires a 'run-time' module to run, but this I think is NOT CB80. If you have a .DSK image for CB80, then you should have the 'compiler', and the files on the disk should include CB80 and it's overlays (it's a multi-pass compile process) and also LK80 which is the linker and some other things. I take it that you do NOT have the manuals?
I was looking last night at my manuals, and CB80 will be a problem if you're hoping to do the sort of things you were asking about before. CB80 will need to use ALL the RAM available on the computer, there is no facility as in MALLARD to place a barrier to reserve/protect a block of RAM above a certain point for loading any code to, say, swap banks. You can create Assembly modules, and use RMAC to compile them to REL files (compatible with .REL files created by CB80) but it's not easy (and may not be practical) to create such modules go load to specific places in RAM (as needed for Bank switching). This may however be possible using .RSX programs, but these may be a lot more complex. The GSX.SYS file loads as a RSX I believe.
Anyway, I'm not sure that CB80 will help you, it's certainly NOT aimed at graphics progs, or games, much more towards business applics and databases.
But then, I still don't know exactly what you're trying to do. If I understood more then I could help more.
Geoff
where can I find a complete dsk from cb80?
thank you.
greeting
Hello,
I don't know where you can get a complete CB80, but you'd really need the manual to make proper use of it.
Where did you get what you have from, I'll have a look at that and see what it actually is/what's missing?
Geoff
Hello,
Further to my last message, I have found a .ZIP file with the complete CB80 system on it, and I've checked the contents of the disk and everything is there, although there are some 'extras' that I don't have and this system would seem to be a slightly later version that the one I got back 198?. Nothing major.
The disk files include the various bits for using GSX, incl various BAS files about this. The system files are NOT there, but they would be on your system disks?
Also, I didn't have it to hand before, but I wondered, and did some digging in the garage and found the original box for CB80 are there was a third manual for the GSX system hidden away there. Safe, but burried!
If you were going to try to do much with CB and GSX you would need the manuals. Some bits of the language are a little different from other BASICs.
I'd repeat though, I'm not sure that GSX is really appropriate for any sort of gaming or animation. Just too clumsy, and slow. The WALBASIC system could well be better, even though not ideal.
A message or two ago you made some comments about Pascal. I don't know what you know about Pascal, but the language was invented to support someone's ideas about 'structured programming', and Pascal very much reflects his ideas about sp. Those people who embrace sp like Pascal. Myself, I've always thought that far too much fuss is made about sp, I'm sure you can write bad code using Pascal, and you CAN write a well structured prog using BASIC! But yes, with Pascal, it can be confusing to find the 'start' of the program at the end of the code, and the code generally not following anything like the logic of the software, it's just sp 'for the hell of it'?
Geoff
Hello.
here I found cb80 and cbas2:
http://www.classiccmp.org/cpmarchives/cpm/Software/rlee/C/ (http://www.classiccmp.org/cpmarchives/cpm/Software/rlee/C/)
demo:
---------------------
integer limit, count, prime, i, k
limit = 1000
dim flag%(limit)
print "*** ERATO in CBASIC / CB80 ***"
print " --- Start ---"
count = 0
for i = 0 to limit :flag%(i) = 1 :next
for i = 0 to limit
if flag%(i) = 1 then \
prime = i + i + 3 :\
count = count + 1 :\
k = i + prime :\
while k <= limit :\
flag%(k)=0 :\
k = k + prime :\
wend
next
print count;"PRIMZAHLEN errechnet"
--------------------------
cbas2 prim
run prim
slow, works as basic
cb80 prim
lk80 prim
prim.com
Super fast.
Yes, the archive file I found had CBAS2.COM and CRUN2.COM. On the basis of your info, CBAS2 is a semi compiler which creates a tokenised version which can then be run using the runtime module CRUN2. Doing the full compile using CB80 and LK80 produces a fully compiled version. These two progs (CBAS2 and CRUN2)were NOT included in the original CB80 I bought back in 198?
Geoff
this turbo pascal didn't leave me any peace either. from here I have a turb pascal which works:
http://www.classiccmp.org/cpmarchives/cpm/Software/rlee/B/BORLAND/
the graphic works without.
http://www.joyce.de/software/soft.htm (http://www.joyce.de/software/soft.htm)
graphic without gsx
greeting
Yes, you could prob do the same with the WALBASIC, but I assume a lot slower. You don't need GSX.
GSX is - as I think I said before - more aimed at 'business' systems'. The main purpose of GSX is to allow the same code to woek on different machine, and to allow the same code to produce similar results using screen, different printers, plotter, etc.
Achieving this 'wastes' a lot of code, and a lot of system resources.
The WALBASIC will work ONLY for the PCW screen. I don't think it will print, I don't think it will work on the CPC machines.
The better games for the PCW don't even use CP/M, They have their own .EMS (System) prog which loads instead, they create their own graphics system which allows whatever they want/need. The normal PCW has I think the one block of screen memory, better systems may use two blocks of screen RAM so that one screen image is being constructed while the other is displaying, when the new screen is ready the images are swapped.
What you really need is 'The PCW Graphics Toolkit' - only problem is no-one got around to creating this! As far as I know. Most of the folks buting the PCW were interested in the 'serious' software. Most of the fancier games were originally written for other machines, and the conversion is easier that starting from scratch.
Batman and 'Head over Heels' are good examples of what can be done if you totally bypass CP/M. Habi did a PacMania game a couple years ago which also loads his own system. The 3D-Clock-Chess game uses CP/M to load, then sets up it's own graphics system, but it returns to CP/M on exit. Batman & HoverH could do it this way too, I've got HoverH but it's a long time since I last ran it.
It all depends on what you hope to achieve.
Geoff
It is difficult to find something for the pcw to do something with graphics. i liked this mallard-80 best.
now try to do something in TP. after I found a working TP with graphics without gsx.
greeting
If you can find this it might be of interest:
https://cpcrulez.fr/applications_coding-graphics-the_universe_and_everything_on_pcw_8256-8512_v2.htm (https://cpcrulez.fr/applications_coding-graphics-the_universe_and_everything_on_pcw_8256-8512_v2.htm)
http://www.fvempel.nl/manuals/allyou.pdf
Hm, interesting. So there is at least one 'Graphics Toolkit' about. I had a quick search, but no sign of anything to download, or more details.
However, this reminds me that I have another BASIC system, something called ExBASIC. There was something posted on the forum a while back. I've had a play with this, and it works, although I had a problem initially because it works with an old version of BASIC.COM ONLY, but once John Elliott advised of this, then things went OK.
This variant works using a 'patched' (modified) version of BASIC.COM, and the ExBASIC prog applies this patch and then runs BASIC. The extra functions operate via the PRINT command. The useful functions include MOVE, DRAW, PLOT very similar to WalBASIC but there are extra ones relating to STORE and RESTORE which save a block of screen and allow it to be restored., useful for graphics. Other functions seem to be not so useful, or for things that can be done by normal methods.
It may be that this variant might be more useful for your purposes (whatever they are)?
The package includes some demo progs, and some image files which can be displayed within the process. Oh, it'll print large text, and even upside-down text! If that's what you need.
Geoff
Hello,
In case you're interested, I attach a .dsk image of the ExBASIC package.
You need to run the EXBASIC prog, this will load then patch the BASIC.COM and proceed from there. Check the example progs, and the READ.ME
The process will work ONLY with version 1.29 or BASIC.COM, which you MIGHT have already. It does NOT seem to make a permanent change to this file. It seems NOT to work with later versions of BASIC.COM.
Geoff
Hi Geoff,
The PCWWiki comes to the rescue! ;D
http://www.habisoft.com/pcwwiki/doku.php?id=es:aplicaciones:graphics_universe
hello, graphic things are coming to light here.
That's really great.
greeting
Yes, who knows what's hiding in the undergrowth!
This new Graphics etc package is covering pretty much the same ground as the other two packages, it's not something that I'm THAT interested in, although I'll have a little play. It's really up to you to see which of the systems would be most convenient to achieve whatever it is that you hope to do.
The latest one for example is the only one to suggest explicit provision for 'sprites'.
Geoff
As my friend Robcfg says, PCWWiki to the rescue:
http://www.habisoft.com/pcwwiki/doku.php?id=es:aplicaciones:exbasic_nabitchi (http://www.habisoft.com/pcwwiki/doku.php?id=es:aplicaciones:exbasic_nabitchi)
http://www.habisoft.com/pcwwiki/doku.php?id=es:aplicaciones:graphics_universe (http://www.habisoft.com/pcwwiki/doku.php?id=es:aplicaciones:graphics_universe)
We have some other graphic program more. If a specific one is needed, we can search for it. Hopefully they help you. In terms of graphics is what we have published for now.
I have basic (Mallard-80) and exbasic in m:
exbasic hangs, basic does not start.
greeting
Hello,
I take it that this is the image that I attached for you, and you have copied the files on that image to M:?
The result you describe was one of the results that I had when I was using the wrong version of BASIC.COM. It MUST be version 1.29 (as reported when BASIC starts up.
If you run BASIC directly, without using EXBASIC first, does BASIC report this version, and does BASIC work normally? Does it work correctly if you use the disk image as A:?
Geoff
Hello,
Just to be sure, I've put the image I posted into Joyce.
I've checked that BASIC runs correctly when started normally. And it IS the correct version 1.29.
I then ran a couple of the demo progs, and they worked fine.
I then copied the files from A: to M:, and repeated, and everything worked fine on M:.
So, it must be something you've done? Or CP/M-Box doesn't like the CPCEMU image, but I take it that the files copied normally, and the files on M: are the same size as the files on A:.
Geoff
Hmm??
Further to the above, I fired up CP/M Box, loaded the same disk image into that as A:, and worked fine there. Copied the main files to M: (M: isn't big enough for all the disk) and again, all worked fine.
You must have done something??
Geoff
Hi, Thank You.
it works now.
the exbasic is too encapsulated for me.
there's not much you can do with it.
I don't like it that much.
greeting
Hm, well, setting (or unsetting) a single pixel on the screen is the lowest level action you can get, so that cannot be too encapsulated. Yes, it is a problem that the action of setting each pixel always includes all the overhead of swapping banks, and displaying the screen, when really it would be better to be able to set up things once, set all the pixels of your character or image (a sprite ?), then display the complete image and then swap back banks. Maybe that's what the newer system which DOES refer to sprites can do?
Even the simplest animation on a computer screen involves a LOT of work.
Oh, did you work out what was causing the problem with EXBASIC. It's always useful to know what the trouble was, to help others avoid it in the future!
Geoff
I reinstalled exbasic then started it.
I didn't look for the error any further.
greeting
Quote from: funkheld on 22:59, 14 September 20
this turbo pascal didn't leave me any peace either. from here I have a turb pascal which works:
http://www.classiccmp.org/cpmarchives/cpm/Software/rlee/B/BORLAND/ (http://www.classiccmp.org/cpmarchives/cpm/Software/rlee/B/BORLAND/)
the graphic works without.
http://www.joyce.de/software/soft.htm (http://www.joyce.de/software/soft.htm)
graphic without gsx
greeting
Hi! Can you share some details on how you have done this, exactly? GSX doesn't seem to work at all with Turbo Pascal. Using gengraf.com to attach the GSX loader to a random binary generated by TP results in : Not enough memory. Program aborted.
Another way to use graphics would be nice. If that doesn't work, i guess we need to use Hisoft C :)
Thanks!
Not PCW related, but last year I have worked on a set of graphic routines for an obscure ex-Yugoslav CP/M computer called TIM-011. That one has its graphics in I/O space of Z80 and has no games using graphics whatsoever, AFAIK. I have managed to make pixel plotting, line plotting, font drawing and sprite drawing routines for it, at, I think, acceptable speed (especially as I was learning Z80 assembly along the way; though I come from 6502 background). Here is one experiment with sprites, just to see how fast it can draw:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RShMkQV-sc
There is no emulator for TIM-011 (actually, there is one started in MAME, but it is non-functional), so I hacked its video-memory layout inside an existing CP/M emulator, just to be able to develop the routines. Anyhow, complete source code is available, (I do not know if it would be usable for PCW, as I do not know its video memory organization), you can find it at:
https://bitbucket.org/zzarko/tim011-tools/