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General Category => Other retro => Topic started by: ComSoft6128 on 12:54, 05 July 21

Title: Picture perfect: The fight to preserve retro resolutions in the 4K era
Post by: ComSoft6128 on 12:54, 05 July 21
Article from Gamesradar.com by Nick Thorpe.
Worth reading..........


https://www.gamesradar.com/picture-perfect-the-fight-to-preserve-retro-resolutions-in-the-4k-era/
Title: Re: Picture perfect: The fight to preserve retro resolutions in the 4K era
Post by: Gryzor on 16:15, 14 July 21
Interesting, yes.

Lately I've been following an account on Twitter that does comparisons between a modern output and an original CRT output and the results are jaw-dropping, I never realised the effect the CRTs have is so big. To the extend that scanline filters seem to me, now, like very cheap methods that give pretty miniscule results... the way the pixels and sub-pixels interoperated (is this a word?) took things to a whole different level.
Title: Re: Picture perfect: The fight to preserve retro resolutions in the 4K era
Post by: eto on 16:28, 14 July 21
Interesting, yes.

Lately I've been following an account on Twitter that does comparisons between a modern output and an original CRT output and the results are jaw-dropping, I never realised the effect the CRTs have is so big. To the extend that scanline filters seem to me, now, like very cheap methods that give pretty miniscule results... the way the pixels and sub-pixels interoperated (is this a word?) took things to a whole different level.


sounds interesting. do you have a link to that guy?
Title: Re: Picture perfect: The fight to preserve retro resolutions in the 4K era
Post by: Gryzor on 16:41, 14 July 21
Been trying to remember his handle, would have done already :D If it comes to me I'll post it here.
Title: Re: Picture perfect: The fight to preserve retro resolutions in the 4K era
Post by: Gryzor on 16:42, 14 July 21
A here we go!

https://twitter.com/CRTpixels
Title: Re: Picture perfect: The fight to preserve retro resolutions in the 4K era
Post by: Bryce on 16:57, 14 July 21
The unsharpness that CRT's display is mainly due to pixel-bleed, ie: the colour of one pixel blending with its neighbours. This is why Plasma TV's are a little closer to CRT than TFT screens are. Unfortunately 15in 4:3 Plasma screens were never a thing.  >:(

Bryce.
Title: Re: Picture perfect: The fight to preserve retro resolutions in the 4K era
Post by: m_dr_m on 00:07, 15 July 21
By the way there were many threads open on the subject, and despite or because of that I have a hard time finding any recommended solutions/brands/models to have a nice and accurate 50Hz display on a flat screen. Well I mean accurate regarding to the original look and feel on a CTM. E.g.:
 * Slightly blurry but not so much you cannot see the middle bar in `m` character in mode 2).
 * No noticeable delay (some raster lines are fine, a whole frame, meh).
 * TBD
If it's accurate it shall be nice!


I am willing to make a wiki page about that with curated informations (although it seems my), any canonical and reliable (*) pointers would be appreciated.
(*) Apparently some people are blind to some degree of flickering / jerking scrolls.
Title: Re: Picture perfect: The fight to preserve retro resolutions in the 4K era
Post by: andycadley on 11:37, 15 July 21
I'm not sure there is a modern display that will do that, they're just built to too high a quality.


I think 4K and 200Hz monitors, as they become commonplace, will give emulation authors a much better opportunity to realistically recreate the appearance of old school monitors.
Title: Re: Picture perfect: The fight to preserve retro resolutions in the 4K era
Post by: Gryzor on 12:24, 15 July 21
The unsharpness that CRT's display is mainly due to pixel-bleed, ie: the colour of one pixel blending with its neighbours. This is why Plasma TV's are a little closer to CRT than TFT screens are. Unfortunately 15in 4:3 Plasma screens were never a thing.  >:(

Bryce.


Yeah that was the interaction I was talking about. It's amazing, what effects can be had with that!!

Haven't seen a plasma screen in almost 20 years and certainly not attached to an old machine, but IIRC they already had pretty high resolutions back then?
Title: Re: Picture perfect: The fight to preserve retro resolutions in the 4K era
Post by: Bryce on 13:02, 15 July 21
They had high resolution, but they also "suffered" from pixel colour-bleed which gave them a smoother colour transition / blend like the CRT's did.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Picture perfect: The fight to preserve retro resolutions in the 4K era
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 17:52, 15 July 21
They had high resolution, but they also "suffered" from pixel colour-bleed which gave them a smoother colour transition / blend like the CRT's did.

Bryce.


Plasmas also suffered bad burn in too. I made the mistake of playing Guitar Hero on a plasma only to see the buttons burned in at the bottom.
The worst was the obnoxious Comedy Central logo permanently burnt in the top right hand corner due to my ex's addiction to Two and a half men!  :picard:
Title: Re: Picture perfect: The fight to preserve retro resolutions in the 4K era
Post by: Bryce on 20:45, 15 July 21

Plasmas also suffered bad burn in too. I made the mistake of playing Guitar Hero on a plasma only to see the buttons burned in at the bottom.
The worst was the obnoxious Comedy Central logo permanently burnt in the top right hand corner due to my ex's addiction to Two and a half men!  :picard:

Burn in on plasma TV's was only temporary as far as I know. I also had Channel-logo burn-in on our Plasma TV, but they all went away if you avoided that channel for a few weeks.

Bryce.
Title: Re: Picture perfect: The fight to preserve retro resolutions in the 4K era
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 12:06, 16 July 21
Burn in on plasma TV's was only temporary as far as I know. I also had Channel-logo burn-in on our Plasma TV, but they all went away if you avoided that channel for a few weeks.

Bryce.

Later plasmas weren't so bad, but earlier ones were woeful for it. And the CC logo was etched permanently into my old 42" Nothing would get rid of it. :(
Title: Re: Picture perfect: The fight to preserve retro resolutions in the 4K era
Post by: Gryzor on 16:16, 16 July 21
Wasn't there a period when channels would rotate the corner they'd show their logo on?
Title: Re: Picture perfect: The fight to preserve retro resolutions in the 4K era
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 16:21, 16 July 21
Wasn't there a period when channels would rotate the corner they'd show their logo on?

I honestly couldn't tell you, I don't watch a lot of TV but I do remember from around 06/07 a lot of stations changed their logos to a more transparent grey / dull white.
Not Comedy Central though, oh no... they still kept their obnoxious giant red thing in there!

(https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/logopedia/images/3/34/Comedy_Central_UK.svg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/483?cb=20110204173848)

I grew to detest this bastard thing after a while!