I am quite happy today! I managed to find and buy this guy for 7.50 pounds, although it was listed as "for parts or not working". However, it should not be very difficult to bring it back to life and restore the little guy, cosmetically at least everything is in good condition. I will start having a look when I have time, let´s see what is wrong with it. As usual, I will try to document everything significant just in case is useful for somebody else :)
[attachimg=1]
Waiting for the results ;D
Not a lot of time during the next days but oh well... what can I do :)
had mine since new, it lives in a box someplace, loadsa fun drawing stuff with the standard software back in the day
Oddly I remember mine being black with 3 orange buttons and a more slick design, guess there most have been different versions, or I just suffer from bad memory :)
Quote from: Lazy Dude on 17:16, 23 June 16
had mine since new, it lives in a box someplace, loadsa fun drawing stuff with the standard software back in the day
There were at least 3 different versions, yes, and one was definitely black :D
I remember it being a big deal back then if you could say you had a mouse for your home computer.
Nowadays they are more disposable than toilet paper!
Well, CPC mouse are still useful indeed !!!! thanks to FutureOS and SymbOS !!!
By the Way, i must have some "Bryce"-USB-Mouse Adapters in stock in case someone is interested.
Definitely interested in one of the adapters, if you have them :D
Well i have little stock
Here are the pics
(http://i.imgur.com/VPdia3Am.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/JGkxFirm.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/8SQ9fCXm.jpg)
For price 20€ and postage with tracking are 5,50€ to EU , and 2€ to France .
So yes, I will take one! Can you send me the Paypal address by PM? :D
Thank you! :-*
Already paid! This is great because it opens the possibility of using a wireless mouse, something very needed if your space is tight ;D
@talrek (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1195): I will take one too :). Send me the PayPal address by PM, please.
Quote from: ||C|-|E|| on 15:54, 03 July 16
Already paid! This is great because it opens the possibility of using a wireless mouse, something very needed if your space is tight ;D
No, unfortunately not. The USB host that I crammed into 4K of PIC RAM doesn't go as far as recognising wireless mice. You can only fit so much into 4K of assembly language.
Bryce.
Aaaah... :-X anyway, It is great to have one because I have a much wider range of mice to try :)
Some wired mice won't work either. The reason for this is that the AMX mouse adaptor sends a signal to the mouse to revert to PS/2 mode. Most USB mice will do this, but some mice (usually high res gaming mice) don't have this functionality and don't respond. When that happens my adaptor will flash the status LED once per second to tell you that the mouse didn't initialise correctly.
Bryce.
Yup, I knew about that from the article in the Wiki :) It should not be a problem considering than I am going to use, most likely, an old Logitech mouse :)
Quote from: ||C|-|E|| on 23:06, 03 July 16
Yup, I knew about that from the article in the Wiki :) It should not be a problem considering than I am going to use, most likely, an old Logitech mouse :)
When i first tried the adaptor some times ago, i didn't have any compatible mice, they were too "modern" ;-)
So i bought a fantastic chinese low-cost mouse, and guess what ? It worked :laugh:
Thanks to Bryce's adapter, you will save your money 8)
Yay! for Chinese crap! :)
Bryce.
Instead of the Chinese crappy ones, I think I will go for this Logitech:
Logitech 910-000185 - RX250 White mouse - Corded: USB + PS/2 - Warranty: 2Y | (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Logitech-910-000185-RX250-White-mouse-Corded-USB-PS-2-Warranty-2Y-/351522351766?hash=item51d85d6a96:g:jPQAAOSwKIpV~4k1)
Classical mouse, PS/2 compatible... and white, like the Plus ;D I just need to see if I find it cheaper somewhere.
P.D: Found it!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-RX250-Optical-Mouse-Grey/dp/B000RAGOQM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1467651007&sr=8-2&keywords=logitech+RX250 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-RX250-Optical-Mouse-Grey/dp/B000RAGOQM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1467651007&sr=8-2&keywords=logitech+RX250)
:D
Quote from: ||C|-|E|| on 17:49, 04 July 16
Instead of the Chinese crappy ones, I think I will go for this Logitech:
Logitech 910-000185 - RX250 White mouse - Corded: USB + PS/2 - Warranty: 2Y | (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Logitech-910-000185-RX250-White-mouse-Corded-USB-PS-2-Warranty-2Y-/351522351766?hash=item51d85d6a96:g:jPQAAOSwKIpV%7E4k1)
Classical mouse, PS/2 compatible... and white, like the Plus ;D I just need to see if I find it cheaper somewhere.
P.D: Found it!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-RX250-Optical-Mouse-Grey/dp/B000RAGOQM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1467651007&sr=8-2&keywords=logitech+RX250 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-RX250-Optical-Mouse-Grey/dp/B000RAGOQM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1467651007&sr=8-2&keywords=logitech+RX250)
:D
Yup, that should be perfect.
Bryce.
I only need to change the logo :laugh:
Logitech = quality...
Not required to change the logo as it is a 3rd party doing things for all systems.
That is actually a very valid point of view too :D
I received the board today! It looks great! :D Thank you! :-*
Quote from: TotO on 06:38, 05 July 16
Logitech = quality...
Sadly not for the mouse I bought. The button switches can't hold a signal, so I can't drag and drop any longer. Well, if I press it like crazy it works for a second, but that's disappointing for an expensive mouse. Their button switches could be better.
I have used Logitech since the longest time and I always end replacing the mice because of the switches, as you say. However, it usually takes me quite a lot years of continuous use to break one, I would say that around 5. When this happens, the mouse is very old and I never feel like replacing the switches for new ones ;D
Quote from: talrek on 09:54, 03 July 16
Well i have little stock
Here are the pics
(http://i.imgur.com/VPdia3Am.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/JGkxFirm.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/8SQ9fCXm.jpg)
For price 20€ and postage with tracking are 5,50€ to EU , and 2€ to France .
I'm interested in your device if you still have some. What's the voltage needed / tolerance for it? I'm thinking of using a pair of batteries with it instead of having yet another power cable running on the desk.
Hi sorry for the late answer. Voltage is 5v (same from screen).
You have to plug in the 5V CPC power cable, and then plug in the power cable from the adpter to the CPC.
I'm not sure if using external battery is a good idea, since 5V should take a lot of space... The device doesn't required and extra power supply, it only takes power from the CPC.
I was playing Orion Prime with the Logitech mouse and Bryce´s adapter and is simply amazing :) It feels like an Amiga point and click! :D
Quote from: khaz on 20:42, 08 July 16
I'm interested in your device if you still have some. What's the voltage needed / tolerance for it? I'm thinking of using a pair of batteries with it instead of having yet another power cable running on the desk.
The circuit needs a regulated 5V supply, as the circuit doesn't include its own regulation. It will work between 4.8V and 5.2V, but it would stop working with anything below 4.8V, and more importantly, anthing above 5.2V would most likely destroy it, so it's really not made for batteries.
The simplest way to power it is by using the CPC power supply with a "Y" cable or a flylead from the adapter to the CPC.
@||C|-|E|| (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1447): Glad you like it.
Bryce.
It is actually very cool, yes :) You need to get used to how sensitive it is with an optic mouse but it is easy enough to handle it. I still did not finish with the original AMX mouse, when it is ready I will be able to compare them.
The sensitivity is actually configurable by tweaking the firmware. If it's too sensitive you could always try a less sensitive setting.
Bryce.
Yup, but I would need to program it again. Two problems for this: I do not have a programmer, although I could build one following your instructions, and I would need to desolder the pic in the board and install a socket, although this would be simple as well. Maybe I can try when I have some time! :)
Yes my fault ;-) I soldered the pic... I didn't have enough sockets :picard2:
I never tried, Orion Prime, i don't own it... Too bad i should have buy it.
Desoldering it is easy enough, but is it heat sensitive? If that is the case, there is a chance I will need to replace it with a new one :)
Sadly, I do not own an original copy of Orion Prime either, but it works very well (and silently) from my HxC :D
You don't need to desolder the PIC, it can be programmed in-circuit, you'd just need to solder connections to make a temporary ISP port. But you'd still need to make a small programmer (or buy one).
Bryce.
The thing is that if I make a programmer with a little socket, that seems very nice, I almost prefer to put a socket as well in the mouse adapter. It seems that it would facilitate the things if multiple adjustments are necessary. Even if the PIC dies in the process it would not be a big disaster, considering the price of a blank one :) First I will repair once and for all the AMX to compare both :D
P.D: The programmer is so cheap that I will probably buy one ::)
K150 ICSP Programmer with USB Cable PIC DIP ZIF Flux Workshop | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/K150-ICSP-Programmer-with-USB-Cable-PIC-DIP-ZIF-Flux-Workshop-/111643071396?hash=item19fe7213a4:g:vJ8AAOSwBLlVJ451)
Well if you are going to buy something, then I'd recommend this: PICkit2 PIC KIT2 debugger programmer for dsPIC PIC32 PIC24+Logifind adapter - UK (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PICkit2-PIC-KIT2-debugger-programmer-for-dsPIC-PIC32-PIC24-Logifind-adapter-UK-/272114170848?var=&hash=item3f5b44bbe0:m:mCuuMZwIzl3K50K92KZbRVw)
This can be used for in-circuit programming or socketed programming.
Bryce.
Looks very nice! I will order this one then :)
@talrek (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1195)
Shipment arrived safely. Thanks a lot :).
Quote from: hsimpson on 06:59, 13 July 16
@talrek (http://www.cpcwiki.eu/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1195)
Shipment arrived safely. Thanks a lot :).
You're welcome ;-)
OK, I finally finished with the poor AMX mouse :) It was quite wasted: the cable was cut and I had to redo the connector in the mouse side; one the ICs (the line driver) was not OK and, finally, the plastic case had little cracks inside and had to be reinforced. Overall it was quite a lot of work for such a simple device, partially because I repaired it in the worst possible way: changing all the ICs, even those that were OK. This happened because at first I was lacking a proper tool to test them and finally, when Bryce´s function generator arrived, I did not come up with the proper idea to test the two remaining original ICs. Oh well, the good news is that is everything is socketed now. Finally, I replaced the caps too. No real need for this but what the heck, I already had new ones around.
So, these are the new connectors:
[attachimg=1]
And these the socketed boards with the new caps:
[attachimg=2]
[attachimg=3]
Here are a couple of pictures of the case. I reinforced it with epoxy and, in the case of the pillars, some thermoretractable plastic as well. The cracks appeared in the regions with the screws and the points of pressure of the ball. Everything should be future-proof now :)
[attachimg=4]
[attachimg=5]
This is how it looked just before finishing the assembly:
[attachimg=6]
[attachimg=7]
And finally, after a deep cleaning and some detailing, the final result:
[attachimg=8]
It looks nice and works well, although I must confess that is slow for my taste. In this regard, Bryce´s adapter in combination with an optical mouse is a much neater and efficient approach. Having the AMX is useful anyway, it allows direct comparison with the adapter and it is useful for software tweaking. Moreover, it was fun to repair it :)
Has anyone ever used the mouse with Carrier Command? I think that game is amazing and would love to indulge in a mouse if it actually worked to reasonable level in this game.
That's a very fine job!
I appreciate the effort of repairing old hardware as it's a labour of love and it'a fun.
Thanks for sharing it!
Quote from: robcfg on 12:25, 16 July 16
That's a very fine job!
I appreciate the effort of repairing old hardware as it's a labour of love and it'a fun.
Thanks for sharing it!
Aye, I agree :)
Mark
Glad you like it guys! :)
Quote from: Puresox on 00:22, 16 July 16
Has anyone ever used the mouse with Carrier Command? I think that game is amazing and would love to indulge in a mouse if it actually worked to reasonable level in this game.
I can try the game tonight, it should work very well :) I am using the adapter with an optical Logitech and it is great to control that type of games (Bloodwitch, Iron Lord...) or programs with menus that you would traditionally navigate using with the arrows or the joystick. For classical arcades, a pad still seems the best option.
Thanks It would be such an impressive game if the Mouse works well with it.^^^
Quote from: ||C|-|E|| on 14:02, 16 July 16
Glad you like it guys! :)
I can try the game tonight, it should work very well :) I am using the adapter with an optical Logitech and it is great to control that type of games (Bloodwitch, Iron Lord...) or programs with menus that you would traditionally navigate using with the arrows or the joystick. For classical arcades, a pad still seems the best option.
You can use with those games too ! Wow . Do you have a You Tube channel? :D
Really nice project btw. Quite satisfying results . Good for you
These are the first internal shots of an AMX I have seen on the web, an a tidy repair job.
Kind of surprised there wasn't more fluff n crap inside though, not that we wish to see pics of 30 year old hair n fluff. I have seen mice half that age in really shitty condition.
Just be glad that I have never taken pictures of the mouse used with the company computer used by about 20 staff! :o
Or the keyboard for that matter :o
And when I got a track-ball for my Atari ST, wow, it collects more err, stuff than the Atari mouse did :o
Youngsters who have only used ball-less mice just don't know what they have missed :laugh:
Mark
Actually it was clean inside :) I think that it did not have much use at all but it was probably thrown somewhere. Talking about this with Bryce he found very strange that both the cable and a IC were not OK. He suggested that it was probably in a box, with many other things, and probably somebody took it from there pulling the mouse and breaking the cable. Then, it could have easily been that they tried to connect it to another machine frying the IC in the process :-X
So, I made a little and very crappy video showing how the adapter with my Logitech mouse works with some games. The quality is atrocious but, as you can see, there are no problems when playing :)
I really like your video !!! it's great !
Superb , thanks for making the video demo. I am impressed with how well it works . I am going to have to read this thread thoroughly now,Intrigued at getting something sorted.
Quote from: talrek on 18:02, 02 July 16
Well, CPC mouse are still useful indeed !!!! thanks to FutureOS and SymbOS !!!
By the Way, i must have some "Bryce"-USB-Mouse Adapters in stock in case someone is interested.
Do you still have one of those adapters? I'm interested! Please, send me a PM if you have someone. ::)
Quote from: ||C|-|E|| on 00:53, 17 July 16
So, I made a little and very crappy video showing how the adapter with my Logitech mouse works with some games. The quality is atrocious but, as you can see, there are no problems when playing :)
Thanks for the Video! It's great. :) How does the mouse work with Symbos and FutureOS? Anybody had some experiences?
P.S.: This was my post #10.000. :-\ :laugh: :)
Quote from: TFM on 15:43, 20 September 16
Thanks for the Video! It's great. :) How does the mouse work with Symbos and FutureOS? Anybody had some experiences?
I tested the mouse on both FutureOS and SymbOS back when I developed it. Both are very easy to use and accurate when it comes to menus / buttons etc.
Bryce.
Quote from: Bryce on 08:24, 21 September 16
I tested the mouse on both FutureOS and SymbOS back when I developed it. Both are very easy to use and accurate when it comes to menus / buttons etc.
Bryce.
Thanks for letting me know. Rennert uses this mouse adapter and his opinion is that it works very well with Symbos, but way too slow in FutureOS. However I would have serious problems to adapt my desktop manager, since in the corresponging ROM there are only 4 bytes free. :-X
Sorry guys, I am not at home these days, but in my hands the adaptor works well with both operating systems :) the original AMX is very usable as well but slower :)
Where is that Like button when i need it?
Quote from: MissionComplete on 12:01, 20 September 16
Do you still have one of those adapters? I'm interested! Please, send me a PM if you have someone. ::)
Sorry i don't have left, i'm assembling a new batch of MF2 clones.
Then may be i'll build a new batch of 10 pieces if there are enough people interrested...
Quote from: talrek on 08:59, 22 September 16
Sorry i don't have left, i'm assembling a new batch of MF2 clones.
Then may be i'll build a new batch of 10 pieces if there are enough people interrested...
No news for a new batch? :o
Hi,
i'm going to launch a new batch assembly.
I should have some interfaces available in 4-6 weeks
Quote from: talrek on 11:43, 20 November 16
Hi,
i'm going to launch a new batch assembly.
I should have some interfaces available in 4-6 weeks
Bertrand.
Hi Bertrand, please put me down for one. PM me payment details.
Thanks Wayne.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: talrek on 11:43, 20 November 16
Hi,
i'm going to launch a new batch assembly.
I should have some interfaces available in 4-6 weeks
:D Thanks a lot! take one for me.
Digging up an old thread with more info. I bought one of these recently (bit more than OP paid for his, shipped from the UK and only with the mouse).
Did some reverse engineering of the mouse and the CPC box. Diagrams attached.
1. The mouse itself using the 20 pin port was for the BBC Micro interface. There are IR receivers (adjustable) in the mouse which go through a 74HC14 buffer to the output plug (one wire for each direction, plus one wire for each switch via 3.3K pulldown to ground)
Interestingly enough this CPC box I found on UK ebay was a lot cheaper than the BBC version :o
2. The CPC conversion box looking a bit more handmade contains...
CD4047BE multi-vibrator connects its trigger from CPC COMMON to latch resets on two CD4013 flip flops. The flip flops take the up, down, left, right inputs and clock these signals.
COMMON from the CPC port is also used to triggering a 74LS244 tristate buffer update for the buttons (X,Y,Z) and outputs from the flip flops, so it is timed with the keyboard scan cycle.
That is about it. I've got a Amiga => CPC adaptor (plus the buffer board) from ikonsgr a while ago, and used my existing Amiga adaptor with this. It works okay, but the up/down are a bit sensitive. I need to update the PIC for that
https://retroworkbench.blogspot.com/p/usb-mouse-adapter-for-amigaatari-st.html (https://retroworkbench.blogspot.com/p/usb-mouse-adapter-for-amigaatari-st.html)
This mouse seems to move quite smoothly in the AMX software and Symbos, but if you drag LEFT/RIGHT too quick it will go the opposite direction (!) probably something to do with exceeding the keyboard scan rate and how the flip flops work
The other thing I noticed is we have to use the CPC power connector (due to needing a shared ground). I was using external only power and since there was no actual ground via the joystick port, the movement was intermittent. This was not the case for other mice which definitely need external power due to the current usage of the parts and the MS mouse itself.
I'm keen to build this one, but would like just to get gerbers (or a premade PCB) to avoid stuffing around with making PCBs by hand
https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/PS2Mouse#Using_The_Mouse_Adapter (https://www.cpcwiki.eu/index.php/PS2Mouse#Using_The_Mouse_Adapter)
Super interesting!