CPCWiki forum

The MSX to CPC adapter, which I mentioned here...
http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/msx-to-cpc-io-hardware-adapter/ (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/msx-to-cpc-io-hardware-adapter/)
...finally became reality thanks to TMT Logic ( http://www.tmtlogic.com )!
It's now called AMSDAP - Amstrad MSx aDAPter - and is able to connect any MSX I/O based hardware to the CPC.
Today I received an alpha version of the adapter and made some first tests with the SE-ONE, a hardware by TMT LOGIC which is able to play MP3s (compatible to the Sunrise MP3MSX card from 2007) and FM Radio via a real antenna.

Here is a short video about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvlGBS3nNiY (https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DvvlGBS3nNiY&h=ATPKWXzMafMaOrCuGVTdTVA29WMTyZEkCw0lsIzxFr0xNGG7G77377l1sMc-8kqDI_Hwf1WCNP5Y5t8OLTaEbxOvznBiuTaRncVjHbmaxGI0BsWEhFcIyJGubQAN96HG1z2dx6d6gw)

What is this sorcery?

Quote from: khaz on 22:17, 11 October 17
What is this sorcery?

The sorcerer who build it? He is dutch :) They probably have a lot of sorcerer and druids there :P

I was reading your other thread and the memory mapping problem. Can some future hardware, carefully memory mapped, work on both systems? Are there limitations?

The MSX has a quite brilliant memory slot system which is very specific and based on memory mapping and a clever ROM-system for plug'n'play for external hardware. No idea if it's possibe to implement it for the CPC, but I am not hardware guy.
But this is only for mass storage devices (mainly), not for the other types of hardware.

First MSX hardware has been tested very successfully with AMSDAP, for more information have a look here (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/mp3-player-for-the-amstrad-cpc/).

Amazing Hardware  :o :o :o

Hmmmm, could I connect my Sony HBD-50 floppy controller to it? :)

Bryce.

Indeed another amazing achievement!

It's hard to keep up with all the hardware goodies surfacing for the CPC lately!

/ygdrazil

Quote from: XeNoMoRPH on 09:41, 16 October 17
Amazing Hardware  :o :o :o

Yesterday I connected an original Graphics9000 graphic card to the CPC via the AMSDAP for the first time, and today I was able to run the first tests of the SymbOS low level graphic driver.

[attach=2]
(the left monitor is showing the output of the G9K, which is the black catridge (currently MSX catridges have to be inserted into the AMSDAP prototyp in the reverse way)

The first simple ones are working so far. It is just to prove, that this third hardware is working fine with AMSDAP and the CPC, too. More complex tests will follow.

WoW  :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

Soon we have 16 colors on the CPC in SymbOS back again! :D :D

Can you use the CPC powergraph board from tecnobytes at the same time as this adapter?

Quote from: Munchausen on 12:28, 17 October 17Can you use the CPC powergraph board from tecnobytes at the same time as this adapter?

Yes, it can be used at the same time. The AMSDAP is not much more like the normal CPC expansion bus with swapped pins and additional fixes and modifications (like the sound output connector).
We decided to move the port range now completely to #FFxx, so all MSX I/O devices (which are always 8bit -> #00-#FF) will be mapped to #FF00-#FFFF.
Tecnobytes took this port range for their CPC V9990 powergraph as well, it will now be accessible via ports #FF60-#FF67, that means, it will be fully compatible to an existing MSX V9990 Graphic9000 cards connected via AMSDAP.

Quote from: Prodatron on 15:02, 17 October 17
We decided to move the port range now completely to #FFxx, so all MSX I/O devices (which are always 8bit -> #00-#FF) will be mapped to #FF00-#FFFF.

That is of course a problem for users of the CPC(Mini)-Booster(+) or the ECB adapter (ok, nobody cares about this one). It would be great to use "free" ports. It would be really great if you could split the ports to &FDxx and &FFxx as you proposed before, because SF2 and CPCB leave enough room. Maybe &FD80...FF and &FF80...FF. That would make the amsdap compatible :-)

There are several reasons for this decission:
- software accessing the hardware will run on both the CPC and the MSX, if 16bit ports are used; the MSX just ignores the upper 8bits, so if you OUT something to #FFxx, it's fine for both machines (CPC will see #FFxx, MSX will see #xx); that adds another level of platform independency, now not only for software, but even for hardware; if you shift parts of the port ranges this wouldn't be possible
- TBH: Who is using the CPC Booster (original, mini, plus, whatever...) today, when everyone is now owning Dukes' M4Board? With the availability of the M4Board it is more or less needless
- if you really still need it (maybe your software doesn't run with the M4Board?), just do it and take care not to connect MSX hardware, which could cause a conflict; Moonsound and Graphics9000 will still work fine together with the old Booster
- and of course: Keep it simple ;) no additional CPLD is required for AMSDAP

Sounds logical to me, sacrificing a bit of compatibility with other add-ons for easier and more compatible software support - especially when this isn't just one add on, but a bridge to a wide range of add-ons.

so this supports the MSX V9990 on the CPC? that's a big plus for people with both platforms - one less thing to buy!

Quote from: keith56 on 04:31, 19 October 17so this supports the MSX V9990 on the CPC? that's a big plus for people with both platforms - one less thing to buy!

Yes, the Graphics9000 (V9990 for the MSX) is fully working on my CPC with the AMSDAP so far!

About Software compatibility... well, just change one port in the source code. You can use an IF CPC / IF MSX construction even in Maxam.


The Booster is a great piece of hardware, and M4 has no extra CPU, no DAC, no AD WAV making thing and no RS485 local area network (independent of the PC or internet).


I'm sure that AMSDAP is a great innovation, but why sacrificing hardware compatibility for no reason?


Maybe you guys can sleep over and think about it again. Would be nice.  :) :) :)

Quote from: GUNHED on 13:19, 19 October 17The Booster is a great piece of hardware

Its relevant software (Arkos ROM pack) was in general only using the RS232 part, with which you could transfer files and data between the CPC and a PC. That's the reason why the Booster isn't needed anymore since the M4Board. An RS232 interface is exotic today for modern PCs/Notebooks/etc. anyway.

Quote from: GUNHED on 13:19, 19 October 17and M4 has [...] no RS485 local area network (independent of the PC or internet).

Do you really think, that people want an RS485 local area network today?

Quote from: GUNHED on 13:19, 19 October 17Maybe you guys can sleep over and think about it again.

No thanks, instead of sleeping we are more focused on improving things and developing new stuff.

One of these, I need!

Sent from my ONEPLUS 3t using Tapatalk

Really impressive the hardware devices launched for CPC: M4, this one... We are reaching a really high level in hardware!


Moreover, MSX and CPC are my 2 favourites system, I would be glad to get them "connected"  :) :)


Good luck, really!

Quote from: Prodatron on 22:49, 18 October 17
There are several reasons for this decission:
- software accessing the hardware will run on both the CPC and the MSX, if 16bit ports are used; the MSX just ignores the upper 8bits, so if you OUT something to #FFxx, it's fine for both machines (CPC will see #FFxx, MSX will see #xx); that adds another level of platform independency, now not only for software, but even for hardware; if you shift parts of the port ranges this wouldn't be possible

Totally agree here, that AMSDAP use the "same" range ports on both machines is a HUGE way of simplify things!

keep the good work going @Prodatron (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13) (and all the people involved!)

P.D. if AMSDAP makes the Graphics9000 work, is there still need for a dedicated CPC board? (i paid for one!), maybe is a little slower with the adaptor?

Quote from: Joseman on 11:21, 20 October 17
Totally agree here, that AMSDAP use the "same" range ports on both machines is a HUGE way of simplify things!

keep the good work going @Prodatron (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13) (and all the people involved!)

P.D. if AMSDAP makes the Graphics9000 work, is there still need for a dedicated CPC board? (i paid for one!), maybe is a little slower with the adaptor?

The biggest challenge I'm facing with porting my game to the other systems is the differing graphics system on the CPC vs MSX vs ZX spectrum

The MSX, CPC, and 128k Speccy all have the same sound chip, and the DiskIO and the other system differences are pretty trivial - having this thing available on the CPC+MSX is going to really encourage MSX developers to consider extending support to the CPC

As I said before, if this was available for the speccy too, it would be absolutely awesome, but I understand the reasons mentioned why this is unlikely.

Quote from: Joseman on 11:21, 20 October 17P.D. if AMSDAP makes the Graphics9000 work, is there still need for a dedicated CPC board? (i paid for one!), maybe is a little slower with the adaptor?

It's not slower with the Adapter, it both will behave in exactly the same way. I also paid for the CPC version, but I don't think that was a bad decision, as prices are the same for the CPC and the MSX version of the V9990 Powergraph. If you only want the V9990, then the dedicated one would be already enough. But the adapter brings additional possibilities.

@keith56 (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1886), I completely agree with you!

Quote from: keith56 on 12:26, 20 October 17As I said before, if this was available for the speccy too, it would be absolutely awesome, but I understand the reasons mentioned why this is unlikely.

I am not experienced with the ZX Spectrum so much, but when having a quick look at the expansion bus...
https://faqwiki.zxnet.co.uk/wiki/ZX_Spectrum_edge_connector
...I don't see a reason, why such an MSX adapter shouldn't be possible for the Spectrum as well? I can ask TNT Logic, if they would be interested in such a project, too, but then they probably need help and support from a ZX Spectum expert :)

Quote from: Prodatron on 23:51, 19 October 17
Its relevant software (Arkos ROM pack) was in general only using the RS232 part, with which you could transfer files and data between the CPC and a PC. That's the reason why the Booster isn't needed anymore since the M4Board. An RS232 interface is exotic today for modern PCs/Notebooks/etc. anyway.
Do you really think, that people want an RS485 local area network today?
No thanks, instead of sleeping we are more focused on improving things and developing new stuff.

Haha, no, I meant to think over it (not to sleep over it). I know that you never sleep and your recent (last couple of years!) output is just absolutely amazing. My congratulation here for constant amazing work for the CPC (and other Z80 systems too).

However, everybody uses hardware (the CPC Booster f.e.) in a different way. Just because one person is not using a feature it doesn't mean that others wouldn't use it.

IMHO the AMSDAP would be more interesting if it could be used with the Booster together, but it's your baby, do what you want.  :)

And if you want, you still can add a poll and ask people what they want (about the address range).  :)

Around two weeks ago I received the (nearly?) final version of the AMSDAP adapter.
It is containing three Mother4X-like slots for normal CPC hardware and two MSX catridge slots for I/O based hardware.
TBH, running powerfull MSX hardware on the CPC is really cool!

This weekend we had the MSX meeting in Nijmegen/The Netherlands again, where it was running the whole time including the CPC version of the V9990 Powergraph:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16GFIp7LJR4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16GFIp7LJR4)

During this evening I made a very short video, showing the AMSDAP with my CPC hardware (M4 Board, X-MEM, Albireo) and MSX hardware (Graphics9000, SE-ONE):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSgS_Knmn6A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSgS_Knmn6A)
working together very nice in SymbOS :)

It looks great! I think that has to be the 'most upgraded cpc ever!'

Any rough idea when it will be available for purchase?

Hy, i seen the adapter at the Mitwintermeeting.


It is a Brainblasting thing!
The GFX-Card ist superior, and the MP3/FM Module was playing MP3s all the time at the meeting, using SymbOS on the CPC:)
Funny, that no one thought of this in the past...  ???
Perfect piece of Hardware! Hard to wait, to get my Hands on it.


Maybe Cards like the Playsonic are useable, adding the MasterSystem Video Chip, SID an much more RAM you can ever imagine for the CPC.
I am really excited, what will be possible in the Hands of Prodatron an other Programming Wizards!


Thank all the guys who programm and developing Hardware for the CPC, for the good an bright times!


Bye/Servus
Tolkin

Quote from: Tolkin on 21:18, 11 February 18
Maybe Cards like the Playsonic are useable, adding the MasterSystem Video Chip, SID an much more RAM you can ever imagine for the CPC.

Yeahhh real SNpsg & SID musics on our CPC

I have a new gfx card shortly.
the GFX-NINE SCART, improved clone of the MSX GFX9000

Quote from: TMTLOGIC on 17:19, 02 July 18
I have a new gfx card shortly.
the GFX-NINE SCART, improved clone of the MSX GFX9000

... I have the Powergraph, but still haven't done anything with it. Is there any software besides SymbOS that does something with the card? It would be nice if people would also think of supporting the native OS... not everybody is using SymbOS or FutureOS. The customer base will be much larger if you add some driver support for the native CPC OS for these cool devices. Without (driver) software to support them, they are just bricks of silicon.

Quote from: LambdaMikel on 19:07, 03 July 18
It would be nice if people would also think of supporting the native OS...

Hmmm, difficult.
What support can maybe be possible?
- Games, i think only with 1:1 displayed as in the normal CPC-Mode (no Advantage). This Support must be come from the Firmware of the GFX-Card, to handle Pokes to C000 ?!
- "Mode 3", only for Text-Display?

I will ask the MSX users ,if there is z80 asm code can be found online
the GFX uses port & ff60 - & ff6f

... and the same applies for the other devices. If there was a simple program or RSX command for the MP3 player extensions I would buy it immediately for example.

Quote from: LambdaMikel on 16:50, 04 July 18
... and the same applies for the other devices.

That's correct,
btw. my FAT32-Support for the Symbiface 3 (one of TMTLOGIC's other cards) is finished, I'm only working on the HXC-Interface as an MassStorage-Device, which has actual Problems with XOR-Cracks. (after that i will release that ROM)

Quote from: LambdaMikel on 19:07, 03 July 18
.. not everybody is using SymbOS or FutureOS. The customer base will be much larger if you add some driver support for the native CPC OS for these cool devices. Without (driver) software to support them, they are just bricks of silicon.

Don't get me wrong, I am extremely impressed by SymbOS and FutureOS, it is just that I am "old school" hence my preference for the native OS.

Quote from: LambdaMikel on 17:38, 04 July 18
it is just that I am "old school" hence my preference for the native OS.

Me too  ;)
I'm only develop for native OS  :o  :D

So I'm dreaming of my own GFX9000, but only for native OS.
But where to start the OS-Support of the Card, where is the target of native OS-Support?
At the Moment i dont' have visions :(

Hi Guys, here is a great Z80-library for the V9990 (Graphics 9000) by MSD:
https://www.teambomba.net/gfx9klib.html (https://www.teambomba.net/gfx9klib.html)
If I got it correctly, Technobytes was using this lib for creating the CPC powergraph demo. Maybe someone can port it to the CPC? The only thing which have to be done is to convert all 8bit I/O-commands to 16bit I/O. For the SymbOS low level graphic driver that was quite easy.
Unfortunately I was lazy during the last 8 monthes, but I am planing to release something this weekend.

Quote from: Prodatron on 00:48, 05 July 18
but I am planing to release something this weekend.

Best news on my last 3 months!!
Can you describe "something"?  :P

The AMSDAP42
Ask Prodatron for information.

Hmmm... I would buy one IF it had an edge connector option...  :(

Any chance you can add an edge (for the edge connector) to it?

If I ever make a new development I will think about it,
new hardware is often used as IDC.
edge connector PCBs are more expensive because of the gold-plated contacts.

I do not see any progress in edge connectors

Quote from: TMTLOGIC on 18:23, 07 July 18
If I ever make a new development I will think about it,
new hardware is often used as IDC.
edge connector PCBs are more expensive because of the gold-plated contacts.

I do not see any progress in edge connectors

Exactly, my friend, it is not about progress but making sure that CPC 464 users can connect their existing hardware to new boards for RETRO computers.  :P If it wasn't for compatibility of new hardware with old retro hardware, then what's the point of it? We could just run our CPC software on emulators. But we don't  ;)

I understand you. it can be solved to make a small adapter pcb. from IDC to edge
which popular cards have a finger edge connector?

Please, NO more adapters, cables, add ons, ... the more cables, the more voltage drop, the less reliable, the more mess  :P All we need is a clean "all in one solution".Why not simply add it?? Enough with all these jiggsaw puzzle pieces that put together in the end won't work reliably. Let's have a clean all in one solution, once and for all, for ALL CPC users and hardware.

Here is the list:

   
• http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Amstrad_External_Disk_Drive
• http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Dk%27tronics_Speech_Synthesizer
• http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Amstrad_SSA-1_Speech_Synthesizer
• https://www.sellmyretro.com/offer/details/DDI3-USB-floppy-emulator-for-amstrad-cpc-464-11223
• http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Dk%27tronics_Lightpen
• http://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Dk%27tronics_Memory_Expansion_Gallery

and and and...

For example, the DDI3 does NOT work if you are using an adapter and a cable at the end of MotherX4 - voltage drop is too high. Either due to diode on MotherX4, or some other electrical problem. It would be great if these problems could be avoided with your extension board. The problems with MotherX4 and DDI3 was the main motivation for doing this board: https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/fCGxBoNY (https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/fCGxBoNY)

thanks, note: the AMSDAP does not use diodes, there is an external 5v usb power connector

Quote from: TMTLOGIC on 16:48, 08 July 18
thanks, note: the AMSDAP does not use diodes, there is an external 5v usb power connector

Yes, the MotherX4 also has an exterrnal power connector. Guess what - same problem with DDI3 with or without power connector  :P
I understand that CPC 464 is no longer the most popular machine in the CPC range, and most people probably don't have any of these problems. Nevertheless, I still continue pushing for 464 compatibility, of course I think your hardware development and products are great  :) but it would be nice if all hardware developers could be more aware of the 464 user's needs. After all, the 464 is the most "iconic" CPC IMHO, as it started the whole range, so it deserves better recognition and support  ;) If you google for Amstrad CPC, you will get what - a picture of a CPC 464, not a 6128  ;)

Quote from: LambdaMikel on 16:56, 08 July 18
Yes, the MotherX4 also has an exterrnal power connector. Guess what - same problem with DDI3 with or without power connector  :P
I understand that CPC 464 is no longer the most popular machine in the CPC range, and most people probably don't have any of these problems. Nevertheless, I still continue pushing for 464 compatibility, of course I think your hardware development and products are great  :) but it would be nice if all hardware developers could be more aware of the 464 user's needs. After all, the 464 is the most "iconic" CPC IMHO, as it started the whole range, so it deserves better recognition and support  ;)

MotherX4 also has a diode on the power connector, so if the 0.7 voltage drop is the problem it won't fix things (just replace the 2 diodes with jumpers, and voila no more voltage drop).
An IDC to edge adapter PCB, should be a good solution, it can have short and thick traces, good connection on the IDC connector side and brand new plated edge connector (as long as it lasts). Should imo. be a solid solution and just as good as if the plated edge connector was on the PCB itself.

Quote from: Duke on 17:06, 08 July 18
MotherX4 also has a diode on the power connector, so if the 0.7 voltage drop is the problem it won't fix things (just replace the 2 diodes with jumpers, and voila no more voltage drop).
An IDC to edge adapter PCB, should be a good solution, it can have short and thick traces, good connection on the IDC connector side and brand new plated edge connector (as long as it lasts). Should imo. be a solid solution and just as good as if the plated edge connector was on the PCB itself.

I still dislike the wiggliness that comes with extra cables and adapters and all that. Why not simply put the PCB edge on the board... that gives increased stability also, for DDI3 etc. It just sits stable and straight on the table then without flying around connected to some loose ends.

Quote from: LambdaMikel on 17:09, 08 July 18
I still dislike the wiggliness that comes with extra cables and adapters and all that.

It could be as simple as this. Make a 90 degree and straight variant and you got it all covered :)
I like the MotherX4 (or Amsdap) to be flat on the table....

... and then, the DDI3 display is facing down towards the table?  :o Can't find the strongly dislike button  ;)

... since not everybody seems to know the DDI3, here is a pic

Quote from: LambdaMikel on 18:26, 08 July 18
... and then, the DDI3 display is facing down towards the table?  :o Can't find the strongly dislike button  ;)

Quote from: Duke on 17:18, 08 July 18
It could be as simple as this. Make a 90 degree and straight variant and you got it all covered :)

Quote from: LambdaMikel on 18:29, 08 July 18
... since not everybody seems to know the DDI3, here is a pic

Yeah it's quite a monster :P - Other than that it doesn't stick down 2-3-4 cm's like other old expansions (ie. DDI-1).

Quote from: Duke on 18:40, 08 July 18
Yeah it's quite a monster :P - Other than that it doesn't stick down 2-3-4 cm's like other old expansions (ie. DDI-1).

Right. Is that 2x3x4 cm thing some kind of "CPC dogma"?  Who cares how big the expansion is as long as it does its job...

Quote from: LambdaMikel on 19:41, 08 July 18
Right. Is that 2x3x4 cm thing some kind of "CPC dogma"?  Who cares how big the expansion is as long as it does its job...

I was referring to the point of the "mx4", "amsdap" or your board being flat on the table with an expansion plugged into the rear end of an on pcb edge connector.
Eitherway I think you misinterpretated my intention, I tried suggesting an imo. solid solution to your issue. Which turned out to be for pluging in the DDI-3, fair enough you have a point and it doesn't cost a dime to add an rear edge connector on the PCB.

Quote from: Duke on 19:53, 08 July 18
I was referring to the point of the "mx4", "amsdap" or your board being flat on the table with an expansion plugged into the rear end of an on pcb edge connector.
Eitherway I think you misinterpretated my intention, I tried suggesting an imo. solid solution to your issue. Which turned out to be for pluging in the DDI-3, fair enough you have a point and it doesn't cost a dime to add an rear edge connector on the PCB.

Appreciate  your suggestions of course didn't mean to come along rude.
It is just that I have explored all these IMHO unsatisfactory solutions and
I would really strongly like to suggest to add the edge.

See I can connect the ddi3 with a cable to an IDC box header or an edge
Connector - see image below at the right.  It is just that I don't
Like these solutions for reasons of stability and reliability.

Anybody can design their hardware the way they like of course. 
Just saying that adding such an edge might give you some
More 464 customers.

Cheers Michael

Ah yes indeed I missed the 90 degree variant only looked at the image - clear case of read before you post on my side  ;) That would work I have 90 degree IDC box headers.
I would still prefer the edge though.


I will try your suggestion / solution and report back.
So for this we would need the Straight IDC box headers not the angled ones.

Actually I would be very interested (CPC6128) in a Centronics Version of the card, and of course it would be great to also have a Centronics plug to add more expansions (four MX4 slots are not enough for me).  :)

Quote from: TMTLOGIC on 18:23, 07 July 18
If I ever make a new development I will think about it,
new hardware is often used as IDC.
edge connector PCBs are more expensive because of the gold-plated contacts.

I do not see any progress in edge connectors

Great looking device, and a wonderful addition to the CPC

I can't say I'm too concerned about the lack of an edge connector, the majority of new hardware is using the MX4 connectiors, and as already pointed out, there are converter dongles out there for the other cases... I have a DDI3 and an old multiface 2, but there are other options for these with the MX4... and as my CPC+ does not have an edge connector, MX4 is the logical solution for overall compatability

I can imagine developing and testing a board like this has taken a lot of time and money, so I'm not surprised there is a desire to focus on a single model, rather than branch out into 'variants' with different connectors

I agree with all of this.  However adding a pcb edge doesn't cost a dime as duke said so why not just do it. It takes more time discussing this than actually doing it  ;D anyhow just my 2 cents.

Quote from: LambdaMikel on 22:19, 08 July 18
I agree with all of this.  However adding a pcb edge doesn't cost a dime as duke said so why not just do it. It takes more time discussing this than actually doing it  ;D anyhow just my 2 cents.

But ADDING something to a completed design does, doesn't it? - if only because you have to test it again... The point is they've announced a product, and the only feedback they've got is a page of whining about a connector most people don't use for their upgrades anymore.

If it was my product, I'd be pi$$ed.

Quote from: GUNHED on 21:44, 08 July 18
Actually I would be very interested (CPC6128) in a Centronics Version of the card, and of course it would be great to also have a Centronics plug to add more expansions (four MX4 slots are not enough for me).  :)

Right pass through centronics AND pass through edge ->  $£€ big time!

Sure, but I like stable hardware as much as you.  :)

Quote from: keith56 on 22:29, 08 July 18
But ADDING something to a completed design does, doesn't it? - if only because you have to test it again... The point is they've announced a product, and the only feedback they've got is a page of whining about a connector most people don't use for their upgrades anymore.

If it was my product, I'd be pi$$ed.

There is no such thing as a finished product 😊
Do you any statistics on the use of edge connector hardware Vs Others?
Who is most people

Quote from: LambdaMikel on 22:30, 08 July 18

Right pass through centronics AND pass through edge ->  $£€ big time!

Saying 'Hey great product, thanks for all your hard work, this really brings a lot to the CPC community' costs nothing either, but I don't see too many post saying that...

'If you ever had chance... could you add..." should come second.

You have to read again then.
Everybody in this thread has said a couple times that it is a great product!  :)

For those that care about the 464 and edge connector, let the whining continue here:

http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/mother-x4-and-ddi3-mods/ (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/amstrad-cpc-hardware/mother-x4-and-ddi3-mods/)

Well, the first time I saw the Amsdap was early this year and it's a fascinating device (as stated before), back the day it had three MX4 slots, now the picture shows 4 of them. :)  That's great!  :)  Now my questions:

   
• Is the design finished?
• How can this nice device be ordered?
• Is there a rough estimate for the price?

Great work anyway!

Yes, the design is ready,
for questions about sales and functions. please contact Prodatron
there are a number in stock.

Hi guys,

the price for an AMSDAP42 (4x CPC slot - MotherX4 compatible, 2x MSX slot - any MSX I/O-based hardware)

is 35€ + shipping costs (from Germany).

It can be ordered now.

Please write me to

jmika (at) prodatron (dot) net

Please note, that currently we don't ship any cables (edge or centronics). You can use your MotherX4 cable for connecting the AMSDAP to your CPC. If someone has a good source for edge connectors, please tell me.You should organize an USB power supply as well with an USB type B cable (which is the big one used for slave devices like printers). As usual the AMSDAP allows to use the (weak) power supply of the CPC, but it is recommended to operate it with an external 5V one. There is one real switch on the AMSDAP for choosing internal/external power supply as well as an additional switch for turning off the external power. This is very useful, as you can turn off the powersupply for the connected cards as soon as you switched off your CPC.

CU,
Prodatron

Great stuff, I hope to get one so I can use my V9990 on the CPC.

Oh, just a reminder, I offered a 'bounty' for anyone getting V9K support working on a CPC emulator, that still stands, and if anyone does it, I'll add V9K support to any future games, and document it in my tutorial series.

Quote from: keith56 on 01:29, 07 April 18
I'd be willing to make a 100 euro donation to any emulator author who got V9990 emulation working - it would save me that much in personal suffering compared to testing on real hardware!!!

Quote from: keith56 on 00:24, 10 July 18
Oh, just a reminder, I offered a 'bounty' for anyone getting V9K support working on a CPC emulator, that still stands

You deserve one as well - here you go  :P

Quote from: Prodatron on 22:52, 09 July 18
Hi guys,

the price for an AMSDAP42 (4x CPC slot - MotherX4 compatible, 2x MSX slot - any MSX I/O-based hardware)

is 35€ + shipping costs (from Germany).

It can be ordered now.

I am still debating a bit with myself. It is certainly a very impressive product
(even though I am not a big fan of the MSX).
What other MSX cards are available currently besides the MP3 player and graphics card?

Thanks for any info. 

It's a fair question. I only have the V9K and a MegaFlashRom for the MSX... Personally I'd say the V9K makes this worth owning alone, but of course for non MSX owners, there is the native CPC V9K...

In all seriousness, is there any possibility of using the extra ram of the MegaFlashRom on the CPC?, I mean, how do the memory mapped 'Slots' of the MSX hardware work with the CPC on this device?... I kind of assume the answer is 'Not at all' and that the only access to MSX hardware via amsdap is via OUTs... but I'd like to ask to be sure!

Quote from: keith56 on 08:53, 10 July 18
It's a fair question. I only have the V9K and a MegaFlashRom for the MSX... Personally I'd say the V9K makes this worth owning alone, but of course for non MSX owners, there is the native CPC V9K...

Right, and I have that Powergraph card already. But maybe I'll change my mind when / if other cards are coming out soon.

What I would buy though - any kind of MIDI or synthesizer or sound card stuff, especially with dual SID or the like. I believe MSX Yamaha had an FM synthesizer extension board... CM5 or something. But one would need CPC software (for native OS, also please!) for all these things, at least rudimentary driver support is necessary IMHO.

the AMSDAP only supports I / O base hardware
MSX memory boards or other memory cards do not work.

the MSX IO address 0x00 - 0xFF is placed in the address range of CPC 0xFF00 - 0xFFFF
This does not mean that this whole series is occupied.
Only the addresses that a card uses are active



I have asked some MSX users to come up with ideas. to use interesting MSX cards on the CPC
indeed the MSX has a lot of sound cards or midi cards

-

Great I take one, will Email too.  :) :) :)

Quote from: TMTLOGIC on 17:13, 10 July 18
the AMSDAP only supports I / O base hardware
MSX memory boards or other memory cards do not work.

Yes, I assumed that would be the case, but I thought I would ask, Thanks for the clarification

Concerning MSX audio interfaces, there are several to choose from:


-FM-PAC based on a YM2413 opl chip
-Music module based on a Y8950 opl chip
-OPL4 or moonsound based on a YMF-278B-F chip including wave and FM voices
-Some MIDI interfaces
-And off-coarse my own MIDI-PAC v1 and v2 which translates YM2413 and AY8910 soundchip behavior into realtime MIDI data so a full blown synth, keyboard or module can play the sound/music.
-The new Supersoniqs Darky dual PSG with effect processor is also coming up.


So there's lot's to choose from.

Well, if we get MSX cards, we should all choose the same cards of a kind, so it's more easy to do software for it. At the moment you find some support for SymbOS as far as I know f.e. MP3 cards (like seen on the last Mittwinter meeting).

Which cards make the most sense for the CPC then?

Quote from: GUNHED on 13:15, 11 July 18
Well, if we get MSX cards, we should all choose the same cards of a kind, so it's more easy to do software for it. At the moment you find some support for SymbOS as far as I know f.e. MP3 cards (like seen on the last Mittwinter meeting).

Which cards make the most sense for the CPC then?

Honestly I don't know all the details of the CPC, kind of new here, but the YM2413 based sound cards (FM-PAC) do have a nice sound to them, software is easy and there are several clones build of that FM-PAC wich is good for the availability. The MIDI-PAC will just take in the I/O stream that is going to that sound chip and translate it to MIDI which gives you two things for one effort  :)

Is there an actual source for buying such FM-PAC clones ?

Quote from: Shining on 10:47, 19 July 18
Is there an actual source for buying such FM-PAC clones ?

Bit late but... At least FM-PAQ:s are available: http://www.ebsoft.fr/shop/en/hardware/14-fm-paq-lite-with-audio-out.html (http://www.ebsoft.fr/shop/en/hardware/14-fm-paq-lite-with-audio-out.html)

The AmsDAP can be powered by an USB cable. Can you tell me please what do you use for it? Which kind of PSU?

I am using a 9W one. Cool thing about the Amsdap is, that it is using the big slave plug (typ A to B), which is very robust. No idea if this is overkilled, but I really like it (compared to other filigree plugs).

Ok, thanks, I'll get one too. Think you're right about stability. Better some mm more than a broken card.  :)

At the moment my Amsdap works with M4, PlayCity and a 4 MB RAM expansion, the power comes from the 6128 (color) and seems to be enough. But I want to use MSX cards too (that's the purpose of it  :) ). So a PSU is nice for sure. Maybe I find something well on ebay...

Hi all,


is there a 3D case for AMSdap available ?

Reply to myself : As no one seems to have drawn such a case, I did it !Design is based on the "expansion board holder" by Rambler.
STL file attached ;)

(https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2019/04/05/mini_190405053901544135.jpg) (https://www.casimages.com/i/190405053901544135.jpg.html)

(https://nsa40.casimages.com/img/2019/04/05/mini_190405054157511146.jpg) (https://www.casimages.com/i/190405054157511146.jpg.html)

Wow cool

Can this AMSDAP be used to dump MSX cartridges? I have a Ghost cartridge that I would love to play on my phone under emulation. I also have the steam version so I can play that on my Retro Games PC but when I am on the go I'd love to have this on my Raspberry Pi and Phone.


If this were physically possible would anyone be able to code an AmsDOS or SymbOS program to dump the Game Cart rom to Mass Storage (M4 or XMASS)


Craig

Nice!
We don't have a 3d printer yet.. are any of these inexpensive ones in the 150 $ good? Can you recommend one below 300 $?

Quote from: CraigsBar on 21:46, 05 April 19
Can this AMSDAP be used to dump MSX cartridges?

That's an interesting question. As far as I know the MSX RAM cartridges can not be used with the CPC because they have different banking (IIRC). But however, can you please provide a link to such a cartridge you're talking about? I'm not familiar with MSX world that much.  :)

Quote from: GUNHED on 12:25, 07 April 19

That's an interesting question. As far as I know the MSX RAM cartridges can not be used with the CPC because they have different banking (IIRC). But however, can you please provide a link to such a cartridge you're talking about? I'm not familiar with MSX world that much.  :)

Pretty much any Japanese MSX game as they got carts, whilst the Europeans got speccy ports on tape!

The one I would love dumped for emulator use is this one.

http://www.matranet.net/boutique/msx/card/ghost/ghost.php

Some technical details here.

https://www.msx.org/wiki/MSX_Cartridge_slot


Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Maybe it's more easy to open the cartridge and read the ROM/EPROM using an programmer. But I don't know if this is an good idea...


Do we know which pins the AMSDAP provides for the MSX slot?

Quote from: GUNHED on 15:50, 07 April 19
Maybe it's more easy to open the cartridge and read the ROM/EPROM using an programmer. But I don't know if this is an good idea...


Do we know which pins the AMSDAP provides for the MSX slot?

Certainly not a good idea it's not socketed and a surface mount eprom!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Well, can the MSX computer be used to read the EPROM?

I am pretty sure about this.

Quote from: GUNHED on 17:18, 08 April 19
Well, can the MSX computer be used to read the EPROM?

'afraid not, cartridges that boot directly cannot be dumped on an Msx without a hot swap. And I don't fancy doing this with such a good game!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Quote from: Prodatron on 20:49, 08 April 19
I am pretty sure about this.

It would be awesome to be able to dump a game cart to sd card on an m4!

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

http://bifi.msxnet.org/msxnet/utils/saverom (http://bifi.msxnet.org/msxnet/utils/saverom)

is AMSDAP available yet?

Sure. Contact Prodatron.  :)

Quote from: GUNHED on 19:45, 29 July 19
Sure. Contact Prodatron.  :)

I had tried but no replies.

Hey,
Sorry for the late response.


There are still 15 AMSDAP42 in stock.
Prodatron was on vacation, so I hope they will be delivered.

Happy 2020! mates.
Now music scene on CPC has SID board thanks to  LambdaMikel's Speak&SID...
but...
Do you think that I could play SID files with my AMSDAP+Playsoniq(MSX SID board) in my CPC???


I would try Simon Owen/DaDMaN or LambdaMikel SID PLAYERS but I don't want to fry nothing...


Any CPC/MSX users like me with all that crazy stuff ????  :o

No idea.
note the msx io rangs is for the CPC & FF00 .... & FFFF

Playsoniq SID (and CMB-MOS SID) use &H00 to &H1C address

compatible???
What is that translated to CPC/AMSDAP??

[I hope only software mod is needed not hardware side]

Yes i think so


For cpc  is it  &ff00....&f1c


! No cartridge memory support
Only IO base

Maybe the SID used internal memory.


Amsdap42 is only IO base to the MSX cartridge

Quote from: RockRiver on 14:59, 10 January 20
Playsoniq SID (and CMB-MOS SID) use &H00 to &H1C address

compatible???
What is that translated to CPC/AMSDAP??

[I hope only software mod is needed not hardware side]

Hi RockRiver! :)
it should be possible to access the SID of the PlaySoniq on the CPC with AMSDAP, as the SID is I/O based (MSX ports #2A and #2B), not memory mapped.
Ports will be

- #FF2A (select SID register)
- #FF2B (write data to SID register)
See here:
https://www.msx.org/wiki/SuperSoniqs_PlaySoniq#Addressing (https://www.msx.org/wiki/SuperSoniqs_PlaySoniq#Addressing)
I would love to try it, but there is one big problem:
The Playsoniq doesn't have an own Audio-Out-connector. The MSX can route external audio-signals from expansion hardware to its own audio-output, but the CPC can't.
Maybe it is possible to open the PlaySoniq catridge and solder something for an extra audio-cable. Or you solder something at the AMSDAP circuit board to get the audio signal?

Thanks for the answers.
Great!!!
"no problemio" Playsoniq has AudioOut pinout
at pseudo-vga D-15 connector...
https://www.msx.org/wiki/SuperSoniqs_PlaySoniq#VGA-type_connector (https://www.msx.org/wiki/SuperSoniqs_PlaySoniq#VGA-type_connector)


Go to solder an audio cable then...  8)
Thanks


My CPCsx is come back to life again  ;)

Pin 49 of the msx connector is sound aux

Quote from: RockRiver on 15:39, 10 January 20
Thanks for the answers.
Great!!!
"no problemio" Playsoniq has AudioOut pinout
at pseudo-vga D-15 connector...
https://www.msx.org/wiki/SuperSoniqs_PlaySoniq#VGA-type_connector (https://www.msx.org/wiki/SuperSoniqs_PlaySoniq#VGA-type_connector)


Go to solder an audio cable then...  8)
Thanks


My CPCsx is come back to life again  ;)

Cool :D Does it mean, I have to use Pin14 (Audio out) and Pin5 or Pin10 (ground) for getting the audio signal?

CPCsx

Quote from: Prodatron
Cool :D Does it mean, I have to use Pin14 (Audio out) and Pin5 or Pin10 (ground) for getting the audio signal?

Yezz!!

Quote from: RockRiver on 16:04, 10 January 20
CPCsx

:o What's that??

Ha Ha  :picard:  Soft Porn or Sacrilege!!!
Sorry!!
Do you remember my veeery old web about changing keys on amstrad computer models???
http://galeon.hispavista.com/amstrad/restyling.html (http://galeon.hispavista.com/amstrad/restyling.html)


It's a CPC plus with black keys from a non plus 464 with CPC old logo. Blue is the color for the system software in some spanish editors. (Red: Spectrum; Black: MSX; Yellow: C64)


The anexed box is an old external CD-ROM case and inside Symbifase II and AMSDAP boards with 3 cpc and 2 msx extension board connectors.... it allows me to connect msx VDP V9990; MP3 board and maybe playsoniq SID...


More photos soon.


The goal will be attach more Sound Chips (MSX boards) with AMSDAP help.


Yeahhh some of the scene doesn't like CPC as Jukebox.
But I like a lot and I am jealous about VGM Play on MSX cousin 8bit system.


https://bitbucket.org/grauw/vgmplay-msx/src/default/ (https://bitbucket.org/grauw/vgmplay-msx/src/default/)

Quote from: RockRiver on 21:44, 10 January 20
The anexed box is an old external CD-ROM case and inside Symbifase II and AMSDAP boards with 3 cpc and 2 msx extension board connectors.... it allows me to connect msx VDP V9990; MP3 board and maybe playsoniq SID...

How did you get the needed space in height to connect Cards on the AMSDAP?
The CD-ROM-Case-Height can't be enough?

Yeah I need to make some slot holes like in msxVR
(look at that desing of Alberto's team)  ;D

 :o
It is possible that an expansion card is placed incorrectly in the 50 pin socket.
This is because the Female 50pin socket is smaller than the Male connector of the expansion card.


Before inserting the expansion card into the AMSDAP or MX4 Motherboard, check whether it is placed in the middle


GFLOREZ has a smart solution for this.
do not use a Female 50pin socket but a 54 Pin.
This socket fits exactly in the Male connector.
However, you do not use the outer pins

@Prodatron what would be involved in making a specadap or specamsdap?  Spectrum version of amsdap for port based mx and msx cards?

For connecting MSX hardware to the Spectrum? I think the port range of the Spectrum is very limited.

Quote from: Prodatron on 22:28, 08 September 22For connecting MSX hardware to the Spectrum? I think the port range of the Spectrum is very limited.

For connecting cpc mx4 hardware and msx that uses ports.

Has anyone tried the Franky graphics card on CPC?  Would it work in an AMSDSP?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnsLWkhikUs

https://map.grauw.nl/resources/sound/franky-9.pdf

https://supersoniqs.com/

Franky PCBs available with build instructions here: https://shop.supersoniqs.com/en/msx-hardware/82-franky-pcb.html

Don't own this (only the successor called "PlaySonic"). Some SuperSoniqs hardware like the "Darky" double PSG card have problems, if the bus hasn't exactly the same clockrate like the MSX (~3,5MHz).
So I can't say, if Franky (Sega Master System graphic + sound) would work with the CPC and Amsdap. AFAIK it is using "switched" I/O, which would be ok on the CPC.

Quote from: Prodatron on 16:44, 22 May 23Don't own this (only the successor called "PlaySonic"). Some SuperSoniqs hardware like the "Darky" double PSG card have problems, if the bus hasn't exactly the same clockrate like the MSX (~3,5MHz).
So I can't say, if Franky (Sega Master System graphic + sound) would work with the CPC and Amsdap. AFAIK it is using "switched" I/O, which would be ok on the CPC.

I was thinking that PlaySonic might be cool but then it looks like the 16meg of RAM onboard likely uses MSX mappers which means at least that bit of the card is likely incompatible with CPC right?  For an MSX, do you think the PlaySonic is a must have card or would Symbiface 3 be better?  (I only have 2 slots, and 1 is GR8NET).   Do you have a list of MSX cards known to work on CPC so far?

Quote from: zhulien on 18:06, 22 May 23I was thinking that PlaySonic might be cool but then it looks like the 16meg of RAM onboard likely uses MSX mappers which means at least that bit of the card is likely incompatible with CPC right?

Yes, IIRC the PlaySonic has it's own internal "slot expander", so on the MSX it only works in a primary slot (like the GR8NET). I guess you can't use all features via normal I/O. I wonder if you can access its SID chip via I/O on the CPC as well, would be cool.

Quote from: zhulien on 18:06, 22 May 23For an MSX, do you think the PlaySonic is a must have card or would Symbiface 3 be better?  (I only have 2 slots, and 1 is GR8NET).

Never used a SYMBiFACE 3 with an MSX. Is there any software support for it? GR8NET is one of the best multipurpose hardware for the MSX anyway.

Quote from: zhulien on 18:06, 22 May 23Do you have a list of MSX cards known to work on CPC so far?

Tested:
Graphics9000 (+ Gfx-Nine, V9990 Powergraph, etc.)
MoonBlaster (+ OPL4 Shockwave, FM Blaster, and all the other OPL4 cards)
MP3MSX (+ SE-One)

Not tested:
most other MSX sound cards should work as well, as they are all I/O.

Franky is a very old VDP project that I have owned more than ten years ago.
Sure, it works fine connected to the CPC, like the MSX/MSX2 VDP do.
But, it will not benefit for the SymbOS usage (no high resolution).

Quote from: Prodatron on 20:41, 22 May 23most other MSX sound cards should work as well, as they are all I/O.

I am afraid, the Sound Module (Cartridge-Implementation by RBSC) SFG-01/SFG-05 will not work, because it uses memory-mapped I/O, rather than an I/O port ?

... not work because it uses memory-mapped I/O, rather than an I/O Port ?

What's the "Sound Module"?

If you are speaking about the "Music Module", which is officially called "MSX-Audio", this is I/O based (#xxC0, #xxC1) and could work with the Amsdap on a CPC as well.

I think @Mork is referring to this cartridge:   https://github.com/RBSC/SFG_Cartridge

" Yamaha SFG 05/01-S clone "
 
lI also have it connected to my MSX2.

Exactly.
It is also possible to connect the orignal SFG-01/SFG-05 via Adapter to the Amsdap.
You have to write to the adresses 3FF0H and 3FF1H to access the YM2151 OPM.
Maybe it would be possible to decode these memory adresses to CPC IO-adresses ?

Indeed the SFG-01/05 were memory mapped, when Yamaha used them in their CX-Models (MSX1 computers).
Didn't know that RB was/is producing them as a new catridge. The amount of different sound hardware for the MSX is just crazy, hard to keep an overview ???
It will require extra hardware to translate memory-mapped to I/O for the CPC, no idea how this can be done?

The Sony HBI-55 4K Bytes Data Cartridge works fine with the Amsdap.
:)

Quote from: Mork on 15:31, 17 November 23The Sony HBI-55 4K Bytes Data Cartridge works fine with the Amsdap.
:)

Cool, thanks for testing and sharing! :)

Ah yes, it is I/O based, using ports #B0-#B3 (http://map.grauw.nl/resources/hbi55.php) (#FFB0-#FFB3 on the CPC with Amsdap).

Did you already do something with it on the CPC?

Yes, I was able to read the content of the cartridge, formerly written to it with a Sony HitBit 75D. 
I used the information given here:
https://map.grauw.nl/resources/hbi55.php

I don't know the ports, but the Sega Master System Fm Sound Unit is IO-Port based:
https://etim.net.au/smsfm/smsfm.html

Soldered to the right pins - could it work with the Amsdap too?

Quote from: Mork on 12:42, 18 November 23I don't know the ports, but the Sega Master System Fm Sound Unit is IO-Port based:
https://etim.net.au/smsfm/smsfm.html

Soldered to the right pins - could it work with the Amsdap too?

It's not MSX hardware, so you would need another adapter between the MSX bus and the SMS bus. Or make an adapter directly to the CPC bus. If it's mostly a Z80-bus, it should work as well.

When reading about MSX and SMS of course I always have to think about the PlaySoniq (https://www.msx.org/wiki/SuperSoniqs_PlaySoniq) catridge, which should partially run with the Amsdap as well, at least its SID chip :D (ports #FF2A, #FF2B).
But I didn't try it so far, as I still have to get a correct cable for the Audio output.

Yes, therefore I meant to adapt the SMS-connections to the right MSX-pins, didn't noticed, that I could also use a direct CPC - connection.  :doh:
But maybe a MSX-adaption would be better, so the unit could also be used with an MSX-computer.
Just worrying if it's really that easy because I can't find any hint in the net that someone else tried this before.

Can I use my Android-Tablet Charger (5V + 9V) as a PSU for the Amsdap?

Yes, but only the +5v side.

The USB-standard should choose the right voltage, there are no different lines for 5v or 9v. 

Just adding here that the Multiface II (clone) is not compatible with AMSDAP. CPC does not boot with only that particular board fitted (works fine in standard MX4 board)
https://www.va-de-retro.com/foros/viewtopic.php?t=8102 (https://www.va-de-retro.com/foros/viewtopic.php?t=8102)

Quote from: darkhalf on 08:58, 04 January 24CPC does not boot with only that particular board fitted (works fine in standard MX4 board)
https://www.va-de-retro.com/foros/viewtopic.php?t=8102 (https://www.va-de-retro.com/foros/viewtopic.php?t=8102)

That's interesting, thanks for the hint.
Strange that it works with the MX4 but not with Amsdap.

Hmm, maybe address decoding issue. The x-mass also don't work properly. Reading out a sector for example provides 8-bit data and then 8-bit filled with zeros.

Indeed, I did the test yesterday : my CPC does not start if I plug my Multiface 2 clone into the AMSDAP.

Amsdap42  schematic link:

Amsdap42 circuit (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EgzXYFO_47ZXrxb52Ym3qjtNuphUKvZ1/view?usp=drive_link)

Received today  ;)

(https://cpcrulez.fr/im4/7/poulette73-img309.jpg)

Which cartridges will you use with your Amsdap ?

Soundcards like MSX Sunrise Moonsound, MSX WozBlaster Reloaded, and OPL4 compatible.

Graphic cards like MSX V9990 PowerGraph (Yamaha) from Tecnobytes.

And some others MSX still in developments.

https://cpcrulez.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&p=59690#p59588

Nice hardware all together. But software developers are not using them all too much sadly. Same is also true for CPC original expansions - in a lesser extent though. 

Time to support new hardware!  :) :) :)

Technobytes Brazil offers a new batch for a V9990 PowerGraph graphics card.

(https://cpcrulez.fr/im4/7/poulette73-Powerrev2.jpg)

This is the MSX version, therefore to be connected to an AMSDAP 4.2 card
The price with shipping is quite high $200... around 185€.
http://www.tecnobytes.com.br/

Quote from: poulette73 on 10:11, 09 February 24Technobytes Brazil offers a new batch for a V9990 PowerGraph graphics card.

Sold out like hotcakes! :'(

Quote from: dodogildo on 17:13, 13 February 24Sold out like hotcakes! :'(

Had to act quickly!!  :D  :D

Yeah there was a limited amount of the V9990 chips available. Another batch was sourced and the boards made. Total cost with shipping was very expensive.

QuoteBut software developers are not using them all too much sadly

Not enough people with that type of hardware. Cost is very prohibitive. For now its just symbos

Hi - I connected my new V9990 MSX Cartridge TRH9000 via AMSDAP to my CPC 6128. 
Everything looks fine but the keyboard doesn't respond anymore. 
What might be wrong? 

Interesting, I've never seen the TRH9000 connected to a CPC. Working with an older Version of an MSX V9990 card on the Amsdap no issues occur. Could you place a photo?

I tried it now with my CPC 6128 Plus and the keyboard works.
Might there be something wrong e.g. with the gate array of my 6128 ?
M4-Board works flawlessly with the 6128.

P. S.: how can I place a photo?

The M4 is also connected / attached on the AMSDAP?

Yes.
But the keyboard of the 6128 also doesn't work without the M4, only the TRH9000 being connected.

Did you build the card by yourself? Maybe a check of the soldering point would be worth?

No, it's a new cartridge from Brazil which works fine with a MSX-computer and also with the 6128 Plus but it blocks the keyboard of my 6128.
The AMSDAP was also not built by myself.

Do you have any other MSX card available to plug it into the socket?

Yes, two FM-Sound-cartridges and a memory-cartridge. I will try them tomorrow. 

Ok, so I checked all the other cards and they are causing no problems.
Only the TRH9000 blocks the keyboard. 
I run a V9990-Basic-program as an autoexec.bas from the M4 and it works flawlessly with the TRH9000 but I can't use the keyboard. 

Quote from: Mork on 17:20, 31 August 24Hi - I connected my new V9990 MSX Cartridge TRH9000 via AMSDAP to my CPC 6128.
Everything looks fine but the keyboard doesn't respond anymore.
What might be wrong?

I'm having the exact same problem with Amsdap since I received it. It makes my CPC unresponsible when used with a TRH9000 video card.
I tried Amsdap on my 6128 with two MSX cartridges (both from "The Retro Hacker") TRH9000 and Wozblaster Reloaded with no luck. Both cartridges work great with my MSX computers but never with Amsdap + CPC.

I decided my Amsdap is faulty and let it go.

I'm wondering what the Amsdap might disturb in the CPC. The keyboard is connected to the Soundchip and the PPI 8255 IO.

Surprising indeed.

I have 2 AMSDAP adapters :
- 1 original made by @Prodatron at the time of its creation.
- 1 other made by @gflorez in 2024.

Each of my 2 AMSDAP cards work perfectly with 1 MSX OPL4 WozBlaster Reloaded sound card, and 1 MSX V9990 PowerGraph graphic card.

All tested on two different CPC 6128 without any keyboard or other problem (1 AZERTY model in CRTC 1, and 1 AZERTY model in CRTC 4)  ;)

@dodogildo: Did you try the WozBlaster Reloaded also alone without the TRH9000 ?

Quote from: Mork on 09:03, 02 September 24@dodogildo: Did you try the WozBlaster Reloaded also alone without the TRH9000 ?

Yes I did. That time CPC didn't freeze. But SymbOS didn't recognize the WozBlaster Reloaded neither.
So, a summary:

A) Amsdap + TRH9000 = CPC freezes (unresponsible keyboard being just a symptom)
B) Amsdap + Wozblaster Reloaded = CPC works but the Wozblaster Reloaded remains invisible. 

PS. Maybe I needed a special version of SymbOS to work with the setup B. But by that point I was so tired of dealing with Amsdap so I gave up. I didn't look into it any further.

My config in 512x212 and 16 colors :

(https://cpcrulez.fr/im4/7/poulette73-img301.jpg)

(https://cpcrulez.fr/im4/7/poulette73-img302.jpg)

(https://cpcrulez.fr/im4/7/poulette73-img303.jpg)

(https://cpcrulez.fr/im4/7/poulette73-img304.jpg)

(https://cpcrulez.fr/im4/7/poulette73-img305.jpg)

And a video with demo games like "Flappy Bird" and "Robot in Forest" :

So it looks like that Tecnobytes uses a deviant design with their TRH9000 that causes a blocked keyboard using a CPC6128.
Using a CPC6128 Plus I don´t have the problem, so what is the difference between these 2 devices concerning the expansion port and the keyboard ?

Quote from: Mork on 10:46, 02 September 24So it looks like that Tecnobytes uses a deviant design with their TRH9000 that causes a blocked keyboard using a CPC6128.
Using a CPC6128 Plus I don´t have the problem, so what is the difference between these 2 devices concerning the expansion port and the keyboard ?

TRH9000 is made by The Retro Hacker not by Tecnobytes.
And, not only the keyboard but also the CPC itself freezes.

Quote from: dodogildo on 13:06, 02 September 24TRH9000 is made by The Retro Hacker not by Tecnobytes.
And, not only the keyboard but also the CPC itself freezes.

Ok ok, sorry I misunderstood.
Sorry for my off-topic with Tecnobytes.  ;)

Ok, but my CPC don´t freezes completely.
I was able to run a V9990-Basic-program via autoexec.bas from the M4-Board and I see the correct result on the TRH9000-Monitor.
So the CPC works, only the keyboard is blocked.

@Mork can you share the program and describe what you did, pls. I'm gonna try it when I have the chance.

I initialized screen B3 in BP6-mode, defined some colors, set the border to black and drew a blue painted rectangle.
All via Basic-Out-commands.
How can I place pictures here?

You can also try my adaption of a MSX V9990 demo for the CPC? P1 mode with sprites and background.
https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?msg=241884

Quote from: HAL6128 on 17:09, 02 September 24You can also try my adaption of a MSX V9990 demo for the CPC? P1 mode with sprites and background.
https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?msg=241884

I didn't know this demo, fantastic!!! :o

Quote from: HAL6128 on 17:09, 02 September 24You can also try my adaption of a MSX V9990 demo for the CPC? P1 mode with sprites and background.
https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?msg=241884

How can I launch this automatically (via M4 for instance) once the CPC is turned on? 
Because my CPC gets unresponsive with Amsdap+TRH9000 connected and I can't run any tests manually..

You can create an autoexec.bas file to run the file "0.bas" without any keyboard input. Just look into the M4info.txt documentation on Dukes website.

Quote from: HAL6128 on 18:43, 01 September 24I'm wondering what the Amsdap might disturb in the CPC. The keyboard is connected to the Soundchip and the PPI 8255 IO.

Indeed, how is it possible, that the expansion bus is blocking the keyboard? Can it disturb the PPI?
Is sound still working?

Seems that the TRH9000 is a version of the V9990 MSX card, which has something different compared to the previous ones.

My humble assumption is that the cartridge is not doing correctly the ports decoding. I will try to talk with the creator.

Quote from: gflorez on 13:31, 03 September 24My humble assumption is that the cartridge is not doing correctly the ports decoding. I will try to talk with the creator.

Thanks!
With Amsdap only the range between #ff00 and #ffff should be decoded, no matter what the MSX cards are really doing. From my understanding that should make it impossible to disturb the PPI or so. But I am not a hardware guy.

TRH9000 is an open-source video card: https://github.com/cristianoag/trh9000

Quote from: dodogildo on 15:40, 03 September 24TRH9000 is an open-source video card: https://github.com/cristianoag/trh9000

How do you aquire the main chip?

theretrohacker.com also sells the chip only.

@Prodatron: sound works partly. I can play tunes via the sound-command but they don't stop after the given time. Only one tune per channel is possible, a second one is ignored while the first keeps on playing.

On the 6128 Plus everything works fine.

 Translator
 
 
I have read the TRH9000 Kicad files and I have found it uses an alternative method to detect a port access with /IORQ and /M1,  instead of /IORQ, /RD and /WR, maybe to save some circuitry.    /M1 is a signal that marks when the Z80 is reading the next instruction from memory, but it is tricky because the Z80 uses /IORQ and /M1 both active to know when it is on interrupt status.

What I think is happening: The 74LS245 on the Amsdap(the same use on every MSX2) is a tristate buffer that controls when the cartridge is accessed, this is, every time a port is accessed(decoded), on read or write mode, the 74LS245 acts like an open window(/Busdir signal is active) , closing when there is no access.( /Busdir signal inactive)   I think that decoding ports with /M1 forces the 74LS245 to open on some unwanted moments, not importan on a MSX but probably tricky on a CPC. On the other side, the V9990 has its data bus floating, it can have any value on it when not in use. If the 74LS245 opens when the Z80 is accessing the data bus, the content can be corrupted with the V9990 data bus garbage, fooling the Z80.

I may be wrong in this, so I have asked some wise men.

 Translator
 
 
About the Wozblaster Reloaded not detected, is it based on a real OPL4 placed on the same ports than the Moonsound?

It is probably working, but some information is needed on how access it.

Interesting!
Any idea why this doesn't seem to affect a CPC Plus model?

I have just bought a TRH9000(OUCH!)... Now I can test the real hardware in my computers. Effectively, it works flawless on my 6128+, but I have no other CPC to test. On my Enterprise it doesn't work at all, I only can see some blinks on the screen when I run SymbOS.

What I have seen until now: For me it is still a problem on the ports decodification. Cristiano has used HC series chips on the port decodification stage, while the recommended series for these computers is LS or HCT, that work on TTL level (+5v). It seems this causes no problem on a 90s computer, but impedes the communication with middle 80s computers.

What I will do next is to exchange the two HC series chips involved with the correspondent 74LS32 and 74LS138, and then do more tests. I own a GFX-NINE, other V9998 clone that has the same logic with HCT series chips and works perfectly on my Enterprise.

Something is really strange with the last TRH9000 version...
Gustavo, thanks a lot for examining it!

Quote from: Prodatron on 21:44, 11 November 24Something is really strange with the last TRH9000 version...

The old TRH9000 version has similar problems with Amsdap.

I have already tested the TRH9000 with two LS series chips.... and it works on my Enterprise!

So,  the solution could be "very easy": exchange these HC chips with the HCT or LS compatible series and it will work. The chips are on the back side of the PCB, marked as U1(74HC138) and U2(74HC32).

It is very annoying for me not be able to put a direct picture file here of what I have done and the results, sorry.

It only rest me to make the final test, trying the cartridge on a classic CPC. I will borrow one from a friend.

Quote from: gflorez on 01:21, 12 November 24It is very annoying for me not be able to put a direct picture file here of what I have done and the results, sorry.

because you don't have taken a picture or because the "quick reply" doesn't offer a way to attach pictures? If it's the latter, two options to solve it: 
1) in quick reply click "preview" - then there is a drop-zone to add attachments and pictures
2) instead of a quick reply use the "Reply" button - which opens the full editor including dropzone. 

Quote from: gflorez on 01:21, 12 November 24I have already tested the TRH9000 with two LS series chips.... and it works on my Enterprise!

And does it still works with the MSX?  :-X

I can try it with my Philips NMS8280(MSX2) and a Zemmix Neo(FPGA clone), probably this night.

Think that the most compatible chip series is LS, the ones universally used on the 80s for our loved machines.

Better I can make a picture of every machine working with the TRH9000, if you like. About 5 of them, counting the Enterprise, CPC 6128+ and Amstrad PCW

This is the 6128+ running the FlappyBird demo inside SymbOS

This one is the Enterprise running SymbOS g9k

Now follow images of MSX+TRH9000, some on real hardware and others on Zemmix.

More.

These pictures with two screens are from a demo showing that is possible to move the normal and the V9990 screens at the same time:

http://ni.10-59.com/zip/2sc.zip

The full video from the creator(NOT MINE):  https://youtu.be/iKak6Yl58AI


More V9990 demos from the same author:  https://ni.x0.com/msx/

@gflorez thank you!

The TRH9000 is not recognised on my PCW, so the next experiment will be to mount HCT chips.

@gflorez: Well done, excellent work!
How do you connect the TRH9000 to an Amstrad PCW? 
Does it offer the same expansion port like a CPC or exists a special AMSDAP version for the PCW? 

Quote from: Mork on 23:43, 29 November 24@gflorez: Well done, excellent work!
How do you connect the TRH9000 to an Amstrad PCW?
Does it offer the same expansion port like a CPC or exists a special AMSDAP version for the PCW?

They are similiar but not pin compatible, so you have to swap some wires:
https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Amstrad_PCW_Expansion_Port
https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/Connector:Expansion_port

Gflorez made a PCW-version of the AMSDAP some years ago, the previous GFX9000 cards were already working there.

And is it the same Port number on the PCW?
I am asking because I also thought of connecting it to a ZX Spectrum and it's not quite clear to me, whether the ports are defined by the AMSDAP.

Yes, the AMSDAP usually has to remap the MSX-based port numbers of the connected hardware.

The MSX ports #00-#ff are maped to...
- CPC: #FFxx
- PCW: #xxB0 (that was a great idea by Habi IIRC)
- Enterprise: #xx (not remaped; we had good luck that there are no collisions with V9990/OPL4)

Regarding the ZX Spectrum I wonder if there is still a free slot for mapping 256 port addresses (the ZX ports are a quite complex thing...) If not you have to search for some free areas, where at least the V9990 or the OPL4 ports won't collide with something existing.

But how would I map the ports if I could find some free once? 

Quote from: Prodatron on 11:40, 30 November 24Regarding the ZX Spectrum I wonder if there is still a free slot for mapping 256 port addresses (the ZX ports are a quite complex thing...) If not you have to search for some free areas, where at least the V9990 or the OPL4 ports won't collide with something existing.

The Speccy has pretty much no ports that won't collide with something at this point So it's mostly a case of choosing the least worst collision. Absolutely zero chance of finding 256 free ports though, so you'd need some more complex circuitry in order to multiplex requests into a much smaller range.

I think that the solution to interface a MSX slot on a Spectrum would be to use a port no more used by an obsolete device.

I have some candidates....

The problem is that even the Spectrum architecture itself lacks complete decoding of the ports, instead using individual bits of the address bus to interact with some of its insides. The third party expansions added a lot more confusion, leaving a web of mirror ports that cannot be used.

For example, the ULA "eats" all the pair ports because uses the bit 1 of the address bus for itself. This means that we have lost half of the possible free ports....

Even the ubiquitous Kempston joystick interface produces mirror ports= ---- ---- 000- ---- because only bits 5, 6 and 7  are used for the decoding, (is read by default on port 31d(1Fh, 000111111b) by the programmers) so you also could use ports 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 21, 23, 25, 27, 29..., or you could use other value than 0 on the high byte as long as you leave bits 5, 6 and 7 unset.... Of course, you can't do that because some other peripheral will use some of these floating bits....

Sorry, I mean that the ULA takes for itself the first bit on the address bus, this is bit 0....

@gflorez: Are the HC series chips on the TRH9000 DIP or SMD versions?

They are SMD. I had better results with LS than with HCT, but not on all my machines, so the next experiment will be to change the logic to exactly the same than the GFX-NINE, that works on all my equipments.

I have consulted to some of my friends. Maybe that /RD cannot be accessed so many times(2), when some other expansion is also accessing it.

Hello, as some of you may remember, I previously claimed my AMSDAP might be faulty because it didn't work with TRH9000 graphic card.
Well I finally acquired Technobyte's V9990 Powergraph Lite and it turned out my previous claim was wrong. AMSDAP worked flawlessly this time (kudos to @gflorez who built the board). Just tested it with @HAL6128's impressive demo (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?msg=241884)

Here:

(https://i.ibb.co/vJ1Tp0M/IMG-2649.jpg) (https://ibb.co/nDrY9xK)

I still have no time to sit a moment and modify my TRH9000, sorry...

BTW I can't seem to run Symbos properly on my AMSDAP + V9000 setup. Trying the SymbOS-CPC-G9K folder from the official distribution package but having errors. @Prodatron, may be you can help me figuring this out  :o  -many thanks

(https://i.ibb.co/sPXqYSR/IMG-2650.jpg) (https://ibb.co/7z0KmcC)

Hello,

Check that symbos.ini/symg9k.ini files have to be placed always in root directory (but extended config files symbosxt.ini/symbg9xt.ini are in C:/SYMBOS directory).
Launch O/S with RUN"SYMG9K (instead of RUN"SYM)

[EDIT]
Check too in Control Panel->System, if Boot drive is set to "C" and System Path to "C:\symbos\"

@dodogildo , from which device did you boot it? (at least it's running in G9K mode)
@poulette73 , thanks for the support!

Quote from: poulette73 on 18:50, 08 January 25Hello,

Check that symbos.ini/symg9k.ini files have to be placed always in root directory (but extended config files symbosxt.ini/symbg9xt.ini are in C:/SYMBOS directory).
Launch O/S with RUN"SYMG9K (instead of RUN"SYM)

[EDIT]
Check too in Control Panel->System, if Boot drive is set to "C" and System Path to "C:\symbos\"

Well, I'm only using below files from (SymbOS-CPC-G9K) folder downloaded from http://www.symbos.de/download.htm
So, no C:/SYMBOS folder etc..

(https://i.ibb.co/4fjjGHH/Screenshot-2025-01-09-at-18-53-09.png) (https://ibb.co/Db77yZZ)

Quote from: Prodatron on 23:27, 08 January 25dodogildo (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/profile/?u=1547) , from which device did you boot it? (at least it's running in G9K mode)

Both on RSF3 and M4.
Yes it runs but when I click on any application (for example Control Panel) It show error code 26

Do you see you the content of the M4 SD card, if you click...
Startmenu -> Run -> Browse
?
It seems, that you didn't copy the /SYMBOS folder and the SYMBOS.INI / SYMG9K.INI file to the SD card?

Quote from: dodogildo on 16:56, 09 January 25Well, I'm only using below files from (SymbOS-CPC-G9K) folder downloaded from http://www.symbos.de/download.htm
So, no C:/SYMBOS folder etc..

(https://i.ibb.co/4fjjGHH/Screenshot-2025-01-09-at-18-53-09.png) (https://ibb.co/Db77yZZ)

OK, good with this, so you can use RUN"SYM to start Operarting System.

But.. you need both to unzip "SymbOS-CPC-MassStorage.zip" to use and run SymbOS on RSF3/M4 storage...
Because you need C:/SYMBOS folder and contents too.. (apps, games, settings, etc).

Quote from: poulette73 on 20:11, 09 January 25But.. you need both to unzip "SymbOS-CPC-MassStorage.zip" to use and run SymbOS on RSF3/M4 storage...
Because you need C:/SYMBOS folder and contents too.. (apps, games, settings, etc).

I also tried this but it didn't work either unless I duplicated SYMBOS.INI and renamed it to SYMG9K.INI,
Now I'm seeing progress, thanks to @Prodatron and your help. Here:

(https://i.ibb.co/nbs7DTS/IMG-2651.jpg) (https://ibb.co/9N9bqJj)

BTW, there are some ugly lines above icon labels, I don't know why.

Ops, I just recognized, that the V9990 version is not included in the full pre-installed package of the 3.1 release.

Hope to be able to release 4.0 end of this month, that will fix this.

As you copied the SYMBOS.INI to SYMG9K.INI you will have some weird settings for the 16 colour mode of the V9990. You can fix these with the control panel, but maybe it's more easy to get an original SYMG9K.INI from someone with a full installation. I will see, if I can make another package during the next days, or maybe someone else can make a ZIP?

@dodogildo : try this zip  ;)

Extract the 3 files (SYMG9K , SYMG9K.INI , SYMG9K.BIN) in root directory.
Then start SymbOS with RUN"SYMG9K" command.

Tell us if it's good, if you see SymbOS on second monitor connected with V9990 card.

Quote from: poulette73 on 21:16, 09 January 25Extract the 3 files (SYMG9K , SYMG9K.INI , SYMG9K.BIN) in root directory.

Yes it worked- Thank you! 

Now I'm looking fwd for the next version of SymbOS, with all its G9K parts intact in a complete package, hihi  :P

Glad to hear !! Congratulations  8)

Great news, @dodogildo ! :)
Thanks a lot for your help, @poulette73 !

At last I had some time and  the aim to open again the TRH9000.

I have modified the logic to work exactly the same than the GFX-NINE one............. with exactly the same results.....

But then I have thought: if..... if it is only a matter of voltage levels?... because every computer I use have a different PSU , and the TRH900 works on ones but not on others.

And effectively, it seems that the TRH9000 works perfectly with 5,52 volts from the PSU I have for the CPC 6128+(Regulated MeanWell), but not with the common 5,02 volts that give some other PSUs. I don't know the exact level when it starts to work, but I imagine that about >5,1 volts.

So suddenly, mystery solved. And easy to be fixed.

Hmm that's curious because I just tried with 6v on CPC 6128 but TRH9000 didn't kick in.

I don't feel like reversing the modifications done to test the issue....

1- Removed HC chips for LS chips
2- Removed LS chips for HCT chips
3- Rearranged the logic to mimic Sunrise way.

And yesterday I shortened the two inductors on the power lines(digital/analogic) as a desperate try...

On the other side..... 6v is a very risky level, I think.

Maybe later I will do a test to exactly measure the threshold voltage where the cartridge starts to be detected on my PCW or on my 6128+.

This time, with enough tests done, I can say that the PSU and voltage level and blah blah blah had nothing to do with the issue.

Now you can spit, ridicule and laugh at me....

This has happened to me before, I am excessively confident with the EDGE connectors, while they are almost all times the guilty ones, like the butler....

Today I have started to power the TRH9000 from 5v upwards, but arriving to 5,52v and beyond  it still was refusing to react and prove that my latest theory was right....

Inexplicable... Then I have disconnected an re-connected every plug in the adapter and it has started to gloriously work...

Guess what? Then I slowly have returned to 5v and it has endured steadily.

So I have wasted more than a month thinking on why the HCT chips didn't work.

Sorry, sorry, sorry.

Just in case any of you or your handyman friend dare to make the modifications, I will put here some recommendations.

Localise the 74HC138 and 74HC32 on the PCB. My TRH9000 version is v1.7, the one with SVideo and composite connectors at the side of the Dsub 15 pin connector. The chips are at the rear side, very near to the EDGE connector. I have seen pictures of other versions, and on all of them the chips are at the back side, but on different places.

Better destroy the two chips than damage the valuable PCB. Cut carefully all the legs while securely fasten the chip with a finger. The legs can then be easily removed one by one once the encapsulation is out of the PCB.

Once the two footprints are clean of surplus tin, put the new HCT chips on place(pay attention to the position of the dot or the stripe on the chips and their footprints) and try to solder two diagonal legs before continue. If you are not satisfied with the position you always can melt the tin on one leg and turn slightly the chip. The best results are using a fine point iron and 0,5mm tin.

Then continue soldering each individual leg with care to not touch the adjacent ones or add excessive tin. It is matter of rhythm and short touches, because you don't want to add excessive heat to the leg and damage the track or the chip itself...

In the case that two legs get joined by the tin, not all is lost. There are specialised tin suckers or cooper soldering mesh to remove the tin. But again remember, don't add excessive heat to the legs.

Maybe you also want to make the modification in the logic. At this moment I can't say if it was necessary or not... but is while you install the 74HCT32 chip when it is very easy to be done.

Just to re-assure, I don't know if all the TRH9000 versions use the chip 74HCT32 exactly the same, but we can check that. Look again at the TRH9000 schematics:

(https://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/dlattach/?attach=43866;image)

Put your tester in continuity mode and check in the 74HC32 footprint if pins 1-13 and 2-12 give continuity. Use this real pin-out instead:

(https://www.electrocomponentes.es/9840-home_default/74ls32-4-puertas-or-dos-entradas-logicas-circuito-integrado-7432.jpg)
If there is a match, before soldering the 74HTC32 chip, slightly bend up pins 12 and 13 together and leave them unsoldered. Solder all the rest of the legs like is explained above. Then prepare a short wire, and solder it from pin 3 to lifted pins 12 and 13 joined. 

Pins 12 and 13 must not touch their footprints on the PCB.