Author Topic: Where to put new (or old) DIY projects.  (Read 15489 times)

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Offline nocash

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Re: Where to put new (or old) DIY projects.
« Reply #25 on: 01:14, 25 January 10 »
> add spaces to the DIY&Repair - ie: DIY & Repair.
Yes! Please! That'd look much better.

Hey, -who- moved the "Internal Components" section to the DIY page? (already moved it back)

The frame menu still says "Technical docs-tutorials" although there are now REALLY no tutorials in that place. Please remove the tutorial word!

The DIY page contains a few things labeled "tutorials" but they are rather offtopic (like the willem eprom burner which is PC hardware), not worth to be mentioned in the frame menu.

----

For peripheral manuals, schematics, tech info: I think they are perfectly located where they are right now: in the "Peripherals" section. It'd make things much more confusing if you split the peripherals into technical and non-technical sections.

The thing that is a bit lost is technical info on the Internal Components. I'd suggest to move "Technical Docs" from literature to hardware. To me, literature sounds more like printed media.

Offline Bryce

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Re: Where to put new (or old) DIY projects.
« Reply #26 on: 10:15, 25 January 10 »
Morning nocash,
             I moved the internal components over for the exact reason you mentioned above. They're kind of in the wrong place no matter where you put them. The question is, where would you look for them if you were new to the site? So I thought Hardware, not Literature. But there's no other section in Hardware that really fits either, so I thought the people looking for this info would most likely be repairng a CPC or designing a hardware expansion. That's why I put them there. But as I said, they seem to be in the wrong place no matter where you put them.

Bryce.

Offline arnoldemu

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Re: Where to put new (or old) DIY projects.
« Reply #27 on: 11:39, 25 January 10 »
Ok:

-Created "DIY&Repair" link.
-Keeping "tech docs/documentation" for the time being, until the stuff has been moved
-Where to put the Service Manuals?
-We should also have a Regular Manuals page...

How's that for starters, mateys?
Thankyou!!!!!! :)
My games. My Games
My website with coding examples: Unofficial Amstrad WWW Resource

Offline Gryzor

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Re: Where to put new (or old) DIY projects.
« Reply #28 on: 12:49, 25 January 10 »
Ok:

-added space (tsk!)
-Technical docs-tutorials became Technical Docs.


...but technical manuals, I think belong to Technical Docs, not to Peripherals. Sure, there could be links to them uner the Peripherals section, but....

Offline Gryzor

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Re: Where to put new (or old) DIY projects.
« Reply #29 on: 12:51, 25 January 10 »
Oh, as for "literature". Perhaps not the best term, however the distinction is this:

If you have written an article detailing the workings of the 8128 CoffeeMaker Adapter (TM), then this will go under Peripherals, probably. If you have uploaded the manual for it, then it'd be literature. You see the distinction here?

Of course it's not been upkept, so maybe it's time we did away with it...

Also, nocash, you failed to see that there are actually printed media under the category :D

Offline Gryzor

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Re: Where to put new (or old) DIY projects.
« Reply #30 on: 13:23, 25 January 10 »
Ok, how about this:

Hardware
   In Short
   CPC464 etc
   CPC+ etc
   Peripherals (NO docs in here, only the actual hardware; maybe link to manuals etc)
   Gallery (kind of dead?)
Software
   Stays as it is, Gamebase will go here
Print (instead of Literature)
   Books
   Fanzines
   Magazines
   User Manuals
Technical
   Tech docs
   Schematics
   Service Manuals
   DIY & Repair (could also go to Hardware... still undecided)

Offline Bryce

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Re: Where to put new (or old) DIY projects.
« Reply #31 on: 14:48, 25 January 10 »
Nooooo!!! Leave the DIY & Repair in Hardware! It was hard enough getting it here! Don't go and move it back out!!!!! That's where it belongs. Everything else is fine by me.

As you said, gallery is dead, maybe it's time to delete it.

Bryce.

Offline nocash

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Re: Where to put new (or old) DIY projects.
« Reply #32 on: 17:09, 25 January 10 »
> I moved the internal components over for the exact reason you mentioned
> above... So I thought Hardware, not Literature.
Yes, move the whole Tech Docs to hardware. But don't make it a sub-category of DIY. I mean things like the Gate Array are essential internal components, not exotic do-it-yourself add-ons!

Programmers would never look at the DIY stuff if they search for info on the internal hardware. And people who want to make DIY hardware wouldn't need the internal component info in that place either.

> ...but technical manuals, I think belong to Technical Docs, not to Peripherals.
Technical Docs --> Hardware Extensions --> already has a link to Peripherals.
So people should find it easily if they look under Tech Docs.

Listing ALL peripherals in the Tech Docs sections would be too much, ie. the more important internal component stuff would get lost among them.

And personally, I'd say the peripherals are described just fine: Containing everything known about them on one page. If you'd split to, say, "scanned-manuals" and "html-manuals", then it'd become much more difficult if you are just looking for "manuals" in general.

And "literature", I think that fits only for novels, or magazines, and maybe books likes "peeks and pokes for the cpc".

Offline Gryzor

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Re: Where to put new (or old) DIY projects.
« Reply #33 on: 11:10, 27 January 10 »
Guys - really, I'm confused now. If you want, please produce a tree like the one I made, because it's very hard to keep track of all the possibilities in one's head.

As for the DIY going to Hardware - I'm leaning towards No. The reasoning behind the Hardware section is to document official hardware, not mods or fixes and whatnot. That's why I don't want docs under peripherals, as you can see. But if you feel so strongly about it... oh well.

As for the link to Peripherals, links don't count. If it was like that, then let's just put a link for the DIY project under some other page :D

About your point about manuals: you're right about that, I don't disagree, but the point it to have a section devoted to ALL manuals... In this case, I think a link to manuals would suffice. Noone talked about scanned/html manuals anyway, what I was saying was that, one thing is manuals, another articles written by us. A manual could be in pdf, jpg or even HTML form, it would be all the same. But it'd be different than a guide or article that one of us wrote...

Offline Bryce

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Re: Where to put new (or old) DIY projects.
« Reply #34 on: 11:55, 27 January 10 »
Once again, may I say "Nooooooooooo!!!!!!" DIY & Repair definitely has to stay in Hardware. It's NOT software and it's NOT a document it's hardware that you build yourself and it's the obvious place to find it.
Just as "Programming" is under "Software" (ie: DIY Software). Or should Programming also be moved to Documentation????

Bryce.

Offline Gryzor

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Re: Where to put new (or old) DIY projects.
« Reply #35 on: 16:40, 27 January 10 »
*Documentation* on programming should move to Documentation. :p

Ok, it stays under Hardware, I can't argue with you. But you'll build me a floppy emulator using SDs :D

Offline MacDeath

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Re: Where to put new (or old) DIY projects.
« Reply #36 on: 21:20, 27 January 10 »
Ok guys...
I spent the day working and perhaps messing with the wiki.

From what i did and learnt :


Categories is also a way to navigate through the Wiki.

Many Pages and Categories do have the exact same name.

When this happens, of course the page has to be pout in said category, but when doing this, Add " | " + "space" at the end of it so the page with the category name is put right on top of the Alphabetical list.

Other important pages may be put at "*" with the same technique so they appear before others in the Alphabetical list.


Sub categories :
Theres a special page of "uncathegorized cathegories".

Those should be the major ones, matching the search sidebar on the left of the screen or not ?

Well, those are different stuff.

The uncategorized categories (lol) are to be a mean to target at specific stuffs.

But sometimes also to display a full list of pages.
So they include a full alphabetical list of pages
but there's also the sub-categories list.
This one is also very important.


If some sub categories are especially specific, then pages may get just this on, plus de big big category
and not the medium category.

this target more specifical stuff then.

in smaller categories (sub sub categories) it is then easier to navigate, so the Sub categories may be just semi related stuff too.

Categories can be Sub-ed to each other when we come in certain concepts.

Examples :
Scene Members and scene group are sub-categories of each others, but both are also subpart of CPC history.


Examples :
Category:Applications
and
Category:Music and sound

Because some Applications are Music and sound related,  music and sound category is put into Applications category too.



Hardware would be a broad category with a shitton of page, but a proper list of subcategories may help us to go too smaller lists, and so on.
And also the Page called Hardware is too a mean to get more conceptual (not alphabetical) lists too.

A proper way may also to "porte-menteau" stuffs.

Music and sound :
Music and sound Hardwares
Music and sound Application
Music and sound DIY
...and so on.


As a result the Music and sound category may simply be a way to put all those related topics (sub categories) while each one would also be put into the relevant other category.

But probably not the best example as the music and sound category does not feature that much number of pages.
This would be done only when we get too much pages in said category.

I put Music and sound in other categories as few pages were put into it.
Yet if there are more pages, instead of this we would create subcategories in common with other major categories.

Example :
http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Ultra_Son
This page should get :
--(Category:Music and sound)(Category:Applications)(Category:Music and sound Applications)

In built Hardware :
I put the (category : in built harware) to life.
It was intended to be the opposition of peripheral indeed.
Give me a more proper name.
Is "in built" expression meant to be spelled "inbuilt" or "in-built" ?
"CPC Internal parts" may be more suitable of course.
« Last Edit: 22:01, 27 January 10 by MacDeath »

Offline Bryce

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Re: Where to put new (or old) DIY projects.
« Reply #37 on: 22:27, 27 January 10 »
Assuming you are talking about a category which would contain hardware details of all the chips (Z80/8255/AY-8912) and possibly the same for the disc-drive and tape mechanism, then as a native speaker, I would be more inclined to name it "Internal Components". The word "In-Built" like the German word "Eingebaut" or Frenches "Incorporé" doesn't really exist in English (Not sure where you're from, but they are the only Foreign Languages I know).

Bryce.

Edit: Just saw the Link under your mail, so I assume you're French. (And Homeless apparently :D Glad to see you've still managed to find a power socket for your CPC, I do hope your luck picks up :D )
« Last Edit: 22:30, 27 January 10 by Bryce »

Offline MacDeath

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Re: Where to put new (or old) DIY projects.
« Reply #38 on: 23:15, 27 January 10 »
Damn.

You britons. never any kind words for frenchs.

Don't you play pennergame in Britania ?


OK, so i'll put those in the "Category : CPC Internal Components ".

So I have some work to repair what I have done (won't be that hard indeed...)

Offline Bryce

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Re: Where to put new (or old) DIY projects.
« Reply #39 on: 23:26, 27 January 10 »
No not a Briton..... Born in Ireland, live in Germany, French wife. So I obviously have neither a problem with Germans or French.

Bryce.

Offline MacDeath

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Re: Where to put new (or old) DIY projects.
« Reply #40 on: 02:01, 28 January 10 »
Oops, you said "native"...forgot Ireland got screwed up by English crown in the past.
 :o

French Wife ? Living in Germany ?
Those are indeed a lot of reason to actually have problem with frenchs and Germans. ;D

Mes amitiés à votre épouse.

Offline Gryzor

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Re: Where to put new (or old) DIY projects.
« Reply #41 on: 12:37, 28 January 10 »
Fight! Fight! Fight!  World war III happening now - AND IT'S HERE ON THE WIKI!!! :D

Ok, concerning category name, indeed internal components is a valid term, however I'm not sure MacDeath's use for it would be 100% appropriate... for instance, an external PSU or a monitor is not, of course an "internal component", so why not give us some more examples? As I said elsewhere, I don't think we've got enough items to need a separate category name...

As for the major categories matching the sidebar, hm, never thought of it, could be either way actually...

Offline MacDeath

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Re: Where to put new (or old) DIY projects.
« Reply #42 on: 13:28, 28 January 10 »
Most of simple CPC users like me have almost no peripherals...

All I have is a display and power supply (screen, MP2...) because they are needed to use the computer.
The Romboxes, Ramboxes or any Symbybox4000synthetiser are optionnal.

As a result, all that is in the original box when you bought your amstrad is suitable for this category.
Just look at it and tell me.

The Hardware page is some kind of...big.

Lot of stuff of course as it is the complete list.
Yet there's also the peripheral list, big too as a lot of manufacturers...
Amstrad Products is more "CPC history oriented"
Internal components is not the most suitable vocable as of course screen is external, yet it was sold With the CPC most of time.
Cartridge are included too because you simply can't run a Plus without.
Disc drive too because most 6128 include one.
and so on.


I added the cracktro category too, but some more examples would be great.

Also a Plus categories concerning Demos as Plus productions, less numerous, need a way to be sorted from the main demo categories.


All this just add thematic layout.


Just putting in PLUS category and Demo category is not exactly the same as if you also add a PLUS DEMO category too.

This means more way to access to this page.



I was tempted to put passed away peoples into Vaporware too, but such humor was well...you know... :-[
Instead, i put them on top of list in History and Demoscene.
« Last Edit: 13:33, 28 January 10 by MacDeath »

Offline Bryce

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Re: Where to put new (or old) DIY projects.
« Reply #43 on: 15:06, 28 January 10 »
I find it quite fitting, that someone calling themselves "MacDeath" should sort the Category for the Deceased :) But that just my tasteless humour. Grim (reaper) would be another obvious choice.

I've never really got the idea of Categories, but someone was kind enough to add them to the pages I had created. I will add them from now on.

Oh, and just in case I haven't mentioned it enough..... DIY & Repair should stay in Hardware :D

Bryce.

Offline MacDeath

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Re: Where to put new (or old) DIY projects.
« Reply #44 on: 17:25, 28 January 10 »
Don't worry, Categories and the side bar of the screen are 2 different thing.

To be honnest, the category is a good way to surf in a wiki.

But some peoples don't know how to do it, simply.

It's like a theme navigator, but at the bottom of the screen.


MacDeath pseudo comes from the time a was an addict Counter strike gamer.
MaxDeath = max frag...
or the fact I am really bad so I got killed and awfull lot.

And also because it sounds Heavy Metal !!!
« Last Edit: 17:26, 28 January 10 by MacDeath »

Offline Bryce

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Re: Where to put new (or old) DIY projects.
« Reply #45 on: 17:57, 28 January 10 »
Fair enough. Bryce is taken from a Character in the legendary "Max Headroom" Series of the 80's. Don't think it ever got to France, but a "must see", if you are an 8-Bit fan (and you can manage seeing dreadful haircuts, badly tailored stone-washed jeans AND white sports socks all at the same time).

Bryce.

Offline MacDeath

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Re: Where to put new (or old) DIY projects.
« Reply #46 on: 19:05, 28 January 10 »
Yeah, Max Headroom.
that's so 80's early 90's...
Cyberpunk and all...

We had it in france.
Also some kind of Max headroom show too.

Seriously, those 80's were so...crazy. 8)

Offline Gryzor

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Re: Where to put new (or old) DIY projects.
« Reply #47 on: 12:33, 29 January 10 »
Well, still, no reason for a "built-in" category. Way too few items. The way I see it, the main items (CPC, monitor) would go directly under hardware, while others could fall under other categories as well. It's getting way too much to create a category for a couple of items... but this discussion belongs to the other thread.

So, where do we stand on the sidebar issue?

Offline Bryce

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Re: Where to put new (or old) DIY projects.
« Reply #48 on: 14:02, 29 January 10 »
I see no reason to change anything on the Side-bar at the moment, it covers everything it needs to and the order/grouping is fine too. The only change to consider would be to retire the "Gallery" link.

Bryce.

Offline nocash

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Re: Where to put new (or old) DIY projects.
« Reply #49 on: 21:45, 29 January 10 »
Hi Gryzor,

> The reasoning behind the Hardware section is to document
> official hardware,  not mods or fixes and whatnot.

Mods/fixes/whatnot are hardware, too. Keep the DIY in hardware. Some DIY projects are rather exotic, but still, they are hardware. And other DIY projects are standard equipment. For example, DIY joystick Y-cables, are sorts of more official than official hardware.

And yes, having the official hardware documented in hardware would be great! That's why it is so very-very confusing that it is NOT there.

All the most-important info about Internal Components (Gate Array etc), and Built-in connectors (joystick pin-outs, etc.) is MISSING in the hardware section, don't you see that?

Instead, that info is in the Technical Docs. So why don't you move that page from Literature to Hardware? The Technical Docs mainly contain info in internal hardware (plus info on the BIOS/BASIC firmware, which is, sorts-of, hardware, too).

If you want a page for official manuals (in scanned, OCRed, typed-up or whatever else form), okay. At the moment no such page exists, but if you create such a page, it should go to Literature.

Oh, yeah. And the two galleries are confusing. Would be better to link to the new gallery directly. Though some pictures (eg. GX4000) from the old gallery would still to be moved to the new one.