Best Key Controls for Two players

[keith56]

Could I ask for reccomendations of good key choices for my next Chibi Akumas game.

The new game uses the same control buttons as the last one  so
Up - Down - Left - Right for movement
and
FireLeft and FireRight for directional fire, plus a Smartbomb fire button - and one pause button

The new game supports Two players, so I need twice as many buttons!

I was thinking of Cursors + F7, F8, F9 for player ones movement and firing and something like WSAD + NM[space] for player 2's movement

I only need one pause button, so P would seem good!

The game has a redefine keys options, but I need some built in defaults - I only check the keys I expect to work, so if keyboard clash causes an unchecked key to fire it doesn't matter, but of course the keys the player uses must not misfire, as it will cause the game to be even harder!

Any suggestions on good key layouts?

[arnoldemu]

Keyboard clash is a problem. Playing Gauntlet with 2 players (even one on joystick) was bad.

Try and avoid it if you can it will make a big difference.

There is a pattern to how the keyboard clash works.

f.	f0	Ctrl	> ,	< .	Space	V	X	Z	Del
6	Enter	f2	` \	? /	M	N	B	C	Caps Lock	Unused
5	f3	f1	Shift	* :	K	J	F / Joy 1 Fire 1	D	A	Joy 0 Fire 1
4	f6	f5	f4	+ ;	L	H	G / Joy 1 Fire 2	S	Tab	Joy 0 Fire 2
3	f9	f8	} ]	P	I	Y	T / Joy 1 Right	W	Q	Joy 0 Right
2	Cursor Down	f7	Return	| @	O	U	R / Joy 1 Left	E	Esc	Joy 0 Left
1	Cursor Right	Copy	{ [	= -	) 9	' 7	% 5 / Joy 1 Down	# 3	" 2	Joy 0 Down
0	Cursor Up	Cursor Left	Clr	£ ^	_ 0	( 8	& 6 / Joy 1 Up	$ 4	! 1	Joy 0 Up

It works in rectangles. If I press Return U and 8, Clr is also pressed. So work out a combination where it doesn't matter too much.

[keith56]

Do all the CPC's 'CLASH' in the same way? or do some have worse functionality than others?

I mean, did things get better in the PLUS generation, or like losing fire 3 did they get worse later?

[arnoldemu]

Do all the CPC's 'CLASH' in the same way? or do some have worse functionality than others?

I mean, did things get better in the PLUS generation, or like losing fire 3 did they get worse later?

Plus is better. No clash between joysticks or joystick and keyboard, but yes clash if both players use keyboard.

Generally CPCs are the same, clash between joysticks, joystick and keyboard and both players on keyboard.
Although my 664 doesn't seem to suffer so badly.

Please support multiplay, that doesn't have clash.

[keith56]

I don't have a Multiplay to test with but I see it's supported by ArnoldEmu so I will try and get it working if I can.

[sigh]

I may be wrong, but I remember hearing that the clash was sorted out on the CPC 6128.

[keith56]

According to the wiki at least one 664 doesn't clash
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Keyboard_Versions

but there's a video of Clashing on the 6128


So maybe certain 'generations' have the problem and others don't

I think I need a reasonably playable non-clashing set (or as close as possible!) - and the user can redefine to suit their own systems.

[Axelay]

This page gives a good description of how the clash works.


I think with 7 keys per player you could be pushing to have two players work well on keyboard.  Perhaps reducing a key by having the smart bomb activate with both left and right fire pushed simultaneously could help?

[arnoldemu]

This page gives a good description of how the clash works.


I think with 7 keys per player you could be pushing to have two players work well on keyboard.  Perhaps reducing a key by having the smart bomb activate with both left and right fire pushed simultaneously could help?

If one player is joystick then you are probably limited to any line, but only those in bit 7 and 6. If you make it only 1 fire button then that opens up more keys.

So potentially:

Joystick 0 + z,x,n,j,k (left, right down, up and fire). That should work without clash.
I would need to confirm.

2 player on keyboard:

cursors,enter + q,a,j,k,space

again I would need to confirm.

[keith56]

Both fires together can't be used for smartbomb, as I'm using that for something else - the players can use the same key for smartbomb though - it works just fine.

It seems winape doesn't emulate Keyclash, so I will do some testing on Arnold and my 6128 to find a 'least worst' set of keys

Thanks for the explainations of Keyclash, I think I understand it now!

[keith56]

Well it looks like I should be able to get hold of a Multiplay, so support for that will be guaranteed in the final game!

after looking over the keymap, and scratching my head - followed by some Arnold testing I'm Looking at the keysets below, if I'm understanding the keyclash right, they should be ok.

Player 1
UDLR: Cursors
Fire LR: I O
SmartBomb: Return

Player 2:
UDLR:WSAD
FireLR: VB
SmartBomb: Space

Pause: P
----------------------------
And for players with one 2 button joystick I will reccomend:
Player 1
UDLR: Joystick
Fire LR: Fire1+2
SmartBomb: F9

Player 2:
UDLR: ZXCS
FireLR: JK
SmartBomb: Space

Pause P

[mr_lou]

I know it's probably important for you to support keyboard, but I just gotta throw this in:
Add support for normal 2-way splitter so you can use 2 joysticks. A proper splitter (with diodes) shouldn't give you any trouble.
Maybe also consider adding support for the Multiplay. 

[keith56]

Add support for normal 2-way splitter so you can use 2 joysticks. A proper splitter (with diodes) shouldn't give you any trouble.
Maybe also consider adding support for the Multiplay. 

You mean a using the regular Joystick port? The game has a  'refefine' function for key/joy definition - so you can set your controls to anything you want! - I'm just working our some good defaults and suggested settings for single joystick users so people don't pick the most clashy ones possible - and then blame the game!

Didn't know that you could fix it with diodes! I will put that as a suggestion on the website!

as I said above, I should be able to get my hands on a multiplay - and if I do, the game will definately support it.