#CPCtelera 1.4.2. release

[EgoTrip]

@EgoTrip: in the meantime, while waiting for tools to evolve, if your designing skills are good, you can always "hire" a programmer to aid you in the creation of great stuff 

Nah, nobody can be bothered to see a project through, can't rely on anyone really.

[ssr86]

[...] can't rely on anyone really.

I've also learnt that
It's sad but seems painfully true (especially on smaller "scenes")

[mahlemiut]

Can't build it myself, unfortunately...

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##> Header file 'boost/graph/adjacency_list.hpp' not found in the system. boost/graph/adjacency_list.hpp is part of libboost, which is required for building SDCC. Please, install boost / libboost-dev / libboost-devel or similar in your system and run setup again.

I installed libboost-dev, and checked the that include file exists (it does, in /usr/include), and it still doesn't care.

Some way to add an include directory?

[TFM]

@EgoTrip: in the meantime, while waiting for tools to evolve, if your designing skills are good, you can always "hire" a programmer to aid you in the creation of great stuff 

Hi Ronaldo. He actually did a really great and funny game for the 2013 ROM competition.


But let me put my 3 Pfennige to this topic. I don't think that people have a lack of ideas what to make. Personally I think the lack of time is the biggest issue. And I don't know a single coder who has not lots of ideas by himself / herself; only time is the limit. 

[ronaldo]

I installed libboost-dev, and checked the that include file exists (it does, in /usr/include), and it still doesn't care.

@mahlemiut: Please, tell me which SO and version are you using, and how did you install libboost-dev.

The shell script tests that libboost is working by compiling a small code sample. If it does not compile, it means that something is wrong with your installation. Normally, that means that you do not have installed libboost-dev, but it certainly could be other things. Installing libboost-dev should have created boost/graph/adjacency_list.hpp inside /usr/include, and that's its right place. But having the header is not enough (you also must have libboost_graph.a and libboost_graph.so under /usr/lib, for instance. (I assume that you are using a Linux, am I right?)

@TFM: I agree with you . I didn't meant to say that people is lacking ideas, just giving what was intended to be a "funny-friendly suggestion" for @EgoTrip, not something propperly serious. My english writting skills are limited though .

[Trebmint]

I guess the issue is that the level of access to being able to produce a good CPC game is Asm, or with a Framework like this C. That cuts a lot of very creative people off from producing anything. I'm thinking of people like carniviac who is clearly an amazingly talented artist who would like to code a game but is in fact limited to making a Amstrad like game for a PC with tools such as GameMaker.


ego is correct in that although we consider ourself a community, using others for a project often results in despair. its difficult for one person to motivate themself to see through a project... and that gets harder the more people that are involved.



CPCtelara actually helps with speed developing, and is another little step for those with less hardware/z80 knowledge. Things like AGD also offer hope, so perhaps one day we will actually gather the tools enough to be able crack this issue for good. I hope we see CPCtelera develop on and on as it has an amazing potential imho

[Ygdrazil]

Ditto! 

I've also learnt that
It's sad but seems painfully true (especially on smaller "scenes")

[AMSDOS]

Just because one person can do something doesn't mean everyone can. I have tried and tried to get my head around coding but it just confuses the hell out of me. Usually when I try to learn something, eventually it "clicks" and I get it. But the click has never happened with ASM. My BASIC is pretty weak too. My brain is simply not wired to handle it.

What language do you normally use?

[FloppySoftware]

I don't think that people have a lack of ideas what to make. Personally I think the lack of time is the biggest issue. And I don't know a single coder who has not lots of ideas by himself / herself; only time is the limit. 

You're totally right.

[KaosOverride]

I don't think that people have a lack of ideas what to make. Personally I think the lack of time is the biggest issue. And I don't know a single coder who has not lots of ideas by himself / herself; only time is the limit. 

I can be an example, if I had few time before, now I'm father of a 1 month child and my time is almost for him 

No time for hardware experiments (Wiznet prototype board, etc...) and very little to advance with my capriceRPI2 port 

But at the good side, I have a heir for my CPC empire!!!!! Some years later he will enjoy with the good old games!!!

[mahlemiut]

I use Ubuntu 10.04 (yes, I know it's old), and libboost-dev is installed from the standard repository.

The header is located at /usr/include/boost/graph/adjacency_list.hpp

[mahlemiut]

Update, due to the server crash:

While building SDCC:

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gcc -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I. -I/home/bsr/cpctelera-master/cpctelera/tools/sdcc-3.4.3/src/support/sdbinutils/binutils  -I. -I/home/bsr/cpctelera-master/cpctelera/tools/sdcc-3.4.3/src/support/sdbinutils/binutils -I../bfd -I/home/bsr/cpctelera-master/cpctelera/tools/sdcc-3.4.3/src/support/sdbinutils/binutils/../bfd -I/home/bsr/cpctelera-master/cpctelera/tools/sdcc-3.4.3/src/support/sdbinutils/binutils/../include -DLOCALEDIR="\"/home/bsr/cpctelera-master/cpctelera/tools/sdcc-3.4.3/share/locale\"" -Dbin_dummy_emulation=bin_vanilla_emulation  -W -Wall -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wshadow -O3 -fsigned-char -MT arparse.o -MD -MP -MF .deps/arparse.Tpo -c -o arparse.o `test -f arparse.c || echo /home/bsr/cpctelera-master/cpctelera/tools/sdcc-3.4.3/src/support/sdbinutils/binutils/`arparse.c
In file included from /home/bsr/cpctelera-master/cpctelera/tools/sdcc-3.4.3/src/support/sdbinutils/binutils/../include/alloca-conf.h:1,
                 from /home/bsr/cpctelera-master/cpctelera/tools/sdcc-3.4.3/src/support/sdbinutils/binutils/sysdep.h:25,
                 from arparse.y:30:
./config.h:7:4: error: #error config.h must be #included before system headers
make[7]: *** [arparse.o] Error 1

OS is 64-bit.

[ronaldo]

@mahlemiut: I don't know where exactly is your problem. I've downloaded and installed a fresh ubuntu 10.04 desktop AMD64 and everything works for me. These have been my steps:

   
• Download and install Ubuntu 10.04 LTS AMD64
• Open a terminal
• Execute these commands:

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sudo apt-get install build-essential bison flex libboost-dev
wget https ://github.com/lronaldo/cpctelera/archive/v1.0.1.zip
unzip v1.0.1.zip
cd cpctelera-master/
./setup.sh


I did this and found no problem at all.

I suggest, if you haven't done it already, that you delete the folder and follow the steps (except installing ubuntu). Maybe something meshed up during previous install. I cannot think of anything else, as I cannot reproduce the problem on a fresh install.

PD: Again, remove the additional space between https and ://github.... Had to add it to prevent the forum filter from adding tags inside the code tag.

[TCMSLP]

This looks very impressive and may finally give me the tools I need to start developing on the CPC!

Can anyone provide an indicator to speed difference between code compiled from C and ASM?   I know ASM will likely still be faster, but how much so?
Are the cpctelera funtions/libs reasonably efficient?

Regardless, it's going to be significantly faster than basic.  I'm looking forward to having a play

Steve

[arnoldemu]

@TCMSLP: A lot of the library code is implemented as assembler.

I assume you'll write a lot of your game logic in C?

Do expect it to be slower than assembler, I can't say how much, but you can get an idea if you look at the assembly listing generated by SDCC. Perhaps 15% slower??

The SDCC compiler is improving in it's code generation.

The advantage you could have with C, apart from being easier to code than directly in assembler, is that you can modify the way you do things and choose different algorithms which would take longer in assembler.

I think it's definitely worth giving a go. I've got another game in development and that uses SDCC, C and library code.

I think in another thread I posted some tips on how to modify your C code to force SDCC to generate better code.

[ronaldo]

Can anyone provide an indicator to speed difference between code compiled from C and ASM?   I know ASM will likely still be faster, but how much so?
Are the cpctelera funtions/libs reasonably efficient?

CPCtelera's functions have been implemented with speed in mind. They are very fast. One can never be sure that they are fully optimized, but they at least you can safely assume that they are optimized a great deal. We have a very slow development cycle, because we want to meet some quality standards (optimization, code explanation, documentation...).

Also, take into account that CPCtelera lets you program in C and Assembly (or a mix of them!). Therefore, you can always start programming in C and then continue learning some assembly and go improving your productions .

Moreover, one great thing in CPCtelera is that it only includes the code for the functions you use in your final binary. So, you don't have to do complicated copy/paste/restructure cycles to ensure that your binaries are not too heavy .

Also, @arnoldemu's explanations could help you a great deal into creating better C code to make SDCC produce faster assembler. All the tools are ready for you to start: whenever you wanted, we are waiting impatient to see new productions appear

[mahlemiut]

Ok, tried building SDCC separately, same error occurs.  Downloaded the SDCC 3.4.0 source on its own, also gives the same error.  Clearly the issue is with SDCC.

[ronaldo]

@mahlemiut: Have you tried the exact steps I wrote in my last post? I have done them and everything works fine on a fresh install of Ubuntu 10.04 AMD64. It seems a configuration problem on your installation. If you already tried the steps, maybe you can try this upgrading your installation before:

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sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get upgrade

Be sure to have build-essential installed, as the error you show seems from autotools.

I do not exactly now what else to look for, specially knowing that everything builds on a fresh install. You may have a configuration change in autotools, or some symbolic link, but it is quite rare. Please, confirm me that you have tried the steps I gave you before looking for something else.

PD: Downloading SDCC apart is not recommended, as SDCC included with CPCtelera has been modified by us to build faster and work in many systems.

[mahlemiut]

build-essential is installed (v11.4build1)

I tried SDCC 3.4.0 to see if it could be built, but it does appear to suffer the same issue.

I have an Arch Linux VM that I can try to build on also, but not having much luck anyone, but the issues there could be caused by a bad upgrade (ran out of disk space during upgrade), am still working through it currently.

[mahlemiut]

This happens on Arch Linux, which makes no sense:

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> Checking required libraries...
>>> Looking for 'boost/graph/adjacency_list.hpp'.../usr/include/boost/functional/hash/hash_fwd.hpp:30:21: error: missing binary operator before token "("
/usr/include/boost/type_traits/config.hpp:29:23: error: missing binary operator before token "("
/usr/include/boost/type_traits/config.hpp:60:21: error: missing binary operator before token "("
/usr/include/boost/mpl/aux_/config/adl.hpp:29:28: error: missing binary operator before token "("
...and dozens more of the same error.

EDIT: Sorted this out now, needed to re-install boost and boost-libs completely

[Singaja]

No problems installing on OS X Yosemite 10.10.4 (beta). The needed dependency was boost , which I installed through brew package manager.
I love the install script delayed text display animation, it's adorable. Cheers

[ronaldo]

EDIT: Sorted this out now, needed to re-install boost and boost-libs completely

@mahlemiut: I understand that this means you got it working on Arch, isn't it?

I love the install script delayed text display animation, it's adorable. Cheers

Thank you, @Singaja . And thank you for testing also. We have expent a lot of time testing on OSX and it is always a pleasure to know that it works on different versions .

[mahlemiut]

@mahlemiut: I understand that this means you got it working on Arch, isn't it?

Yes, it builds fine on Arch now.  Only other issue is most of the tools are Windows-based, tried to run Arkos and RGAS in Mono, but that didn't work, and I don't have .NET installed via Wine currently (limited disk space).

[arnoldemu]

Is source to RGAS available?

I've had experience making a c# app run on mac using mono.

[ronaldo]

No, source is not available, but Lachlan has been working on it since I asked him to include RGAS in CPCtelera. RGAS runs well on Mono > 4.0. However, Linux distros normally include 3.x versions of Mono.

I usually run RGAS under wine, which uses a more updated version of Mono. There RGAS runs well. Arkos Tracker, however, only runs well under Windows. I generally use a Virtual Machine for that.

I agree in that it will be nice for all tools to grow and have better compatibility but that depends on each author, their available time and many other things. If you wish, you can ask them about better support or new features. Other idea would be to develop new tools or to include other tools with CPCtelera. If authors of the tools want, I'm more than happy to include them with CPCtelera.