Author Topic: What about a new 'commercial' game for GX/Plus range ?  (Read 3524 times)

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Offline Phantomz

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Re: What about a new 'commercial' game for GX/Plus range ?
« Reply #25 on: 16:16, 22 April 18 »
Nope, there is no protection, i just used my own FDC code because it's faster and smaller.Chany hacked the game and made a file version, maybe you can try with this version (btw i don't think the game would fit in a 512K cart)

@fano Thanks for the information, I thought it was protected.  :doh:

The FDC still stops it being friendly with nocart.  :(

I didn't realise there was a hacked version by Chany, have you any idea where it might be possible to download it from?

Offline fano

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Re: What about a new 'commercial' game for GX/Plus range ?
« Reply #26 on: 17:31, 22 April 18 »
@fano Thanks for the information, I thought it was protected.  :doh:

The FDC still stops it being friendly with nocart.  :(

I didn't realise there was a hacked version by Chany, have you any idea where it might be possible to download it from?
You may try there as we asked some sites to avoid this version because it slaughtered our work : http://cpccrackers.free.fr/Downloads/Chany/RType2012_Chany.rar
« Last Edit: 17:51, 22 April 18 by fano »
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Offline Phantomz

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Re: What about a new 'commercial' game for GX/Plus range ?
« Reply #27 on: 18:00, 22 April 18 »
You may try there as we asked some sites to avoid this version because it slaughtered our work : http://cpccrackers.free.fr/Downloads/Chany/RType2012_Chany.rar

@fano

Thank you for the link  :) even though as you said " it slaughtered our work "  :(

There are to many files on the disks to use with nocart, maybe someone might be able to make it run from cart, I'm not sure.

Do you know if your original or this hacked version work on the M4 Board ?

Offline fano

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Re: What about a new 'commercial' game for GX/Plus range ?
« Reply #28 on: 21:32, 22 April 18 »
@fano

Thank you for the link  :) even though as you said " it slaughtered our work "  :(

There are to many files on the disks to use with nocart, maybe someone might be able to make it run from cart, I'm not sure.

Do you know if your original or this hacked version work on the M4 Board ?
You can remove some files i think and keep only one level to test.I don't know at all but original should work on any expansion RAM that works like original CPC.
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Offline keith56

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Re: What about a new 'commercial' game for GX/Plus range ?
« Reply #29 on: 06:08, 23 April 18 »
Stupid question, but can two versions of the same game not be put on the cart? Like a 64k and a 128k version of the game? Might be worth considering though.

Yes it's perfectly doable, but everything extra you support means you have to 'up your game' in terms of planning and design, and means more testing and debugging...
The new ChibiAkumas has currently taken me 350 hours of development time (I've been running a timer)... at the moment, the last six weeks has just been testing and debugging... and much of the reason it's so hard is I'm testing on ZX+3 (DSK), ZX+2 (TRD), MSX2, MSX+V9990, CPC6128+,CPC6128,464+ and 464... it's really tough.

Say I had supported GX4000 and CPR too.. and it added just 10% to the development time (probably a realistic minimum)... we'll that's another 35 work hours, and the problem is, there's a breaking point - take on too much and you'll never complete the project - and end up with nothing to show for it...  I'm pretty sure that's the main reason so few new games support CPC+ or 64k... it's just narrowing your target platform to a comfortable minimum... and when the games are being made for fun, who can blame the developers for that?
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Offline fano

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Re: What about a new 'commercial' game for GX/Plus range ?
« Reply #30 on: 14:17, 08 May 18 »
What will be the cost of a real cartridge, since an additionnal chip is needed to emulate the ACID chip protection? Plus the box, plus the eeprom, ...
Sorry i didn't reply you before, i must say i don't actually have a precise idea, it's not possible to get original GX game boxes but a cardboard boxe is not that expensive, 512K eprom is not that expensive too, maybe Gerald could light us about ACID replacement cost.The bigger overcost would be sadly the cartrige plastic case :/ (when looking audience, the 3D printed case is the best option, have to see to cost and quality we can have with this)


Btw, still 9 days to finish the poll and i must say i was expecting more potential  ::)  (this is not the whole GX/Plus potential but that give an idea)
« Last Edit: 14:27, 08 May 18 by fano »
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Offline Skunkfish

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Re: What about a new 'commercial' game for GX/Plus range ?
« Reply #31 on: 20:08, 08 May 18 »
SD card option is interesting. I guess this would pop straight in the C4CPC and make it work like a regular cart? (I.e. instaboot)


Out of curiosity, how many C4CPC's are out there now?

Offline fano

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Re: What about a new 'commercial' game for GX/Plus range ?
« Reply #32 on: 23:06, 08 May 18 »
SD card option is interesting. I guess this would pop straight in the C4CPC and make it work like a regular cart? (I.e. instaboot)
Yep, there is not difficult as you can already do this with C4CPC  ;)
About how many C4CPC, i think only Gerald knows.
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Offline dragon

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Re: What about a new 'commercial' game for GX/Plus range ?
« Reply #33 on: 04:10, 09 May 18 »
I not sure if a normal sd fit, (all microsd come with adapter now) . But maybe as game case you can use ps vita game cases. They are cheap and easy to find new. In case of sd card use.

Offline fano

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Re: What about a new 'commercial' game for GX/Plus range ?
« Reply #34 on: 05:10, 09 May 18 »
I not sure if a normal sd fit, (all microsd come with adapter now) . But maybe as game case you can use ps vita game cases. They are cheap and easy to find new. In case of sd card use.
Normal SD doesn't fit in C4CPC but using a SD adaptateur to protect µSD card seems a good idea ;)
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Offline GOB

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Re: What about a new 'commercial' game for GX/Plus range ?
« Reply #35 on: 13:21, 10 May 18 »
For me Physical cartrige 40-50€ + manual.
I hate dematerialised format and object is also important than game.
A good manual is welcome.

Offline Shining

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Re: What about a new 'commercial' game for GX/Plus range ?
« Reply #36 on: 10:14, 12 May 18 »

Making a pcb would be relatively cheap, the expensive part would be making the case and the box.  I don't know the actual costs but low volumes would probably make it prohibitive.


Spoke with bryce about this some time ago. Using asic-emulator and low volume we came to a pcb-price of about 18-20€ including 512kB EPROM. I've a resin-solution for casing (copy from original) made from a model constructor pricing about 10 €. So you only pay about 30 € for the hardware.
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Offline chinnyhill10

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Re: What about a new 'commercial' game for GX/Plus range ?
« Reply #37 on: 10:42, 12 May 18 »
[size=78%] I've a resin-solution for casing (copy from original) made from a model constructor pricing about 10 €. So you only pay about 30 € for the hardware.[/size]


Casing is a big expense. I know someone who has had injection moulds made for VIC 20 carts and while horrifically expensive to do, once the costs are covered the cost per unit is small. But you have to have enough of a user base to justify it and you'll never be able to do that on the GX4000.
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Offline fano

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Re: What about a new 'commercial' game for GX/Plus range ?
« Reply #38 on: 12:06, 12 May 18 »

Spoke with bryce about this some time ago. Using asic-emulator and low volume we came to a pcb-price of about 18-20€ including 512kB EPROM. I've a resin-solution for casing (copy from original) made from a model constructor pricing about 10 €. So you only pay about 30 € for the hardware.
Interesting, add game, manual and box and we are at 50€, i'd be interested to see resin case quality.
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Offline Widukind

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Re: What about a new 'commercial' game for GX/Plus range ?
« Reply #39 on: 12:41, 15 June 18 »
After discussion here : http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/gx4000-article-from-the-pixel-empire/ , i was wondering who would be interested for a new commercial game for GX 4000 / Plus range.

That's an interesting thread. I really enjoyed reading it. Whilst I never owned a CPC+/GX4000, just a normal CPC, I recently discovered the CPC+ features and really love them.

Do we have some numbers concerning the CPC+ user base? For example on Wikipedia we read that Amstrad sold only 15,000 GX4000 units. But what about the CPC+ (464+ and 6128+) ?

Offline amijim

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Re: What about a new 'commercial' game for GX/Plus range ?
« Reply #40 on: 21:53, 18 June 18 »
Hello there , i am 35 years old and in my childhood i had an 6128 plus bought new by my father as a present for me for..... ,actually for no reason and this was the best lesson in my life but this is another story.Since then i had a lot yet i lost interest in all games except the one i used to play as a child in commodore 64 ,amstrad 6128plus and amiga 1200.Today i have a son of 3 years old and i guess my generation loves to spend more time with the children and there is no better way for than playing and learning and here comes your question.As a father i spend a lot for my child and i could happily spend 20 euros every 3-4 months for a game in my beloved retro home computer.I guess i am not the only one but Xifos game is a remarkable outcome.I could easily pay 20 euros for his game in cluding 4mhz games.But they have to be plus games because the lagging in the cpc original scrolling pause i think would be problematic for the your generations.For us it is okey , we are all used to it but the new generations i think not.I vote for digital c4cpc or dsk edition.Payment should be a thing of trust and understanding.The key question is how much time Xifo spend on his game?If it is half a year programming days he should get at least half a years half time salary.I guess 4000euros for every game.We should be at least 200 patriots paying 20 euros for him to invest his time on us.I think it really worth it.We are thousands out there who could spend 20 euros for a nice game.
« Last Edit: 09:34, 19 June 18 by amijim »

Offline fano

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Re: What about a new 'commercial' game for GX/Plus range ?
« Reply #41 on: 22:22, 19 June 18 »
Hello there , i am 35 years old and in my childhood i had an 6128 plus bought new by my father as a present for me for..... ,actually for no reason and this was the best lesson in my life but this is another story.Since then i had a lot yet i lost interest in all games except the one i used to play as a child in commodore 64 ,amstrad 6128plus and amiga 1200.Today i have a son of 3 years old and i guess my generation loves to spend more time with the children and there is no better way for than playing and learning and here comes your question.As a father i spend a lot for my child and i could happily spend 20 euros every 3-4 months for a game in my beloved retro home computer.I guess i am not the only one but Xifos game is a remarkable outcome.I could easily pay 20 euros for his game in cluding 4mhz games.But they have to be plus games because the lagging in the cpc original scrolling pause i think would be problematic for the your generations.For us it is okey , we are all used to it but the new generations i think not.I vote for digital c4cpc or dsk edition.Payment should be a thing of trust and understanding.The key question is how much time Xifo spend on his game?If it is half a year programming days he should get at least half a years half time salary.I guess 4000euros for every game.We should be at least 200 patriots paying 20 euros for him to invest his time on us.I think it really worth it.We are thousands out there who could spend 20 euros for a nice game.
That was the goal my friend, to have an idea about how many people would be interested to reward Plus/GX dev for making a (QUALITY) game and to have an idea about audience choices.I must say the result is a bit disapointing...
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Offline Xyphoe

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Re: What about a new 'commercial' game for GX/Plus range ?
« Reply #42 on: 23:03, 19 June 18 »
That was the goal my friend, to have an idea about how many people would be interested to reward Plus/GX dev for making a (QUALITY) game and to have an idea about audience choices.I must say the result is a bit disapointing...
Oops. I'm a huge GX4000 fanboy and I missed this thread and poll! See? Maybe a lot of people weren't aware and perhaps spend more time on Twitter etc than forums these days. I don't know.
But I'm 100% interested, and would pay up to £50 for a proper physical release.

The choice of project though is key to it's success (duh!), and the best chance of success is 'remaking' an existing famous game - most likely one that didn't appear on the Amstrad or the conversion was poor. You saw how massively popular the R-Type remake was? I'm still staggered by the response I can see in terms of views and comments on the videos on my channel - it far exceeds any other 'homebrew' Amstrad project by a considerable margin. (And so yes - I can help to promote and hype the project like I did before with R-Type with trailers and teaser videos, etc!). That Super Mario Bros demo I put a video up of a few months got a huge amount of views very quickly too.... which leads me to some suggestions....
#Super Mario Bros

I think there's been two attempts and work in progress already, not sure how far these are. But maybe you could turn yours into Super ROLAND Bros, using the various Roland sprites for different power-up states - and go off and make your own game design with a homage to the original Super Mario? I'd like to see this on the Plus/GX4000 though with the available hardware sprites / scrolling for a smooth fast experience.

#Outrun
Someone's already mentioned it above. We desperately need a decent version of this!!
#Street Fighter II
Already in the works and quite far in I hear though.I think they are the 'top 3' on anyones wish list.However if you want to make your own game from scratch - because you'd be more passionate about it - go for it! Although as I said above, it wouldn't generate as much interest.

Offline Widukind

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Re: What about a new 'commercial' game for GX/Plus range ?
« Reply #43 on: 23:15, 19 June 18 »
That was the goal my friend, to have an idea about how many people would be interested to reward Plus/GX dev for making a (QUALITY) game and to have an idea about audience choices.I must say the result is a bit disapointing...
Seeing how few units of the GX4000 have been sold (only 15,000) and probably the CPC+ units were in a similar low magnitude (I'd still be interested in hard numbers concerning the sold CPC+ units), it's probably a financial risk today to produce a commercial CPC+ only game (including GX4000).

What could be done, would be a decent game which comes in a standard version for standard CPCs and in a parallel version for the CPC+/GX4000 using the extra plus features. The developers would use the same code but different "render paths" (hehe). A bit like with Atari ST and its STE.

This however is challenging technically and effort-wise, and so for example has unfortunately hardly be done for the STE.
 

Offline tjohnson

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Re: What about a new 'commercial' game for GX/Plus range ?
« Reply #44 on: 23:58, 19 June 18 »
Yeah i suspect physical releases of gx4000 would have limited up take, i wonder how many active users for them.   They come up regularly on eBay and no shortage of buyers but don't make amazing money, still more than the 10 or 20 quid that dixons sold them at when it flopped, i pity the idiots that spent £99 on one..... Sob

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Offline keith56

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Re: What about a new 'commercial' game for GX/Plus range ?
« Reply #45 on: 02:33, 20 June 18 »
The choice of project though is key to it's success (duh!), and the best chance of success is 'remaking' an existing famous game - most likely one that didn't appear on the Amstrad or the conversion was poor.
You are 100% right, but as a developer I wouldn't persue a remake, unless I had authorization from the original developer... as the project could get killed by a lawsuit at the last minute... especially if you're planning to profit from it (I don't think TotO made any money selling his game at $15).. and all the time you'd spent would be for nothing.

What could be done, would be a decent game which comes in a standard version for standard CPCs and in a parallel version for the CPC+/GX4000 using the extra plus features. The developers would use the same code but different "render paths" (hehe). A bit like with Atari ST and its STE.
ChibiAkumas does this to some extent, the original game was CPC only when it was 90% complete, and the CPC+ sprites were added at the last minute... The new version added CPC+ color palette too... I plan to do a similar thing for future games too.. release with limited CPC+ support (cpc+ palette but no sprites).. then release an enhanced version with sprites if the feedback is good... the reason for this is the CPC sprite code is the same for CPC/MSX/ZX etc... but the CPC+ code has to work with the hardware limits, so it's all custom code.
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Offline kawickboy

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Re: What about a new 'commercial' game for GX/Plus range ?
« Reply #46 on: 15:46, 20 June 18 »
Quote from: fano
That was the goal my friend, to have an idea about how many people would be interested to reward Plus/GX dev for making a (QUALITY) game and to have an idea about audience choices.I must say the result is a bit disapointing...


Don't underestimate the retrogaming general scene. Yes, the inquiry in this website didn't get many answers but remember r-type128, orion prime for exemple and recently the ghost'n'goblins remake. Thoses games are now famous in thoses communities. Many retrogaming webstes and boards mentioned them. You and Toto were invited to retrogaming meetings to show your work. In the french community Atlantis is now well-known for his Athanor saga.


GX4000 is well-collected now. In fact, too many people still believe that copter271 and panza cost 300€ due to 2 or 3 strange spanish auctions 15 years ago. But even common games like batman or klax and other cheap conversions are sought after.

Offline Widukind

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Re: What about a new 'commercial' game for GX/Plus range ?
« Reply #47 on: 18:10, 20 June 18 »
Don't underestimate the retrogaming general scene.
Yes indeed.

Does anybody know how the number of CPC retro users compares to the number of C64 retro users, very roughly ?
I suppose that because the C64 was the most sold home-computer, there's also one of the largest retro user base with the C64. Please correct me if I am wrong.

That said, there seems to be a very active CPC retro user base, too.

Now for example there's a nice C64 retro game "Sam's Journey", and its authors wrote on their website in March 2018 :
Quote
From its release on Christmas Eve 2017 until the end of March 2018, our C64 platformer Sam's Journey has sold an incredible 1250 units!

1,250 units in the starting three months, well that's not bad, isn't it? (Digital download version for 20 €, and boxed edition for 45 €.)

In any case a nice CPC retro game version with an additional improved CPC+/Gx4000 version is something I'd love to do one day.
« Last Edit: 18:14, 20 June 18 by Widukind »

Offline andycadley

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Re: What about a new 'commercial' game for GX/Plus range ?
« Reply #48 on: 20:38, 20 June 18 »
Seeing how few units of the GX4000 have been sold (only 15,000) and probably the CPC+ units were in a similar low magnitude (I'd still be interested in hard numbers concerning the sold CPC+ units), it's probably a financial risk today to produce a commercial CPC+ only game (including GX4000).

I don't really get that argument, the market at this point is so tiny that making a standard CPC game isn't going to give you a significantly larger user base than a Plus title.


What could be done, would be a decent game which comes in a standard version for standard CPCs and in a parallel version for the CPC+/GX4000 using the extra plus features. The developers would use the same code but different "render paths" (hehe). A bit like with Atari ST and its STE.
That really, really cripples what you can do though. If you look at perhaps the biggest example, Prehistorik 2, there is no way it would have had to have that jerky push scrolling if it wasn't for the need to be able to work on a standard CPC.
« Last Edit: 20:40, 20 June 18 by andycadley »

Offline Captain Past

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Re: What about a new 'commercial' game for GX/Plus range ?
« Reply #49 on: 22:29, 20 June 18 »

I'm definitely interested in new GX4000 games, and I would happily pay for a good quality commercial release.
In all honesty, as someone who didn't grow up with an Amstrad CPC and who doesn't feel particularly nostalgic for that system, mainly because of the new Ghost'n'Goblins port, right now I find the GX4000 actually more interesting when it comes to homebrew than the classic CPC range, simply because it is more suited for the games that I like to play. Plus I want to see what more can be achieved on that console.
Now, that of course doesn't mean that I don't appreciate a lot of the new games for the classic CPC computers, and I'm glad that with poly.play there finally is a publisher who is selling nice boxed new CPC games (on disk). But I have to agree with andycadley: when creating a new game, supporting classic CPC computers and the Plus range at the same time is like shooting yourself in both feet, at least when creating games that could benefit from having hardware sprites.
Poly.play would also be the address to point questions to about how many copies of new CPC games can be sold nowadays.

Now for example there's a nice C64 retro game "Sam's Journey", and its authors wrote on their website in March 2018 :
1,250 units in the starting three months, well that's not bad, isn't it?
Even though the C64 community is of course bigger, those 1250 units of Sam's Journey are in no way representive of how many copies of new C64 can be sold. The last numbers I've read for the best selling new games are actually 1000 units lower, and games of average popularity probably sell like a 100-200 copies (including the digital download sales which are usually very cheap).
I imagine something like 50 copies could maybe be sold of a new GX4000 game, which probably is about as many as a new CPC game ond disk/tape is selling (I'm really just guessing here). So making money can not be a factor for creating new games for these formats anyway. But hopefully there are still some people like Xifos who do it for the fun and fame :)