Author Topic: what good are the plus features?  (Read 4822 times)

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Offline ukmarkh

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Re: what good are the plus features?
« Reply #25 on: 01:03, 18 June 13 »
I hope one day, we all get to see the true power of the Plus model.

Offline TotO

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Re: what good are the plus features?
« Reply #26 on: 09:57, 18 June 13 »
Well, if you want I can create a 128KB+ category, which f.e. contains RDOS, Discology and so on... but maybe that would be too much.
I know that Discology can use DK'Tronics up to 256K and Vortex up to 512K.
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Offline arnoldemu

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Re: what good are the plus features?
« Reply #27 on: 11:18, 18 June 13 »
I hope one day, we all get to see the true power of the Plus model.
I have 2 games where development has been paused, both will be finished and both use plus features.

I will e-mail some people for help when I am ready to finish them.
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Offline TFM

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Re: what good are the plus features?
« Reply #28 on: 22:14, 18 June 13 »
I know that Discology can use DK'Tronics up to 256K and Vortex up to 512K.
Vortex is imcompatibel to all standard RAM expansions. Discology uses around 300 KB of RAM, because it doesn't not need more for a 3" disc. You can check that on any emulator. On real hardware it definitely works with the Dobbertin and the Inicron RAM expansions (also with the SF2).
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Offline TotO

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Re: what good are the plus features?
« Reply #29 on: 22:22, 18 June 13 »
Vortex is imcompatibel to all standard RAM expansions. Discology uses around 300 KB of RAM, because it doesn't not need more for a 3" disc. You can check that on any emulator. On real hardware it definitely works with the Dobbertin and the Inicron RAM expansions (also with the SF2).
The Discology technical note "said" to support the full memory of the DK'Tronics (64 to 256K), Vortex (64 to 512K) and Silicon Disc (256K) on 464 and 664.
It "said" too that Discology allow to use 3"1/2 and 5"1/4 40/80 tracks simple and double side discs.
So, I think that 512K is not useless here... (sure, I have tested nothing)

http://www.cpcwiki.eu/imgs/1/13/Discology_Notice_Technique_Version_5.pdf
« Last Edit: 22:41, 18 June 13 by TotO »
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Offline mr_lou

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Re: what good are the plus features?
« Reply #30 on: 07:06, 19 June 13 »
Any games that makes a difference between the non plus and the plus versions? For what I have seen so far... most of them are the same even Pang compared to Zapt'n'Balls and Prehistorik. But it is quite understandable. How would be the games market actually if there are two different versions of the PS3? One with 128MB of ram and another with 512? Not many I guess... Only storage room...

There is no difference between the CPC and CPC+ in regards of memory.

I'm no expert, but as far as I've understood, the differences are:
  • CPC+ has hardware sprites (like the Commodore 64), while the CPC have to settle for software rendering of sprites. This means that it should theoretically be much easier creating fluent movement on the CPC+
  • CPC+ has DMA stuff, which means the CPU doesn't have to deal with music-playback as much as the CPC does. So you'd have more CPU for actual game processing.
  • CPC+ has 4096 colors where the CPC only has 27
So the biggest "pain" for developers (I guess) is to change their code to use hardware sprites instead of software rendering, while the biggest "pain" for graphics artists would be to re-do all of their graphics. I can certainly understand why they don't feel like doing that, especially considering that the CPC version of the game runs just fine on the CPC+ too. The only one who has it easy is the musician, who doesn't have to create another version of his tracks.

I'd love to see more CPC+ games though.

Offline TFM

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Re: what good are the plus features?
« Reply #31 on: 20:51, 21 June 13 »
Thank's for the information  :)
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Offline mr_lou

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Re: what good are the plus features?
« Reply #32 on: 21:31, 21 June 13 »
Thank's for the information  :)

I wrote that to pacomix, who expressed a lack of knowledge.

No need to be a jerk just because you know all there is to know yourself. ;-)

Offline TFM

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Re: what good are the plus features?
« Reply #33 on: 21:34, 21 June 13 »
I wrote that to pacomix, who expressed a lack of knowledge.

No need to be a jerk just because you know all there is to know yourself. ;-)
And I posted to another topic! Don't know why it appeared here! You better take that Jerk back, or I make a smiting game about you  :laugh:
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Offline mr_lou

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Re: what good are the plus features?
« Reply #34 on: 21:35, 21 June 13 »
Your PC is obviously drunk then.

Don't run Windows.

Offline TFM

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Re: what good are the plus features?
« Reply #35 on: 21:36, 21 June 13 »
It's IE !!! That's even worse - @work btw.... However you explanation was well.
 
But my comment was going to TotO in a complete other section of the forum...
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Offline Executioner

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Re: what good are the plus features?
« Reply #36 on: 05:24, 18 October 13 »
So can anyone imagine a game using all the plus features that could not run on the CPC or at the same speed?

Actually, Frogger on the Plus uses most of the Plus features: hardware sprites, hardware soft-scroll, palette, DMA sound and raster interrupts.

Offline TFM

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Re: what good are the plus features?
« Reply #37 on: 20:17, 18 October 13 »
Oh really? You use DMA sound? Isnt't that a big waste using a lot of RAM?

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Offline redbox

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Re: what good are the plus features?
« Reply #38 on: 22:55, 18 October 13 »
Oh really? You use DMA sound? Isnt't that a big waste using a lot of RAM?

Not it you know how to do it properly.

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Offline andycadley

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Re: what good are the plus features?
« Reply #39 on: 23:13, 18 October 13 »
Anyone in any doubt of whether the Plus can beat the ordinary CPC should just run Robocop 2. It's a very flawed game in many, many ways but it is one of the better demos of what the Plus could do. There is nothing on the ordinary CPCs which even comes close to being as smooth or as pretty.

Offline AMSDOS

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Re: what good are the plus features?
« Reply #40 on: 23:26, 18 October 13 »
Anyone in any doubt of whether the Plus can beat the ordinary CPC should just run Robocop 2. It's a very flawed game in many, many ways but it is one of the better demos of what the Plus could do. There is nothing on the ordinary CPCs which even comes close to being as smooth or as pretty.

That maybe true, though from a programming perspective I have no way of testing a routine on a real Plus because Amstrad refused to ship any to Australia - and emulators just don't cut the dice. :(
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Offline Bryce

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Re: what good are the plus features?
« Reply #41 on: 23:33, 18 October 13 »
They are more difficult to find in Australia, but there are many European sellers that are willing to ship there. But they're not particularly cheap here either :D

Here's one that was on offer recently: http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?t=51014
Gone already, but they do pop up quite regularly.

In fact, contact Kris (he's sold three in the last few weeks) and he could probably organise one for you. He's a member here too as far as I know.

Bryce.
« Last Edit: 23:40, 18 October 13 by Bryce »

Offline TFM

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Re: what good are the plus features?
« Reply #42 on: 23:51, 18 October 13 »
Anyone in any doubt of whether the Plus can beat the ordinary CPC should just run Robocop 2. It's a very flawed game in many, many ways but it is one of the better demos of what the Plus could do. There is nothing on the ordinary CPCs which even comes close to being as smooth or as pretty.


Time for you to take a look at my Giana Sisters WIP.  ;) 


However I agree that the Plus is superior to the CPC old generation, because it just got some more features, but doesn't lack the old ones. [nb]Except some fancy CRTC modes, which never got used in games anyway.[/nb]
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Offline AMSDOS

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Re: what good are the plus features?
« Reply #43 on: 23:54, 18 October 13 »
They are more difficult to find in Australia, but there are many European sellers that are willing to ship there. But they're not particularly cheap here either :D

Here's one that was on offer recently: http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?t=51014
Gone already, but they do pop up quite regularly.

In fact, contact Kris (he's sold three in the last few weeks) and he could probably organise one for you. He's a member here too as far as I know.

Bryce.

I found a Plus Monitor on eBay, though the price seemed to be a bit high at around $80 US, though at the moment the Aust Currency is almost on Par for the Greenback. I would be interested in a working machine which would reflect on the price.
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Offline Bryce

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Re: what good are the plus features?
« Reply #44 on: 00:06, 19 October 13 »
A CM14 for $80?? That is high, you'll get one for a quarter of that usually.

A recent sale (from Kris too): http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?t=51408&highlight=cm14
Unfortunately the postage will probably be a killer from the US too.

Bryce.
« Last Edit: 00:10, 19 October 13 by Bryce »

Offline Executioner

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Re: what good are the plus features?
« Reply #45 on: 02:59, 19 October 13 »
Oh really? You use DMA sound? Isnt't that a big waste using a lot of RAM?

Not really.. The way it works is to prepare a DMA buffer for a single frame at a time. All it has to do is write all the register changes for the frame into a buffer rather than doing all that nasty IN/OUT stuff with the PPI.

Offline AMSDOS

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Re: what good are the plus features?
« Reply #46 on: 04:55, 19 October 13 »
A CM14 for $80?? That is high, you'll get one for a quarter of that usually.

A recent sale (from Kris too): http://www.amibay.com/showthread.php?t=51408&highlight=cm14
Unfortunately the postage will probably be a killer from the US too.

Bryce.

Probably, the only other dilemma I'd have if I got a Plus Machine, would be how much I would be using it, I'd be told to get rid of my 6128 which is also a nice machine.  :D
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Offline TFM

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Re: what good are the plus features?
« Reply #47 on: 21:50, 19 October 13 »
Not really.. The way it works is to prepare a DMA buffer for a single frame at a time. All it has to do is write all the register changes for the frame into a buffer rather than doing all that nasty IN/OUT stuff with the PPI.


Ah understood. Instead of feeding the PSG, you feed the DMA. Well, I though you may have the whole song / sounds in big copper program. But just feeding the DMA in time is a great idea. Saves time and space.
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Offline TFM

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Re: what good are the plus features?
« Reply #48 on: 21:52, 19 October 13 »
Probably, the only other dilemma I'd have if I got a Plus Machine, would be how much I would be using it, I'd be told to get rid of my 6128 which is also a nice machine.  :D


A no! A Plus and the classic 6128 is the perfect combination  :) :) :)
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Offline Bryce

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Re: what good are the plus features?
« Reply #49 on: 21:55, 19 October 13 »
My two most used machines are my 6128 and 6128+, I like to swap every few days. Although now that I have a 664, the 6128 is starting to be used less.

Bryce.