Poll

Orgams: Separator for module (aka namespace)

. (dot)
5 (83.3%)
:: (double colon)
1 (16.7%)

Total Members Voted: 6

Author Topic: Orgams: Best assembler in my living room.  (Read 8553 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline m_dr_m

  • 464 Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 305
  • Country: gb
  • http://orgams.wikidot.com/
    • OrgaMS!
    • Awards
Orgams: Best assembler in my living room.
« on: 06:57, 28 April 20 »

For those of you new to Orgams (http://orgams.wikidot.com/): it is the best full-blown Z80 IDE on CPC 128k. By 2022 it will become so powerful that Zilog will start using it to crossdev *from* CPC.


Used to make Germany-winning French demos and Orgams itself, we can gladly say it is both fresh and mature.


Quick start: http://orgams.wikidot.com/userguide#toc0
Warning: Import is very slow, for some reasons under my control.


Which version to use?
Well it's up to you!
I can say that thanks to hundreds of NRTs, the latest version is very stable and that's the one I use every day. Now that really sounds like a salesman pitch.
The release comes with example sources, though.
Yes, but the alpha comes with accurate Z80 timing and flags behaviour.
Yes, but you can change the font and the colors in the release disc.
« Last Edit: 12:59, 21 September 21 by m_dr_m »
like
0
No reactions

Offline GUNHED

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 2.836
  • Country: de
  • Reincarnation of TFM
    • FutureOS - The quickest OS for the CPC and Plus
    • Awards
Re: Orgams: Best assembler in my living room.
« Reply #1 on: 16:42, 28 April 20 »
Thanks for the great post! It's a well way to enter the world of Orgams.

Now let me please ask some noob questions. I'm sure they're of common interest for beginners.

1. What are the differences between the two versions:
- Demomaker's Delight
- Or EcstaticEndeavour
Is one just the actual release, while the other is the actual newest version. Or is there more to that?

2. What are NRTs?

3. What is an .o file?
like
0
No reactions
http://futureos.de --> Get the revolutionary FutureOS (Update: 2021.01.24)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/LambdaSpeak_RSX_by_TFM.zip --> Get the RSX-ROM for LambdaSpeak :-) (Updated: 2021.07.15)

Offline m_dr_m

  • 464 Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 305
  • Country: gb
  • http://orgams.wikidot.com/
    • OrgaMS!
    • Awards
Re: Orgams: Best assembler in my living room.
« Reply #2 on: 17:04, 28 April 20 »

Hey! Thanks for your interest.

1. What are the differences between the two versions:
- Demomaker's Delight
- Or EcstaticEndeavour
Is one just the actual release, while the other is the actual newest version. Or is there more to that?
The different versions alphabetically sorted:
* AsterixAhead (obsolete release)
* BugsBunnyHill (obsolete release)
* CodigoConCPC (obsolete release)
* Demomaker's Delight (last official release)
* EroticEndeavour (current working Beta)


All differences are listed in the notes. You can find all updates between DD and EE (and also updates between each beta) here: http://orgams.wikidot.com/working (just after the screenshot)


Quote
2. What are NRTs?
How do you check bugs aren't introduced in such a big program? Answer:
Non Regression Tests. Automatized tests that check everything is working as expected. For example for each opcode (>1000), i verify that disassembling + assembling gives back the opcode. If a test passes, it simply returns. Otherwise, there is a breakpoint at the expectation mismatch. 

Quote
3. What is an .o file?
A source file (encoded).
For orgams to be that fast, both in assembling time (around 1000 lines / sec) and in navigation (check CONTROL-ENTER for exemple to access an arbitrary routine), the source is pre-assembled. That's why import (from text files) takes so much time: most of the work is done there. 
A side effect is that it is quite compact. A maxam source will see its size divided by 5 or more (unless the comments predominate).
Also, this special format also to store some meta-informations, like the current cursor position (so you go back to your work exactly where you left it), last modified lines (CONTROL-M to cycle through those), ...
« Last Edit: 20:44, 28 April 20 by m_dr_m »
like
0
No reactions

Offline GUNHED

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 2.836
  • Country: de
  • Reincarnation of TFM
    • FutureOS - The quickest OS for the CPC and Plus
    • Awards
Re: Orgams: Best assembler in my living room.
« Reply #3 on: 19:39, 28 April 20 »
Sounds great!!!  :) :) :)  Can't wait FutureFlight version.  ;D
like
0
No reactions
http://futureos.de --> Get the revolutionary FutureOS (Update: 2021.01.24)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/LambdaSpeak_RSX_by_TFM.zip --> Get the RSX-ROM for LambdaSpeak :-) (Updated: 2021.07.15)

Offline m_dr_m

  • 464 Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 305
  • Country: gb
  • http://orgams.wikidot.com/
    • OrgaMS!
    • Awards
Re: Orgams: Best assembler in my living room.
« Reply #4 on: 22:17, 30 April 20 »
Nice new graphics dump feature and step by step emulated execution.

You will like the next version of graphic dump: faster for the default one. New mode where you can highlight just a specific byte value.
In a near future, you'll be able to take snapshot of the memory and do a diff between past & present.
like
0
No reactions

Offline GUNHED

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 2.836
  • Country: de
  • Reincarnation of TFM
    • FutureOS - The quickest OS for the CPC and Plus
    • Awards
Re: Orgams: Best assembler in my living room.
« Reply #5 on: 16:38, 01 May 20 »
In a near future, you'll be able to take snapshot of the memory and do a diff between past & present.
That's great. Now, I do have a feature request which would really boost Orgams beyond everything else. Because it doesn't exist in that way (sadly, AFAIK).
Aside of a memory snapshot, please also do an I/O snapshot. I mean save the data which has been sent to ports. These things are very _very_ important when writing code for new hardware. Hope you like the idea, maybe one day it will be reality.  :)
« Last Edit: 16:49, 01 May 20 by GUNHED »
like
0
No reactions
http://futureos.de --> Get the revolutionary FutureOS (Update: 2021.01.24)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/LambdaSpeak_RSX_by_TFM.zip --> Get the RSX-ROM for LambdaSpeak :-) (Updated: 2021.07.15)

Offline m_dr_m

  • 464 Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 305
  • Country: gb
  • http://orgams.wikidot.com/
    • OrgaMS!
    • Awards
Re: Orgams: Best assembler in my living room.
« Reply #6 on: 23:48, 01 May 20 »

Great idea! I plan to do a similar thing for CRTC to help with rupture debugging (including on CRTC other than yours), plus one surprise feature.
Do you have a specific need right now? Anyway, to brainstorm the best possible interface, can you describe how you would use such a feature?


Execution would require to happen in emulation (trace) mode, which is 5x to 50x slower.
The timing could become a problem with some devices. One way to mitigate that (which is a cool feature on and par itself): mock the device. That is, also emulate the device! The downside is you have to setup how the device is meant to react, i.e. the responses to IN r,(c) with respect to the contexte.
Or, (b), we could instrumentate to have both the real execution and then the emulated one.
Or, (c), a more intrusive instrumentation would replace each OUT / IN by a call to the recording routine. The overhead would be much less.


There would be at last too ways to trigger the recording:
  • In source (e.g.  IO RECORD START directive). That would add such instrumentation code switching to record mode. The benefit is that you can execute at full speed until you reach this point. Also allows (b) and (c) above.
  • From monogams (the monitor). It's less intrusive and allow to trace something already burned in ROM (though with Orgams + |BURN it takes me less than 3 seconds to change code in ROM).


Things to consider:
  • Filtering port. E.g mask + expected bits of the port to be recorded. Actually AND mask and OR mask allow to describe exactly what you want for each bit (must be set, must be reset, don't care).
  • How much to record.
  • Breakpoint for a specific port + value combination.
  • I thought of something else, but then forgot.
  • I thought of yet another thing, but completely unrelated.


It could be reality soon if you're willing to help!
like
0
No reactions

Offline GUNHED

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 2.836
  • Country: de
  • Reincarnation of TFM
    • FutureOS - The quickest OS for the CPC and Plus
    • Awards
Re: Orgams: Best assembler in my living room.
« Reply #7 on: 19:23, 04 May 20 »
Plenty of great ideas!

For the beginning one could reserve one 64 KB expansion RAM bank and put the last OUT value in the corresponding address. Of course that's a waste of RAM, so it would be good to be able to switch the feature on an off.

Example:

LD BC,&FA7E
OUT (C),D

Now the content of register D would be stored in RAM address &FA7E. Later on you could look which bytes was sent to the port just by reading the value.

A more sophisticated approach would be to store the last xxx OUTs in a table, like IO port and value. That is 3 bytes for each OUT command.

The same could be done for IN commands too. But it may make a bit less sense.
like
0
No reactions
http://futureos.de --> Get the revolutionary FutureOS (Update: 2021.01.24)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/LambdaSpeak_RSX_by_TFM.zip --> Get the RSX-ROM for LambdaSpeak :-) (Updated: 2021.07.15)

Offline m_dr_m

  • 464 Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 305
  • Country: gb
  • http://orgams.wikidot.com/
    • OrgaMS!
    • Awards
Re: Orgams: Best assembler in my living room.
« Reply #8 on: 10:23, 05 May 20 »
Yeah I'd rather store the sequence of IO with device-wise LRU window if needed!


By the way, beta H is out. As always, the change are described here: [size=78%]http://orgams.wikidot.com/working[/size]


Among other things if fixes some QWERTY shortcuts:
  • CONTROL *  Go to next occurrence of label under/near cursor (akin to Vim's *). Life saver in my book.
  • CONTROL ;  Cycle through scope delimiter (IF/ELSE/END,  MACRO/ENDM,  or repetition bloc start/end).
  • CONTROL M  Cycle through last modified lines. The cycle algorithm should be revised. Still pretty useful.
like
0
No reactions

Offline GUNHED

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 2.836
  • Country: de
  • Reincarnation of TFM
    • FutureOS - The quickest OS for the CPC and Plus
    • Awards
Re: Orgams: Best assembler in my living room.
« Reply #9 on: 14:26, 05 May 20 »
Download completed!

In that window on your screen (link) it's written IN 0,(C) - guess that's what some call IN F,(C). Somehow they are both wrong. One could name it TST (C), but this would just lead to confusion.  :)

EDIT: I had a look at #BURN.BAS. So it doesn't modify the ROMs, and therefore any program can be used to burn the Orgams ROMs. Also it's cool that the three supporting ROMs can have ROM numbers from 1 to 127.

But let me ask you for one favour: Maybe in future the default number for Orgams (main ROM) can be 9 instead of 10? That would be great, because it wouldn't collide with FutureOS installations. 9 is the perfect number anyway.  :)
« Last Edit: 15:02, 05 May 20 by GUNHED »
like
0
No reactions
http://futureos.de --> Get the revolutionary FutureOS (Update: 2021.01.24)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/LambdaSpeak_RSX_by_TFM.zip --> Get the RSX-ROM for LambdaSpeak :-) (Updated: 2021.07.15)

Offline m_dr_m

  • 464 Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 305
  • Country: gb
  • http://orgams.wikidot.com/
    • OrgaMS!
    • Awards
Re: Orgams: Best assembler in my living room.
« Reply #10 on: 01:35, 06 May 20 »
IN 0,(C) --good-- vs IN F,(C) --bad-- vs TST (C) --ugly-- is explained in the file itself!


The main ROM can be installed from 1 to 15 already. If you are using another program to burn, the default is the the one you choose (:
like
0
No reactions

Offline m_dr_m

  • 464 Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 305
  • Country: gb
  • http://orgams.wikidot.com/
    • OrgaMS!
    • Awards
Re: Orgams: Best assembler in my living room.
« Reply #11 on: 13:13, 13 May 20 »
Beta I is out!  (c),0
like
0
No reactions

Offline GUNHED

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 2.836
  • Country: de
  • Reincarnation of TFM
    • FutureOS - The quickest OS for the CPC and Plus
    • Awards
Re: Orgams: Best assembler in my living room.
« Reply #12 on: 17:20, 13 May 20 »
Enhances #BURN a bit, press ESC-ESC to see what I mean...
like
0
No reactions
http://futureos.de --> Get the revolutionary FutureOS (Update: 2021.01.24)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/LambdaSpeak_RSX_by_TFM.zip --> Get the RSX-ROM for LambdaSpeak :-) (Updated: 2021.07.15)

Offline m_dr_m

  • 464 Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 305
  • Country: gb
  • http://orgams.wikidot.com/
    • OrgaMS!
    • Awards
Re: Orgams: Best assembler in my living room.
« Reply #13 on: 07:24, 15 May 20 »
Thank you for the enhancement!
On the other hand, it breaks the nice gray square (&0a, &1a, &1b, &0b).
I know, FutureOs uses &0a as well. But do you use |burn?
like
0
No reactions

Offline GUNHED

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 2.836
  • Country: de
  • Reincarnation of TFM
    • FutureOS - The quickest OS for the CPC and Plus
    • Awards
Re: Orgams: Best assembler in my living room.
« Reply #14 on: 16:40, 15 May 20 »
Aehm, no. Actually I do everything ROM with the ROManager (yes, also FutureOS crap, but I'm used to it).  ;) :)  Guess the appearance of the ROM slots is different.  :)


Actually, it's fascinating how quick the Orgams does still evolve, even after years. The developing team is quite on the task. Hats off!  :) :) :)
like
0
No reactions
http://futureos.de --> Get the revolutionary FutureOS (Update: 2021.01.24)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/LambdaSpeak_RSX_by_TFM.zip --> Get the RSX-ROM for LambdaSpeak :-) (Updated: 2021.07.15)

Offline m_dr_m

  • 464 Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 305
  • Country: gb
  • http://orgams.wikidot.com/
    • OrgaMS!
    • Awards
Re: Orgams: Best assembler in my living room.
« Reply #15 on: 19:19, 06 January 21 »
Orgams "Ecstatic Endeavour" Release Candidate
Orgams "Ecstatic Endeavour" Release Candidate Happy New Year!


Code: [Select]
#### New features ####


--- General ---


 * Multi-sources.
    - In the editor, use CONTROL-f1 to CONTROL-f9 to open isolated "tabs".
    - In each tab, you can load a distinct source.
    - Warning, if you load a same source in different tabs, make sure you know what you are doing. There isn't automatic synchronisation.
 * Comes with Z80 instruction set timing & advanced flag behavior (Z80.o).
 * Comes with |BURN (for X-MEM WinBond)
 * Versioned ROMs (mainly for me, to be able to have 2 distincts Orgams version in ROM).
   Also, prevent messy state if you burn a new version in different slots.


 * Power user mode (quite unnecessary now with multi source):
   Custom base bank: |org,bk (eg &ef, &e7, &df, &e7 ...)
    -> Each would be a separate instance.
    That's a temporary poor-man solution to handle several files
    or do some side tests.
    Warning, no overlap verification is made. Using 128k per
    instance (that is, &cf, &df, &ef and the default &ff) would be safe.
    You should always save sensitive work, but at last you can
    save loadings.
    Now, if one of this non-default page is corrupted, |ORGAMS won't help you.
    Instead, clear the page via Monogams (default instance via |M):
    >b&da      (or &df)
    >clearpage   (or clp)


--- Editor ---
 * Deluxe status board.
   - Soon to welcome new information.
 * CONTROL-% Cycle through IF/THEN/ELSE, MACRO/ENDM and repetition blocks.
 • CONTROL-ENTER works in comments (most of the time! bug #F4).
 * COPY-G twice to go to *end* of bloc.
 * SHIFT-CLR and SHIFT-DEL work when editing fields (filename etc).
 • Comments are shaded.
 * "repeat n" and "rend" from rasm are supported (but *not* "repeat n,cnt")


--- Assembler ---
 * New directive: LOAD"file.bin"
   * load"her" ; insert raw bytes at current pos ($$)


--- Monogams ---
 * Dedicated status bar
 * RSXs without parameters are accepted. [[[todos#ca]]]
 * Can select non-X-MEM banks. E.g. b&7cc4 for CPC's internal RAM, b&7eff for RAM outside first 512k.
 * SHIFT-CLR and SHIFT-DEL work.
 * CTRL-LEFT / RIGHT for graphical dump (gr).


--- Trace ---
 * CTRL-ESC working even from DUMP mode.
 * Don't display blank lines, for improved source coverage.
 * Show call stack (navigate with U/D). E.g., for the code:
   call aa
   ret
aa call bb
   ret
bb BRK


It will display:
   ?    <- Nevermind
   aa
   bb


#### Change ####


--- General ---
 * No more display message for BRICBRAC.ROM (|BURN).


--- Monogams ---
 * Use default screen dimensions.


#### Bug Fix ####


--- General ---
 * |burn,"file" : handle headerless files.


--- Editor ---
 • Markers correction corrected (#E3, #E4)
 * Label search (CTRL L, *, ENTER) much faster.
 * Stored line (CONTROL-DEL) still present for new source (todo #D0)
 * Line per line scrolling speed fixed (x1.4 from Demomaker's Delight).
 * COPY now really acts a dead key.
 * Shortcuts ok for EN / ES keyboard (CONTROL-; rather than CONTROL-%)


--- Trace ----
 * BRK: Exact capture of RMR (+ ROM #) when firmware is used.  (#105a)
 * BRK + Multiface 2: Exact capture of MMR (at least all 7Fxx connections. 7Cxx to 7Exx not handled). (#106)
 • Trace visu lost less often (#C0)
 • Fix clipping (#E0)


#### Regression ####


--- General ---
 • Requires 4 ROMs instead of 3.


--- Editor ---
 * Slower to compute number of lines (post loading).
 * Page navigation (Control up/down) is 30% slower.


--- Monogams ---
 • Slightly slower (access, display, clear, skip zeros in memory dump).


--- Trace ---
 * Slower display / navigation.
like
0
No reactions

Offline zhulien

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 873
  • Country: au
  • aka Vorax
    • 8bitology
    • Awards
Re: Orgams: Best assembler in my living room.
« Reply #16 on: 15:58, 15 January 21 »
do you have a feature comparison of different cpc assemblers?
like
0
No reactions

Offline Targhan

  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 1.417
  • Country: fr
    • Awards
Re: Orgams: Best assembler in my living room.
« Reply #17 on: 18:13, 15 January 21 »
It's easy: Orgams is the best (really).
like
0
No reactions
Targhan/Arkos

Arkos Tracker 2.0.1 now released! - Follow the news on Twitter!
Disark - A cross-platform Z80 disassembler/source converter
FDC Tool 1.1 - Read Amsdos files without the system

Imperial Mahjong
Orion Prime

Offline m_dr_m

  • 464 Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 305
  • Country: gb
  • http://orgams.wikidot.com/
    • OrgaMS!
    • Awards
Re: Orgams: Best assembler in my living room.
« Reply #18 on: 19:00, 15 January 21 »

Thanks Mr Ghan!

Well, Pyradev and Maxam have "includes" (coming soon in Orgams). If you don't have a ROM Board (X-Mem or else), DAMS remains the most convenient and powerful. Or maybe TurboAss!

like
0
No reactions

Offline GUNHED

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 2.836
  • Country: de
  • Reincarnation of TFM
    • FutureOS - The quickest OS for the CPC and Plus
    • Awards
Re: Orgams: Best assembler in my living room.
« Reply #19 on: 21:53, 17 January 21 »
From Maxam there is a disc version too. The best assembler IMHO (for non exp. ROM systems).
like
0
No reactions
http://futureos.de --> Get the revolutionary FutureOS (Update: 2021.01.24)
http://futureos.cpc-live.com/files/LambdaSpeak_RSX_by_TFM.zip --> Get the RSX-ROM for LambdaSpeak :-) (Updated: 2021.07.15)

Offline BSC

  • 464 Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 352
  • Country: de
  • CPC 464 aspirant
    • my (Android) mobile game
    • Awards
Re: Orgams: Best assembler in my living room.
« Reply #20 on: 00:32, 18 January 21 »
Thanks Mr Ghan!

Well, Pyradev and Maxam have "includes" (coming soon in Orgams). If you don't have a ROM Board (X-Mem or else), DAMS remains the most convenient and powerful. Or maybe TurboAss!


You forgot to mention GENA! One of the best assemblers if you like to torture yourself :D

Offline m_dr_m

  • 464 Plus
  • *****
  • Posts: 305
  • Country: gb
  • http://orgams.wikidot.com/
    • OrgaMS!
    • Awards
Re: Orgams: Best assembler in my living room.
« Reply #21 on: 17:20, 16 May 21 »
Are there Orgams users that doesn't speak French?


Trying to assess how important/necessary it is to update English documentation.
like
0
No reactions

Offline Targhan

  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 1.417
  • Country: fr
    • Awards
Re: Orgams: Best assembler in my living room.
« Reply #22 on: 20:19, 16 May 21 »
Trying to assess how important/necessary it is to update English documentation.
Another idea would be to ditch the French documentation, and only keep the English one.
like
0
No reactions
Targhan/Arkos

Arkos Tracker 2.0.1 now released! - Follow the news on Twitter!
Disark - A cross-platform Z80 disassembler/source converter
FDC Tool 1.1 - Read Amsdos files without the system

Imperial Mahjong
Orion Prime

Offline TotO

  • 6128 Plus
  • ******
  • Posts: 4.027
  • Country: fr
    • ?area=showdonations;u=4
    • Awards
Re: Orgams: Best assembler in my living room.
« Reply #23 on: 21:27, 16 May 21 »
Another idea would be to ditch the French documentation, and only keep the English one.
Je suggère l'inverse.
like
0
No reactions
"You make one mistake in your life and the internet will never let you live it down" (Keith Goodyer)

Offline Targhan

  • Supporter
  • 6128 Plus
  • *
  • Posts: 1.417
  • Country: fr
    • Awards
Re: Orgams: Best assembler in my living room.
« Reply #24 on: 21:28, 16 May 21 »
Well, believe it or not, but the Arkos Tracker doc is in English only, and I never had any complaint from French people (and yes, some are using it).
like
0
No reactions
Targhan/Arkos

Arkos Tracker 2.0.1 now released! - Follow the news on Twitter!
Disark - A cross-platform Z80 disassembler/source converter
FDC Tool 1.1 - Read Amsdos files without the system

Imperial Mahjong
Orion Prime