ACID chip inside

Started by MacDeath, 15:52, 23 October 09

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Gryzor

Oooh! Neato! but more expensive, probably?

spybro

a black cartridge looks like this








Gryzor

Grrrrr I can't access Imageshack at work... what's wrong with the forum's attachments? :)

Ygdrazil

Hmmm. I would prefere transparent then  ;D

Quote from: spybro on 14:01, 01 October 10
a black cartridge looks like this





spybro

there you go gryzor ;)

arnoldemu

Quote from: Ygdrazil on 14:13, 01 October 10
Hmmm. I would prefere transparent then  ;D
me too.

MacDeath comes in, teases us with "the cpc+ cart is similar to Atari carts", and then doesn't come back to give more details.
Damn.
My games. My Games
My website with coding examples: Unofficial Amstrad WWW Resource

spybro

#331
the problem with the transparent ones is that if you dont use high quality plastic it wears off rapidly


Can i ask a question to the makers of the project?


have you finilized the specs?
do you have a timetable for the project?

spybro

Quote from: arnoldemu on 14:23, 01 October 10
me too.

MacDeath comes in, teases us with "the cpc+ cart is similar to Atari carts", and then doesn't come back to give more details.
Damn.


The housing is very similar but certain amendments needed
take a look at here
http://www.pixelspast.com/homebrew/images/2600_housing_front.jpg
http://www.pixelspast.com/homebrew/images/2600_housing_back.jpg

Gryzor


Bryce

#334
Here's what the transparent ones could look like. If decent hard plastic is used, then it should stay looking good for years (assuming you don't store it in a box full of sand / blades / assorted scratchy things).

These are made for c64, but whatever company made them, could make the same for CPC for a reasonable price if the quantities are high enough. These are sold for about €4.50 after the reseller has made a profit, so the production price can't be all that bad.

Bryce.

Edit: you could even add some LEDs and make it glow :)

arnoldemu

Quote from: Bryce on 15:09, 01 October 10
Here's what the transparent ones could look like. If decent hard plastic is used, then it should stay looking good for years (assuming you don't store it in a box full of sand / blades / assorted scratchy things).

These are made for c64, but whatever company made them, could make the same for CPC for a reasonable price if the quantities are high enough. These are sold for about €4.50 after the reseller has made a profit, so the production price can't be all that bad.

Bryce.

Edit: you could even add some LEDs and make it glow :)
keep talking dirty....
:laugh:
My games. My Games
My website with coding examples: Unofficial Amstrad WWW Resource

Bryce

@Arnoldemu: You need to get out more and meet real people. :D

Bryce.

MacDeath

#337
Er... I will try to give you a picture which compare the Atari (5200 or 7800 don't remember) cartridge and an Amstrad...

From what i remember the Atari is sligtly larger (1 milimeter actually...) and lack the dig-in of the Amstrad one (don't knoiw how to tell in English....you know the stuff so you put it in the right side...


So I gessed that if an Atari cart can't fit into an Amstrad computer, an Amstrad Cartridge may fin into an Atari...

But the casing must be able to house both kind of cart-board...

And those are quite different, the Atari being slightly larger...


But at this moment I am cleaning my appartment and doing some paperwork (Administratum...Damn... it will exist even after Humanity disapear from earth...)



The multiEprom cartridge from Spain : I talked with the  guy, he did it with some sort of er... Resin ?

what the name in english again ?

BTW, he did the mold himself but this mold is not getting better with time.

My father has a machine tool, I may try to craft a mold in metal (milling machine)

Just need the proper specifications (Card and Amstrad Socket) and 2 big piece of metal... and time... a properly designed schematic...

But hey, if a commercial company can do it better and not that expensive, why not...But priority is for the Cards and components...

In my opinoion, if we can get a new card, and an old cartridge, we just give those to the plastic company and they craft a proper stuff...then ask for a few hundreds and get the coders and graphists and musician working on GX4000 compatible games... !!!

But it will cost an advance of cash. ouch.

Cpcmaniaco

The person who make it is David (D-O-S).

He make with resin, the kit for make soldiers with warhammer,for exemple.

But with the use need make another.




Bryce

Hi all,
     today I was in the University of Erlangen in the "FAPS" department (where they do automation research). They have a RepRap machine there, which I got a good look at. It really is an impressive little machine, but I spoke with the people who have used it and it definitely isn't the solution for building cartridge casings. For a start, the minimum wall thickness is around 4 or 5 times thicker than a normal cartridge. The second problem is the speed, according to the people I spoke with, a cartridge would take between 7 and 9 hours to "print"!!! Great for one off prototypes, definitely not great for production.

Bryce.

SyX

Well, if you go here. you will see that Mr. Mcleod has made an implementation of the ACID in a CPLD, and he has promised to publish in his web all the details and the verilog source for the CPLD :)

Stay tuned!!!  ;)

Nilquader

#341
There's no need to wait  ;)  I've just put the Verilog code used to simulate the ACID on the Wiki. It was written by Octoate and me at the Xzentrix Party 2010. Schematics for the cartridge will follow as soon as we finished it.

And there are more news: It's possible to start the CPC+/GX4000 completely without ACID by exploiting a timing bug in the CPC+/GX4000 ASIC. It needs just 5 standard components. Photo and schematics are on the wiki. Detailed explanation will follow as soon as i find time for that.

Edit: Why does the CPC+ run without ACID?
As soon as the CPC+ ASIC detects a wrong signal on the SIN line it pulls the CCLR line down (as you can see here: http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:ACID_Init_by_Grim.png) The 74AC112N is a RS Flipflop which switches the polarity of SIN as soon as it detects the Pulse on CCLR. (You need the 74AC series. Everything else isn't fast enough and won't work!) The ACID now gets the correct SIN level and sets CCLR high again. And everything runs fine until the ASIC detects the next "wrong" level of the SIN signal. So the CPC+ tells you everything you need to fool him  :D


--
Nilquader of SPRING
http://www.nilquader.net/

redbox

All of which is fantastic news!!!


@Nilquader - you say you can start a Plus without the ACID, but does it keep on running?  What happens when the ASIC detects the wrong SIN level again?

MacDeath

Quotetoday I was in the University of Erlangen in the "FAPS" department
:laugh:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=to%20fap
;D :D :laugh:

arnoldemu

#344
Quote from: Nilquader on 10:43, 15 April 11
There's no need to wait  ;)  I've just put the Verilog code used to simulate the ACID on the Wiki. It was written by Octoate and me at the Xzentrix Party 2010. Schematics for the cartridge will follow as soon as we finished it.

And there are more news: It's possible to start the CPC+/GX4000 completely without ACID by exploiting a timing bug in the CPC+/GX4000 ASIC. It needs just 5 standard components. Photo and schematics are on the wiki. Detailed explanation will follow as soon as i find time for that.

Edit: Why does the CPC+ run without ACID?
As soon as the CPC+ ASIC detects a wrong signal on the SIN line it pulls the CCLR line down (as you can see here: http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/File:ACID_Init_by_Grim.png) The 74AC112N is a RS Flipflop which switches the polarity of SIN as soon as it detects the Pulse on CCLR. (You need the 74AC series. Everything else isn't fast enough and won't work!) The ACID now gets the correct SIN level and sets CCLR high again. And everything runs fine until the ASIC detects the next "wrong" level of the SIN signal. So the CPC+ tells you everything you need to fool him  :D
great work!

It is funny that there is a timing bug and that the acid can be replaced with this more simple circuit.

So this will work with any carts? Games too?

So now we need to get those plastic cases ;)

EDIT: I think this working together, and publishing the information is really great for the Plus and future cartridge games.
I think it really helps the Amstrad scene.

I don't think there is any problem with mcleod also making an implementation.
I think it's great to explore all possibilies and discover all the tricks and things we need so that we will finally be able to make cheap cartridges with games on them that others can buy and play on.

Really the case is the final problem that needs to be resolved.
Once I have got my current projects out of the way I plan to work on a cartridge game.

EDIT: Nilquader, please can we have a more closer view of the 74AC112N version?
The picture doesn't do it enough justice.
My games. My Games
My website with coding examples: Unofficial Amstrad WWW Resource

Nilquader

Quote from: redbox on 11:34, 15 April 11

@Nilquader - you say you can start a Plus without the ACID, but does it keep on running?  What happens when the ASIC detects the wrong SIN level again?


The Flipflop just switches SIN again and the CPC keeps running. Used this Circuit for many hours continuous operation and found no problems.


It works with ANY Cart, even games. Only issue is when using a reset switch in your CPC+: pressing reset is not detected and the SIN level might be wrong (50% chance). Then the CPC shows weird colors and you have to press reset again or switch it off and on. And because of that I recommend the CPLD solution for professional carts.


Quote
EDIT: Nilquader, please can we have a more closer view of the 74AC112N version?
The picture doesn't do it enough justice.

There are just four wires between Cartridge and ACID replacement. Can't be a CPLD or the real ACID. If you don't believe, buy the parts (about 0.50$)  and build it on a piece of breadboard  ;D




--
Nilquader of SPRING
http://www.nilquader.net/

TFM

@Nil & Octo: How much would such a solution (for a professional cartridge) cose per unit? Can you please give a rough estimste?
TFM of FutureSoft
Also visit the CPC and Plus users favorite OS: FutureOS - The Revolution on CPC6128 and 6128Plus

MacDeath

Astute chaps there... 8)

SyX

How i told you yesterday, Miguel Angel (aka mcleod_ideafix) has published all the info about his implementation of the ACID in a CPLD, verilog sources included, you can find here  :)

Now all the info is in spanish, but include a lot of pictures and if there is interest how with his other projects (i love when he attached a msx vdp to a zx) an english version will appear very soon  ;)

Nilquader

Wow! Lots of information. The pictures look interesting - I hope there will be an english version soon.


mcleod_ideafix used the same Oscilloscope, Logic Analyzer, CPLDs and HDL as Octoate and me did. He must have been at Xzentrix 2010 taking spy pics of our equipment ;)
--
Nilquader of SPRING
http://www.nilquader.net/

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