Author Topic: The end of UK repairs.  (Read 985 times)

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Offline Bryce

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The end of UK repairs.
« on: 17:51, 30 September 21 »
Hi all,
      it is with much regret that I have to announce that I can no longer do repairs for UK members.Due to the new customs regulations that Brexit has caused, it is now practically impossible to send things for repair from the UK to Germany. I have spent the last few days trying to get a parcel that's stuck in customs, with many calls, e-mails and advice from a customs expert.The process would unfortunately involve much time and expense and massive paperwork for each parcel and also require me to register as a small company, which in turn involves solicitors and tax implications. It would also require me to go through a similar process to send items back as I would also be required to document and prove that the item had indeed been sent back to the UK.

As you can imagine, this is more than I am willing to do and despite much investigation into possible work-arounds or exceptions to the rules, it seems there aren't any. Sorry guys, I helped while I could. If anyone from the UK has anything they need fixed in the future, then send me a PM and I'll put you in touch with one of the many talented electronics friends I know in the UK.


Bryce.
« Last Edit: 17:53, 30 September 21 by Bryce »
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Offline ComSoft6128

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Re: The end of UK repairs.
« Reply #1 on: 18:02, 30 September 21 »
 :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
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Offline redbox

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Re: The end of UK repairs.
« Reply #2 on: 18:12, 30 September 21 »
I have spent the last few days trying to get a parcel that's stuck in customs, with many calls, e-mails and advice from a customs expert.The process would unfortunately involve much time and expense and massive paperwork for each parcel and also require me to register as a small company, which in turn involves solicitors and tax implications. It would also require me to go through a similar process to send items back as I would also be required to document and prove that the item had indeed been sent back to the UK.

Really sorry to hear this. 

However, it would seem it's primarily a German government problem rather than a Brexit problem.

In the UK you can send and receive a "gift" anywhere in the world with a value of £38 / $50 USD without any customs hassles.  Can you not do the same from Germany?
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Offline ComSoft6128

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Re: The end of UK repairs.
« Reply #3 on: 18:45, 30 September 21 »
Not to be confrontational @redbox but over the last few years (pre-Brexit) I sent three or four CPC's to @Bryce for repair without any problem.
The UK left a "club" that had positive real benefits and leaving has consequences.
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Offline dragon

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Re: The end of UK repairs.
« Reply #4 on: 19:06, 30 September 21 »
Germany is subject to eu laws as the other 26 country's.
Its the same for every country in eu.


The reality u.k is now in a true island inclusive virtually.


Thats the price for brexit unfortunly.


I read an article the other day that spanishs trucker that in pre-brexit era they go from Spain to UK. For around 3000e. They don't go now to UK due to brexit. Because the cost to customs is now 9000e and only to cover cost.
« Last Edit: 19:10, 30 September 21 by dragon »
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Offline redbox

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Re: The end of UK repairs.
« Reply #5 on: 19:22, 30 September 21 »
Not to be confrontational @redbox but over the last few years (pre-Brexit) I sent three or four CPC's to @Bryce for repair without any problem.
The UK left a "club" that had positive real benefits and leaving has consequences.

Absolutely, it's a real change.

I'm not being pro or anti Brexit, was just pointing out the "problem" or "issue" doesn't seem to be on this side of the border and I was wondering what the German / EU rules are now the UK has left the EU.
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Offline Bryce

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Re: The end of UK repairs.
« Reply #6 on: 20:00, 30 September 21 »
Absolutely, it's a real change.

I'm not being pro or anti Brexit, was just pointing out the "problem" or "issue" doesn't seem to be on this side of the border and I was wondering what the German / EU rules are now the UK has left the EU.

The problem isn't on either side of the border and no rules have actually changed. The problem is that the UK decided / voted to create a border where there wasn't one up to now (or at least place themselves on the other side of the existing border).

Bryce.
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Offline 1024MAK

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Re: The end of UK repairs.
« Reply #7 on: 20:02, 30 September 21 »
I'm not being pro or anti Brexit, was just pointing out the "problem" or "issue" doesn't seem to be on this side of the border and I was wondering what the German / EU rules are now the UK has left the EU.
The problem is on both sides, it’s called a border without a customs and tax agreement. Hence every time an item has to cross the border, it’s subject to VAT and customs checks. Hence more procedures, paperwork and expense. Plus more opportunity for something to go wrong.


I myself have a lost parcel somewhere. It’s an item I bought from abroad. Last known location in U.K. customs, January…


Mark
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Offline redbox

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Re: The end of UK repairs.
« Reply #8 on: 21:11, 30 September 21 »
The problem isn't on either side of the border and no rules have actually changed. The problem is that the UK decided / voted to create a border where there wasn't one up to now (or at least place themselves on the other side of the existing border).

But how?

Consider this scenario; I send you a parcel from the UK with a customs label stating "gift" and with a value of £30.  You then send me back a parcel also labelled as "gift" with a value of 35 EUR.  In both instances, the customs at the UK border will not impose any tax, duty or VAT whatsoever.

So what in Germany / EU is preventing you from doing this?
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Offline GeoffB17

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Re: The end of UK repairs.
« Reply #9 on: 02:51, 01 October 21 »
I'd suggest that as a one-off this could work.

But if it happens repeatedly/regularly, then someone will spot that Bryce is receiving/sending a LOT of 'gifts', and something is going on, and then big trouble for someone, and no more!

Geoff

Yes, I HAVE benefitted from Bryce's services, and my 3" drive is still working brilliantly - thanks
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Offline lmimmfn

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Re: The end of UK repairs.
« Reply #10 on: 04:16, 01 October 21 »
The EU removed free imports of goods under 25euro(i think, could be 20 euro) in June/July. Just an aside that all goods regardless of value are now subject to import fees.


The UK is a foreign country as regards EU countries and therefore subject to customs checks in and out of there.


It is what it is unfortunately, i used to buy at least 1000+euro a year of goods from the uk, but now i completely avoid any trade with the UK and wouldnt touch it with a barge pole. Ive spent 700euro buying from Germany sofar this year,


Germany will profit handsomely over the next few years of my purchases.
« Last Edit: 04:19, 01 October 21 by lmimmfn »
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Offline Skunkfish

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Re: The end of UK repairs.
« Reply #11 on: 09:03, 01 October 21 »
The EU removed free imports of goods under 25euro(i think, could be 20 euro) in June/July.

And it's not just the EU, the UK actually implemented this first from January 2021...
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Offline Shaun M. Neary

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Re: The end of UK repairs.
« Reply #12 on: 12:23, 01 October 21 »
And it's not just the EU, the UK actually implemented this first from January 2021...


Pretty much this. The June/July was a transition period for smaller amounts. It was always headed that direction.


The UK voted to leave *knowing* that customs charges would be implemented from the EU once it got pushed through.
Now anything coming in from the EU will be treated like it's coming from the US. Customs charges, paperwork, additional post office fees etc.

It also means anyone getting stuff from the UK will also get treated the same. The difference is those countries didn't have a say in this.

So it's not a problem on both sides. It's a UK problem because to quote Omid Djalili, "They made their decision"

Sad, but that's the harsh truth of it. I've had to stop buying stuff from the UK (which was quite a bit) as a result because of either lost parcels or just not worth the expense. And I know I'm not the only one, and it's only going to get worse too. But hey... Brexit benefits, right?
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Offline redbox

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Re: The end of UK repairs.
« Reply #13 on: 12:34, 01 October 21 »
The EU removed free imports of goods under 25euro(i think, could be 20 euro) in June/July. Just an aside that all goods regardless of value are now subject to import fees.

This is the problem and it's the decision of the EU, not the UK.  The US, China etc have not made this decision.

If Bryce is not running a business (which I'm assuming the the repairs are not) then the parcels can be sent and received as gifts from the UK perspective.


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Offline robcfg

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Re: The end of UK repairs.
« Reply #14 on: 13:20, 01 October 21 »
There's no sending as gift anymore, that's what they are trying to tell you.


Regarding Us and China, they are not part of the same economic and regional entities, so it doesn't apply here.


In a nutshell, the UK decided that it didn't like the conditions for belonging to the EU, which is fine, and both are facing the consequences, which is not nice.


On my side, I won't be buying on the UK because it's too expensive.


It's as simple as that.
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Offline Skunkfish

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Re: The end of UK repairs.
« Reply #15 on: 14:27, 01 October 21 »
I'm re-opening CPCSTORE.CO.UK on the 9th October after a long summer break, but sadly for the moment I won't be shipping to the EU until I can sort something out.

As the situation currently stands, if someone orders something for £10 it will cost them at least £20 on top to get it shipped and through customs.
I'm looking into different options, but they're all potentially cost prohibitive - I can't afford £1000 a year for an IOSS intermediary so it looks like that option is out and would involve lots of work beforehand.

Currently, being a small hobby store I'm not registered for VAT in the UK (and neither do I need to be unless revenues hit £85k+ which is not going to happen!)
However, in the best case scenario I would still need to add VAT for EU customers and pass on this charge (like with the IOSS - International One Stop Shop), which already increases the price for EU customers of the UK price.

So, the steps I've made are to register a limited company, so that I can then become VAT registered and put the UK and EU on a more even platter regarding prices - however as I mentioned above, the cost of registering for the IOSS to be able to pay the EU VAT is prohibitive.

Another option is to send stuff with Postal Delivery Duties Paid - a way of paying customs charges and VAT in advance. This would be the same charge as if the item had been sent normally, only it's the sender who pays the charge rather than the receiver - and again, from a bit of research it's not really economical for a buyer unless the goods are high value (for my average order size, the cost of shipping+customs+VAT would be > the cost of goods). In fact, I think this costs an extra £5 for doing this via Royal Mail.

So there we are....
« Last Edit: 14:30, 01 October 21 by Skunkfish »
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Offline Bryce

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Re: The end of UK repairs.
« Reply #16 on: 14:35, 01 October 21 »
I'm re-opening CPCSTORE.CO.UK on the 9th October after a long summer break, but sadly for the moment I won't be shipping to the EU until I can sort something out.

As the situation currently stands, if someone orders something for £10 it will cost them at least £20 on top to get it shipped and through customs.
I'm looking into different options, but they're all potentially cost prohibitive - I can't afford £1000 a year for an IOSS intermediary so it looks like that option is out and would involve lots of work beforehand.

Currently, being a small hobby store I'm not registered for VAT in the UK (and neither do I need to be unless revenues hit £85k+ which is not going to happen!)
However, in the best case scenario I would still need to add VAT for EU customers and pass on this charge (like with the IOSS - International One Stop Shop), which already increases the price for EU customers of the UK price.

So, the steps I've made are to register a limited company, so that I can then become VAT registered and put the UK and EU on a more even platter regarding prices - however as I mentioned above, the cost of registering for the IOSS to be able to pay the EU VAT is prohibitive.

Another option is to send stuff with Postal Delivery Duties Paid - a way of paying customs charges and VAT in advance. This would be the same charge as if the item had been sent normally, only it's the sender who pays the charge rather than the receiver - and again, from a bit of research it's not really economical for a buyer unless the goods are high value (for my average order size, the cost of shipping+customs+VAT would be > the cost of goods). In fact, I think this costs an extra £5 for doing this via Royal Mail.

So there we are....

Then you're pretty much in the same situation as I find myself, other than the fact that with a repair the product has to be sent twice through customs.

This is the problem and it's the decision of the EU, not the UK.  The US, China etc have not made this decision.

But this decision would have no effect on UK repairs if Brexit hadn't happened. Remember the title isn't "The end of all non-EU repairs", we are just discussing the changes that have effected the repairs of UK members (the place most CPC's are coming from for repair). Strangely... I don't get that many repairs from China.

Bryce.
« Last Edit: 14:39, 01 October 21 by Bryce »
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Offline eto

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Re: The end of UK repairs.
« Reply #17 on: 23:11, 03 October 21 »
As the situation currently stands, if someone orders something for £10 it will cost them at least £20 on top to get it shipped and through customs.

Why do you need to charge VAT for EU customers? If I understand correctly, if you are exporting, VAT would anyway not apply for you and just (in my case) German customs would then charge the VAT to the recipient.

So if you are just sending a package that has a value of £10 plus postage maybe £8, this will be a total value of £18. Based on this amount, German customs will add 19% tax which are collected by DHL and DHL will charge another 6€ for collecting the VAT. So it's about 10€ that will come on top. And if the original amount is 50€ then it's still "just" about 16€. Of course not great, but doable... Not sure if it's that simple in other countries, but here it's relatively simple as DHL will collect the VAT and has a fixed price for it.
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Offline dragon

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Re: The end of UK repairs.
« Reply #18 on: 03:28, 04 October 21 »
Nope, if some it's stopped here in customs because it need paid iva..... Then the mafia called adt postales make you paid iva and not iva..


O well you have a packet here... You need paid 21% of iva.. O and well another 30e because we have the packet in our stock and or we'll you need paid us the managent.



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Offline 1024MAK

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Re: The end of UK repairs.
« Reply #19 on: 13:44, 04 October 21 »
The following is written from a U.K. perspective. The details on the E.U. side may be different.

A gift is defined as an item that one person has paid for (including transportation and insurance costs), but which is being sent to another person free of charge (with them not paying anything for the item as long as it’s below the limit for gifts).

If you are sending an item for repair, and said item will be returned to you, you are using a service. Hence this transaction (including any part of it) is to benefit you. Plus you will be paying the person who carries out the repair money, for parts, even if they do not charge for their time.

In no way does this fit in the category of a gift… As far as the authorities are concerned, it’s a normal transaction and not a gift.

You, yourself may wish to take the risk. But the person providing the service almost certainly will not. Especially as if a prosecution is brought, their argument will be that it was a normal business transaction but which intentionally avoided VAT, and they will include as many incidents as possible in the charges.

Note, the following is based on my understanding as it applies to the mainland U.K. (England, Scotland and Wales), the arrangements in Northern Ireland may be different.

Before brexit, the U.K. was part of the E.U. and hence goods and services within the E.U. could be provided within the E.U. without being subject to VAT being charged when crossing internal E.U. ‘borders’.

If an item came into the E.U. from elsewhere, then VAT would be charged if the combined value of the item plus transportation costs was above a certain value. Below this there was no charge (‘VAT free limit’). In the U.K. this ‘VAT free limit’ was called ‘Low Value Consignment Relief’ (LVCR).

The E.U. (including the U.K. as at the time the decision was made, we were still part of the E.U.) changed the rules and removed this VAT free limit. However the implementation date was delayed in the E.U.. In the U.K. the change happened on January 1st 2021 and applies to all imports from anywhere in the world (except NI).

So now that the U.K. has left the E.U. due to brexit, as there are no tax agreements between the U.K. and the E.U., all goods and services that cross into the U.K. from the E.U. (or indeed, from anywhere in the world) will be subject to VAT @ the current rate (20%).

And all goods and services that cross into the E.U. from the U.K. (or anywhere else in the world where no tax agreement exists) will also incur VAT.

Don’t forget, VAT is charged on the value of the goods, plus the cost of transportation (including the cost of insurance).

What is worse, is that there are charges for handling the assessment and collection of VAT. In the U.K. Royal Mail and Parcelforce charge £8.

Many small companies in the U.K. saw this coming and did raise it with the government. But the politicians basically ignored this issue.

The end result is that it’s not really viable for small companies to trade between the U.K. and elsewhere, and it’s not really viable for small companies in the E.U. to trade with the U.K..

Mark


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Offline Bryce

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Re: The end of UK repairs.
« Reply #20 on: 14:39, 04 October 21 »
What he said. And just for clarification, the German rules on sending gifts are almost identical: https://www.zoll.de/DE/Privatpersonen/Postsendungen-Internetbestellungen/Sendungen-aus-einem-Nicht-EU-Staat/Zoll-und-Steuern/Geschenksendungen/geschenksendungen_node.html


Bryce.

Where's the like button when you need it?
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Offline reidrac

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Re: The end of UK repairs.
« Reply #21 on: 17:27, 04 October 21 »
Where's the like button when you need it?

@1024MAK have a like, sir!

That was my understanding of all this (I know people selling retro related hardware from the UK to the EU, and it isn't pretty).
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Offline tjohnson

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Re: The end of UK repairs.
« Reply #22 on: 23:33, 04 October 21 »
If you are sending a cpc for repair then you aren't sending a gift and I wouldn't illegally declare an item a gift when it's not.  Maybe the UK and EU will agree something in the future but don't get your hopes up.
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