Author Topic: Amstrad CPC 16KBs ROM Game Development Competition!  (Read 107898 times)

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Offline arnoldemu

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Re: Amstrad CPC 16KBs ROM Game Development Competition!
« Reply #75 on: 11:27, 17 January 13 »
Well, in the case that someone is selling YOUR game on ebay burned into a plus cartridge, can you tell the guys on ebay that he is selling YOUR software without your approval and to cancel the sale?
I would do exactly that.
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Offline Snake_Plissken

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Re: Amstrad CPC 16KBs ROM Game Development Competition!
« Reply #76 on: 10:12, 28 January 13 »
It's a nice contest,if i can find some time i will try !
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Offline Gryzor

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Re: Amstrad CPC 16KBs ROM Game Development Competition!
« Reply #77 on: 17:05, 30 January 13 »
Quote from: Snake_Plissken
It's a nice contest,if i can find some time i will try !
Please do!

The question on the license is secondary I guess...

But it's wrong to compare selling stuff on ebay with the dsk's we're using. Selling a DVD with dsk's is as unethical.
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Offline duncan_bayne

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Re: Amstrad CPC 16KBs ROM Game Development Competition!
« Reply #78 on: 05:05, 31 January 13 »
Re. licensing, I'm tempted to use the WTFPL myself  ;D

Re. the game itself: will the cartridge need to run on the GX consoles as well as the CPC?  The idea I have for a game very much depends upon the presence of a keyboard and mass storage (either cassette or disc).  It'd be nice to use 664- and 6128-specific routines too ... how specific can we be in terms of hardware requirements?
« Last Edit: 06:58, 31 January 13 by duncan_bayne »
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Offline TotO

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Re: Amstrad CPC 16KBs ROM Game Development Competition!
« Reply #79 on: 10:20, 31 January 13 »

Quote
All submitted games must be in working in all CPC models in a 16 KBs ROM format.


Than mean:
- You can't use more than 64KB RAM. (else, will only work on 6128/6128+)
- You can't use CPC+ features. (else, will only work on 464+/6128+)
- The program will not use tape or floppy storage. Only ROM and RAM. (else, will not work on ...)


The GX4000 is not a Computer, but a videogame system.
Now, if possible, I encourage peoples to support a joystick to work on it too, as it's just a keyboard expansion.
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Offline Gryzor

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Re: Amstrad CPC 16KBs ROM Game Development Competition!
« Reply #80 on: 11:49, 31 January 13 »
You can substitute "GX" with "Plus", so in that regards his question is still valid...

Concerning the "all models" rule, what if the dev includes additional Plus features but makes it also compatible with the classic series?
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Offline duncan_bayne

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Re: Amstrad CPC 16KBs ROM Game Development Competition!
« Reply #81 on: 13:38, 31 January 13 »
- The program will not use tape or floppy storage. Only ROM and RAM. (else, will not work on ...)


Else, will not work on what?  I mean if my game can load data from either cassette or tape, it'll work on any CPC ever made.  Surely that's acceptable?
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Offline TotO

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Re: Amstrad CPC 16KBs ROM Game Development Competition!
« Reply #82 on: 14:43, 31 January 13 »
You can substitute "GX" with "Plus", so in that regards his question is still valid...
No, because the GX4000 is not a Colour Personal Computer, but a videogame system.
The main difference is that the GX lack the keyboard.
If the game need the keyboard (text adventure game), it may not work on the GX. It's not a problem.
But, like I said, If the games can manage all with the gamepad, that will allow to work on the GX too.


Concerning the "all models" rule, what if the dev includes additional Plus features but makes it also compatible with the classic series?
You get yourself the answer. If it work on all CPC models, it's OK. ;)
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Offline TotO

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Re: Amstrad CPC 16KBs ROM Game Development Competition!
« Reply #83 on: 14:45, 31 January 13 »
Else, will not work on what?  I mean if my game can load data from either cassette or tape, it'll work on any CPC ever made.  Surely that's acceptable?
No. It's a ROM Competition. Your game have to load all the data from a ROM to the RAM. That all.
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Offline duncan_bayne

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Re: Amstrad CPC 16KBs ROM Game Development Competition!
« Reply #84 on: 15:00, 31 January 13 »
No. It's a ROM Competition. Your game have to load all the data from a ROM to the RAM. That all.
I wasn't thinking of loading game data, but user input.  Imagine an AI battle game, where users have to program their own AIs in BASIC, and the game itself (which lives on the ROM) pits them against each other in a virtual world.

You could get the users to type in their AI, or you could CHAIN them in.  I don't think that'd be violating the spirit of the rules?
« Last Edit: 15:01, 31 January 13 by duncan_bayne »
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Offline cpcitor

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Re: Amstrad CPC 16KBs ROM Game Development Competition!
« Reply #85 on: 15:23, 31 January 13 »
The GX4000 is not a Computer, but a videogame system.

You can substitute "GX" with "Plus", so in that regards his question is still valid...

Concerning the "all models" rule, what if the dev includes additional Plus features but makes it also compatible with the classic series?

No, because the GX4000 is not a Colour Personal Computer, but a videogame system.
The main difference is that the GX lack the keyboard.
If the game need the keyboard (text adventure game), it may not work on the GX. It's not a problem.
But, like I said, If the games can manage all with the gamepad, that will allow to work on the GX too.

You get yourself the answer. If it work on all CPC models, it's OK. ;)

So, to summarize and make sure everyone understands (even me ;-), can someone authoritative answer these true/false questions ? I tried to sort them from clear to unclear. (Note that 2 and 3 cannot be true at the same time.)

  • The rules don't care if the game works or not on GX4000. True/false ?
  • The rules don't care if the game works or not on CPC+. It must just run on 464,664 and 6128. True/false ?
  • The game must run on 464,664, 6128, 464+, 664+ and 6128+. Any missing target disqualifies the game. True/false ?
  • The rules don't care if the game can be played with a joystick. It just must allow a player without a joystick to play it (presumably using the keyboard). True/false ?
  • The rules don't care if the game needs additional input/output via tape or disk. It must get satisfied with whatever classic CPC without extension has available at run time. True/false ?
  • The rules don't care if the game needs additional hardware (a tape, a floppy) input/output via tape or disk, as long any target machine without particular extension (well, just a ROM to hold the game) can run the game. True/false ?

Some are important nowadays, because real CPC less often than before come with working tape/tape drive/disc/disc drive, and a game with least requirements has more chance to be enjoyed on a real CPC (or emulator).

Thank you for clarification.
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Had a CPC since 1985, currently software dev professional, including embedded systems.

I made in 2013 the first CPC cross-dev environment that auto-installs C compiler and tools: cpc-dev-tool-chain: a portable toolchain for C/ASM development targetting CPC, later forked into CPCTelera.

Offline TotO

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Re: Amstrad CPC 16KBs ROM Game Development Competition!
« Reply #86 on: 15:41, 31 January 13 »

The game need to work on all CPC (with a romboard or a cartridge slot, to load the game)

That mean:
- 16K ROM
- 64K RAM
- No tape
- No floppy

I think that can't be more clear, as:
- 128K RAM will not work on 464/464+
- Tape loading will not work on 664/6128/6128+
- Floppy loading will not work on 464/464+


If inputs are required, you can use the keyboard or a joystick.
If you need to program a AI or save states, you need to find a way to do it ingame. (code, ...) Because that is extra data.
But sure, I encourage you to continue your project after the contest and allow what you want on a bigger ROM.
« Last Edit: 15:51, 31 January 13 by TotO »
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Offline Grim

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Re: Amstrad CPC 16KBs ROM Game Development Competition!
« Reply #87 on: 16:16, 31 January 13 »
From what I understood: The game must be self-contained in a 16k ROM, run on 64K RAM and have keyboard/joystick support. Anything else can still be used (extended RAM, disc/tape, ASIC/Plus features, hard-drive, serial port controlled coffee machine, rocket launcher, etc) as long as it remains optional (eg. if a disc interface is detected/available, the game could use it to save/load hi-scores). Is that right?
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Offline SyX

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Re: Amstrad CPC 16KBs ROM Game Development Competition!
« Reply #88 on: 16:51, 31 January 13 »
Sorry i have a big cold, but TotO has answered perfectly and he is part of the organization.

And yes, Grim, the games can use extra features (extra ram, speech synthetizer, asic, mouse, ...) but they must remain optional, not as a requirement.  These extras should be explained in the readme, because the people voting will be asked to no caring about them in their votes.

IMPORTANT: All the games are going to be tested in a 464 (and the rest of the CPC family) and a joystick, nothing else. And if an entry doesn't work in this configuration, it will be sent back to the author to fix it before the deadline; in case contrary, it will be disqualified. Don't wait to the last minute!!! :P
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Offline TotO

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Re: Amstrad CPC 16KBs ROM Game Development Competition!
« Reply #89 on: 16:57, 31 January 13 »
If peoples want to waste their 16K using optional things...
Just remember that from years, most games have never used 128K RAM or saves on floppies, when you get it as standard.  :-\
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Offline Grim

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Re: Amstrad CPC 16KBs ROM Game Development Competition!
« Reply #90 on: 17:54, 31 January 13 »
If peoples want to waste their 16K using optional things...
Yeah, implementing optional support for some extra features will obviously require more work and take more space, but if some people want to do it... why not? Let them try.
(and 16K... do you realize it's 64*256 bytes! That's a lot! 256 bytes ought to be enough for anybody :)

@Syx: for your cold: two grogs and a good night sleep! Result guaranteed! :)
« Last Edit: 17:59, 31 January 13 by Grim »
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Offline TotO

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Re: Amstrad CPC 16KBs ROM Game Development Competition!
« Reply #91 on: 20:27, 31 January 13 »
Everybody can do what they want, if that fully run on a 64K CPC from the 16K ROM.
I'm just surprise that some want do to things that they don't when they got all the CPC power. ;)
(sure Bill... Nobody will need more in his computer life)
« Last Edit: 10:15, 01 February 13 by TotO »
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Offline SyX

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Re: Amstrad CPC 16KBs ROM Game Development Competition!
« Reply #92 on: 22:33, 31 January 13 »
@Grim: Thanks!!!  :) ... i think that visit you in Mêlée island, it would help a lot too  ;)
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Offline duncan_bayne

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Re: Amstrad CPC 16KBs ROM Game Development Competition!
« Reply #93 on: 23:02, 31 January 13 »
- No tape
- No floppy
...
If inputs are required, you can use the keyboard or a joystick.
Okay, will this be acceptable?
  • the ROM is inserted and the system powered on
  • the first player enters an AI routine, starting with 'REM player 1' so the game ROM can find it
  • ditto for the second player, starting with 'REM player 2'
  • the game is started with |play
The idea is that the game itself will allow the two AIs to compete in a virtual world with resources, competitors, landscape etc.

No saving or loading is performed by the game ROM.  Sure the users could load their BASIC AIs from cassette or disk, but that has nothing to do with the game ROM itself.  They could just as easily type it in directly.

The game ROM will work on every CPC that is equipped with a keyboard.
« Last Edit: 23:05, 31 January 13 by duncan_bayne »
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Offline cpcitor

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Re: Amstrad CPC 16KBs ROM Game Development Competition!
« Reply #94 on: 23:23, 31 January 13 »
Okay, will this be acceptable?
  • the ROM is inserted and the system powered on
  • the first player enters an AI routine, starting with 'REM player 1' so the game ROM can find it
  • ditto for the second player, starting with 'REM player 2'
  • the game is started with |play
The idea is that the game itself will allow the two AIs to compete in a virtual world with resources, competitors, landscape etc.

No saving or loading is performed by the game ROM.  Sure the users could load their BASIC AIs from cassette or disk, but that has nothing to do with the game ROM itself.  They could just as easily type it in directly.

The game ROM will work on every CPC that is equipped with a keyboard.

I'm not an official spokeperson, but this seems definitely reasonable to me.

Also the topic looks pretty interesting. This reminds Core War.
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Offline duncan_bayne

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Re: Amstrad CPC 16KBs ROM Game Development Competition!
« Reply #95 on: 23:36, 31 January 13 »
I'm not an official spokeperson, but this seems definitely reasonable to me.
Thanks :)  I'm 100% certain that it falls within the letter of the law but was hoping for a spokesman to confirm that it falls within the spirit too :)

Also the topic looks pretty interesting. This reminds Core War.
That was one of my inspirations, along with GNU Robots.  The main challenge is going to be getting the ROM to execute BASIC subroutines ... basically finding the line by searching for the REM statements (easy), then faking a GOSUB (damn hard, and will require detecting the version of Locomotive BASIC).  I've been discussing it on this thread.
« Last Edit: 23:38, 31 January 13 by duncan_bayne »
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Offline TotO

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Re: Amstrad CPC 16KBs ROM Game Development Competition!
« Reply #96 on: 10:45, 01 February 13 »
Okay, will this be acceptable?
  • the ROM is inserted and the system powered on
  • the first player enters an AI routine, starting with 'REM player 1' so the game ROM can find it
  • ditto for the second player, starting with 'REM player 2'
  • the game is started with |play
The idea is that the game itself will allow the two AIs to compete in a virtual world with resources, competitors, landscape etc.

No saving or loading is performed by the game ROM.  Sure the users could load their BASIC AIs from cassette or disk, but that has nothing to do with the game ROM itself.  They could just as easily type it in directly.

The game ROM will work on every CPC that is equipped with a keyboard.

Like said SyX, until your game can run on a 64K RAM + 16K ROM CPC, it's OK.
That mean, save and reload things from tape or floppy or parallel port or anything else, must be an option.
If your game not work w/o loading extra data (AI parametters here), it will be not selected.

Your game must allow the player to set the AI parameters from the game itself and store the AI data into the RAM.
Else, it's no more a game, as the player don't get interactivity with the program.
« Last Edit: 10:48, 01 February 13 by TotO »
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Offline duncan_bayne

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Re: Amstrad CPC 16KBs ROM Game Development Competition!
« Reply #97 on: 10:49, 01 February 13 »
Like said SyX, until your game can run on a 64K RAM + 16K ROM CPC, it's OK.
That mean, save and reload things from tape or floppy or parallel port or anything else, must be an option.
If your game not work w/o loading extra data (AI parametters here), it will be not selected.

Your game must allow the player to set the AI parameters from the game itself and store the AI data into the RAM.
Else, it's no more a game, as the player don't get interactivity with the program.

So is that a yes to my plan, or a no?  I'm sorry, but I really don't understand your answer.
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Offline Bryce

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Re: Amstrad CPC 16KBs ROM Game Development Competition!
« Reply #98 on: 10:52, 01 February 13 »
Generally, I think what he's saying is:

If you can hand him a 16K EPROM and he can play the game with just this EPROM (in a CPC with a ROMBoard of course) and nothing else. Then it's fine. As soon as the game needs anything else it is not within the rules.

Bryce.
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Offline duncan_bayne

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Re: Amstrad CPC 16KBs ROM Game Development Competition!
« Reply #99 on: 10:56, 01 February 13 »
Generally, I think what he's saying is:

If you can hand him a 16K EPROM and he can play the game with just this EPROM (in a CPC with a ROMBoard of course) and nothing else. Then it's fine. As soon as the game needs anything else it is not within the rules.

Bryce.

I get that, but the grey area I'm concerned about is that my plan currently revolves around the players first typing in their AI rules in BASIC (or loading them from cassette or disc if they choose).

Hence why I'm hoping for a yes or no answer.  Yes, and I go off and try to figure out how to invoke BASIC from ASM.  No, and I go off and see if I can fit Forth into 16K along with the game, which I'd much rather not do.
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