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GOTY 2013 for spectrum, soon on CPC?

Started by Joseman, 00:19, 13 March 14

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Joseman

Hi

Surfin' the web i found this:

"Los amores de Brunilda" Spanish game (in english too):


Los Amores de Brunilda (ZX Spectrum) - HD 720p

Here is the english version:

http://www.retroworks.es/php/download.php?file=OABEA_ENG.zip

I read a lof of comments like "GOTY for spectrum" "best than games for newer consoles", "no game equal in the last years".

It's rumoured that will be ported for other systems... I think that it will be very very very interesting to see it released on Amstrad...

What do you think?


Sykobee (Briggsy)

This games looks really great - it is using the Spectrum's attribute mechanism really effectively - e.g., water/fire animation by attribute swapping rather than costly re-rendering, and designing the game around the limitations to end up with a colourful in-game experience.


A CPC version should be able to use the CRTC's character scrolling effectively, but the choice is detailed, but 4 colour graphics, or chunky 16 colours graphics, and re-rendering for animation (actually, in MODE 0 dedicating 4 colours for fire/water and palette swapping will work).

SyX

Quote from: Joseman on 00:19, 13 March 14
I read a lof of comments like "GOTY for spectrum" "best than games for newer consoles", "no game equal in the last years".
Sure, Brunilda is a great game, but you can read exactly the same of every 8 bit game game published those days (and in Spain even more :P), nobody is able to say that he doesn´t like a new game or he will be crucifixed for the fans/friends of the developers.

You could release classics likes "Score 3020" and get exactly the same general acclaim than Brunilda  :D

If even the most unplayable piece of shit, gets an 8 in Retro Gamer... although well, magazines always lied in their scores  ;D

And of course, you get a lot of people telling how original is a "lights out" game (how an idea that it was old in 1984 comes to be original in 2014?!?!?! Come on!!! xDDD ) or how smooth is a character scroll (jajejijoju jajejijoju) or how big are those sprites of 16x16 pixels (this people saw another game after Oh Mummy!?!?!?) or how we are in the real golden age of 8 bits (certainly these people only saw Oh Mummy! xDDDD) or how long is this game with 64 screens that i can beat in less 10 minutes (better don´t speak about the hours enjoying a Chrono Trigger or a Final Fantasy xDDD) or my favourite:

"There is no game equal in years" ... sureeeeee, guuuuuuuuuuy, and excuse me, are you an speccy nerd no? Let me be sure, how many games of CPC, Atari 800, C64, MSX, Amiga, ... anything not speccy have you played in the last years? Yes! Of course, Zero is the good answer. This is the best game in years, but you are not played any Krazilec msx game as Goonies; or Joe Gunn or Soulless or Not Even Human in C64; or Yoomp! in Atari 800; or Space 1999 in Oric; ... But well, it's the same people that you can ask one year later about the GOTY 2013 and they will not remember a shit, because they only saw the screens in a forum, then they put a big comment in the forum about how the AMAZING the game is, and after that they downloaded the game and storaged in a folder called last_speecy_romz_for_try_one_day_in_the_future... I know more CPC people has played and finished Brunilda in a ZX emulator than zx people xDDDD 

And i love retro games insanely, but the old platforms are not the only one for retro/indie games, for me a PSX4 is so retro as an VCS, and a good retro game is independent of the platform where runs. Because that i need to see another retro game from the last year that gives me the same satisfaction that i get while i'm playing to Resogun (another defender clone)... or the satisfaction that i'm going to get while playing to Dead Nation Apocalypse (another commando clone that i loved the first part in ps3) or i have with Super Stardust HD (that i loved since my amiga years) or VVVVVV or Fez or Braid or Super Meat Boy or ...

Quote from: Joseman on 00:19, 13 March 14
It's rumoured that will be ported for other systems... I think that it will be very very very interesting to see it released on Amstrad...

What do you think?
I imagine that the first port will be MSX cartridge, but as always it's very important during Retro Madrid go to the Retroworks stand and asking about a future CPC version, in the same way that we asked about Teodoro or in the same way that we ask Relevo for IOTZM, because they though there was not interest in a CPC version.

MacDeath

#3
Just read the speccyport page on the Wiki, and don't do those mistakes at all !!!


Such game should :
=be in mode0 and all graphics "CPC redone".
=use 256x256 (128x256 in mode0) or 320x200 or 320x256 or 384x256/192x256 (Mode1/Mode0) sized screen in 128K RAM (=CPC/PLUS 6128) as a minimum, because seriously, vertical 192 pixel is for loosers (unless fullscreen horizontal 384 or 192 pixels, according to graphic mode used, but it seems not suitable for such game).
=not use useless multimode or raster tricks (but may use usefull ones if possible... as in sorcery or Antiriad)
=get the assembly code well corrected or redone for CPC.
=use typicall un-speccy features such as the colour orange or more than 2 colours per character.

=be better than the speccy version (if all previous things are done, it would be!).

;D


as it is a "character animated" game engine it may not be hard to get it right on CPC... just be generous on multiload with Floppies and 128K (=6128 specs) and all will be fine. We all know you can't decently port a "Speccy128" game on a CPC464... and according to AY sound, it is indeed a Speccy128/+2/+3/+2B/+3B game. ::)


Could even be smoother on CPC due to the "not needed" "full character engine in order to counter colour clashes on CPC"


and needless to say a 6128PLUS in 512K cartridge+Floppydisk version of the game would be the best real 8bit version ever easily. ;)


So now the real one only question : where are the source codes ?

mr_lou

For the record, RetroWorks' CPC version of their game Teodoro no sabe volar, was absolutely awesome!


All graphics redone for MODE 0, awesome music all the way, smooth framerate. It has all the elements I'm looking for in a retro game.
The same game on other platforms was very different in my opinion. The CPC version was clearly the best.


I donated 40 euro or so to RetroWorks after having enjoyed playing Teodoro on my CPC, because such efforts definitely deserves something. And I hope of course, that such donations makes RetroWork continue porting their games to the CPC in the future.


So if we're lucky, we'll see an equally awesome version of Brunhilda some day for the CPC. Fingers crossed.  :)

SyX

#5
Quote from: MacDeath on 03:19, 30 March 14
So now the real one only question : where are the source codes ?
MacDeath, do you know that you can download the game source code from the game page since the first day? No? :P

This is the direct link :P

And not only include the asm files, you can find the design documents, the manual, the maps, the language files, the music, the graphics  (the sprites and loading screens are in .scr or .sev, but you can use SevenuP tool -windows, linux and mac versions- to export to png, bmp, ... for you can retouch them in your favourite paint program), ...

In these moments (change of country, language and civil state... even i don´t have my CPCs here, but i hope being able to bring them this Easter  ;D ), i haven't time for working in a project like this and i don't know if there is another team working in this project (although usually when RetroWorks publish the sources is because in this moment they aren't interested in porting to other systems), but if a CPC team wants to work and need help with the translation of the spanish source code comments and the documentation, i'll be glad of helping.

And of course, always ask for permission to make the CPC version to the nice chaps of Retro Works :)

Quote from: mr_lou on 08:22, 30 March 14
For the record, RetroWorks' CPC version of their game Teodoro no sabe volar, was absolutely awesome!

All graphics redone for MODE 0, awesome music all the way, smooth framerate. It has all the elements I'm looking for in a retro game.
The same game on other platforms was very different in my opinion. The CPC version was clearly the best.

I donated 40 euro or so to RetroWorks after having enjoyed playing Teodoro on my CPC, because such efforts definitely deserves something. And I hope of course, that such donations makes RetroWork continue porting their games to the CPC in the future.
Very well done, Mr Lou. I'm going to pass your kind words to the authors, they will be glad to hear how you like Teodoro. Interesting trivia, Teodoro was the first CPC program of the programmer, he is an MSX coder mainly and he made the Teodoro msx version too.

mr_lou

Quote from: SyX on 15:41, 30 March 14
Interesting trivia, Teodoro was the first CPC program of the programmer, he is an MSX coder mainly and he made the Teodoro msx version too.


Well I sure hope he decides to do more CPC games.  :)
But it isn't the coding alone. It is also the graphics and music. They're all just awesome in my opinion, and it's rare to see all 3 parts equally great I think.
So tell him to team up with the musician and graphics artist and do more CPC games.  :D

SyX

Quote from: mr_lou on 17:02, 30 March 14
But it isn't the coding alone. It is also the graphics and music. They're all just awesome in my opinion, and it's rare to see all 3 parts equally great I think.
So tell him to team up with the musician and graphics artist and do more CPC games.  :D
Of course, it´s a great team work, because that i said the "authors", pardon for my engrish, jejeje.

ZilogZ80a

Hi I'm Jose Vila (ZilogZ80a) RetroWorks member and the developer of "Teodoro no sabe volar" for MSX & CPC, I am very glad that teodoro CPC liked it, It is my first full game for the Amstrad CPC, Besides being a founder member of New Frontier in 80s. I would like people to vote which is the best game of the year (GotY) 2013 included Teodoro, also you can choose and vote for GotY 2013 For CPC 464 & 6128. Sorry for my bad English.

mr_lou

Quote from: ZilogZ80a on 21:30, 08 April 14
Hi I'm Jose Vila (ZilogZ80a) RetroWorks member and the developer of "Teodoro no sabe volar" for MSX & CPC, I am very glad that teodoro CPC liked it, It is my first full game for the Amstrad CPC, Besides being a founder member of New Frontier in 80s. I would like people to vote which is the best game of the year (GotY) 2013 included Teodoro, also you can choose and vote for GotY 2013 For CPC 464 & 6128. Sorry for my bad English.


According to CPC-power.com, "Teodoro no sabe volar" is from 2012.
I do remember an updated version being released in 2013 though, which is the version I played.


Browsing through the games list from 2013 at cpc-power.com, there's no question about "Teodoro no sabe volar" being the Game of The Year 2013 for me. It had been a loooong time since a game caught my interest so much. It has so many elements that I like and prefer in a game. "Teodoro no sabe volar" is the only game (in newer time) that I ended up playing until I completed it.


I know there are forum members here at CPCwiki that focuses on the technical aspects of a game, such as the techniques used to achieve something.
I will never judge a game on anything else but the gameplay and the experience. And "Teodoro no sabe volar" was simply extremely entertaining all the way through.  :)
Awesome graphics, awesome music, awesome gameplay.


I heard a few people complain about "pixel perfect" movement. That is also something I hate in games. But I didn't find it bad in Teodoro. Possibly because of the smooth movement of the player character. (Dunno if the 2013 update had any changes compared to the 2012 version in that regard either).


It will always come down to personal preference of course. I tend to favor games in the relaxing genre. Like Spindizzy, Radzone and Obsidian. Games that lets you explore worlds without constantly needing to kill bad guys that spawn every 2 seconds.
And having a high framerate means a lot too. It is a great solution in Teodoro: Give the main player character a high framerate, while the baddies move more chunky. Works great.  :)


I hope RetroWorks will release more titles for the CPC.  :)  Especially if they'll be the same quality as Teodoro no sabe volar.  :)

MacDeath

#10
QuoteI know there are forum members here at CPCwiki that focuses on the technical aspects of a game, such as the techniques used to achieve something.
Actually French "scene" at french forums are often quite criptic about many spanish productions.

To be fair, we had a streak of spanish games, few years ago, based on the almost same C-programmed engine... those games were cute and nice but...

I believe the main issue concerning the french CPCscene, is that they don't see the point in cross dev and think that having games on multi-format or even 464 specs is a clear lay down on what possible quality can be done with a 100% 6128-coded production.

For me I think it is still good to have productions, graphics are often very cute and we have to take those for what they are : cute little games, which give a good run to MSX or Speccy most of time (or even C64) due to the multiformat releases..

But still I always find it shamefull to have Speccy sized screen (and MSX too actually)
I think it is not good to stick to 464 specs... can't wait for a good +512K extension to be released modernly for cheap.

With such extended RAM, mega games despite on tape, can be achieved... whatever the original machine (be it 64 or 128...)

128K minimum is a good way to get rid of those speccy traits too often seen on CPC.

A game like Theodoro, or invasion of zombi monster... would really be greater with 256x256 sized screen...
But yeah, more routines and stuff would need to be recoded, and level design would also need to be redone a bit.

For me the big advantage of CPC over MSX1 or speccy is being able to get rid of border... and have more dense graphical datas on the same surface.

Speccy : 256x192x2 (attriobutes 8x8pixels, 15 colours on screen, 2 per attribs)
MSX1 : 256x192x2 (attriobutes 8x1pixels, 15 colours on screen, 2 per attribs) + sprites : better for no attributes clashes... issues to scroll smoothly though.

CPC : 192x256x16 (Full screen mode0... 16 colours on 27, badass Epic display is awesome...)
This 192x256 doesnt need to be really all used of course, and with games like Theodoro with no scrollings and not that much sprites, it wouldn't be really slow actually...
Just that the humongous 24K RAM for Video (48 if double buffered ?) is humongous and can't be used without 128K RAM+fast loadings or "Cartrdige/ROM based " formats...


So pelease Spanish devs... produce just one or two nice 128K game with bigg screen and bouncy jumps so the French scene would shut mouth and love you.


imagine Teodoro with the sprites sized in "24x24" (mode1, 12x24 in mode0...) chars instead or "16x16"... and a "256x200" or 320x192 or whatever... playfield (+256x56 HUD or something like that).

Mode0 doesn't like being reduced to a speccy sized screen. It needs more surface to display its full potential.


Use those advices for teodoro 2 and all will be fine. ;)

TFM

Haha! I like the French scene  ;)
TFM of FutureSoft
Also visit the CPC and Plus users favorite OS: FutureOS - The Revolution on CPC6128 and 6128Plus

mr_lou

Quote from: MacDeath on 20:06, 12 April 14
A game like Theodoro, or invasion of zombi monster... would really be greater with 256x256 sized screen...

Mode0 doesn't like being reduced to a speccy sized screen. It needs more surface to display its full potential.


We all have different ideas about what it is that makes a game great.
To me, the alpha and omega is smooth movement.
I would much rather have a small screen with smooth movement, than a big screen with chunky movement.
Chunky movement can ruin any game for me.


I don't focus on the screen size at all. That's not to say that I wouldn't appreciate a bigger screen though - as long as it doesn't result in a less smooth movement of the player character.
Also... flickering is bad too.


A game like Dead on Time is just pure bliss to play, because of the awesome smooth movement (among many other awesome things in that game).
And the main character in Teodoro likewise.
Invasion of the Zombie Monsters moves too chunky for me to be enjoyable. Same goes for Uwol 2, Sir Ababol and the other games that used the same engine.


Big screen or small screen won't change the gameplay for me in any of those games.

MacDeath

#13
full "speccy character" chunky animation is a bit extreme, somewhat.

like I told, having it on bigger screen reduce the "chunky effect"

320x200 = 40x25

256x192 = 32x24

you move of 1 character horizontally :
320x200 : 1/40 of the screen.
256x200 : 1/32 of the screen.

so it is actually "smoother"... ;D

some "character" engine manage to trick you into smoothness.

example : R-Type.

Speccy/CPC : the background has smooth movement...
MSX : some sprites are hard and smooth.

when R-Type128 was released, some Amstradbashing dudes at some french forums told that the MSX version was smoother... just because the R9 is smooth animated, still the game's engine remains full-character based concerning fires and scrolling.

it is quite psychological I think.

R-Type128 is quite difficult because :
=still small screen, and character based sprites.
=bigger R9 sprite... ouch.

you have to make concessions when you design/code a game. especially on CPC.

QuoteDead on Time
is truely great, but there is no real background to be honest. this can help a bit...  ;D
I always found it a missed opportuny that no double controller option was provided... dual stick control would be awesome
like one joystick for the movement and another one for the fire orientation.

Many arcade multi-direction shooters had special rotating sticks :
=midnight resistance.
=Forgotten worlds.
=smash TV ?
=many many more I think...

I quite regret such mecanism was never somewhat implemented in 1player games on our beloved old machines... most of them could handle double controllers.

Well, quite shamefull that many CPC games actually need 2 buttons and don't allow to use the joystick second button anyway... :(

Quoteconcerning those spanish platform games...
a big complain comes from the way player's sprite would jump... not realistic or nice to fell.

I always hated the way the player sprite jumps in Switchblade...
on the other hand, Rick Dangerous is great and enjoyable because it is a real pleasure to simply jump with rick... it is bouncy and has the realistic acceleration (despite controlled jumps being unrealistic, lol)
Well, not that unrealistic with Rick Dangerous 2 as he now has a super hero cape so it is credible to have him control his jumps. :D

Mario was a great game because the jumps from "jumpman" are enjoyable.
Same with the Bombjack games on CPC.

But I guess coding in C makes it harder to implement some proper Sinusoidal/physical curve.

while Lala the magical prologue , being a magical witch she can somewhat glide/fly a bit, but sir Abadol ? oh wait, he has a cape... :D


mr_lou

Quote from: MacDeath on 10:34, 13 April 14[size=78%]some "character" engine manage to trick you into smoothness.[/size]

example : R-Type.


No engine can "trick" me. And I don't consider R-Type to be smooth.


It's not about background graphics. It's about sprite movement. I don't care that the background moves smooth, if the sprites don't.
Dead on Time not having a background means absolutely nothing.
As I said. Smooth movement = alpha and omega.
If Dead on Time had a background resulting in overall less smooth movement of sprites, I'd much rather do without the background.

Optimus

I do agree that there are games with static screen no scrolling and so, smooth sprites and is enough for the game. And if the game has good gameplay it's enjoyable.
Of course, having scrolling too is nice or interesting, and there are even games with 25fps scrolling (but sprites can maybe update at 50?) which is still looking good.

mahlemiut

Quote from: MacDeath on 10:34, 13 April 14
Many arcade multi-direction shooters had special rotating sticks :
=midnight resistance.
=Forgotten worlds.
=smash TV ?
=many many more I think...

I seem to remember Smash TV used dual joysticks, one to move, the other to fire.
- Barry Rodewald

Devlin

Is there any confirmation that this is coming to CPC? or is it just rumour and speculation?
Amstrad fan! | CPC464 & CPC6128 + USIfAC II + Revaldinho 512k(universal cpld ver) | Administrator of Amstrad Discord : https://discord.gg/ksWvApv

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