Lightning Basic

[nrg13]

Hello all!

Does anyone have a .DSK of Lightning Basic the extension for Mallard Basic? I have been coding some small programs in Mallard Basic on the PCW, and some of the utilities/commands in Lightning Basic would be very useful.

I have spent a couple of hours searching around on all of the PCW software sites, and can find plenty of references to it, but no actual disk image or similar.

Thanks in advance!

[GeoffB17]

I'll look out for this, in case no-one else finds a copy.

Which specific functions were you looking for?  I've got two other extensions, one called I think Wal BASIC, another may be EBasic (or maybe XBasic) both these contain similar things..

Note that these systems involved a patch to the BASIC.COM file.  This patch may need a specific version of BASIC.COM in order to work.  I remember trying with one version of BASIC and it would NOT work, once I understood the problem and used the correct version of BASIC.COM then it worked fine.   You needed the version of BASIC.COM that was supplied with the early (and common) 1.4 CP/M system.

The PCW Wiki has a copy of the Nabitchi ExBASIC extension, that may have some of what you're looking for.  There is a .DSK for download.  I've never tried anything with this system.

Geoff

[GeoffB17]

Not traced the full thing yet, but still looking.

Lightning Extended Basic was produced by Geoffrey Childs, and was sold via DW Computronics of Chathill, Northumberland (about 1989).  It was sold on disk with various PCW/Mallard Basic Utilities.

There was a related (but much reduced ?) RSX version called DWBAS which was free, and this can be downloaded from John Elliott's site.  His version has been modified, and this version can work with ANY BASIC version.  This included a multiple POKE command, also a large set of print functions (using ESC sequences) reduced to #x where the # is the initialiser, and the x is a letter indicating which command it is.  For example, #c may be the full esc sequence to clear the screen.  I don't think this version includes any specifically graphics commands.

By the way, the EXBASIC (Nabitchi) system will work ONLY with v 1.29 of BASIC.COM, this is the version that was supplied with early systems, such as the widely available 1.4 (CP/M).

I've found my docs re WalBasic, this is a French system from a couple of French PCW magazines.  There is BASIC code to implement many of the functions, I have working versions of these as entered by me.  I also have printed docs (from the scanned pages of the mag).  The BASIC code includes a lot of assembly via DATA statements.

Geoff

[nrg13]

Geoff, thanks for the reply. Exbasic does have some useful plot routines for graphics etc,.which indeed will be useful.

I will download and experiment!

Still, for such a well internet referenced basic extension, I was quite surprised there wasn't a .DSK already up on the web!

[GeoffB17]

Well, so a lot of people have heard of Lightning, but how many bought it (back when that was the only way of getting it), and how many of those kept it when interest died down.  And then, how many of those were prepared to donate their copy to the Wiki?  There may not have been too many copies sold back then.  When people found a copy in a box, they prob had no idea what it was, or how to use it.

Keep asking, might be lucky.

If it's the draw/line/plot sort of things, this can be done with the WalBASIC (in effect got the ASM for that) and with the ExBASIC, and there's prob not much difference between those and the code in the Lightning? Prob just comes down to which is easier for you to use.

Geoff

[JTN]

Does anyone have a .DSK of Lightning Basic the extension for Mallard Basic?

I bought this (the "Lightning Extended Basic Plus Plus" version), in 1989/1990 or thereabouts. It was my main programming environment for a while.
I have the original disc, box, and printed documentation.

(You're going to ask, where's the DSK / PDF? I'm slightly reluctant to go to the trouble of scanning etc without knowing whether it would meet PCWwiki's standards for resolution, DSK format etc; I'd very much like material I preserve to be archived there, but don't want to do it twice. Although the fact that it's already listed on PCWwiki's applications page as "pending" suggests they may have their own copy anyway?)

The docs say 'Some of the routines were developed from CP software's "All you ever wanted to know about Graphics, the Universe and Everything on the PCW"' and there are some traces of that heritage in the material.

Later (early 1990s I think), I did write off to David Wilson Computronics for some other titles - I have an assembler tutorial/tools disc, and a thing called PANORAMA. No printed material with these, just 3" discs with handwritten labels and docs on disc. (And comes with copies of DWBAS, possibly slightly modified from the widely distributed versions. I'd already met DWBAS by this point.)
(I had thought my imaging of PANORAMA incomplete, but now I look closer, it looks like it had the same content on both sides of the disc? And one side imaged OK, phew.)

Lightning Extended Basic was produced by Geoffrey Childs, and was sold via DW Computronics of Chathill, Northumberland (about 1989).  It was sold on disk with various PCW/Mallard Basic Utilities.

I was going to say, the DW bit doesn't sound right - I remember it as being published by "CP Software" (who also did stuff like Bridge Player), and indeed all my material is prominently "(C) CP Software 1989" (with an address in Burford, Oxfordshire). (I can't remember from whom we purchased it, and doubt I have a record.)

However: on the aforementioned David Wilson discs (which I'm quite sure I got direct from him, and which don't mention Geoffrey Childs at all), some of the docs mentioning DWBAS say "The author of DWBAS has written a much longer extension: Lightning Extended Basic which is available from CP Software." John Elliott's modified DWBAS distribution does credit Geoffrey Childs as the author of DWBAS, so that joins up with the LB docs.
(Which makes it a bit confusing that DWBAS has DW's initials on it - I had assumed it was his.)

I guess CP Software was a software publishing house rather than GC's own outfit - the other title I have from them, "Bridge Player", is "(C) 1986 Hi-Tech Software", with a Sheffield address in the binary (the manual gives a London address for CP Software). So maybe GC went into some sort of partnership with David J Wilson afterwards, after I stopped paying attention? (And PCWwiki does mention "D.G.C. Software" for an earlier version, which is presumably his initials.)
This retyping by the late Emmanuel ROCHE of the contemporaneous "Streamlined Basic" suggests they worked together.

(On the subject of PCW BASIC extensions, I was looking through PCW Today recently - it was after my time - and came across one called Basic98, by Richard Hill of Canterbury. See e.g. ad on p19 of PCW Today no 7, Autumn 1997.)

[GeoffB17]

Urgh - getting even more off-topic?

Yes, the situation re Lightning Basic seems rather complex.  Seems to be about various small businesses that work together at some things, but not with other things.  One of the articles I read re the DWBAS system seemed to have Mr Childs referring to certain things he'd done, and other things that Mr Wilson had done, and some things that they'd done together.   I got the impression that DW was also involved in financing some things.

Gets complicated.

More interesting, the mention of the BASIC98.   I've never heard of that.

Did you notice in the ad that this is supposed to be a COMPILER for Mallard, with lots of extras, AND a built in Z80 assembler, with a database of macros (?) - although there's a editor built-in as well and the latter may be part of the editor rather than the compiler?   Sounds rather a large project for a 1 man operation (i.e. R.P.Hill) so I wonder who he is, and/or if this package is from somewhere else and modified for the PCW.

Need to see what I can find out about this?

Anyone else know anything about BASIC98??

Geoff

[GeoffB17]

Aha - the PCW Wiki has a page for this, incl pics of two 3.5" disks (for the 9256?).   There is mention of a download, but nothing working.

The advert refers to a 4 disk version for 3" for 8xxx machines, and 2 disk versions for 3" and 3.5".

I'd have no problem with the 3.5" version, if d/l was working.  Could soon get images to 3" disks.   Or if I had the actual disks, get them read to whatever.

Geoff

[GeoffB17]

The Wiki page also contains an image of a document supplied with the disks.  I've had a study of this (it's not a very good scan).  This makes me think even more that this system is NOT a 'compiler for Mallard' but is a generic compiler for MBASIC programs, which may well have been modified for use with Mallard, also provided with some utility programs to fill other gaps such as convert Jetsam files (such as the indexes) so that they CAN be used.  The package is supplied with the source ASM for the library, and items in that may have been modified to resolve other issues.  Therefore, if it IS based on a shareware package, sufficient extra work may have been done on it to justify it being sold as (C) Richard P. Hill

I need to investigate further as to what this package is based on.  The document mentioned does not say, that I can see.   Files on the disks may be more helpful.

Very interesting regardless.

Geoff

[robcfg]

Hi @JTN !

When it comes to scanning things for the PCWWiki, I take 300dpi as the bare minimum, and if you are willing to go through the trouble, 600 dpi is even better.

For the disks, if you hace a Kryoflux, Greaseweazle or similar board, then a raw flux dump would be great. Otherwise, a DSK made with one of several programs available would be enough.

Please tell us if you need any assistance!

Cheers,
Rob

[GeoffB17]

@robcfg I'd like to get my hands on the disks for the BASIC-98.  As they're 3.5", maybe you have a problem imageing them?  For most people, they'd be better as CF2 type images?

If you've got access there to an old PC (with a proper FDC) then you could image them as is using something like the PC prog IMAGEDSK (I think it's that rather than IMAGEDISK).

If I got those images, I can recreate the 3.5" disks.  If I get that OK, then I can use the IMD system to get image files of those.  If the data in the IMAGEDSK files are OK, I might be able to miss a step?

Then I can use the 3.5" drive on my PCW and make .DSK files.  No problem with the file size as I've got a uIDE drive system.

Can check that these load OK on my PCW (if I make actual disks from the images.  Can also split the files to make CF2 images?

I assume the 3.5" disks are the only copies known?  So no need to risk anything in the post.

Any help?

Of course, I;m assuming that the disks you've got will read?

Geoff

[JTN]

When it comes to scanning things for the PCWWiki, I take 300dpi as the bare minimum, and if you are willing to go through the trouble, 600 dpi is even better.

For the disks, if you hace a Kryoflux, Greaseweazle or similar board, then a raw flux dump would be great. Otherwise, a DSK made with one of several programs available would be enough.

Thanks for the guidelines!

No flux imaging, I'm afraid. Virtually all of my collection is 3" disc; my standard imaging setup these days is AUXDPCW on a PCW8xxx + LibDsk dsktrans (etc) over serial, writing to DSK or EDSK. I make notes of disc errors, and document if/how I've manually spliced together an image from multiple imperfect copies (generally using JCE's LibDsk LDBST format to do the editing), defeated (rare) copy protection, etc. (Not an issue for Lightning)

I can in principle do 600dpi. I assume you'd like some lossless format (PNGs or equivalent, perhaps wrapped up in a PDF)?
(I think my scanner claims up to 2400dpi, but that seems like way overkill for most things, probably the actual resolution is less, and it's dog slow.)
I only have a flatbed scanner with no sheet feeding of any kind; so I'm content to scan tens-of-pages instruction booklets (like the Lightning Basic one), but not huge 100s-of-pages manuals, unless I can somehow get some time on a proper page-turny book scanner.
(I reserve the right to scan some stuff at 300dpi if the source material is tens of pages of crappy tea-stained nth-generation photocopy, where 600dpi would be a waste...)

I'm willing to do reasonably obsessive scans/photos of discs (inc spines), packaging, hardware etc. (But I'll leave the 'restored versions' to others.)

For items where you already have a copy of the physical object, is it actually worth my submitting my version to you, or are you going to want to post your own copy anyway?
(On PCWwiki, does "preserved" mean that you've already done the scanning/imaging etc, just not put the results online yet?)

If/when I have an item ready, how should I get it to you folks? (I have web hosting where I can serve fairly large files over http/s temporarily.)

I'll put Lightning Basic in my queue. (I already owe people some EMR MIDI material - pcw@habisoft and others have already been in contact about this. I've also just about finished comparing my collection to PCWwiki's, and hope to post about the unique items I have soon.)

[jevicac]

Sorry I'm late but time is short. Here I leave what I have of the Lighting Extended Basic, pending uploading with the manual. It is a 3.5" disk but the dsk works. I hope it works for you. Regards

https://www.habisoft.com/pcwwiki/doku.php?id=es:aplicaciones:lightning_extended_basic

This link is provisional

[nrg13]

Thank you ever so much!

[GeoffB17]

Hello,

Yes, big thanks for this.  A few things to explore, I'm sure.

Anyway, I've got it working.  Just about.

I'm using the 'A' side.  Don't know what the differences are, but they are slightly different.   The 'A' side is working in Joyce, not tried the 'B' side.  Yet??

The system seems to work ONLY with BASIC versions 1.29 or 1.39.   The extension data is loaded from the relevant .DAT file, either L129.DAT or L139.DAT.  Trying to use the wrong files will cause a problem.

The .BAS prog LIGHT uses L129.DAT, so this combination needs basic v 1.29

Need to run BASIC, and then enter RUN "LIGHT"

This will load the extensions, and the modified system is now ready/active.

I then tried RUN "DEMO" and this went off into a demo prog, which ran into something else (via MERGE) and it seems to loop around again when it's complete.

Very impressive.

There are other DEMO progs to explore as well, not got to them yet.

If you try other things, please let us know so we can build a quick reference until docs are available.

Geoff

[GeoffB17]

I did the above using Joyce.

I've now transferred the files to disk and done the same thing on my real PCW.

All works.   Seems remarkably fast, to be honest.

I note that there are 4 levels of the system, depending on the options included.  Level 4 uses up more of the RAM, level 1 the least.  Need to work out which options are in which level.   Prob most will get most of what they want from level 1.

There are quite a few small BAS files, no idea what a lot of them do.  Need to check, and make a list.  My guess is that LIGHT1 thru LIGHT4 load the respective levels.

Geoff

[GeoffB17]

Hello @jevicac 

OK, I know this is not important, but I'm intrigued/confused regarding the disk with this.

Can you explain?

The downloaded file contains two .DSK files, and using FC (File Compare) indicates that they are 99%+ identical, but there is a (small) section of the files that contain differences, but not by much (i.e. almost every pair of bytes that do not match are not different by much, sometimes by less than 10, otherwise not much more.

The two files look like normal .DSK images as would come from a CF2 disk.  As in, an image of each side of the SS disk.

So how did such files come to be on a 3.5" disk, which is of course a DS disk, that cannot have 2 separate sides, and cannot be turned over like a 3" disk?  Maybe this WAS a CF2 disk, and the files have been  imaged from that disk and then both put onto the 3.5" disk?

Also confusing that the package is referred to as covering a number of different PCW machines, and this would cover all three disk types i.e. 3" CF2, 3" CF2DD and 3.5".  So a 3.5" disk is legitimate, but not with CF2 images on it?

Any answers?  Just wondering!

Massive thanks for the files regardless.

Geoff

[jevicac]

Good morning. Right now I can't confirm anything, but I think I have the original from CP Software. I don't remember if the dsk are 3" or 3.5". When I confirm it, I'll let you know. Greetings