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General Category => Other retro => Topic started by: Gryzor on 09:39, 11 January 22

Title: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Gryzor on 09:39, 11 January 22
I'm sure you'd have gotten a second house on the royalties😬
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: reidrac on 09:56, 11 January 22
It makes sense for them: more offer makes it more interesting for their customer paying a subscription.

If I really cared about making money, do you think I would be making games for any 8-bit system? LOL
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Gryzor on 10:59, 11 January 22
Got a point there :D
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 12:48, 11 January 22
Quote from: Gryzor on 07:58, 11 January 22
To be honest I got excited till I saw it's an Antstream exclusive... what has the world come to??

My sentiments exactly. Anything with those two words in it can get in the fucking bin as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Nich on 23:34, 11 January 22
According to the text that accompanies the trailer video, it will be "later... released to the public on tape and disk". How much later, I don't know.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: lmimmfn on 23:52, 11 January 22
Quote from: Nich on 23:34, 11 January 22
According to the text that accompanies the trailer video, it will be "later... released to the public on tape and disk". How much later, I don't know.
My problem with this is the concept of monitization of retro gaming, especially for new games where licensing isnt a problem(im fine with that model for Mame ROMs).

Im fine paying for retro games development for downloads or boxed versions of games, its great to support devs!


However going with Antstream for subscription service is BS even if later provided for download.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Gryzor on 14:10, 12 January 22
I buy most of the new releases, either in physical format or on, say, itch.io, to support the devs. But this... hmmm...

I was a backer of Antstream. I know many people don't see the point in it, but I thought, if it's not too bad it's actually worth it for the convenience of not setting anything up and not having hardware lying around. However I only used it a handful of times during my year-long membership because the title selection was shite (and no CPC in sight back then) and the interface was bad beyond logic.

Anyhow, the point is, I do see the point in a service like this, but... launching platform exclusives? Oh come on :D
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Xyphoe on 04:45, 14 January 22
Guys, it's just getting released their exclusively first! Everyone later will get a tape/disk file to play on emulators. For free.

It's a free game, on a free service, that's anyway coming free to everyone shortly after.
I don't get the issue or where monetisation comes in here?  :picard:


Just so we're clear this is YellowBelly's game, he's kept everything secret/hidden from me apart from the 2 screens you see in the vid. I just wrote a tune for the game (again that you hear in the trailer). I'm just honoured he put me in the game.

So YellowBelly is best to answer here rather than me. However I'm 99% sure he's not getting any money from Antstream for it (some independent devs can negotiate that, but I think it's extremely rare or never happened before).

The one thing Antstream is really good for is that it has online leaderboards that update live for people's score in a game. Special challenges can also be set.
The game has been designed as a high score / score attack game - with online leaderboards and challenges - with the ability of Antstream to do that exactly in mind.

That's something that's actually kinda cool, and we hold weekly tournaments in my community and on Twitch around games in Antstream because of this feature, that's proving quite popular and good fun. I guess this was the seed of the idea here... to have an online Amstrad game that we can all play together and compete against each other!
(It's something I've been desperate to find a solution for, and I've been working with a guy to get an 'online emulator' sort of thing setup so we can have 2 player games playing with or against each other online - eg imagine playing co-op Target Renegade with your mate in another city/country! Anyway I digress...)

At present, the plan I believe is for the Amstrad emulator version to have additional content too.

But anyway, YellowBelly is just trying to get more exposure for the Amstrad and his game. Before his Bug's Quest game, there was ZERO Amstrad content on Antstream, and we started a mini campaign for this a long while back. YellowBelly got the 1st Amstrad game there, and soon will be getting the 3rd one on there - and isn't taking any money from Antstream for it.

Hope that clears it up, apologies if the trailer wasn't clear - but that was the script to go with for the 1st teaser, and we were going to release more details as the release date approaches.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: eto on 11:33, 14 January 22
Honestly, even if he gets some money, that is totally fine.

Everybody is probably aware that you have to invest time into a game, but there is also money that you have to invest. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Directly or indirectly.

E.g. I needed a new Laptop as my old one got very hot when running an emulator, which was not feasible for me to continue with (otherwise it would have been fine to keep the other one). Also for the artwork which I couldn't do myself, I had to pay licenses just to be sure I won't get sued if I publish it on my web page. Finally for the physical edition, I had to buy some stuff including some tools to properly make them. Of course I can use all of this for other stuff than the game or for the next one - but it wouldn't have been bought if it wouldn't have been for the game.

Probably for others it would be less as they already have the right tools, can do the artwork, or don't bother to make a physical edition. But even the Pizzas they got delivered while programming at night are something, that is an investment. And it's fine if there is at least some kind of monetary support afterwards.

So if anyone releases the game and you like it - at least every now and then - reward the effort - buy the physical release or send a Paypal donation for a coffee - and at least don't judge anyone for getting a bit of the money back, especially not, if you still get the game for free.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: yellowbelly on 12:16, 14 January 22
Wow, I don't understand the negativity on here.
RE: Monitisation, i Gave this game to Antstream and get no royalties.
I raised over £3,000 selling copies of my previous game "Bugs Quest" which all went to Macmillan Cancer.
So this is no fiendish way to make money.
As Xyphoe said, the game was made with his community challenges in mind and engineered this way to run on Antstream for that purpose.
DSK files and CDT files will become available at a later date as i change it to run on real hardware, so including keyboard controls etc.
This is only my 2nd game i have ever made so sorry it doesn't live up to your standards not having masked sprites.
whether you like or dislike Antstream, I thought people would just be happy for another new game for our beloved CPC, but apparently not.
Yellowbelly

Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 12:30, 14 January 22
(https://wompampsupport.azureedge.net/fetchimage?siteId=7575&v=2&jpgQuality=100&width=700&url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Fnewsfeed%2F000%2F353%2F279%2Fe31.jpg)
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Gryzor on 14:24, 14 January 22
Opinions.

Monetisation? No problem with that. I have bought most of the games that were sold, either physical or purely digital. When on itch.io I always pay more than the asking price. I dislike Antstream, and lack of CPC games is one reason (as if it's going to open up by a time-limited exclusive). It bothers me because I have to *pay* for another service I don't want or need instead of paying the dev directly. Extra features? Cool, I like that, doesn't mean it couldn't be released outside of Antstream.

But I'm not being overly sensitive about it, moving on etc, so I wouldn't understand the opposite reaction either.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 15:48, 14 January 22
This thread could turn into "Gryzor's nightmare"  :laugh:
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Gryzor on 15:56, 14 January 22
Someone please do that game. Do include a toddler refusing to eat or pick up the stuff he throws around, and an engineer boss who thinks he knows about marketing.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 16:29, 14 January 22
Quote from: Gryzor on 15:56, 14 January 22
Someone please do that game. Do include a toddler refusing to eat or pick up the stuff he throws around, and an engineer boss who thinks he knows about marketing.


Bad day at the home office, T?  ;) :laugh:
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: norecess on 17:24, 14 January 22
Go go go @Xyphoe (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=109) !! I think you are doing an amazing work !
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Xyphoe on 21:56, 14 January 22
Quote from: Gryzor on 14:24, 14 January 22
It bothers me because I have to *pay* for another service I don't want or need instead of paying the dev directly
Hold up, dude - you are aware that Antstream is free to use and play for everyone right?

They dropped the subscription thing well over 2 years ago now.
Instead you get some adverts pop-up in the interface, which can be removed by paying.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: lmimmfn on 22:37, 14 January 22
I also didnt realise Antstream was free now, also didnt realise YellowBelly has extra work to do to make it work on actual hardware.


Most of us are Amstrad hardware nuts and pretty much exclusively play CPC games on original hardware. Thats where the crux of the matter came from but based on the posts its understandable now
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Gryzor on 09:52, 15 January 22
I stand corrected on that front, didn't know. With this model I find I have some use for it-quickly check out a game (if it's on the platform). But emulators are much more accessible...
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Gryzor on 10:16, 15 January 22
Mmmyeah doesn't work for me. Very restrictive regarding gems and I can't watch ads on my ad blocking device...
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Vyper68 on 15:59, 15 January 22
Don't you think you're being overly sensitive over this? People don't always have the same opinion as you. There are others on here who would support your original plan to put this on Antstream.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: yellowbelly on 16:35, 15 January 22
@viper68

If you look at it from my point of view, Xenomorph shared the video, it was then attacked immediatly by a moderator who represents CPC Wiki, making various assumptions and
criticisms alongside others. I am just a Guy who wants to get my CPC games out and played by a veriety of people. I make NO money out of it and thought i would be welcome here but the opposite is apparent. Anyone on here that wish to get the game etc can do so via another platform, Xyphoe regularly updates on his YT channel.
CPC Wiki and those that represent it (moderators) have shown they don't want my input or games by going straight on the attack. This is my 1st proper interaction with CPC Wiki and My 1st impression isnt too good.
any way i have 2 more cpc games to make before the end of the year and need to focus on them next.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Gryzor on 17:06, 15 January 22
An "attack"? Lol wat 🙄
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 17:27, 15 January 22
@yellowbelly (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2786) You know I've no beef with you, but the harsh opinions were more aimed at antstream than the game itself. If you can can point out where the actual game itself was criticised or bashed in any way shape or form from any of us, feel free to quote it.


Truth if the matter is, a lot of people aren't mad on Antstream, I'm one of them and I'll stand by it. I find it awkward as hell even with the ads. But from what I gather that's where the slamming was directed at.


Bit of an overreaction to withdraw contributions and information to the forum when all that was criticised was the platform, don't you think?
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Gryzor on 17:30, 15 January 22
Thanks-don't have the time to write as much, but I'd put my name under your post!
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 17:33, 15 January 22
Quote from: Gryzor on 17:30, 15 January 22Thanks-don't have the time to write as much, but I'd put my name under your post!



No worries T, the fact that I'm the one being the voice of reason here terrifies me more than it does anyone else, trust me!  :laugh:
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Gryzor on 17:40, 15 January 22
Oh is it not "the opinion of CPCwiki"? Don't we have one of these?
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Vyper68 on 19:59, 15 January 22
Like Shaun the way I read it was most people were not happy with it being on Antstream, I have no experience of that platform so I don't have a view either way, there was one criticism about the sprites but that was another programmers opinion, and at the end of the day it's an opinion. It's a shame it got to this point. I would say that writing a game does not automatically mean it's entitled to a positive response.
If you think this is bad look at the Prince of Persia thread on Atari Age that was/is toxic.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Gryzor on 21:25, 15 January 22
Oh, may I also say that nobody "represents" CPCwiki?
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Xyphoe on 21:46, 15 January 22
 :(

Well, this is most disappointing and a shame.

And it's not 'about the game' either.

I'm guessing that like me, YellowBelly was waiting for the penny to drop and a 'sorry' to appear from Gryzor and maybe others when it was realised Antstream is infact a free service, and when that wasn't forthcoming - I guess that's prompted YellowBelly to write what he has there. Because this all started because it was wrongly assumed Antstream is a paid service to access, and someone will be making money off this game. They won't. And also that it'll only appear there - it won't.

I'm sure this could all be smoothed over and forgotten though, as long as we're grown up and not dig our heels into the ground.

It really isn't a good look though. There's a lot of people now, not on this forum, but in the Amstrad community that seen this topic (view count rocketed up past 1000 views last couple of days) and are similarly not impressed. It's not like the game has been slagged off, or anything dramatic like that - however it's not really about that, and really isn't a good impression of the CPC Wiki Forum which is the heart of the Amstrad community.

And I'll explain from my viewpoint at least, but I think some context is needed here too.

Firstly just to reiterate -

The game is being released on Antstream first, then a 'community edition' version of the game with more content is being released as a standard tape/disk file for use in emulators, real hardware or whatever device/software of your choosing.

This is all entirely free.

No paywall like on itch.io you can do to download the game, it'll be free.

Antstream is a retro gaming streaming service, and it is FREE to anyone to sign up and start using and playing on right away.

The 'Antstream version' of the game is tailored towards it's global high score tables, and global tournaments and special challenges that can be set up. The 'Community version' will have more content, modes, ability to redefine keys and code so it will load from tape/disk. Two slightly different versions of the game, that will be available for everyone.

So hopefully we are clear on that now yup?

Regarding Antstream, whether you like it or not, it's becoming a fairly big deal and is substantially growing in size and player base. It's perhaps a bigger deal than you realise now. Initially I admit I too wasn't keen on it, and wasn't really interested when it first launched with a paid subscription needed to join in - I walked away from it. When it changed and became free to everyone - I dipped my toe in and also had a rocky start with it with various controller issues and laggy servers. But the regular tournaments and online leaderboards drew me back in. Over time things have substantially improved - bugs and issues are getting regularly fixed and improved, and lag issues I previously suffered are have nearly all but gone away. Even when streaming.

However my biggest gripe all this time was 'Why is there no Amstrad on here? Speccy and C64 get a look in, why not the CPC?'. The same gripe Gryzor stated he also had.

I started a mini campaign probably over 2 years ago now to get them to put Amstrad on there. And during all this there's been a lot of people behind the scenes hard at work trying to convince and help them with the technical side of things, to make that happen. In the end it was YellowBelly with his Bug's Quest game and a lot of arm twisting and schmoozing from people in the scene like RetroUnlim that made that happen - finally we got an Amstrad game on there October 2021.

The next one will be Xyphoe's Nightmare, and Antstream have really gone all in for this and it's looking like there'll be global tournaments and other things that'll put it on the front page there in front of many thousands of eyes. THIS IS REALLY COOL STUFF. (I would actually encourage other coders now to approach them with the same, for the exposure if they're not intending to sell the game on physical format.) And so YellowBelly has worked many long hours over many months to make that happen, with it being the VERY FIRST game out of ANY platform to be tailored and written for Antstream and what it can do with high score logging and high score tables, challenges and tournaments (and in addition of course an Amstrad 'community' version as mentioned above for anyone and everyone that doesn't use Antstream...). The top guys there and their PR team are really behind it.

This is actually quite big news.

YellowBelly particularly, and myself outside of this game, is all about getting the Amstrad some more love, attention and respect. We WANTED Amstrad on there. And now we're getting it...

But the first thing you see on the forum about it is 'Antstream sucks' and 'monetisation'.

Meh.

Honestly I really really hope none of the Antstream guys see this thread, because if I were them I'd might be inclined to go 'fuck it, not bothering' when from their end there's actually a ton of work to get the game integrated and working in their system. (Btw ex Ocean / Special FX coder Jim Bagley of Midnight Resistance, Hudson Hawk, Cabal, etc fame is doing the coding work there...)

Maybe now you might understand why YellowBelly is also a bit 'fuck it' with this forum after his first visit here.

And I hope it doesn't put off other people doing new projects either, if their format of choice is going to come under fire - especially now we have Dandanator only releases, etc! "Urgh this sucks I don't want to buy and use Dandanator!"
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Gryzor on 21:54, 15 January 22
TL;DR.

But: sorry about what mate? Antstream IS a paid-for service, just offers an alternative way through ads I cannot watch. I did say that I didn't know that but it's STILL a closed platform I can't be bothered with. Hence my disappointment. Where precisely did I object to someone making money off a game? Please read again and get your facts straight. I'll gladly pay for the game (as if I needed to say it one more time).

Going to read the rest of your post tomorrow.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: reidrac on 21:55, 15 January 22
Quote from: Xyphoe on 21:46, 15 January 22
And I hope it doesn't put off other people doing new projects either, if their format of choice is going to come under fire - especially now we have Dandanator only releases, etc! "Urgh this sucks I don't want to buy and use Dandanator!"

This forum has plenty of examples to put off anybody from making CPC games, and I wouldn't say this thread is one of them. Yet we make new games, isn't it?

I see it as misunderstanding, and it is clear now. Please to make it bigger than it is.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Xyphoe on 22:02, 15 January 22
Quote from: Gryzor on 21:54, 15 January 22
Antstream IS a paid-for service
It really isn't.
If you download a sodoku app on your phone at no charge and are able to play as many sodoku games as you please - but between games there's an advert that's skippable after a few seconds....
Is that a paid for app?
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Gryzor on 22:12, 15 January 22
Erm, I got 230 gems and each play costs 30 gems, so not sure... And as I said twice now, I CAN'T WATCH THE ADS.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 22:46, 15 January 22
Seriously? We're comparing a cartridge that you can *own* and re-write games you like to a "pay or suffer ads" service? Jesus wept!

There is a world of difference between buying add ons for your own hardware and paying or sitting through ads for an emulator! And for what? The privilege of an online high score table?

I'm out of this topic guys. I didn't bother with drama on other platforms, not gonna bother with it here.

Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Xyphoe on 00:03, 16 January 22
No, we're really not Shaun.
We're saying a game author has the right to choose what medium they put their game on. And if other forms and medium are chosen, I hope they too don't get shit on.

Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 00:19, 16 January 22
Quote from: Xyphoe on 00:03, 16 January 22
No, we're really not Shaun.
We're saying a game author has the right to choose what medium they put their game on. And if other forms and medium are chosen, I hope they too don't get shit on.


And I respect that.
It's just unfortunate that said author can't handle the respective feedback from those who aren't fans of said platform. Instead they take it as a personal attack.


As I said initially. I've no problem with YB. But that was a hell of an overreaction!
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Xyphoe on 00:46, 16 January 22
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 00:19, 16 January 22
But that was a hell of an overreaction!

I hear ya.

I took the time to write a lengthy post out above explaining the background behind this game and Antstream's involvement for anyone that cares to read it - if anyone does it will explain exactly why YB is pissed. ie - we're telling them what a wonderful brilliant community the Amstrad one is and we'll all get behind and support it blah blah - but if they saw this thread then well.......... it doesn't look good does it?

Anyway, I'm out.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 00:56, 16 January 22
Quote from: Xyphoe on 00:46, 16 January 22
I hear ya.

I took the time to write a lengthy post out above explaining the background behind this game and Antstream's involvement for anyone that cares to read it - if anyone does it will explain exactly why YB is pissed. ie - we're telling them what a wonderful brilliant community the Amstrad one is and we'll all get behind and support it blah blah - but if they saw this thread then well.......... it doesn't look good does it?

Anyway, I'm out.


Peoples opinions are their own. You can't change them to suit your own causes I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: lmimmfn on 01:15, 16 January 22
Quote from: Xyphoe on 00:03, 16 January 22
No, we're really not Shaun.
We're saying a game author has the right to choose what medium they put their game on. And if other forms and medium are chosen, I hope they too don't get shit on.
Said author can do as they please, but from platform forums i hang out in, ive never witnessed a non native platform taking priority over native, im not trying to be rude or anything i just honestly dont understand the logic behind it.


Kinda difficult to gather community support for a game that doesn't even run on the platform of the community, yes it will eventually but its no different to showcasing a CPC game, then saying its only available on steam and later will be released for the CPC.


Its only a game, im not that into the controversy surrounding it/antstream, i just think this is really strange.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: SkulleateR on 02:11, 16 January 22
Quote from: Xyphoe on 22:02, 15 January 22
It really isn't.
If you download a sodoku app on your phone at no charge and are able to play as many sodoku games as you please - but between games there's an advert that's skippable after a few seconds....
Is that a paid for app?
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


The only thing FREE on Anstream is the signup, everything else is payed service ... anyway, the discussion is pointless since this isn't even a CPC game, it's an Anstream game for now ... if it will arrive someday on the real hardware, it will be a CPC game but for now, nothing of interest (and this is NOT a negative statement about the game itself) !
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: ldaneels on 06:31, 16 January 22
Well, this whole discussion is a bit disingenuous, so let's get some facts straight:

- Antstream can technically be used for free

- there is a paid subscription if you want to go that route

- I swear I saw some paywalls when I first launched Antstream on EGS to check its status (in Cadaver, to save your progress). I don't see it now, but I also had been promoted to supporter (I think, I don't remember the specifics) because I had been there since the begining, so someone with a brand new account should verify this.

- unless you have a subscription, games cost gems to play

- entering tournaments & unlocking achievements cost gems (by unlocking achievements, I mean just that, you still need to complete the achievements - thankfully)

- you can get gems by watching ads...

- or you can get them by purchasing gem packs (if that seems familiar, you'd be right)

Just like all these scummy games on mobile phones, they are only "free to play" in the strictest of sense. In reality they always eventually cost money. Just because you dress your service in shiny clothes doesn't mean the core is not rotten. Also, having followed the evolution of Antstream over the years, the model keeps changing and if you think you will always be able to "play for free", you can forget that right now. How long until you can only watch so many ads a day before it's not possible again? I didn't try because I can't be bothered with checking it out, but I wouldn't be suprised if that was already the case.

I have used Antstream since its inception because I have been very curious about it. I also check periodically on it to see if it got any better (hint, it never gets better) but here are some considerations for anyone interested:

- the performance is extremely poor. Try some shmups (Fever SOS, Pink Sweets...) and you'll find seriously degraded visuals. Performance is alright (although I had some hiccups at times, so your mileage may vary on that), but I'm not so sure about input lag (I'm not best placed to judge that, but the games seem slightly off).

- if I was trying to play modern AAA games, I could understand the technical challenge, but trying to play classic arcade, Amiga, ZX, C64... games, it seems odd that it can't even stream them properly. Heck, it would be a thousand times better to download the game temporarily to launch it locally (encrypt them if you're worried about piracy). It's not like they don't have the license for the games (although I assume they only have license to stream them).

- for reference, I can play Stadia, Xcloud, GeForceNow just fine with very good performance and reasonable input lag.

- the interface is an absolute mess and is borderline useless. Navigating Antstream is one of the most painful experience out there, so unless you know precisely what you want to play, good luck browsing... I accepted it in 2018 because the service was new, but 3 years later it is just as bad as it ever was

- Admitting that you had the fortitude to bookmark all games you are interested in, browsing them is an absolute chore, so back to my previous point.

In short, Antstream is pretty bad on almost every front and there are much better alternatives out there. The only real plus they bring are the achievements and tournaments (don't forget to pay your gems, though - you didn't think it would be that easy). If you are very interested in these and don't know any better, I guess why not, but that's pretty light. I really wanted to love the service & would even have subscribed if the performance & interface were halfway decent but they're not. At this point, all Antstream seems to care about is how to monetize their project without even getting the basics right.

PS: fun fact, reinstalling Antstream on EGS to see how it changed erased all my favorites and games history. Yay!

PPS: this is not a dig against Xyphoes Nighmare, which I'm looking forward to, this is a dig against Antstream and the half truths being spread about the service on this thread.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Xyphoe on 14:50, 16 January 22
If you're referring to me being "disingenuous" I actually take quite offence to that.

That's also a very one sided view of your Antstream experience that isn't necessarily the same for everyone else.
Also saying it hasn't improved in terms of bug fixes, controller issues and server lag is just wrong. It has done - because I've been streaming it every week for over a year now and have witnessed the (albeit slow) improvement. But improved it has. Is it perfect? No. Never said that.

The reply further above that is wrong about "everything else is a paid service".

If you're logging in for the very first time because you want to play this new game when released... it's not charging you a penny to do so. You can jump in and play for as long as you want.

I've never paid a dime to Antstream, and on my account I log in and can play as many games as I want. It only uses 'gems' for tournaments, challenges, and other special events. If you don't believe me go watch a VOD of one of my Twitch streams to see it in action and me navigating the interface eg - twitch.tv/videos/1261826429 (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1261826429) which was last Tuesday.
They never gave me any special account, hell - they hadn't even heard of me until around August/September last year prior to Bug's Quest being released.

I am however hearing now that some people have accounts where gems are required to play games. Some don't have to. I don't know then what's going on with some people's accounts and what Antstream are doing there.

However it is clear you get given a big bunch of 'gems' then at least when you sign up. And more can be easily earned. If you're not happy about it being 100% free then you have your emulators.

I get it, that some people have a real 'issue' with a retro gaming streaming service. And I've never said it's perfect.

I would have hoped though that we would have been a bit more supportive at finally getting some Amstrad on there. And no-one is holding a gun to your head to go sign up for Antstream.

And any issues are a mute point when you'll be getting a .cdt/.dsk file shortly after, again for free, with more content.  :doh:
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 14:52, 16 January 22
Not like any of it matters seeing as the disk image won't see the light it day outside of the YouTube circle jerk.  :laugh:


Wonder if CPC-power and CPCRulez will get sued by Antstream when they host it too?  :picard2:


All this because of opposing opinion. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: ComSoft6128 on 15:16, 16 January 22
IMHO this thread has turned negative, corrosive and divisive and should be abandoned.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Xyphoe on 15:17, 16 January 22
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 14:52, 16 January 22
Not like any of it matters seeing as the disk image won't see the light it day outside of the YouTube circle jerk.  :laugh:
Wonder if CPC-power and CPCRulez will get sued by Antstream when they host it too?  :picard2:
All this because of opposing opinion. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so tragic.

That's a bad take dude.
Especially when the guy that runs one of those sites is involved with the coding and project....  :picard:
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 15:23, 16 January 22
Quote from: Xyphoe on 15:17, 16 January 22
That's a bad take dude.
Especially when the guy that runs one of those sites is involved with the coding and project....  :picard:


It's not a bad take when the author of the game actually said it on his discord chat!
Yellowbelly — Yesterday at 16:42
dont worry Pete, when i give the dsk files out it will only be to this and bugs community, if cpcwiki get hold of it they will have the full force of Antstreams legal dept to fend off"


Or is it okay for you guys to express an opinion but not for the wiki forum?
Lot of childish behaviour going on man.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 15:32, 16 January 22
Quote from: Gryzor on 15:18, 16 January 22
Feel free to open a new thread for the merits of lack thereof of Anstream. You have completely taken this thread off the rails, going to do some housecleaning tomorrow... This thread is about the game.


Bit unfair T.
1) we can't really talk about the game yet as it hasn't been released
2) You we're just as vocal against Antstream on this thread 😊
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: GadgetUK164 on 15:35, 16 January 22
OMG - why all the negativity here??  My view on antstream - I don't like it (from what I know about it), I prefer real hardware.   But its a huge service that may just get some people back into the CPC scene as they discover new games there and it gets them thinking about the CPC they loved when they were a kid.   As Xyphoe said - it's coming to real hardware too - there really is no issue here!   Some of the comments just add fuel to fire imho.  For example "TLDR" when Xyphoe has taken a lot of time to articulate his point of view  (granted, the comment following in that reply was that the person would read later).  It just comes across as rude and adds more fuel to the fire!   I personally would have expected the reply "Oh sorry - yeah, antstream is crap - I dislike it and the adds, I didn't realise it was coming out on tape and disk", "I can see the benefit of pushing it out to a large user based system like antstream, thank god we dont need to use that in the end"...

All of you are passionate about the CPC - fight with Commodore or Sinclair owners, not each other lol.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Xyphoe on 15:37, 16 January 22
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 15:23, 16 January 22

It's not a bad take when the author of the game actually said it on his discord chat!
Yellowbelly — Yesterday at 16:42
dont worry Pete, when i give the dsk files out it will only be to this and bugs community, if cpcwiki get hold of it they will have the full force of Antstreams legal dept to fend off"

You know YellowBelly well enough by now and his sense of humour / personality to know he is joking!
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Gryzor on 15:38, 16 January 22
Wouldn't say "just as vocal", but it was my mistake indeed. I wasn't imagining it would take such a turn when I only spoke about the game initially... Was foolishly drawn into it, I'll admit that much. But seeing as someone deliberately distorted my views to make it about Antstream, it'd be best to clean things up a bit. And then I can be more vocal.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 15:40, 16 January 22
Quote from: Xyphoe on 15:37, 16 January 22
You know YellowBelly well enough by now and his sense of humour / personality to know he is joking!


I actually don't. Given the nature of the conversation it didn't come off as a joke at all.
Nice backtrack though.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: ldaneels on 17:20, 16 January 22
Xyphoe,
My diatribe was not targeted at anything but Antstream. I set upon clarifying some facts. If you have a different experience, good for you, I don't & I 've been there since 2018 (actually I followed the project before release & even playtested it before general availability). And I suspect many more people are experiencing what I experience (pay gems to play among other things).

The crux of it all is that Antstream is F2P and has useability / performance issues, not whether I like streaming or not (I happen to like streaming in general, just not this service). Antstream improves, but not in the ways that matter and that's the issue. Adding CPC games is great, but the service remains unwieldy at best. Fix performance & useability first, then work on content. After 3 years, you'd assume they'd got that part right, but there has been no significant improvement.

Just imagine this: after not using the system for a while, I got offered a free year-long membership in 2020 (no gems required to play games, no subscription fee), but the service was still not improved so I just didn't use it. Even free I did not want to use it because it was not good enough.

If someone wants to argue about Antstream or simply discuss it, feel free to PM me. I just want to set facts straight. So, with this I'm done with the Antstream "debate" & would rather focus on the game, which I'm all for.
Loic
Quote from: Xyphoe on 14:50, 16 January 22If you're referring to me being "disingenuous" I actually take quite offence to that.

That's also a very one sided view of your Antstream experience that isn't necessarily the same for everyone else.
Also saying it hasn't improved in terms of bug fixes, controller issues and server lag is just wrong. It has done - because I've been streaming it every week for over a year now and have witnessed the (albeit slow) improvement. But improved it has. Is it perfect? No. Never said that.

The reply further above that is wrong about "everything else is a paid service".

If you're logging in for the very first time because you want to play this new game when released... it's not charging you a penny to do so. You can jump in and play for as long as you want.

I've never paid a dime to Antstream, and on my account I log in and can play as many games as I want. It only uses 'gems' for tournaments, challenges, and other special events. If you don't believe me go watch a VOD of one of my Twitch streams to see it in action and me navigating the interface eg - twitch.tv/videos/1261826429 (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1261826429) which was last Tuesday.
They never gave me any special account, hell - they hadn't even heard of me until around August/September last year prior to Bug's Quest being released.

I am however hearing now that some people have accounts where gems are required to play games. Some don't have to. I don't know then what's going on with some people's accounts and what Antstream are doing there.

However it is clear you get given a big bunch of 'gems' then at least when you sign up. And more can be easily earned. If you're not happy about it being 100% free then you have your emulators.

I get it, that some people have a real 'issue' with a retro gaming streaming service. And I've never said it's perfect.

I would have hoped though that we would have been a bit more supportive at finally getting some Amstrad on there. And no-one is holding a gun to your head to go sign up for Antstream.

And any issues are a mute point when you'll be getting a .cdt/.dsk file shortly after, again for free, with more content.  :doh:
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: redbox on 20:13, 16 January 22
Anstream suck major balls.  Data miners who steal your data and sell it to Russians.  Probably.  They made £2.6 million last year (https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/08451828/filing-history/MzMyNTM2NjYyMmFkaXF6a2N4/document?format=pdf&download=0).  So someone is making serious coin, even if it's not you.

The game looks ok.  Kudos to anyone making something for the CPC.  I prefer free as in speech (would like to see the source code) rather than free as in beer, but will take the latter.  But Antstream exclusive?  Nah mate. 

Also, threatening people with copyright enforcement is just laughable, especially when your first game (http://www.indieretronews.com/2021/08/bugs-quest-for-tapes-rejoice-for-new.html) infringed about 20 gazillion trademarks.  Again, probably.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: yellowbelly on 02:38, 17 January 22
im surprised you took that out of context shaun, as the exact sentance before it was written was "They are just being racist because im welsh lol" but then that wouldnt suit your need to fan the flames. but seriously i am done with this community after only a couple of interactions with it.
oh no worries @reidrac thanks for clearing up your comment.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Gryzor on 08:59, 17 January 22
Ah didn't notice that, having studied in Cardiff I have a special place for Wales in my heart.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 10:20, 17 January 22
Quote from: yellowbelly on 02:38, 17 January 22
im surprised you took that out of context shaun, as the exact sentance before it was written was "They are just being racist because im welsh lol" but then that wouldnt suit your need to fan the flames. but seriously i am done with this community after only a couple of interactions with it.
oh no worries @reidrac (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1504) thanks for clearing up your comment.


The hilarity (not to mention irony) of that statement when you were the one who took the criticism personally. One thing (the masked sprites) was pointed out and you went straight on the defence, Phil.
All other criticism on this thread was about the platform you launched it on, not your game.

As for your prior comment/joke about being racist. Honestly... didn't see it.
Not me that's fanning the flames here. But whatever suits your narrative, sir. Good day.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Carnivius on 13:57, 17 January 22
I dunno.  I've read the whole thread and I thought this comment was hugely disrespectful to the game and those working on it. Saying because it's an Antstream exclusive, the game can go in the f-ing bin?  Harsh.  I'd feel quite insulted by that if I was one of the people putting hours into developing a game just to have it so rudely and aggressively dismissed like that.

Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 12:48, 11 January 22My sentiments exactly. Anything with those two words in it can get in the fucking bin as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 16:14, 17 January 22
Quote from: Carnivius on 13:57, 17 January 22
I dunno.  I've read the whole thread and I thought this comment was hugely disrespectful to the game and those working on it. Saying because it's an Antstream exclusive, the game can go in the f-ing bin?  Harsh.  I'd feel quite insulted by that if I was one of the people putting hours into developing a game just to have it so rudely and aggressively dismissed like that.

That's your opinion, and you're quite entitled to it.  :)

Hardly disrespectful though. It's not an Amstrad game. It's an Antstream game converted to Amstrad!
I'm not a fan of paywall emulators, making games exclusively for them and passing it off as an Amstrad game didn't sit well with me.

But I guess that's the price I pay for speaking my mind. Some will appreciate it, others won't. That's why it's called a discussion forum.
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Gryzor on 16:17, 17 January 22
First of all apologies for not replying in any length during the weekend; I chose to spend it with the family and not open the laptop at any point...


To begin with, let me address something that did strike me as quite strange: there is no representative of the CPCWiki, and there's no such thing as a "CPCWiki opinion". Everyone here has their own opinion, and these differ more often than not.


So, without further ado, I present you with...



THE OFFICIAL POSITION
of, erm, myself



Setting some things straight, because Xyphoe managed to straight out distort some of the stuff I said.I'll try to sum up what I've been saying, to perhaps make it a little clearer:
Now, since this thread was derailed and was forced to split it, here's my two cents about Antstream:


I was a backer of the initial KS campaign; I have the "Founder" badge on my profile. I had also bought a second account as a gift to a friend because it seemed quite interesting, back then.


Once the service launched, I had a hard time being drawn to it. Yes, the slowdowns and graphics deterioration were to be expected. The interface, though, was a mess. And it was not about it being half-baked, with features still missing or improperly implemented, no: it was a very badly drawn interface, plain as that. I don't know how they thought it would be enough just spewing title after title at you with no proper categorisation in place and tools to easily find your favourite games. And the order of games/systems changing every time you lauhched the app.


Also, Amstrad was absent. I rose the issue with them and their reply was something along the lines of "ehhhh yeah, whatever". That there pretty much ended it for me.


Fast forward a couple of years (or more?), the same problems are still there. Sure, maybe speed has become better (honest question: why would one stream from it on YT instead of playing the games locally?), but the interface is still pretty poor. I tried locating a couple of fav games, not available. Played a couple of random ones - speed looked ok, response too (except, strangely(?) at the beginning of play, over my crystal-clear 100Mbps line). Amstrad? Haha. And sadly, yeah, I wouldn't count on this particular game to be the catalyst. But hopefully I'll be proven wrong.


The model? Certainly not free. Even without the gems part (ew), ad-based systems are NOT free. You'd think that by now, some twenty-five years after the Internet took off, people would have come along the old adage about you being the product blahblah. Not that I'd expect it to be free, really, but for some reason my opinion about Antstream was misconstrued as having a problem with paying and that somehow it being "free" would make it all better.


Now the fact for me is that I just don't see the point in it. Over the years I've set up a number of emulation stations at my home, outside the PC. All of them were so easy to play, and each filled to the brim with games. These days I'm enjoying my MiSTer system - been itching to try the AO486 core and I'd be doing that right now if I wasn't writing this post. Sure, others may not have the luxury, for any number of reasons, of an emulation station. For them a streaming service could be of use. Leaderboards etc? I really don't care about them. Others do. Each to their own. My MiSTer runs perfectly and is getting better each day, with really minimal setup. When my laptop is open, I really don't need streaming - just double-click on that image file on the NAS and play. When it's closed and I fancy an always-on device and can't get off my arse to turn my MiSTer on, my ShieldTV+controller is as good as any for emulation purposes. Or any of a handful of portable ARM-based emulation devices I have around.


So you see, I don't have a reason to want to use Antstream. And (to go back to the beginning), an exclusive release means I'll be missing out hence: disappointed Gryzor.


Have a great afternoon everyone!
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 16:28, 17 January 22
Quote from: Gryzor on 16:17, 17 January 22This was NEVER an Anstream argument. What the actual fuck, man, you may like Antstream, I do NOT. Am I not entitled in my opinion? You brought up  Dandanator as a counter-example (Jesus wept), but even there if someone says "I'm disappointed this is a Dandanator-only release", they are, of course, 100% entitled to say that. I don't, because I do have one so the more releases, the merrier, but so what.

Hahahah don't be so silly, T! Nobody is allowed an opinion on the internet unless it conveniently matches an agenda.  ;)
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Gryzor on 16:30, 17 January 22
Foolish me, should've realised that when I got kickbanned from that AMD vs Intel IRC channel back in '95.
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: EgoTrip on 16:40, 17 January 22
My position on Antstream is that any platform that can broaden the appeal of retro games and systems is a good thing. Nobody is forcing anyone to use it, and if someone creates a game for a retro (or any) system, it is up to them how they release it, whether its free or paid for or exclusive to a particular platform. Nobody is entitled to it.


People need to remember that there are a lot of casual gamers out there who don't want to deal with all the messing around with emulators, they just want to load up a website/app and play a game there and then. Just because someone does something in a new or different way to you does not make them wrong.
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Gryzor on 16:43, 17 January 22
Course not. Which is why I clearly stated thar what I wrote was about *me*.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Carnivius on 16:46, 17 January 22
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 16:14, 17 January 22
That's your opinion, and you're quite entitled to it.  :)

Hardly disrespectful though. It's not an Amstrad game. It's an Antstream game converted to Amstrad!
I'm not a fan of paywall emulators, making games exclusively for them and passing it off as an Amstrad game didn't sit well with me.

But I guess that's the price I pay for speaking my mind. Some will appreciate it, others won't. That's why it's called a discussion forum.
It was absolutely disrespectful.  And if it's 'converted to Amstrad' then how is it not an Amstrad game?  Are arcade ports not Amstrad games since they were 'converted to Amstrad'?   Have you got some weird gatekeeper rules going on there because you might need to explain them to us so we can all follow your CPC version of the ten commandments.
And then you try act victim with that 'price I pay for speaking my mind' like you one of those idiot celebs worried they're getting 'cancelled' because of stupid stuff they said.  You belittled and were rude about the work of another user on here with that initial comment so no wonder they got upset about it.
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Gryzor on 16:49, 17 January 22
You're missing the fine point behind his distinction by going too literal...
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Carnivius on 17:01, 17 January 22
Literal?  About the Amstrad game thing?  Explain that then please.  Or Are you trying to say I thought he actually meant the game could go into a real ('fucking') bin?  Because I sure as heck didn't.   
He could have made his point much less rudely and without insulting the project and decision of a fellow CPC enthusiast. That's what my point is.  And the fact he doesn't even understand how disrespectful his comment.  What if I said this site (that you've spent a lot of your free time working on over the years) could go in the 'fucking bin' because I disagreed with something about it rather than express myself in a more respectful and mature way about aspects of it I dislike? 
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Gryzor on 17:06, 17 January 22
Dude, can you calm down? I was referring to the post you quoted, and if you think that someone talking very calmly is treating you like than idiot then idk. I'll sincerely apologize and shut up and won't address you again because frankly, I don't know how else to go about it. Sorry.
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Carnivius on 17:10, 17 January 22
Quote from: Gryzor on 17:06, 17 January 22
Dude, can you calm down? I was referring to the post you quoted, and if you think that someone talking very calmly is treating you like than idiot then idk. I'll sincerely apologize and shut up and won't address you again because frankly, I don't know how else to go about it. Sorry.
I'm actually incredibly calm.  And if I wasn't, something saying 'calm down' doesn't actually have quite the effect people seem to think.   I been out for a nice walk with a friend's dog who is getting on a bit. Might be the last walk I ever get to take the lil dude on. So yeah I'm calm.  I'm just stunned you don't see how yellow and xyph had every right to get rather upset about this thread and certain comments.

All I see is a couple of nice CPC folk making a game and wanted to tell folk about it and then got hated on because the first release of it is on an emulator thing that some people don't like.  And because of that, all their work can go in the 'fucking bin' apparently. 


Where did the teaser trailer go? This thread's gotten rather confusing.
Title: Re: Re: "Xyphoe's Nightmare" Teaser Trailer!
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 18:12, 17 January 22
Quote from: Carnivius on 16:46, 17 January 22
It was absolutely disrespectful.  And if it's 'converted to Amstrad' then how is it not an Amstrad game?  Are arcade ports not Amstrad games since they were 'converted to Amstrad'?   Have you got some weird gatekeeper rules going on there because you might need to explain them to us so we can all follow your CPC version of the ten commandments.


Did you forget to take your meds this morning Carn?!
From what I understand, the game wasn't fully finished for a dsk release, controls etc. I'm open to correction on that but I really could not be bothered wading through that thread. Ergo if Antstream gets it first, its an Antstream game.

Also you might want to go through the thread before going off on a tirade. The author was actually more annoyed with a comment about not using masked sprites. I wasn't the first person to comment on the Antstream issue, again, re-read through that thread and you'll see that.

Finally, I didn't belittle the work of the game. I belittled the platform they used, and I stand by it. If you're going to release a product that's exclusively on paywalled emulation system like Antstream, then it can get in the bin! Again, that's a knock on the platform, not the game itself. I haven't played the game therefore I can't exactly comment on it, can I?


QuoteAnd then you try act victim with that 'price I pay for speaking my mind' like you one of those idiot celebs worried they're getting 'cancelled' because of stupid stuff they said.  You belittled and were rude about the work of another user on here with that initial comment so no wonder they got upset about it.


That's not playing the victim. I couldn't care less for cancel culture, nor could I care less if people agree or disagree with me, Carn. My opinions are my own and I air them on a discussion forum (last I checked, the Wiki forum was a discussion forum and not a dictatorship... or did I miss that memo as well?). I gave my opinion, just because you disagree with it didn't mean I didnt have a valid point.

Why don't you tell it like it is, you got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning and came on here for a nice rant. Hope you feel better for getting it off your chest. Better than than stewing in your own bile, I find. :)  
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 18:17, 17 January 22
Quote from: EgoTrip on 16:40, 17 January 22
My position on Antstream is that any platform that can broaden the appeal of retro games and systems is a good thing. Nobody is forcing anyone to use it, and if someone creates a game for a retro (or any) system, it is up to them how they release it, whether its free or paid for or exclusive to a particular platform. Nobody is entitled to it.

I've no problem with that, Ego, I really don't.
However I do have a problem with people whining out their ass just because they were butthurt reading an opposing opinion!

PS: I thought you left here a good while back after telling me to go die of cancer btw... nice to have you back. :)
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: CraigsBar on 18:52, 17 January 22

THE OFFICIAL POSITION
of, erm, myself **

I think Antstream is turning out to be, how can I put this.... Quite divisive!


It's no great secret that I really disagree with the Antstream business model. and the laggyness and graphical losses to me are a total deal breaker. Gimme real hardware - and failing that an FPGA solution.... or a well coded traditional emulator as a last resort. I have all 3 for various machines and all of them are usable. IMHO Antstream is not in it's current form.


** (c) our fearless leader 2022 ;)
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Gryzor on 18:59, 17 January 22
I wonder what their demographic is. Because despite all the talk, I doubt you'll find many 'casual', 'new' retro players. This would leave 'traditional' retroheads like us who want... What? Leaderboards?
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Gryzor on 19:00, 17 January 22
😂 at the edit
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: ldaneels on 19:47, 17 January 22
What bothers me about the service is they keep changing their business model, but not tackling the underlying issues (performance & interface).
That really sends the wrong message to potential users...
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Gryzor on 19:49, 17 January 22
Speaking about the business model; I'm no expert in reading financial statements but things don't quite look rosy to me...
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: lmimmfn on 01:13, 18 January 22
Who is the audience?
- Older folk who love retro but hate(absolutely detest) ad's
- Younger folk who have 0 interest in retro but dont mind ad's
Umm yeah, i dont understand anything about the business model.


Watching people stream & beat hiscores in a stream i think is a fair use case, but regular folk? Meh

Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Xyphoe on 05:06, 18 January 22
I think what this boils down to is *how* people express their opinions, which is what Carn is referring to. And a few others.

No-one is saying you can't have an opinion.

You have free speech. And you are free to express that however you want. It however doesn't mean you are free from upsetting and  annoying someone, or have them reply back to you pissed off.

Some people here are failing to grasp and understand how it would feel for someone who worked on the game or excited for the game coming into that original thread for the first time. Then acting surprised when someone like YellowBelly goes 'fuck it'. When I first arrived in the thread my heart fucking sank. It was completely dispiriting.

As the thread went on and got worse, even my viewpoint shifted over to anger and I had to stop myself writing out something angry, and being all daft like 'fuck this place, never coming here again and recommending it'.

We have seen many examples over the years of new Amstrad games being announced on here for someone to start whinging about something regarding it, for the author to pack his bags and leave the scene after. Granted, those examples are few and far between and I have actually defended the CPC Wiki Forum in other places discussing this topic saying 'Honestly this is not a toxic place, let's just call this a blip that will hopefully get cleared up'. And this is of course not unique to this forum - holy shit take a look at some of the Amiga, C64, Speccy and Atari forums. I'd actually say this has been, certainly over the last few years, a very chill and supportive place. But I have received several DMs in private from people who used to develop games and used to frequent the forum along the lines of 'Sorry - this is why I left'. Which makes this 'thing' all the more upsetting because I live for new Amstrad games.

This is my first ever real Amstrad game that I will have been part of (doing the music). Whilst I didn't have any involvement in the coding and design of it (YellowBelly basically wen't "surprise! I've done a new Amstrad game and your character is in it!")
It just crushed all my excitement about it. That sucks. :(

So it's not about having thick skin to these things. It's about having the motivation to carry on investing many hours more into current or new projects if it feels like people are not going to be behind it. I want to start doing more music for more new Amstrad games. All of us creating Amstrad content are likely to be in our 30s, 40s and 50s with full time jobs, with families, that do it for the love of the Amstrad in what little spare time we have. Before anyone says it - yes later on it was clarified that people will support the .dsk version of the game but the damage was done and then people are locked into arguing back and forth with each other.

And so just like you can't stop people having an opinion, you can't stop someone feeling or reacting how they do. If you upset someone, whether you believe you're in the right or wrong, you've still upset them. How you handle it after is what matters. That thread DID upset a lot of people, many of whom are not registered here but have read it or just simply don't want to get involved with drama. You can't just put your head in the sand about that. And there will be many reasons why someone is annoyed, it's not just as black and white that it's because someone said 'Antstream sucked'. There will be annoyance at people's entitlement, or 'gate keeping' about how and where you should play your games, etc for example which is a whole other topic and bees nest I don't wanna poke. My viewpoint is people should be free to enjoy their games on whatever format, medium, service, etc they choose and it's not cool to shit on them for that or try to ruin their fun. (I'm speaking more generally here, not at specific people here.)

I think this is all a bit overblown and melodramatic now anyway, I hope it's a little 'storm in a tea cup' that will get resolved quickly enough. I hope.

However my bemusement throughout this has always been - you get to play it free on Antstream first (unless you have an account that is limited to gems and you've already spunked all your gems on other games - in which case you're already invested in playing Antstream.) But don't like Antstream? That's fine. You also get to play it for free on emulation or real hardware shortly after. What's the problem and issue? Well personally my issue was the extreme negativity to Antstream that to be honest - genuinely took me by surprise - that makes me, YellowBelly, and others look like right mugs when we've been telling them 'The Amstrad community wants Amstrad games on your service and they'll be behind this!' They DO, but perhaps it seems not on this forum. That's why I said, "this is not a good look here". Then I start to worry if they do see this they'll also go 'fuck it', because it IS an Amstrad coded game that they have to spend hours of work integrating into their system. Someone has to get paid to do it. On reflection, Antstream probably don't/won't give a flying fuck about this thread. But that niggled me. I'm only human.

re Antstream - I'm not going to get further involved discussing that here apart from to reply to Gryzor's post...

@Gryzor (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1) - I'll reply back to you and only you here when I have time.
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Gryzor on 06:33, 18 January 22
That was a post making some nice points, actually. It's only 630 in the morning here so I'll reply later on.
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 10:08, 18 January 22
Aw to hell with this shit.. it's 8am for Gods sake!...  :laugh:

Let's get a couple of things perfectly clear here.

1) Not everyone likes Antstream for reasons perfectly outlined here by several people here. For some bizarre reason, they're still not good enough for those looking for reasons to be outraged. Fair enough, don't agree with them, but we're going around in circles to the point where it's looking like you're trying to sell horse shit to the fertiliser section of a garden centre.

2) Speaking of people easily outraged. Let's go back to Carn's quote shall we?
QuoteLiteral?  About the Amstrad game thing?  Explain that then please.  Or Are you trying to say I thought he actually meant the game could go into a real ('fucking') bin?  Because I sure as heck didn't.  

Carn, if you're going to call me out. Fair enough. I'm always open to justifying my opinion (which I have done on more than one occasion on this thread), but what I have quoted in bold is EXACTLY what happened. I never said that. I said anything to do with the words Antstream Exclusive can get in the fucking bin. The term 'get in the bin' is something you clearly need to look up. It's modern speak for something (or someone) that is beyond annoying. Now just to make this *perfectly* clear for you, I find Antstream beyond annoying. Have we caught up? I never said anything directly about the game as, and I will say this for the final time, I haven't played the game so I don't have an opinion on it. However my experience of the initial platform it's being released on has been far from great and i'm not the only one who shares that sentiment.

If you didn't properly read (or research) what I actually wrote and choose to reply to *your interpretation* of one of my posts, that's nobody elses fault but your own.

And here's where we cue for the easily outraged to cry again. Off you go.


For the record, as someone who spent years being a music photographer. I'm used to my work being crapped on on a daily (not a monthly or yearly) basis. It's what happens when you create something from nothing. Some will get it, others won't. That's how the world works, deal with it.               
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Gryzor on 11:53, 18 January 22

After having had some coffee, let's get to it.


Soooo yeah, that was another issue that arose in the thread: criticism against releases.


I don't think there's right and wrong here, and of course we're not the only community dealing with the issue. As a matter of fact, it seems that *every* indie creator is facing the same problem.


On one hand, you have people developing and giving us for free (or, if not for free, at a price that certainly will never recoup their time and toil) games or apps or hardware; especially for us, in a rather small and niche community, this is priceless. So when criticism arises, those devs are really and easily discouraged - "here I am giving you a horse and you're looking at its mouth?".


On the other hand, though, I never felt comfortable with the 'obligation' to heap praise upon each and every release and every developer. It just isn't possible that all releases are perfect or even good. Not offering some constructive criticism is just hypocrisy.


And for every DM you have received from people leaving the community believe me, I have received twice as many from people wondering "what on earth?" or "I tried apologising to him in private but who the heck does he thing he is" and stuff like that.


The thing is, developers more often than not take such criticism as a total dismissal of their work, and then drama arises; they react, and then other people react to an even higher degree, and the whole thing goes downhill. Artists/devs will satisfy their self-bias and insecurities (no dig against them, we all have them), while the other guys will just say 'oh fuck off with your shit' (which is the easiest thing to do when you're not the one that has been creating something out of love).


And of course there will be extremes - receivers who will enjoy tearing down the efforts of others (amazingly, the worst releases here have been received with utmost grace), and givers who think they are giving us the best thing since sliced bread and if we don't like it then fuck us, we're not worthy of Them.


It very much *is* about having a thicker skin, because it's pretty objective that creators are more sensitive about their work than the rest of the world is. And on the other hand, of course, it very much is about us realising that fact and being more gentle than we are with Cyberpunk 2077.


On a personal note, I've been criticised for a lot of CPCWiki failings, and sometimes I too, have thought "oh the fuck with it, got a life to attend to", but I never air these feelings; and those people criticising me, who are the very same people who create stuff or defend creators the next day, never stop to think about it. So do take note of that.


It's an unfortunate state of things, and I've seen it happening all over the place, and to be honest I'm not sure what the solution may be - or even if there is one. The fact that this is not something new (there *were* unappreciated creators before the CPC came along :D ) tells me there probably isn't one.


So I can only offer some advice - if people share something with the rest of us, be kind. I mean we mostly are kind, but try to be kinder. Be constructive and detailed. Be appreciative. Or maybe don't speak up, that's probably easier. If you create something and you receive criticism, try to be sensible about it; being a creator is always about exposing yourself to the world, and it's inevitable. If someone is being an asshole, ignore him - others are bound to appreciate your offering. But don't assume everyone is an asshole for criticising you.


In this case here, I'm baffled - there was NO criticism against the game, what can I say! I just tried to find it on Antstream (downloaded it to my Windows laptop; it just ignored the custom installation path I told it to use and defaulted to my smallish, C: SSD drive, so I wonder if anyone's tested the installer bit!). I didn't, so I assume it's not on there yet, but I digress. Nobody criticised a game we haven't seem, and thought it's been stressed a dozen times already I'll repeat it, the criticism levelled was against the platform of choice.


Gatekeeping? I'd argue that a closed platform of any sort is much more of a gatekeeping model than anything else. Or saying "I'll only give it to X and Y and those other guys over there can screw themselves", incidentally. Had it been clear from the beginning that the game would be released in the wild as well, this discussion would've gone much better, I think. If it was stated that "hey, I've been making this game, but because I have been preparing it to take advantage of Antstream features it'll take a while longer for it to be widely released" then reaction would probably be much calmer. Can't talk for others, but my comment would have been "ah this looks lovely, I don't use Antstream but looking forward to the dsk release!" or something like that. Same with the titles who are released first on physical and then given away on images.


Now, I do get your comment about this thread looking negative for Antstream and the consequences and all that, but why the surprise? I don't recall seeing any rave reviews of it here (or anywhere else to be honest, but it's not like I've been looking). And I do see the hope and effort put into the project that it could somehow turn things around. But from a consumer point of view, one swallow does not a summer make (or, as we say here -it's funny how some proverbs are similar across countries- one cuckoo doesn't bring spring). Antstream has been negative against the CPC from the beginning, and if this is a product development effort (puts marketing hat on) it's surprisingly half-baked. Maybe the help given has been great indeed, maybe they're going to give it a lavish promotion, maybe, maybe, maybe... But hey, you know what? You have 1200 titles in your catalogue (is it 1200 unique titles or do platform releases count as separate titles?) and you have found space for... ONE Amstrad release up to now, notwithstanding the fact that the CPC version of many of the titles you already have is the best. So don't pretend you're seriously considering the CPC scene until you do something serious about it - bring in a dozen CPC hits, or two dozen, or fifty. Do a promotion where new users can play the CPC versions for free for one month. Celebrate the XXth anniversary of the CPC and showcase its best titles. Do an April Fool's and serve the CPC version when a user tries to play the c64 version (*chuckles*). Do some "vs Amstrad" leaderboard competitions. Use a GT/CTM monitor frame for display. Offer a green mode. Address the issue that you purposefully ignored the platform from the very beginning. That's basic stuff. I should know, I've won several marketing awards.


The only reason I mention the awards here (not even listing them al, on my LI profile) is that like Shaun mentioned, I often get trashed at work for my ideas or my implementations; such is the nature of it. For every 100 ideas I implement, probably 70 of them follow safe, well-known paths, 20 are original failures and ten are original successes (if lucky) of varying degrees. And yet I still get criticised for those 10 brightest, best and profitable ideas of mine. There's no escaping it. So I just think "look at those awards! You're not stupid (...), let's see if there's something in this criticism I can use and let's move on!".


Those are my 2c. More coffee please.
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Xyphoe on 13:42, 18 January 22
Well said Gryzor especially -

QuoteI can only offer some advice - if people share something with the rest of us, be kind. I mean we mostly are kind, but try to be kinder. Be constructive and detailed. Be appreciative. Or maybe don't speak up, that's probably easier. If you create something and you receive criticism, try to be sensible about it; being a creator is always about exposing yourself to the world, and it's inevitable. If someone is being an asshole, ignore him - others are bound to appreciate your offering. But don't assume everyone is an asshole for criticising you.

100% that.
And on the weekly AMSTREAMS we do (note - nothing to do with ANTstream, I'm cursed that the names look and sound similar!), when a new Amstrad game is released it's always the main feature on the stream and we're there to support it and get it noticed to a larger crowd. And I discourage people from being overly mean and critical. Plenty of places elsewhere to do that if you must. Though crap commercially released games from back in the day can be ranted about as much as you want!

I said earlier I would reply to your previous post, but I've decided not to and move on despite a few things I disagree with because this doesn't need picking apart and stretching on any longer. I won't do here except to respond one thing you said - this thing here isn't about having thicker skin. It all started under confusion and misunderstandings, so myself or others *had* to jump in to clear things up then it went off the rails. None of us were responding to criticisms about the game (if we disregard reidrac's comment which he's later explained, but personally I never talked about that). And if you remember it wasn't any of us involved with the project that posted and started the original thread either. Someone else did, beating us to the punch. One of us was planning to come in here and post our own thread about the game and what was happening with it in detail, where I'm sure there wouldn't have been any misunderstanding. The 'teaser' video was just a daft thing cooked up quickly for a bit of fun - but I've already apologised early on that it wasn't clear enough at the end. But it was just intended as a quick teaser, before more details get released... but someone was inevitably going to share it somewhere and it's our bad for not being more specifically clear in the vid. We're just incredibly busy and stretched right now.

Then again, the whole Antstream thing would probably have been trashed anyway so it likely would have kicked off regardless! But probably not to this degree. I'm not on here enough due to work/time/family constraints to know whether Antstream is a liked thing or not.

So yea, none of us are sensitive about the game here - we're not daft, I've not even seen it yet myself! Let alone played it. But I'm sure YellowBelly won't mind me saying that this is definitely *not* the next Vespertino, Pinball Dreams or Oscar Z!! It's going to be a pretty simple little platformer but with some cool features. And a lot of hard work. That's just been done for fun and learning. A springboard to bigger and better projects. We're not deluded about that or anything lol  ;D
Honestly outside of our own communities I didn't think many people would give much of a shit anyway!

Lastly, I've been a long term supporter of the CPC Wiki and forum, when new people come in the Amstream or video comments on my channel asking where to start with the Amstrad, or where can I find information on xyz, etc I always point them towards here and tell them it's a great place and not toxic like other formats forums. There's even bot commands setup specific to CPC Wiki things. So Gryzor we've known each other for a long time now, I believe there is a mutual respect between us and I don't want that further damaged. You've done great work steering this site and forum for a long time now, which isn't easy I know. Maybe some moderation on that original topic would have helped though. That's just my feedback, and am leaving this with best wishes.

Oh and splitting the topics was probably the right thing to do, but just a suggestion - the old thread now looks a confusing mess especially to anyone new coming into it. It probably should be deleted and a new one started with fresh / full details. And this thread we're talking in now should probably get moved to the "Other Retro" section. But it's your call and forum of course. I just want done with all this now whilst trying to convince someone else heavily involved with lots of other new projects not to quit and leave the scene.  :picard:

Peace. <3
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 14:08, 18 January 22
Quote from: Xyphoe on 13:42, 18 January 22So yea, none of us are sensitive about the game here

I'm sorry but this is the one and only part of that post I disagree with.
If that was the case, the last three pages of backing and fourthing wouldn't have happened in the first place. That happened because most people from the Xy/YB camp completely overlooked the fact that our gripe was with the platform and not the game itself and just went on a tirade about the Wiki bashing the game.

A handful of people here griped and gave some opinions about Antstream
Your crew came in and overreacted.

Apart from that, well put.
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: EgoTrip on 15:33, 18 January 22
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 18:17, 17 January 22
I've no problem with that, Ego, I really don't.
However I do have a problem with people whining out their ass just because they were butthurt reading an opposing opinion!

PS: I thought you left here a good while back after telling me to go die of cancer btw... nice to have you back. :)


Yes, that wasn't very nice of me, and I went too far. Obviously I didn't literally mean it, I am sorry for saying that to you.
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 15:42, 18 January 22
Quote from: EgoTrip on 15:33, 18 January 22

Yes, that wasn't very nice of me, and I went too far. Obviously I didn't literally mean it, I am sorry for saying that to you.


Takes a hell of a lot to admit that. Apology accepted.
I too am sorry for overdoing it after that stream on this forum. The whole thing went way too far. It actually terrifies me to think all that went down almost three and a half years ago now!
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: andycadley on 16:23, 18 January 22
The Antstream thing: I'll admit I haven't really kept up with it since the original announcement because it wasn't a "pay for" service that I really felt I wanted to pay for (much as I love retro games I don't get to play as much as I used to and Dr Mario on Switch Online is about all I ever have time for). I'm not sure I see bringing all the "benefits" of Freemium games to retro platforms is a step in the right direction, but everyone has their own ideas on these things and mine aren't necessarily more valuable than others.


There is a certain ring of truth to the "sometimes developers need to get a thicker skin" though. Everyone wants to encourage people to develop things if they enjoy it and get as much out of the community as they can, but it's actually counter productive to only heap praise on every release. Sometimes you have to take a deep breath, swallow the criticisms for what they are, and not get into a massive flounce over it all. I've had some of my own stuff taken out of context and criticised heavily (on no less than Xyphoe's channel at least once!) and could have thrown the toys out of the pram, insisted I'd never watch again and dumped the community. But life's too short, I just accepted it and moved on, disheartening as these things may sometimes be.


TLDR: Be nice, get along. Life is too short.
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Gryzor on 16:28, 18 January 22
Today I learned a new word, 'flounce'. I count that as a win.

Question, then: how many here are on Antstream? Why? If not, again why?
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 16:50, 18 January 22
Quote from: andycadley on 16:23, 18 January 22
There is a certain ring of truth to the "sometimes developers need to get a thicker skin" though. Everyone wants to encourage people to develop things if they enjoy it and get as much out of the community as they can, but it's actually counter productive to only heap praise on every release. Sometimes you have to take a deep breath, swallow the criticisms for what they are, and not get into a massive flounce over it all. I've had some of my own stuff taken out of context and criticised heavily (on no less than Xyphoe's channel at least once!) and could have thrown the toys out of the pram, insisted I'd never watch again and dumped the community. But life's too short, I just accepted it and moved on, disheartening as these things may sometimes be.


The laughable part about all of this though is nobody heavily criticised the actual game, bar a comment on the sprites! They couldn't, nobody played it. We got a teaser video and watched it.
It was those involved in the game who came in and kicked up a stink about dumping all over the game when in actual fact, we were criticising the platform.

It spiralled way out of hand even before I properly got involved in the conversation.  :laugh:

Edit: That's actually worrying for when they *do* get criticism when people play it then, isn't it?
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: dthrone on 17:10, 18 January 22
Quote from: Gryzor on 16:28, 18 January 22
Today I learned a new word, 'flounce'. I count that as a win.

Question, then: how many here are on Antstream? Why? If not, again why?




I'd never even heard of it!  But I went on the website to check it out as a result of this topic so it just shows that any publicity is good publicity  :D
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: CraigsBar on 19:00, 18 January 22
Quote from: dthrone on 17:10, 18 January 22I'd never even heard of it!

**Out of context alert**

flounce

verb (used without object), flounced, flounc·ing.
to go with impatient or impetuous, exaggerated movements:
The star flounced out of the studio in a rage.
to throw the body about spasmodically; flounder.
noun
an act or instance of flouncing; a flouncing movement.
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: EgoTrip on 19:02, 18 January 22
Quote from: Gryzor on 16:28, 18 January 22
Today I learned a new word, 'flounce'. I count that as a win.

Question, then: how many here are on Antstream? Why? If not, again why?


I have games on, and coming to Antstream, both CPC and Spectrum. Simply because it's another way to get games out there, and having the CPC represented is a good thing is it not?


I will always make my games freely available on here, I will never go down the exclusive platform route. But I don't have any problem with what people choose to do with their own productions, it is their work after all.
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Gryzor on 19:30, 18 January 22
Ah yes, if you're a game developer, that's a different story. Which games do you have? Because searching for "Amstrad" only have two results...
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Xyphoe on 22:19, 18 January 22
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 16:50, 18 January 22

The laughable part about all of this though is nobody heavily criticised the actual game, bar a comment on the sprites! They couldn't, nobody played it. We got a teaser video and watched it.
It was those involved in the game who came in and kicked up a stink about dumping all over the game when in actual fact, we were criticising the platform.

It spiralled way out of hand even before I properly got involved in the conversation.  :laugh:

Edit: That's actually worrying for when they *do* get criticism when people play it then, isn't it?
No that is completely wrong.

At no point did I feel the actual game was being criticised.
At no point did I have to defend the actual game.

Only YellowBelly picked up on reidrac's minor comment briefly, and that was cleared up pretty quickly.

Otherwise the whole discussion there was about Antstream and the platform.
What was being argued about and defended was how we were releasing the game and Antstream.

Please do not try and distort this, and please - respectfully - stop trying to stir up drama and arguments again. It's over and done with now.

And if people don't like it when it's released that's fine. It's a simple game, we're not deluded. We're beginners at making games and we're not stupid. Whether you like a game or not is all subjective.
Referring back to Gryzor's comment about his job - similarly I've had many years of putting out music and songs, gigs and live shows, DJing clubnights, etc and shrugged off *lots* of horrible shit thrown my way. The YouTube channel and Twitch has over a thousand videos and live streams, and I get negative and shitty comments nearly on a daily basis. Don't be so daft and insulting, I wouldn't have done and continue to do all this if I couldn't take it.
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 22:27, 18 January 22
I'm not trying to distort anything. I didn't say anything that didn't happen.


The game wasn't criticised, one piece of feedback about a sprite. FACT!
It was mostly against Antstream - FACT!
Yellowbelly overreacted - FACT!
You tried to push Antstream again and again ignoring concerns already aired - FACT!


If you need a reminder of that Al, feel free to go back through the thread. But just because you can't admit that you guys overreacted doesn't mean that wasn't the case. It was.


And to insinuate I'm the one stirring up the drama? That's funny considering the topic didn't get heated until your crew came in and threw your collective oar in.


With all due respect of course. Milk it because it's the last shred of respect I had for you.
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Gryzor on 23:01, 18 January 22
Ok ok, let's all kiss and make nice now, shall we? I could add some comments myself, but I really feel it's been exhausted by now. All points are clear for everyone to see, no point in dragging on...
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 23:04, 18 January 22
Fine by me, T. I've said my piece. I'm done on this thread.  :)
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Gryzor on 23:07, 18 January 22
Cheers mate, have a good one🙂
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: ldaneels on 06:27, 19 January 22
Quote from: Gryzor on 16:28, 18 January 22
Today I learned a new word, 'flounce'. I count that as a win.

Question, then: how many here are on Antstream? Why? If not, again why?

Well, to answer your question, I am on antstream because I really like the idea & I have a soft spot for 80s/90s computer games (mostly ZX & Amiga - CPC catalogue would be a huge boon, of course) and arcade shmups.


I also am weirdly attracted to frontends (Gamebase, Hyperspin, Batocera, Retropie,... I simply can't help spending inordinate amount of time on frontends) and that's where the issues arise with Antstream. I simply don't see the value of Antstream compared to free alternatives. Maybe if I was interested in achievements (Retroachievements does it better but is focused on consoles) and tournaments (I play to enjoy games, not compete) I could see some semblance of value.


Antstream looks attractive & I like the idea of a curated catalogue, but it is absolutely subpar. I won't belabor the points I & Gryzor made about useability & performance, but if they expect me to subscribe, I want something useable & offering a better solution than what is freely available (or at least on the same level). My main gripe (I could overlook performance issues) is the discoverability of games and as the catalogue keeps growing, this keeps getting worse.

The end result is that I am on Antstream but I almost never use it. I keep hoping (unreasonably) that things will get better but in the 3+ years since its inception, all I found is disappointment.

PS: I discovered that installing Antstream on EGS creates a new account, so going back to the standalone Antstream launcher, I got all my games history & favourites back. Wew! Fun fact: you can't buy gems (that I could find) on the Antstream launcher, it is only an EGS exclusive! But yeah, the EGS version is more than likely a sign of things to come...
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Gryzor on 06:32, 19 January 22
Quote from: ldaneels on 06:27, 19 January 22My main gripe (I could overlook performance issues) is the discoverability of games and as the catalogue keeps growing, this keeps getting worse.
So it was not just my idea - I thought I was missing something obvious...
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: ldaneels on 06:36, 19 January 22
Seriously, this is surreal! How can they not see that simple fact. Nintendo catches a lot of flack (rightfully) for their eShop, but I find Antstream a lot less useable than this, which is really scary... And I contacted them multiple times about it (and a few other things), but I only got generic canned answers which gives me very little hope they're interested in improving that aspect.
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Gryzor on 06:39, 19 January 22
As I said, I did offer them feedback while in beta because it looked really badly designed. They shrugged it off.

Also, these days when filter masks are all the rage, I find it weird they insist on chunky, hi tres pixels...
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: ldaneels on 06:45, 19 January 22
I actually really like the look :) I have to admit this is what actually drew me in. And then I started using Antstream...

EDIT: I realise you meant the look of games themselves, which I also like (I know, I'm a heathen). I meant the look of the interface drew me in. That being said, they could indeed easily provide filters for running the games.
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: MaV on 10:56, 19 January 22
Quote from: Shaun M. Neary on 23:04, 18 January 22Fine by me, T. I've said my piece. I'm done on this thread.  :)
STOP! Stop it, Shauny! Now sit down, or you won't get your sausage! There's a good boy! Look, uncle Xyphoe really is one of the good guys. No, Shauny, you can't sniff his butt! He's not into that ... I think.


Come on, I'll give you a worthy target. See that postman over there? Lately he's been staring at my missus a bit too long for my tastes. Apparently he's into MILFs, and we can't have that now, can we? You know what to do. *pat* *pat* Now go, and do your best!


(Someone's probably gonna kill me for that!)
;)

Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 12:29, 19 January 22
Quote from: MaV on 10:56, 19 January 22
STOP! Stop it, Shauny! Now sit down, or you won't get your sausage! There's a good boy! Look, uncle Xyphoe really is one of the good guys. No, Shauny, you can't sniff his butt! He's not into that ... I think.


Come on, I'll give you a worthy target. See that postman over there? Lately he's been staring at my missus a bit too long for my tastes. Apparently he's into MILFs, and we can't have that now, can we? You know what to do. *pat* *pat* Now go, and do your best!


(Someone's probably gonna kill me for that!)
;)


I will murder you in your sleep.  ;) :laugh:
We'll agree to disagree about Xyphoe though
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Shaun M. Neary on 12:35, 19 January 22
Quote from: ldaneels on 06:36, 19 January 22
Seriously, this is surreal! How can they not see that simple fact. Nintendo catches a lot of flack (rightfully) for their eShop, but I find Antstream a lot less useable than this, which is really scary... And I contacted them multiple times about it (and a few other things), but I only got generic canned answers which gives me very little hope they're interested in improving that aspect.


I have actually heard multiple horror stories like this and worse, which is why my stance on Antstream is what it is. Years later and it still performs like an unfinished beta.
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Skunkfish on 16:54, 19 January 22
I decided to give Antstream a go this week, as it feels like I've read about nothing else lately!

It seems like a good concept, but I do question the need to be streaming 8-bit games over the internet rather than playing them locally - sort of like using a sledgehammer to kill a fly.

Also, other than playing Bug's Quest for Tapes (which I rather enjoyed), I had a quick go on Slam Tilt which I have on my Amiga 1200. That quickly killed it for me, as it made the input lag very apparent. Streaming is never going to be the best way to play a fast-reaction game like pinball, but also it didn't hold up to other streaming platforms I've tried in that regard....
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: JimmyChan2022 on 16:12, 04 February 22
 8) Jimmy is too cool to understand why people are complaining
If Jimmy makes a homebrew game, Jimmy will sell it for £29 in a cassette case and make money for Jimmy
Title: Re: Antstream - cool or not? And some nice flame wars.
Post by: Gryzor on 16:13, 04 February 22
If it's any good, I'll buy it :D
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