Where to put new (or old) DIY projects.

[nocash]

NB. the section labeled "Is this true?" on http://cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Digital_Joysticks says that GX4000 joysticks would have been "Exclusive Hardware" can somebody confirm (and explain) that? Did the GX4000 use different joystick pin-outs? Judging from the Arnold V Specs, the pin-outs should be excactly the same as on normal CPCs.

[MacDeath]

Ok, modified the thing in "Amstrad Joysticks"...(digital joystick page)
(would "Game controllers" or "controllers peripherals" be more suitable..?)

By exclusive Joystick, I meant :

--Atari Standard wasn't really standard.

--As sega almost used it.
yet because Sega consoles were the most sold (in the world) the majority of games controllers in "Atari Standard" featuring 2 buttons (usefull with Amstrad Plus...but sometimes with CPC old) are in fact Sega standards, not Atari.

The same with mouses :
PC mouse with 9 pin serial (they used too...), Atari ST mouses, Amiga Mouses...all use the 9 pin joystick like connector, but need a proper power supply, so some manufacturers prefered using the Extension port on Amstrad, thus we have so many different solutions and the few softwares using those may not work with the same solution.

Idem with light guns !

On CPC old...we never got the 2 button as a standard feature (few games actually allows its use.)

And lightGuns, well...

most models allows to run... let'"s say...from 1 to 6 games each ?
(West phaser...how many games run with it)  ?

And there are... well, perhaps 3 to 5 different standards (including the Plus light gun) ?

On the other Hand, Sega got a lot of third party company to build compatible solution, yet all were 100% compatible in Sega World.


And amstrads joy ports didn't included +5V power (or thing like this) while Atari ST, Amiga or Sega did...
THIS was the "exclusive" aspect.

DIY :

there is a page and a category for it.

The category, it's a "category:*****" type page, and it is automatised.
While the "page" is simply a mundane page covering the same concept, so the lists are done differently (manually indeed).

The "category:DIY" is now put in the "Category:hardware".

The link in the side bar is a links to the page, not the category...
But you can check the categories at the bottom of the page...(the things in blue)

Also each DIY pages may be put into Hardware And documentation "categories" individually (and would...unless it feature no documentation...are there any ?).
I even put the "replace your Disc Driver belt" in "category:Amstrad history" because we all know it's part of Amstrad history/culture.

*"WTF, my CPC doesn't work ?"
*"change that fucking Belt !!!!"
*"Oh yeah, that was it..."

Often heard...
90% causes of a non-functionning 6128-664 comes from this.

3 components were faulty in Amstrad 8 bit world :

*Drive belt : always to change after some times..
*3" discs : on day there won't be no more.
  *ACID chip (as we need them to run the basic/Plus range or to build new cartridges...).

When you buy/find a CPC/Plus, you know you'll had to change the driver belt until it was allready done recently.
Perhaps the only advantage of 464/464+...


The "internal components" are often put into a lot of categories :
Internal component, hardware, sometime softwares (were dealing with features, such as locomotive Basic, which is some kind or internal component...), Amstrad product (screens, disc drives...) or even CPC history... and so on.


Yet the side bar is not the same as the categories system.
It's an additionnal way to search and navigate.

Both may be put at the same time, it depends the way you navigate inside a wiki.

Personnally I use the category system a lot...
Others don't.

Category is a way to find pages that may not be well linked otherwise.

To find a game, this may be hard if you don't use the categories...or even if you don't spell the games name properly in the search engine : this one seems to have problems with bold-letters sometimes...or even if you screw up the eventual plurial(s)...




Post Edition :
After a check, I found out DIY category was uncategorised...

I put it into [[Category:Hardware]][[Category:CPC History]][[Category:Peripherals]]...
so it will be easier to find/navigate through...

I put it into CPC history (as a subcategory then) because it's part of the CPC "culture"...is it not ?
And as it is just a subcategory, the main list is not spammed with every DIY pages as may be the case of the more exhaustive "Category:Hardware"...because we don't put them individually into this category, despite often in "category:hardware" on the other hand.

That's the point with the "Category" system.
You may put a category into another, but each pages from this category won't appear as labelled into this one individually, onbly the "Category:*******" type page..

Pehaps we should add a bit of text to tell peoples to check for the categories too to find more informations on related topics...As the "direct links" and "links chapters" may miss some points too...

[TFM]

...
(plus info on the BIOS/BASIC firmware, which is, sorts-of, hardware, too).
[/quote]

Well, BIOS/BASIC/Firmware is clearly software.

[TFM]

3 components were faulty in Amstrad 8 bit world :

*Drive belt : always to change after some times..
*3" discs : on day there won't be no more.
  *ACID chip (as we need them to run the basic/Plus range or to build new cartridges...).

* If you use your drive often, then the belt is good for 20 years
* It's the same for every kind of media. Doesn't matter if it is a 3" disc or a CD, one day they will be not any longer being produced.
* ACID - the name has been choosen wise! It let taste the Plus a bit acid!

[nocash]

Hi MacDeath. The atari standard is the standard, because Atari has invented the 9pin joystick ports. And with the C64 using it too, it's really the standard. If amstrad or sega decided to brew up non-standard variants is a different thing.

I've moved your info about sega controllers to the "Digital Joystick Related" page (okay?) since it does directly refer to CPC joysticks. Still it may be of some use in case somebody wants to use sega controllers on the cpc. I didn't knew that sega consoles were popular (I've never seen one in my life).

Not sure if I see the relation between joysticks and mice/lightguns though. Well, okay, some of them do connect to the joystick port. Adding a list with links to that hardware -would- be a good thing.

And the point about "exclusive gx4000" - you want to say that many gx4000 games require 2-button joysticks, or what? If so, say that! It'd even would make sense, since the gx4000 was shipped with 2-button gamepads.

[MacDeath]

Ok...

I've read somewhere that the GX4000/plus joypads were specifical.

Perhaps they are not.

The fact is : Atari Standard joysticks were mostly 1 button on personnal computers.

So as the GX4000/+ included 2 buttons, well...

I also remember having some interesting issues with joystick including autofires...
On some models activating it would disable the fire.

Yet I wonder if on some other models, it would act as a Fire2...


http://www.thosewerethedays.de/joystick_galerie.htm

In this site, there are shitton of Joysticks from those times.

The ones I remember well having :

Konix Speedking :
1 button, but existed in 2 button for sega or nintendo 8 bit...
Perhaps the best joystick on the marquet unlet you were left handed.

Quickjoy V Superboard SV-125
I had on of those, I don't remember well concerning autofire, but I do remember it did actually feature 2 buttons working on a CPC.
And in my memory I think autofire could work... (this joy could use power battery)


Spectravideo Quick Shot 318-102 /Joystick Quickshot
This on I had with autofire, which didn't worked of course (this disabled the fire button)
Also despite featuring 2 button, they were all Fire1...perhaps, or only one worked (long time passed since).


BTW you have done well, I must admit my original page on joystick was a bit full of approximations...


Concerning the "Digital joystick related" page, I hadin mind the idea to get it as a DIY to convert Sega Joys... and others.


And yes, Sega consoles were quite popular, yet it may depends were are you from...

The console war in 8-16bit era was between Nintendo and Sega, Nec being an awesome outsider yet with a poor marketting strategy (badly distributed...)
As a result, in france, Master systems and MegaDrives are very common, and perhaps the commonest "Atari standard" joysticks featuring more than 1 button.

I'll get my hand on my good old Megadrive and it's joypads so I would test again or even dissect one.

I'll try to take good pictures so they may be featured in the Wiki for a proper DIY project.

Not sure if I see the relation between joysticks and mice/lightguns though. Well, okay, some of them do connect to the joystick port. Adding a list with links to that hardware -would- be a good thing.

As you said, some lightgunz or mouse on CPC did actually used the Joy port, despite adding a powersupply (sometimes derivated from the +5V from the screen)
So yeah this would be a good idea.

And the point about "exclusive gx4000" - you want to say that many gx4000 games require 2-button joysticks, or what? If so, say that! It'd even would make sense, since the gx4000 was shipped with 2-button gamepads.

All right, not that exclusive, yet most other machines featured a +5V pin, Amstrad not...
Yet the GX/+ paddles are really a shitfest in themselves...
So getting a Sega MegaDrive paddle or a Sega Master system Arcade-like joystick may be quite sweet indeed.

To be honest, I'm planning to get my hand on a Speed king, even a NES (nintendo entertainment system) one, and simply rewire it entirely in CPC standard...


Do you think it may be possible to simply had the +5V on Joyport on the CPC ? so many stuff could be used as they are ?
Well, I don't think so indeed.


Also i planned to include montages to introduce in CPC world concepts such as double directionnal pafddles or 10-12 buttons controllers...(for one player games or even network games...)

Just re-wire a modern Playstation paddle with a y cable system...


But i'm not that much into soldering wires at the moment.
Yet i'm thinking about an "adapter box" project.



PS : I just found this site...
http://www.clive.nl/amstrad-schneider
He seems to sell some books...



While I got you there :

As this topic is DIY related...


I just tried to put some old PC controller (not all analogic, yet all using a 15 pin serial...so i can insert them in the Analog joy of a plus...)

I had those result while the Plus works in basic :
(azerty setting)

==With a "thrust" cheap paddle (don't know exact reference) : it features 4 directions, 6 buttons : A, B, tA, TB, trigger left and trigger right.
But I think it allowed only 4 buttons on the PC...

A button/ tA button and right trigger button :
"31MKJFDQZ"

left trigger button :
"654ùlhgs->X"
The rest do nothing.

===Genius Power Station (AKA the monster ) :
Arcade like monster with 6 buttons and 4 directions and shitton of autofires...

Completely nothing !
Wel, even on my old PC I could not get it to work properly, drivers were inexistant....
But as it is nice and full of microswitches, and as my PC no more features a 15 pin serial, I'm certainly modd it into a CPC awesomness by the way...


==Trust Predator Lite :
analogic 4 buttons joy :

Okay, with the fire buttons i get the same sequences as on the cheap paddle :
31MKJFDQZ
654ùlhgs->X

"->" means right direction...Bold letters featured as on the screen.

I also read somewhere that Tennic cup 2 might use Analogic joystick for player 2...
I'll try it with mine just in case.

[MacDeath]

Me again.

I gave Tennis cup 2 a try with my analog joy.

Seems to work...yet not really.

I managed to get to directions up and left, yet right and down don't work.

Possible explanation : My joy is a 4 button one.

As a result, it is a bit too exotic for the Amstrad (same as with Sega Megadrive gamepads, they are 4 buttons so rely on customisation of the Atari Standard)

If someone of you could find a 2 button Analog joy and give it a try...that would be fine (i'll have a look too, pehaps my brother still own a 2 button Anal joy...pun intended...)


I edited articles related to this topic :
Tennis cup 2
Analog joys...

notably the "CPC+ Games with Analog Joystick Support" part wondering if such game actually exist... it does.

Yet a more complete research on the topic is still to be done.

Feel free to edit my contributions as I may not be the best specialist on the matter.

I opened a new topic in hardware section in this forum :
http://cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php/topic,546.new.html#new