Author Topic: #CPCRetroDev 2015: Complete Results and Games  (Read 28072 times)

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Offline Ast

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Re: CPCRetroDev 2015 has started! 900€ in prizes!
« Reply #150 on: 00:01, 30 October 15 »
Well, maybe I should post this preview video of unfinished game for the compo, even if we never even have been close to start coding some actual gameplay.
Also, this is not what we have now, there are some new graphics, few improvements in the engine, but still no sprite routine for enemies/items. This video must be an unpublished private video from July. We worked a bit more since then and I have a graphic artist for it so far.
At least the compo motivated me to work on the old engine code after five years. I am thinking of finishing the RPG version of the planned game hopefully inside 2016.


[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3hsZbS4gH4[/youtube]
i applause Optimus. But i have a question as your preview is running on a C4Cpc card on Gx4000, why don't you use any Amstad Plus/Gx4000 extra colours ?
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Offline TFM

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Re: CPCRetroDev 2015 has started! 900€ in prizes!
« Reply #151 on: 00:03, 30 October 15 »
That's a good idea, could add some atmosphere.  :)
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Offline ervin

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Re: CPCRetroDev 2015 has started! 900€ in prizes!
« Reply #152 on: 00:26, 30 October 15 »
WoW! CPCtelera won the OS wars then!  :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

That's because cpctelera is completely brilliant!
 :D

Seriously, I think it will change the future of CPC homebrew.
Maybe it already has...
My (cancelled) entry for the CPCRetroDev 2017 Competition http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/programming/my-cpcretrodev-2017-entry/
FAST line drawing in CPCtelera http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/programming/drawing-lines-with-cpctelera-sdcc/
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Offline Optimus

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Re: CPCRetroDev 2015 has started! 900€ in prizes!
« Reply #153 on: 02:09, 30 October 15 »
i applause Optimus. But i have a question as your preview is running on a C4Cpc card on Gx4000, why don't you use any Amstad Plus/Gx4000 extra colours ?


I started originally this project for 64k CPC because of the competition, then decided with few changes to make it gx4000 because it was slightly faster to copy the CDT to the console and try it directly and more fun to try this on my telly in a console, so it's my main testing unit at the moment. I wasn't originally planning to support plus so I have used the plain CPC colors so far from the older code. At some point I did tried testing some plus palette but of course it was just a test and it looked bad, but I will find with the artist some proper palette soon since I decided that I will also be working on this game for the GX4000 too (and eventually the plus computers too).


p.s. In fact, now I am thinking it, some line irq code could automatically make some darkening of the floor/ceiling by the distance easier. While I am working on some pseudo-dithering/fading of walls by distance, but that wouldn't match horizontal ceiling/floor darkening since I draw now the ceiling/floor among the walls all at one pass vertically. That would work very nicely on plus, but I am wondering if I can still have it on plain CPC or think of other means.
« Last Edit: 02:14, 30 October 15 by Optimus »

Offline AMSDOS

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Re: CPCRetroDev 2015 has started! 900€ in prizes!
« Reply #154 on: 09:41, 30 October 15 »
Out of 35 entries:


No SDCC?
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Offline ervin

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Re: CPCRetroDev 2015 has started! 900€ in prizes!
« Reply #155 on: 09:50, 30 October 15 »
No SDCC?

cpctelera uses SDCC.
So yes, lots of SDCC.
 ;)
My (cancelled) entry for the CPCRetroDev 2017 Competition http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/programming/my-cpcretrodev-2017-entry/
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Offline AMSDOS

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Re: CPCRetroDev 2015 has started! 900€ in prizes!
« Reply #156 on: 10:03, 30 October 15 »
cpctelera uses SDCC.
So yes, lots of SDCC.
 ;)


But that would mean CPCTelera was a Library rather than a Language?
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Offline arnoldemu

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Re: CPCRetroDev 2015 has started! 900€ in prizes!
« Reply #157 on: 10:10, 30 October 15 »
I am using c4cpc the same. I am developing a cpc game, but using c4cpc it is quick to test and debug on real hardware :)

EDIT: more so, because the drives and keyboards on my cpcs seem to fail often :(
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Offline TotO

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Re: CPCRetroDev 2015 has started! 900€ in prizes!
« Reply #158 on: 10:12, 30 October 15 »
In fact, now I am thinking it, some line irq code could automatically make some darkening of the floor/ceiling by the distance easier. While I am working on some pseudo-dithering/fading of walls by distance, but that wouldn't match horizontal ceiling/floor darkening since I draw now the ceiling/floor among the walls all at one pass vertically. That would work very nicely on plus, but I am wondering if I can still have it on plain CPC or think of other means.
I'm sure that many users will be happy to see a new cartridge game for PLUS/GX, since the C4CPC exist.
Using ROM should allow you to store more data that can directly accessed to optimize your content.
PLUS sprites with a second palette should help for the visual too. But it is a long way to go over the demo!

Except the engine (technical side), have you any idea about what should be the game type?
It should be used inside dungeons (Dungeon Master) ; best with a 2D gameplay for external adventure like Phantasy Star... That should be more enjoyable than a hopelessly empty FPS.
« Last Edit: 10:38, 30 October 15 by TotO »
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Offline reidrac

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Re: CPCRetroDev 2015 has started! 900€ in prizes!
« Reply #159 on: 11:08, 30 October 15 »
I haven't thought about it but is a shame there's no new stock of 3" disks; cassettes are an outdated medium and floppies are the future, isn't' it? :)

(to be complete fair I'm not sure how long will last the "hipster powered comeback" of the cassettes, but most 8-bit computer owners should be delighted)

So, there's no "standard" peripheral to load software that works across all models. Could it be the upcoming Albireo from PulkoTronics perhaps?

IMHO 64KB for a competition is just fine: it levels the field and gives everybody enough to make a nice game that will work in most (all?) models (you can easily produce both a  CDT and a DSK); and is convenient because making a cassette release is cheap and easy.
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Offline TotO

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Re: CPCRetroDev 2015 has started! 900€ in prizes!
« Reply #160 on: 11:53, 30 October 15 »
You can already load things from the PC to all CPC using the CPC/Mini Booster.
In all cases, you will require a ROM board to handle not standard hardware plugged on the CPC.
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Offline AMSDOS

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Re: CPCRetroDev 2015 has started! 900€ in prizes!
« Reply #161 on: 11:56, 30 October 15 »
I haven't thought about it but is a shame there's no new stock of 3" disks; cassettes are an outdated medium and floppies are the future, isn't' it? :)

(to be complete fair I'm not sure how long will last the "hipster powered comeback" of the cassettes, but most 8-bit computer owners should be delighted)

So, there's no "standard" peripheral to load software that works across all models. Could it be the upcoming Albireo from PulkoTronics perhaps?

IMHO 64KB for a competition is just fine: it levels the field and gives everybody enough to make a nice game that will work in most (all?) models (you can easily produce both a  CDT and a DSK); and is convenient because making a cassette release is cheap and easy.


Converting CDT back to WAV is straightforward with Tape2WAV, and using Modern Media it might outlast Disc Technology? Though things might be a little bit trickier for the poor old 464.  :'(
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Offline TFM

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Re: CPCRetroDev 2015 has started! 900€ in prizes!
« Reply #162 on: 16:20, 30 October 15 »
That's because cpctelera is completely brilliant!
 :D

Seriously, I think it will change the future of CPC homebrew.
Maybe it already has...

You are right. I guess is already did.  :)  However I don't speak C and even CPCtelera doesn't teach C, never found a good manual for C. So I stick with ASM. One can do a lot in C, but not all one can do in assembler of course. So I'm fine anyway. But it seems to have us brought a great boost of development. And that's of course great. Well, I'm not too excited before I didn't see the results of the game compo.  ;) :)


EDIT: Guess we all completely derailed the thread. So... when can we download the games of the competition? And where? Please tell as you know.  :)
« Last Edit: 16:27, 30 October 15 by TFM »
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Offline AMSDOS

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Re: CPCRetroDev 2015 has started! 900€ in prizes!
« Reply #163 on: 21:57, 30 October 15 »
You are right. I guess is already did.  :)  However I don't speak C and even CPCtelera doesn't teach C, never found a good manual for C. So I stick with ASM. One can do a lot in C, but not all one can do in assembler of course. So I'm fine anyway. But it seems to have us brought a great boost of development. And that's of course great. Well, I'm not too excited before I didn't see the results of the game compo.  ;) :)


My earlier comments regarding CPCTelera being a Library maybe misleading. The problem is I don't know what SDCC represents, and people have told me you can plug various languages into it, but it sounds like the whole thing creates a standard output from whatever language module you throw at it. So a language module maybe something like CPCTelera, which I guess is a simplifying C language, perhaps as a means to streamline people if they decide to code in C. SDCC can also be used by coders to code in Oberon, though I'm unsure if this is available for CPC, since SDCC also targets other computer platforms.


So perhaps SDCC has to be through of as a device for translating code from numerous language dialects & produce the appropriate system output?
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Offline reidrac

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Re: CPCRetroDev 2015 has started! 900€ in prizes!
« Reply #164 on: 22:13, 30 October 15 »

My earlier comments regarding CPCTelera being a Library maybe misleading. The problem is I don't know what SDCC represents, and people have told me you can plug various languages into it, but it sounds like the whole thing creates a standard output from whatever language module you throw at it. So a language module maybe something like CPCTelera, which I guess is a simplifying C language, perhaps as a means to streamline people if they decide to code in C. SDCC can also be used by coders to code in Oberon, though I'm unsure if this is available for CPC, since SDCC also targets other computer platforms.


So perhaps SDCC has to be through of as a device for translating code from numerous language dialects & produce the appropriate system output?

I can try to explain my take on SDCC, based on my experience (and your mileage may vary etc).

SDCC is a compiler "old style", meaning that it generates ASM from C that is then assembled into a binary. Not that a modern compiler is too different, but in this case the intermediate ASM code is there for you to read and see what's happening behind the scenes.

That said, I write C for all the high level logic of the game, and anything that needs to be fast and optimized is written in ASM (by me or in case of a cpctelera user, part of the library -- the cpctelera IS a library).

Obviously the C code adds overhead (the generated code is usually slower and uses more space), but from my point of view it makes things simpler.

After some time you start writing C code knowing what the compiler will do with it, so you know what to avoid or which structures are easier to deal with by SDCC; and of course you'll start rewriting critical parts in ASM.

Basically that's what I do, and is not too different of my usual process with Z88DK when targeting the ZX Spectrum.
« Last Edit: 22:16, 30 October 15 by reidrac »
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Offline TFM

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Re: CPCRetroDev 2015 has started! 900€ in prizes!
« Reply #165 on: 22:44, 30 October 15 »
So CPCtelera is an "environment with libraries" for SDCC? Well, sorry, I'm not into PC stuff.  :-X
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Offline Optimus

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Re: CPCRetroDev 2015 has started! 900€ in prizes!
« Reply #166 on: 12:11, 31 October 15 »
I'm sure that many users will be happy to see a new cartridge game for PLUS/GX, since the C4CPC exist.
Using ROM should allow you to store more data that can directly accessed to optimize your content.
PLUS sprites with a second palette should help for the visual too. But it is a long way to go over the demo!


In fact, I now realize the power of the cartidge space in consoles. Even if it's static data and originally I didn't think much about it, that's why many consoles had much lower RAM than computers. When I moved from 128k to 64k for the competition, I had to drop double buffering. Now the weapon in foreground is kinda flickering although not as bad as I thought, but soon with the zooming sprites it could be a flickerfest. I was dissapoint at first when I also read the GX4000 stayed at 64k. But I am thinking now a way to reorganize my memory and move at least a 16k block in the cartidge and thus giving me another free page for double buffering. So, the CPC 64k version might flicker (unless I kill my massive unroll codes for wall rendering, so it will be slower), the 128k will be fine, but also the GX4000 or a 464 plus with cartidge will be free of flickering. And of course you can have more levels and enemies in the cartidge, more massive data to preload, although if I make a version for 64k, 128k and the GX4000, I would prefer to keep the content all the same.


I haven't thought of ways to use the hw sprites with the engine, but it's good to brainstorm on this.

Except the engine (technical side), have you any idea about what should be the game type?
It should be used inside dungeons (Dungeon Master) ; best with a 2D gameplay for external adventure like Phantasy Star... That should be more enjoyable than a hopelessly empty FPS.


We decided to go first for the RPG dungeon crawler (moving like the second part of the video), with smooth movement like legend of grimrock. It was the plan for the compo, easier to code gameplay and AI with enemies moving in restricting block than if we went for the true wolfenstein FPS. Also, I like these kind of RPGs way more than I would have liked an FPS on CPC which might have not worked as a game (and I will also have to optimize the engine more for a fast paced action FPS on CPC). I have seen Mood in C64 or some other FPS attempts on Speccy, but they are mostly tech demos and not as fun to play than say wolfenstein 3d on a 286 PC. An RPG with smooth movement will be like a glorified Bloodwych which despite the static animation was very interesting to play. As long as I also don't focus too much on tech and forget the gameplay. I never coded a full game before, so it will be a challenge to get the gameplay right.


So, yeah I think we will still continue with the RPG style game, while improving the engine, adding new graphics and hopefully start coding the gameplay mechanics.
« Last Edit: 12:15, 31 October 15 by Optimus »

Offline arnoldemu

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Re: CPCRetroDev 2015 has started! 900€ in prizes!
« Reply #167 on: 12:14, 31 October 15 »
sdcc is a c compiler that makes binaries. you can tell it which cpu to build for.
sdcc doesnt accept other languages.

cpctelera is a library of code, a tool which makes putting your code and data together easily, it contains tools for data and graphics conversion and underneath it uses sdcc.

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Offline arnoldemu

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Re: CPCRetroDev 2015 has started! 900€ in prizes!
« Reply #168 on: 12:16, 31 October 15 »
So CPCtelera is an "environment with libraries" for SDCC? Well, sorry, I'm not into PC stuff.  :-X
correct.

on cpc hisoft-c is similar, but it has less library functions.
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Offline AMSDOS

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Re: CPCRetroDev 2015 has started! 900€ in prizes!
« Reply #169 on: 12:38, 31 October 15 »
sdcc doesnt accept other languages.


I was advised Oberon was being used as a Front-end for SDCC, was that ill-advised?  ???
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Offline TotO

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Re: CPCRetroDev 2015 has started! 900€ in prizes!
« Reply #170 on: 13:06, 31 October 15 »
In fact, I now realize the power of the cartidge space in consoles. Even if it's static data and originally I didn't think much about it, that's why many consoles had much lower RAM than computers.
Exactly! Only variables need RAM, all statics data can leave in ROM without problem.
With ROM or Cartridge games, the CPC/PLUS/GX can use 32K to 48K for a double buffer display and the free RAM for other things. It is "huge".


We decided to go first for the RPG dungeon crawler (moving like the second part of the video), with smooth movement like legend of grimrock. [...] So, yeah I think we will still continue with the RPG style game, while improving the engine, adding new graphics and hopefully start coding the gameplay mechanics.
Great to ear that! :)
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Offline reidrac

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Re: CPCRetroDev 2015 has started! 900€ in prizes!
« Reply #171 on: 15:08, 31 October 15 »

I was advised Oberon was being used as a Front-end for SDCC, was that ill-advised?  ???

I'm not sure, but after a quick search, looks like there's an Oberon compiler using SDCC (it generates C code that can be compiled with SDCC).

I may be wrong though :)
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Re: CPCRetroDev 2015 has started! 900€ in prizes!
« Reply #174 on: 22:01, 31 October 15 »
Congratulations to the winners!

(I could only watch the video of the streaming, with no audio, but it was very exciting!)
Released The Return of Traxtor, Golden Tail, Magica, The Dawn of Kernel, Kitsune`s Curse and Brick Rick for the CPC.

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