I accidently told someone that was mithering me to F-OFF at my work place. I wanted to tell them the nice way, but I've broken myself of late and told them to F-OFF.
I'm massively stressed at the moment, and don't want them to think it's anything personal... but obviously they've taken it hard. I tried to apologise, but was basically told to shut up and go away. Only right, I feel.
Help??? :-[
That's too bad! ??? Sometimes the best way to deal with a situation like that, is to leave it alone and let time sort it out. Unfortunately there's no easy one way solution given the severity of it. I was on the other end of that at my old workplace and I simply never forgave them, though it was clear they were nasty and never got anything back from them in terms of an appology, but for days on end I felt so mad at them cause they were clearly in the wrong.
Quote from: ukmarkh on 11:49, 15 September 10
I accidently told someone that was mithering me to F-OFF at my work place. I wanted to tell them the nice way, but I've broken myself of late and told them to F-OFF.
I'm massively stressed at the moment, and don't want them to think it's anything personal... but obviously they've taken it hard. I tried to apologise, but was basically told to shut up and go away. Only right, I feel.
Help??? :-[
You tried to apologise to them direct, but they are hurt by what you said, so they will not listen.
Now you need to go to H.R. or your manager, or both and explain the situation.
I am sure the other person will probably do the same from their point of view.
You already tried talking to them, maybe also consider e-mailing an explanation, it may work. But it may not, and this will take some days to resolve.
Think how you would feel if you had the same, you'd be hurt too.
So be proactive, but you've got to discuss it with H.R. and/or your manager, maybe then they can bring you both together, or talk to you seperately to resolve this.
Not knowing the exact situation it happened in, your type of work, your position at the company and their position, it's difficult to give 100% accurate advise. Generally, you shouldn't try to fix things immediately, because they are still pissed off with you. Let it settle for 24 hours and then explain to them in an e-mail that you were stressed, you wouldn't normally react that harshly and that it was out of character for you, with a closing sentence that you hope it won't negatively impact your working relationship with them in the future and that you are truly sorry for over-reacting.
The 24 hour delay is important, it also shows that you are not indifferent about the whole thing and that it is still on your mind the next day (comes across more genuine)
Bryce.
Of course... two sides to every story.
I'll try the 24hr thing... but since my last post, my collegue reported the incident and I've basically been interviewed by management about what transpired, and asked to give my version. I've been told that once all the information has been gathered, and dependent on the other party involved... an investigation might happen.
Maybe it's time for me to move on, as this place could be bringing out the worst in me.
Quote from: ukmarkh on 11:49, 15 September 10
I accidently told someone that was mithering me to F-OFF at my work place. I wanted to tell them the nice way, but I've broken myself of late and told them to F-OFF.
I'm massively stressed at the moment, and don't want them to think it's anything personal... but obviously they've taken it hard. I tried to apologise, but was basically told to shut up and go away. Only right, I feel.
Help??? :-[
Take it easy! Really! Nobody can be everyones best friend. And if they bother you, then they are also responsible for this situation. You tried to talk to them, that's showing good will. And that's ok. Time will heal anything else.
Now forget about these small things in live! Nobody lost a leg or teets. So forget it.
Focus on the important things in live! And think positive, remember the CPC and share time with a nice girl. That will bring you to good moods. Hold on good times, forget bad times.
Live brings us enought stuff that makes us struggle, so we shouldn't support live in doning that ;-)
May the sun_shine 25 hours a day for you!
Sheesh... investigation? Wtf...
I've dealt with huge amounts of stress in the workplace. I've cussed and be cussed at, but everybody really new it was the tension and nothing more than that - nothing personal. Each time, we'd have coffee as usual together the next morning.
Indeed, if the other party doesn't accept the apology one should try talking to their manager or HR proactively, but that's academic for you now...
Keeping my fingers crossed for you. Do let us know how it went...
If it was a one off incident (which I assume it was) then escalating it to an 'investigation' is just silly.
An email explaining your actions is not a good idea as these things should always be done face to face. Explain you were under a lot of pressure and it was a one off incident and you are sorry for any offence caused. If the other person, management or HR want to take it any further than that then they are just wasting everyone's time.
Guess it depends on where you work really... if someone told me to f**k off I wouldn't be the slightest bit worried ;)
Thinking about the situation which happened to myself, it wasn't so much being told to "F-OFF" that I received, but the words which followed it which was attacking me as an individual. Essentially that is Workplace Bullying, "F-OFF" may fall into that category, though in my opinion attacking someone individually is far worse.
Unfortunately I just don't understand this "Don't take it personally", if you do something wrong and someones not happy about it, naturally they will complain to that person (if they know who arranged that). How can you not take it personally if the discussion is argumentative? I think the only way to avoid that awkward situation is to be straight to the other person, but calm at the same time and reassuring. After all a Happy worker is a productive worker!!
Quote from: ukmarkh on 15:27, 15 September 10
Maybe it's time for me to move on, as this place could be bringing out the worst in me.
If that's the case, you can have some more fun and tell management to FRO too :)
Seriously, when I use to work in London and I was seriously hung-over, I told my boss to do just that when he told me to cut & paste 20 lines of code. He actually took it quite well.
I've been told I'll get a written warning and that will be the end of it. I've also been told that it wasn't so much the fact that I swore, but who I swore at that has gotten me into deep water.
This person has had run in's with a few other people in the past, and they've come out worse. I've never had any problems with anyone else.
Anyway, the warning will stay on my file for 9 months. So now i'm stuck here as another company will see this on my file.
I'd rather take a full on punch in the poss than have to go through this.
Quote from: ukmarkh on 16:27, 16 September 10
I've been told I'll get a written warning and that will be the end of it. I've been told that it wasn't so much the fact that I swore, but who I swore at that has gotten me in deep water.
This person has had run in's with a few other people in the past, and they've come out worse. I've never had any problems with anyone else.
Anyway, the warning will stay on my file for 9 months. So now i'm stuck here as another company will see this on my file.
hmm a written warning seems harsh, but well, some companies will go that far.
unlucky.
but having read a few contracts I can say this response is to be expected. I was more expecting a verbal warning though.
try not to do it again, or otherwise, a certain number of written warnings and then they can sack you ;)
and yes, a future company will see it on your record.
If I handed my notice in now, would they still be able to put the warning on my record? I think HR are waiting for the head of IT to come back from hols.
Quote from: ukmarkh on 16:38, 16 September 10
If I handed my notice in now, would they still be able to put the warning on my record? Apparantly HR are waiting for the head of IT to come back from hols.
not sure.
if you gave them as reference they could still mention it to your future company.
if they are waiting for head of IT to come then maybe the judgement could be reduced.
You could start at a new place, only for the new HR to end up contacting the HR of this company, finding out something you didn't mention, and then you could be sacked for not disclosing it.
(I've not actually been in this position, but I know of situations were things related to this kind of thing have happened and also where not discolosing information could make things difficult).
Sound like you brits are taking work to serious. Still having problems with classes and almighty bosses? Sounds weird for my that comes from a different culture. (Norway)
A complaint filed just because you told someone too fuck off... "Shakes head" and don't understand
Quote from: ivarf on 18:07, 16 September 10
Sound like you brits are taking work to serious. Still having problems with classes and almighty bosses? Sounds weird for my that comes from a different culture. (Norway)
A complaint filed just because you told someone too fuck off... "Shakes head" and don't understand
I like the sound of Norway!!! Do they like Brits? ;)
Quote from: ukmarkh on 20:24, 16 September 10
I like the sound of Norway!!! Do they like Brits? ;)
If they take their keen interest in retro and Amstrad with them, then that should work out very well ;)
Ouch, nasty dude - sorry to hear that.
I take it the company you work for is a corporate / multinational type thing? ie with 'human resources' staff and managers that go through all the bullshi... I mean 'standard procedures in these cases'? Everything by the book...
Even so this is unnecessarily harsh, it should have been a verbal warning at best (unless you had received a couple before this). F***ing jobsworths.
I was going to say although irrelevant now, is to write a full letter of apology to the person in question and also to the HR manager - the usual 'I was under a lot of stress, problems at home bullshit sob story, it will never happen again, sorry sorry sorry blah blah' usually does the trick.
I wouldn't worry too much about the 'written warning' in terms of your next job, (1) it depends on who at the company gives you a reference and (2) most places don't actually bother checking references at least if your CV is decent enough. I had a written warning given to me at my previous company over something insignificant (long story) but my friendly line manager who was a decent chap happily agreed to be my reference and my next employer didn't even bother to speak to him.
A few of those written warning statements would be great here. It's simply terrible that people criticise you here before they really look into the purpose of my work and Tradies are always frown upon in my perception because they always make indecent comments at ladies walking by or whatever and always have to feel bad for it cause I work in the same workplace, only where I work people are always buggying me and question the work I do. They should be some method for dealing with it, adopt a soccer approach and give them a Yellow Card as a warning and if they persist, issue a Red Card which means every worker downs tools and escorts that person off a work site!!
Quote from: ukmarkh on 16:27, 16 September 10
I've been told I'll get a written warning and that will be the end of it. I've also been told that it wasn't so much the fact that I swore, but who I swore at that has gotten me into deep water.
A written warning for swearing at somebody?! Sounds like the management and the other person involved are both tw*ts!
Time to move on...
And if it comes up at any future job interviews then just be honest about it. If someone doesn't realise that people might swear now and then when working under pressure then they're not worth working for in my opinion.
Not only is a 'written warning' fantastically absurd, but... a record? And one that a future employer can see??? Where the frak does that exist? Who keeps this record? How on earth can other employers see it?
It's mind-boggling. I've only worked for multinationals and I've never seen anything like this. But, really, a criminal record that others can see - I can't even begin to understand how this works!!!
Quote from: Gryzor on 10:28, 17 September 10
Not only is a 'written warning' fantastically absurd, but... a record? And one that a future employer can see??? Where the frak does that exist? Who keeps this record? How on earth can other employers see it?
It's mind-boggling. I've only worked for multinationals and I've never seen anything like this. But, really, a criminal record that others can see - I can't even begin to understand how this works!!!
a written warning I think is an over reaction, and by the sounds of it, probably down to the particular individual who was told to f-off off, and their importance in this company.
Normally a current employer keeps information about you, including notes about written and verbal warnings, including your national insurance and other work related information.
This is your record.
Then when you go to a new company and you supply the previous company as a reference, then the new company could request information about you from the old company and the old company could offer the information about these warnings.
This I expect is the only way that new companies can see or know about information from old companies.
This is not a criminal record. This is more to give new companies a overall idea of what you are like as an employee and how you work within other companies.
so, I guess it all depends on who you ask to be a reference, and whether the new company also asks H.R. and whether they decide to provide this information.
It is true that some companies will not chase references, but then others will. Depends on the company, and I suppose depends on what they think of you. They may do this out of practice, or maybe they think you are withholding information, or are unsure why you left the other company.
I suppose the best is to mention it to the new company, more than likely they will probably understand.
I understand what you say, but it's still totally weird.
Here in Greece (and, from experience, other countries as well) references are NOT asked from HR (it totally doesn't make any sense) but from your superiors. And no 'records' ever change hands. It'll either be a phone call or an email or something. HR records are supposed to be totally confidential, and personal notes (such as behavioral notices etc) are not part of the insurance etc details. What's more, whenever I've got a new job there's really no need at all to ask the previous employee for those details - wtf, don't you guys have national security numbers over there? That's all an employer needs to know...
Finally, practically speaking, an employer NEVER ever asks for references from your current employer. How the f*ck would this work, by letting your employer know you're looking elsewhere?
So, you see, this is full of holes...
Hmm, hard to determine what operations are going on - just for fun someone should start a Workplace conspiracies thread just to see where it goes. If you like start it off blank! :laugh:
Hmm you'd be very surprised what employee information is passed around amongst companies - but I'm talking about the corporations and multinationals here.
It's something that annoys me ... does this not go against the Data Protection Act at least? But then check your contract and what the small print says....
I do know of a situation where a friend of mine was sacked from small company #1, applied at a rival small company #2 yet #2 still rang up #1 asking for a 'reference' and the boss of #1 told them he was a useless shite and didn't get the job. To be fair ... my mate *was* a useless shite ;D but just taken on his CV I'm sure he would have got the job if a phone call wasn't made. I feel sorry for the dude several months later he's still unemployed as there's only a few companies in this industry around this area. So this shit really angers me sometimes.
I suppose if you're for example buying a second hand car, first thing you should do is get a HPI check done to see what nasty history lurks on a car .... but that's just a 'possession' and something that could end up killing you! I don't think it's fair when it comes to someones job, life and being able to earn a living - people make mistakes, learn from it and change. It's flawed anyway as your reference could be a from a 'friend' at your previous place that gives you a glowing recommendation when you're not that (what does he care?)... although some employers will just ring up the HR department regardless.
Xyphoe wrote:
I do know of a situation where a friend of mine was sacked from small company #1, applied at a rival small company #2 yet #2 still rang up #1 asking for a 'reference' and the boss of #1 told them he was a useless shite and didn't get the job. To be fair ... my mate *was* a useless shite ;D but just taken on his CV I'm sure he would have got the job if a phone call wasn't made. I feel sorry for the dude several months later he's still unemployed as there's only a few companies in this industry around this area. So this shit really angers me sometimes.
Wouldn't be the first time that's happened. I've heard stories where people have left their job and have tried hard to get a job elsewhere without even knowing about their References spreading absolute rubbish about them. The job I'm doing now and my previous one were so impressed with my qualifications that I was given the job no questions asked!! ??? My previous boss was good enough to offer a Written Reference which I reckon if someone offers it, then you should take it cause it can come in handy if you need it again in future. :)
Even in a big organisation, the 'record' and a 'written warning' will only ever go so far as to affect your employment within that organisation. If they're looking to get rid for example, then all those notes will help them make a case for dismissal. I'd be stunned if such a thing ever made it onto a reference, a company can get into far more trouble by supplying a 'bad' reference than by refusing to provide a reference at all.
It's sounds rather more like a case of someone senior insisting 'something must be done' and HR taking the safe route of doing 'something' whilst hoping that's enough to get everyone involved to leave it. I wouldn't worry about it, take a deep breath and just try to avoid loosing your rag with someone high up in future.
I think Andy nailed it...
The case about the guy going from small company #1 to #2 and getting a bad reference, while unfortunate, is totally different and irrelevant!
Quote from: Gryzor on 08:31, 21 September 10
I think Andy nailed it...
The case about the guy going from small company #1 to #2 and getting a bad reference, while unfortunate, is totally different and irrelevant!
It's not (irrelevant) though because it quite clearly happens, although tends to be unlikely. Yes companies can get in 'trouble' for a bad reference but they would have to be unfairly slagging somone off.
Anyway, I don't want this to go round in circles and worry Mark - I believe my point was seek your reference from a friendly co-worker above you and if possible like someone suggested get the reference in writing and there's nowt to worry about :)
has the whole world especially men gone tootie frootie and lost its balls???
we're men not women
guys at my work are always in my face or doing stupid things and i've told them to F OFF many a time.
recently a bloke employee was having a cry cause someone had told him to do a job properly I cant stand cry babies.... "F***EN toughen up get a thick skin and lift your game princess your here to work not sook and sulk....
key here is you could probably get away with it saying it to a bloke but saying it to a lady your probably going to be F***ED
like rafa benitez said recently We have a saying in Spanish, which is: 'White liquid in a bottle has to be milk"
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Took me quite a while to get the right kind of work I was looking for, I personally hate it when I hear about Gen Y's being the fussiest people on the planet when it comes to what they expect to get after doing an Uni course or getting a Degree. Having all that stuff is one thing, though applying it out in a work field maybe another. I can see some advantage in having a piece of paper, though on it's own with nothing backing it up with regard to what's relevant to it, it doesn't look good for anyone.
In our workplace I made some of my own personal rules when dealing with others. This ain't company rules, this is my own rules I set out in my head (nothing written), unfortunately I may have broken a couple because you fall into some kind of trap which I didn't see coming, this is the hardest ones. Sometimes if someone is bossy you can see this coming by the tone of their voice, unfortunately me hard of hearing sometimes misses this until their into their bossy tone. I'm trying to counter act this by taking the advantage of a situation (particularly if it's a Lovely lady! ;D ). I have all kinds of emotional tunes as well as being a mystery can be good, but too much is a bad thing, though sometimes people get carried away and devolge stuff you don't want to know. Whinging is Fatal, Language is unnecessarily cause that's Whinging too, some people will actually drop the language when dealing with you, others seem to have it in them though apply less when taking to someone who rarely swears. Apart from that just get along.
The only problem I can see from all that, is how you set other people's expectations around you. Naturally you have to be good from the start, and coming in and setting a tone in a person can really set the perspective on how others see you. Negative tones are so easily generated and can set so many people on the backfoot early as such that trying to change that perspective can be a battle!
Having said all that I've probably hung myself on these forums a few times! :-[
Quote from: cpc4eva on 19:53, 22 October 10
recently a bloke employee was having a cry cause someone had told him to do a job properly I cant stand cry babies.... "F***EN toughen up get a thick skin and lift your game princess your here to work not sook and sulk....
Do not judge, mate. You never know, for instance, if he's got a child with a horrible decease and he needs the job terribly so he's afraid he'll be losing it... Don't judge.
The effect of such act can depend on the kind of job/workplace...
also was it your superior, inferior or equal (jobwise )?
Well, in big companies with a lot of hierarchy, this can lead to some problems (or not really if you apologize well and explain...)
In small companies, you get a bit of grudge from you co-worker (the F****ed-off one)... the Boss may remind you that you gotta keep it calm and polite, or even scream a slight bit at you, and that's all.
I mean it's no more like in School where to swear to a teacher was the end of the world (sort off...)
A good managment knows the workplace can also be a stressing environment...
Depends if they are human or not that much.
But hey, we all can have good days and bad days...
This is not like you physically aggressed the sucker... Yet it may differ from one country to another to.
Good luck.
MacDeath wrote:
The effect of such act can depend on the kind of job/workplace...
also was it your superior, inferior or equal (jobwise )?
If it came from my superior I'd probably be concerned, though if it came from someone who was clearly senior to me (in age), drove a fancy car and has more success, then that would rub me up the wrong way - they could be inferior or equal, it wouldn't matter I would still dispise them. If it came from some punk teenager, it wouldn't worry me a bit! ;D